There is surely a big fight coming for us right now.

[Joe for Clark]

Maybe in a few weeks. October, maybe - maybe a little sooner.

Whole Brigades are being accumulated to move on Baghdad now. And they know it - insurrgents, know it. Maybe you should, too.

I am pretty sure, it is coming.

A hell of of a fight is coming for those kids.

Joe

[knowbody0]

1. so the goal is to secure Baghdad

mayhaps declare it an independent nation and go home?

[spanone]

25. Didn't we secure Baghdad 3 years ago?

:sarcasm:

[knowbody0]

27. mayhaps now we will be making them "socially secure"

[Joe for Clark]

41. I missed that -

That is funny - in a sarcastic way.

Joe

[klook]

46. Are there any flowers left

for them to throw at our troops?

[Posteritatis]

73. No, we insecured it. (nt)

[roamer65]

2. Yes, when Iran and Syria

decide to enter the conflict with Israel over Lebanon, then the Iraqi insurgents will attack to tie down the US forces in Iraq.

[Pavulon]

5. And then the US will

begin using air support, massive death would result.

The level of violence used by us would go up in orders of magnitude.

[Virginia Dare]

13. That's a scary thought....

I've been thinking for a long time that the U.S., and now Israel are falling down a long dark tunnel right into a terrible trap. We have nobody but ourselves to blame. God this is disastrous, and the monsters in charge have no humanity whatsoever. :cry:

[Joe for Clark]

23. I think the scariest thing is they think they do know.

I know we are positioning for the fight.

Joe

[uppityperson]

3. Indeed, very sad for them

Went to Normandy a couple yrs ago, toured the German soldier cemetary there (La Cambe), was amazed at it. Very sad and somber, quite a thing for an invaded country to have, cemetary for its invaders. Birth and death dates were on the stones, many many 17-24 yr olds who died for a stupid reason. Most didn't want to be there, didn't know why they were there, and they died. Here we are in Iraq, our young men and women, the same thing.

[flyarm]

10. I HAVE BEEN THERE MANY TIMES..and yes it is sobering..

i have stood in the german gun bunkers ..and looked out at the ocean with beautiful sunsets..and wondered..how could such a beautiful place be such a mass grave?

so much lost humanity..

my uncle landed on Omaha Beach..and he ended up in a insane assylum for several years...

my father in law landed in
Sherberg ..and i have asked him how frightened he was..he said they just refused to think..but he said in a fox hole (since he was from calif and not used to the cold)..one other soldier kept his feet warm..because he got frost bite to his toes..he said the guy was dead two days later..and he often talked of that soldier..and tears would always well up in his eyes...
i was a flight attendant and offered many times through 30 years to take him back..he said he never wanted to see it again..he said he couldn't..he just couldn't...

the last time i was in Normandy and went to the museaum..a bus load of Germans came ..and all the French workers kissed my friend and I over and over in front of the Germans ..like trying to prove something to the germans..the French workers were not warm or friendly to the Germans...but they couldn't be kinder to us..

i have often stood by the graves and wondered..what could these young people have accomplished in life?

and why must we look at them only through crosses..never a face..never a family member...

it is a beautiful place..but such a sad sad place for humanity.

fly

[uppityperson]

14. Thank your father-in-law and uncle if still alive

I took flowers to another DUer's uncle in Colville Sur Mer. In-laws livw in a house with schrapnel in the shutters, work in Cherbourg, greatly appreciate them. I probably have relatives in la Combe also, do not know for sure since do not know all my distant relative's last names. It is sad and here go again.

[Joe for Clark]

22. Beautiful post.

Cherborg was a terrifying place. They were all terrifying.

Sad is the right word.

