So you say you have had it with domestic eavesdropping. . .

[ewoden]

Well I've got an idea. A little apolitical back atcha kind of message to the Evil Empire. All leagal you understand.

Supposedly, the NSA has all this technology that can surveil the phone and e-mail traffice throughout the country. also supposedly, they have the ability to search that traffic for selected key words phrases. Well what would happen, if on a predetermined day for a few predetermined hours, all of DU, and all the tens of thousands of your fiends and family and other associated folks who are fed up with the application of such surveilance technology just suddenly started pinging the system. I mean call your Mom, your brother, the butcher, your girlfriend, etc. While on the line just start randomly repeating words like bomb, president, attack, revenge, microbe, you get the picture.

Such monkeywrenching activity would soon wrender surveilence an ineffectual tool.

[Newsjock]

1. I've been doing that for years

... and no knock at the door yet. Then again, my name is on the no-fly list, my dad (who shares my name and got interrogated) informs me.

[ewoden]

2. It would really send a message if it were made public that

this was a large scale planned protest to the illegal activity. Might even make the news.

[Carni]

19. Same here...I don't think they can find their heads from their asses

If anything I think they just spew this bullshit out there to see if people will stop looking and even if they are serious they are so inept that they will screw up at some point.

[Amonester]

3. From what I've seen, it already is an ineffectual tool.

And if that's still not enough, I wonder what this one's up too:

http://www.tscm.com/
Founded in 1987 and located near Boston Massachusetts, ..., is the internationally recognized leader in the field of Technical Surveillance Counter Measures (TSCM), Bug Sweeps, Wiretap Detection, Surveillance Technology, Communications Security (COMSEC), Counter-Intelligence, Technical Security, and Spy Hunting. Granite Island Group provides expert technical, analytical and research capability for the detection, nullification, and isolation of eavesdropping devices, technical surveillance penetrations, technical surveillance hazards, and physical security weaknesses... Simply put, we hunt spies, stop espionage, and plug leaks.

...

( In the "Warning Signs of Covert Eavesdropping or Bugging" linked page: )

# Spouses bug each other on a regular basis
# Parents bug children
# Businessmen bug other businessmen
# Scientists bug other scientists
# Students bug professors
# Attorneys bug other attorneys (and their clients)
# Insurance companies bug accident victims, and other claimants
# Construction companies bug other construction companies
# Salesmen bug clients
# Collection agencies bug debtors
# Police officers bug suspects
# Executive recruiters bug personnel directors
# Rock fans bug rock musicians
# Department stores bug customers and merchandise

They should add the latest:
# The Executive Branch bugs political opponents :grr:

Anyway, your idea's worth a good try! :thumbsup:

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

4. End result...

"Such monkeywrenching activity would soon wrender surveilence an ineffectual tool."


Suppose we did do that--and it was wildly successful...

Then suppose some real terrorists launched an attack on us that otherwise could have been thwarted--how would you feel?

Still think it's a good idea?

[EFerrari]

5. NSA started this program before 9/11. Did it make any difference?

I like my solution. Two or three times a day I just call out the NSA for being losers and traitors to the Constitution. Sometimes I throw in, "and your fake cowboy idiot boss, too."

:)

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

7. You didn't answer my question...

Suppose everyone did what you asked--and then a real terrorist attack happened that otherwise could have been thwarted?

[EFerrari]

8. You are addressing the wrong poster.

And I did answer it, actually.

This program has proven to be INEFFECTUAL in delivering data that prevents terrorist attacks. Witness, 9/11.

And you may have noticed that Bush has gotten more people dead than bin Laden possibly could even if he worked at it for the rest of his life.

Does that answer your question?

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

11. No, it doesn't.

That's cool though...

[ewoden]

14. So by asking your question Kinder Gentler

Are you suggesting that listening in on your private conversations, and reading your private e-mails, is fine as long as it thwarts terrorism?

Well my answer is, I didn't realize the 4th ammendment was sold so cheaply.

Your ilk talk a good line, but it realy does seem that you are more than ready to sacrifice your liberties for the illusion of a little security. So sad.

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

16. Dry your eyes...

Nothing I've written is 'sad'. What I wrote is simple common sense and practicality. If we expect the government to take care of our safety in the larger areas of mass transit, shipping etc. then we just aren't going to have all the liberty in the world. If we want to have more liberty--and take care of our own safety--then we are free to move elsewhere and do so.

If you want to stay here and have all the liberty in the world (thus taking care of your own safety) then start petitioning the government to stop guarding planes, stop searching luggage, take down sky-spy cameras in public places--and, if we do get bombed or some such, tell the gov. and your surviving family not to expect any payoffs for your losses.