Joe

[flyarm]

55. i have taken my son there numerous times while he was growing up

we always walk the beach ..from when he was 8 yrs old till just last year when he was 27 yrs old..and we always collect stones on the beach and make a cross..

and i have told my son since a little guy..those crosses were young men..young men taken before they ever lived life...all because of evil men..men who valued power over life..

the two of us always cry and hug each other..it used to be me with my arm over his shoulder..now it is he with his arm over my shoulder..and every time we have gone we have seen something new..

but we feel something old..

last year when we were there and we walked down the steps to the beach..my son cried horribly..

and he said..i wonder if they will have a place like this one day in Iraq...

it broke my heart..

i said ..i don't know..but what i do know ..it will never be this beautiful..but in a very cruel way... it will be just as ugly.

funny but when my son was young and we went to Normandy and the Beaches..it never meant so much..but now as my son is a young man..it meant everything to see his grown reaction...

when we went to the German gun bunkers last year....he said..I hate Germans mom...

and i said ..no, do not hate..thats what brought those crosses here ..across that ocean..to this resting place, so far from their home...

i used to not believe this..but today i do..i do not think we should have a president who never served in our armed services..and no i di not mean a coward like *..i mean a real soldier.

Then maybe , just maybe..they would think long and hard about sending others children to fight ..and die or be maimed ..yes i believe they would think damned hard about it..and then perhaps it would be a last option...a very last option!

it should be nothing less!



fly

and thanks for correcting my spelling of Cherborg!!..i forgot how to spell it!!

and i don't know how i forgot because i always got pictures and maps and history brochures for my Father in law!!

thats how we got him to tell us stories..

and no... he passed a couple years ago..

[Joe for Clark]

67. That is beautiful.

Don't feel bad about spelling - I am terrible.

Thanks for the post - I don't know why, but it makes me feel better for some reason.

Joe

[femrap]

44. Thank you for sharing your stories....

Europeans have seen war upclose....they know. So many of these pugs and fundies have NO idea the destruction and terror that war brings.

Why this 'need' to control more and more people? Why this 'need' for power?

I think it's psychotic.

[Minstrel Boy]

51. wow.

just wow. thanks.

[RagAss]

4. Why? Are they electing a new Mayor of the fucking GreenZone ?

[Joe for Clark]

6. No, man -

It is coming. The 172nd and the brigade that was defending Mosul have been "detoured" there.
And they were supposed to go home now. So most of the 2nd division is concentrating there.

And they are sure not there to play games.

It is coming, I am pretty sure.

Joe

[RagAss]

9. Could be....you think it will get any news coverage ???

Seriously, you'd never know we were in Iraq based on the last 2 weeks of MSM news....

[Joe for Clark]

12. That is true.

You had to look for it, or be in a position where you needed to.

I have a boy in that division - I LOOK.

SO - two of the three bigades of the 2nd are being put in place to attack there. And they will attack - they are not defensive deployments - I am sure others are too. I am kind of partial to my kids unit. I have seen them face to face - they are all just little kids.

This whole thing makes me sick to my stomache.

Joe

[PA Democrat]

15. I hope your son is home safe soon, Joe.

:hug:

[Joe for Clark]

17. I appreciate that.

We got to talk to him on Sunday for an hour.

I don't think hes coming home this time. This is his third time. How many times does he have to get ambushed to come home. How many tours do you survive, exactly??

We got to say we love you.

My brother in law just got back, you know, from there. It ain't going any too well. There are a lot things he said I will never repeat - But they are not good.

By the way, I was born in Pennsylvania - I am a PA democrat too!!!

Joe

[Postman]

19. "things he said you'll never repeat"... then why tease us by mentioning it

more US atrocities? Wouldn't surprise me.

[Joe for Clark]

21. I did not say atrocities -

And I didn't mean to tease anybody.

You know, there are worse things than that.

And if you didn't grow up around it, I can guarantee you it would surprise you.

Still shocks me.

F-ing army - that is just true.

Joe

[Postman]

24. didn't mean to put words in your mouth...

but what do you mean by -- there are worse things than that...worse things than atrocities?

please explain.

[Joe for Clark]

29. Look,

Maybe he also doesn't think much of the Iraqis either- this is a maybe thing - OK??

But maybe sometimes some elements of our military turn against some other elements of our services - maybe, you see??

SO maybe, some counter intelligence units did some shit to our other arms of service, maybe.

Postman, I really can't do more than say that - I wish I could.

Dad would, Mom would - I think others in my family with a rank would too.

I do not rank - best I can do.

Joe

There is a big fight coming though, bet on it!

[Postman]

61. If I read you correctly.....

There could accidental killings of blue on blue forces and there could have been intentional killings..

I have to wonder if it has been the policy to carry out "terrorist" attacks by US counter-intelligence personnel to justify staying in Iraq (because of the rampant "terrorism") and the possible/ongoing Civil War (being created by US counter-intelligence personnel?)

[Joe for Clark]

68. No - I didn't say that..

I am saying - maybe some units there would screw other people to look a little better?
They don't shoot at each other - it is more incidious. And I think dangerous for us in the end.

Joe

[NuttyFluffers]

58. your boy will come back, believe it.

that's the most important thing you can give him at this time: the certainty of faith about his safe return. the next is involvement is civics to undo this mess and bring 'em all home.

:hug:

[Joe for Clark]

72. Its that three times a charm thing-

Thank you for saying that - I wished I believed it.

Joe

[flyarm]

56. i will keep your son Joe in my daily prayers..

and i will also pray for you ( and no i am not real religious..but i save my prayers for only special people ) ..i will pray for you, that you get your son home safely!

god bless your son..keep him safe!

fly

[Joe for Clark]

71. Thank you.

Joe

[rzemanfl]

7. It could be like Stalingrad. The supply lines for the troops are

privatized and the convoys are very vulnerable. There was an article in the Christian Science Monitor about this a week or so ago. I will try to find the link and see if it still works.

On edit: here's the link, still works

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0721/p09s01-coop.html

[Joe for Clark]

8. I saw it - I think there is a vulnerability for our guys, too.

It is a question of where the soft points are. Does this army know them??

I don't quite trust the army to get it right. Not with my kids life on the line.

Joe

[rzemanfl]

11. My thinking is that when it happens, it will happen in connection

with bad flying weather of some sort. Scary.

[Joe for Clark]

16. I swear - we better at least be able to get that right.

Altho, it is the army we are talking about here - and they sure don't get too much right.

It is all scary right now.

Joe

[RagAss]

33. I've got lots of respect for our people there......I just don't think

there will ever be another Stalingrad....

[Joe for Clark]

36. We can get sent into a fight we can't win -

thats the F-ing army for you.

Not Stalingrad really, but no 5,000 soldiers ever assembled can do that job -

But this assh*le is seeking the fight out anyway -

All political.

With our childrens lives.

It is coming, make no mistake.

Joe

[RagAss]

38. I believe you... it's so sick... what is to be gained ?..idiots in charge

[Joe for Clark]

40. Sick is the right word.

We better have somebody that knows better.

Knows better than to trust the pentagon at all.

Joe

[rucky]

18. What's the objective? n/t

[Joe for Clark]

20. W has to take that capital. If he fails - he really fails.

He knows it.

The objective is Baghdad - it always was. And we are positioned to fight this fight - such as it is.

Joe

[Postman]

26. Baghdad, Ramadi, Fallujah...

He's on a roll of successes, ain't he?

What does defeat look like?

[Joe for Clark]

30. Roll of sucesses - that is funny.

What does defeat look like - I think we are looking at it now.

If defeat means getting out of their now, I think we will be ok.

If defeat means going months further and then putting our tail between our legs - the consequences I think are not reversible.

The best day to admit a mistake is the first day, it gets a little less attractive each succesive day.

Make no mistake - W has to take Baghdad. He has to. He knows it.

Joe

[Postman]

34. They barely control the "Green Zone"...

He'll never "take" Baghdad.

You can't defeat an idea in people's heads.

They lost this war/occupation a long time ago. All they will be doing is killing more innocent people. Creating more hatred. Creating more insurgents.

Ever seen the movie..."Battle of Algiers" ?

It's over.

[Joe for Clark]

35. Thats right,

More than right.

We are screwed.

Joe

[madokie]

28. like TET of '68

[Joe for Clark]

31. I pray it is not so,

But yeah, I think so too

Joe

[madokie]

37. I am afraid our kids haven't seen anything like they are going to see, yet

take into account the sand storms and how the air power will be ineffective and you have the makings for a blood bath

[Joe for Clark]

39. I agree.

I have thought for some time - the country (and I mean the GOP) has seemed to think the technology could replace manpower. They spend so much money on systems and so little for those GIs.

It was the opposite in the second WW.

Then, FDR protected those soldiers first. Not since then though.