It's really pretty simple--and yes, we do have the right to choose one of the above--or create a realistic solution on our own. Now THAT'S real freedom!

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

17. Let me ask YOU:

"Are you suggesting that listening in on your private conversations, and reading your private e-mails, is fine as long as it thwarts terrorism?"


Of the 3000 or so that are dead as a result of 9/11, line up their photos on your table--in neat rows, yes--and choose 3 whose lives you would trade for the opportunity to send the emails you've sent today unread by anyone else, ever. Now, put 3000 pics of your friends, family and loved ones on that same table and choose which 3 lives you would take for the right to text message to your pal in school to pass the time, unread by anyone else...

Keep in mind that the first 3 out of 3000 were SOMEBODY'S brother, sister, mom, dad, cousin, friend, employee too.

[ewoden]

18. Well I don't have to pretend at all..about a list of faces and names

My son is in Iraq as we speak. No I would not choose to risk his life, not the lives of his comrades for the inalienable rights we enjoy. But they have.

And no I would not have traded my fellow Marines who fell under the sweep of mortar and machine gun for the security and freedon we have today. But they did.

You see life at the sharpe end of the spear tends to put security, safety, and freedom into a bit of a diferent set of equations. And yes I would gladly place myself in harms way again, just to secure your e-mail freedom to bitch and moan at me about making all of you less safe for wanting to secure American rights.

On this we will agree to disagree, for that I traded an eye and a left foot.

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

9. Realistically...

"NSA started this program before 9/11. Did it make any difference?"


Few things work 100 times out of 100. Would you stop locking your car because it failed to stop someone from breaking into it? Or would you disband the police in your neighborhood because they failed to stop all crime?


Nothing we did stopped 9/11--but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop trying to prevent another one. Much of what we complain about here is the lousy intelligence that helped get us into Iraq in the first place (among other things). It seems only smart to try and gather more accurate info. Since I doubt the Mohammad Attas of the world are going to volunteer a transcript of their overseas phone calls, we might well have to gain that information by other means.

[EFerrari]

10. Actually, what we complain about here isn't bad intelligence.

It's cooked intelligence.

The intelligence community has been taking the bogus rap for a war we all know this Cabal was going to have no matter what.

On the other hand, we can't be too careful with those terrorist Quakers and peace moms and demonstrating grandmas. :eyes:

[sendero]

12. Within the confines of the law...

.. and the constitution, that would be fine.

But I have no patience and even less respect for fools who don't understand why the founding fathers refused to give the government this kind of power.

[Berserker]

20. Nothing we did stopped 9/11-????

No it's what we did not fucking do. How about the terror monkey not paying attention to his PDBs? We didn't have a fucking thing to do with it.
lousy intelligence?? How about fucking LIES I think maybe you should read a little more. I see you think this surveillance is a good thing. I could go on but I see where you are coming from.

[aKinderGentlerDUer]

22. "I see where you are coming from"

Actually, you don't. I don't like the new surveillance--thanks for asking. However, I dislike Americans getting killed by acts of terrorism even more--and I think, along with all the other crap that went on about Iraq, we DID have some lousy intelligence, too. Thus, I see a need for better info--and that's usually not handed over voluntarily.

This is not a perfect world, but I have lived long enough to know that, even on the best days, I/we will not get every single thing that I/we want. Satisfaction comes in percentages and majorities and approximations.

There is a category of 'good enough'--NOT 'perfect'. And, no, I don't like the government intruding upon our lives, but I will do ANYTHING to keep from having people throw themselves off a 100+ story office buildings again--or worse. That's a sacrifice I can make--it's little enough.

[Protagoras]

23. suppose we give up our rights

suppose we let fascists strip away our basic privacy rights.

Then the terrorists have destroyed this country regardless of whether or not they have bombs.

It's time for us to say NO and ENOUGH as a nation.

One way or another it's got to stop.

Founding fathers were both clear and right about not giving up liberties...even if it means death. Sometimes you have to stand for something besides living in a fearful hole.

I'll stand up for privacy and free speech and I won't back down. Sorry if that terrifies you.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ewoden]

15. thanks moom, er mom

[Vinca]

13. I was thinking we should all send emails to Hugo Chavez

thanking him for the oil. (Good morning, NSA spies. I haven't contacted anyone outside the country yet today, but I may be emailing Japan. Don't bother to pick up unless you're interested in vintage costume jewelry. Kisses, Vinca.)

[High Plains]

21. I've had it with domestic eavesdropping.