There are examples - We'd land tanks on islands to go up against Japan. What they'd do - They'd charge our tanks from a hundred directions at once - cause they knew, we could kill 90 guys charging at once, sometimes with nothing more than stones - but we couldn't get a hundred - not all at once.

SO those last ten could overwhelm those guys if they charged all at once - and they did it.

SO now we find ourselves with 130,000 guys with good technology. What happens, especially in cut-up units ,facing 10 times their number in obscure fights. At what point does raw manpower over take technology exactly?? There is clearly a point where that happens.

Yes, I think this late summer and particularly the early fall could be very bad for our kids.

Joe

[flyarm]

63. oh godddd..how do we stop this madness and this madman in our white house?

please tell me someone ..how do we stop this fucker in our white house and his cabal?????????

how many have to die????????

how many have to be maimed????????

how do we stop the madness???????

fly

[scarletwoman]

32. k & r -- I can't believe no one else has voted for this thread!

There's more storms coming.

Thanks, Joe for Clark, for the warning.

sw

[babydollhead]

42. kick

[Joe for Clark]

43. I think your kick is in the wrong place.

Thanks anyway.

I think the saddest thing is - why don't we see this coming??

Really it is pretty clear. Something is breaking, beneath our feet.

Why isn't anyone else asking questions??

This whole thing is really, really sad.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

45. Thanks,

I just wanted to say I really like your "signature"

It is really neat!!

Joe

[Warren DeMontague]

47. "Mission un-complished!"

Well past time to bring those kids home.

[Joe for Clark]

48. Sure is.

Why are we still there? - This is like a Twilight Zone episode - I swear to god.

Joe

[Warren DeMontague]

50. That's all right. I'm sure we'll have another nice trophy to show for it

...some day.

[Joe for Clark]

52. That is what I am most afraid of.

[graywarrior]

49. Thanks for posting, Joe.

[Joe for Clark]

53. I have read your posts with great interest Graywarrior.

Please keep posting.

And thank YOU!!

Joe

[graywarrior]

59. You would make a great diplomat.

[Joe for Clark]

69. You are clearly a nice person.

I don't think I would - not about this war anyway.

Joe

[Joe for Clark]

54. I wanted to say - those are good kids.

I looked into many of their eyes - and I know,

They really were good kids - at least before we sent them there they were.

They need to come home, where they belong.

Joe

[flyarm]

65. a good friend of mines son went to Iraq..before he left my friend and her

husband were pro war ..pro little lord pissy pants..and they did not want me discussing with them the lies of pissy pants..and i respected that..they were making the ultimate sacrifice..their son..

when their son came home..before redeploying..their attitude has changed 360 degrees..now my friend has nothing but awful things to say about this war and pissy pants..i mean it is such a dramatic change..

and she has said to my numerous times..why didn't i listen to you??

how could i have been so blind...

we need to reach out to these people..and never judge them..they were and did and have made a sacrifice no parent should ever have to make..as have their kids..with the best of intentions..they were lied to..and many are coming to those realities now..

we must reach out to them..

fly

[Joe for Clark]

70. Thats right -

We have to reach out to those kids.

They did an honorable thing. They found out too late, just what a-holes the army really is (not just our army - all of them).

Sometimes the cause is so important it overshadows the crap you have to take in the service - rarely - most of the time it doesn't. In no way does it make it less idealistic for those kids to go and fight for our country.

Anyway, those are good kids - and they sure don't deserve this crud. And they are going to pay a deep price. They sure found out the hard way where fantasy ends and reality starts. And it is going to seriously hurt a generation.

I cannot put into words just how wrong I think this whole war is - not enough words for that.

Nice post,

Joe

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. Iran? Is that what you mean?

:scared:

[dave123williams]

60. Of course; there's an election in November - they have to turn it up now!

[flyarm]

62. thank you Joe for all you have done ..but most of all

for your sacrifice..and each day i pray for your son!!

and for your family...

these are the hardest times for parents and family of kids who are in the line of fire..

thank you Joe for keeping us informed, as you do..

i salute you sir!!:patriot:

and i salute your son!!:patriot:

fly

[mmonk]

64. Thanks for sharing Joe.

For those of us who know or have someone in harm's way, we appreciate the heads up.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

66. Still holding hope that somehow the goons will be removed

from power soon.

The sooner the better.



Our thoughts are with you Joe.