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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 01:58 AM
Original message
A strategy for Senator Byrd
I'm seeing/hearing/reading that our side is being asked to implore Senator Byrd to vote against/support a filibuster against Sammy "The Slime" Alito.

With that in mind, I might suggest that my fellow (and sister) DU'ers take into account that Senator Byrd gives not a tinkers dam about "choice." It won't play for him. He is surrounded here in West Virginia by Democrats who HATE abortion, and tell him so every 7.92749 seconds.

He's not much concerned with criminal procedure. If some little 10 year old got felt up by a lady cop on a bogus warrant during a meth raid, it's not his concern.

In a word, beyond God, his beloved Erma, and the State of West Virginia, God bless him, Senator Byrd cares for one thing above all others: The Senate of the United States of America, a Republic Established Upon Democratic Principles.

If we would turn Senator Byrd away from Judge Alito, we must do so by making it abundantly clear to him that Sammy Alito is the worst thing to happen to the Senate since Caligula made a horse a member of the Roman Senate. And perhaps worse. It's entirely possible that Alito could be the final lyncpin in making a horse's ass the Lord and Master of the United States Senate in the form of George W. Bush.

If, in the course of your phone call to Senator Byrd's office, you could use a little Latin and ask the person on the other end to write down that Latin, it would go a long way.

May I suggest "Alito delenda est."

At the risk of whatever disagreement with which I may meet, I offer these suggestions because Senator Byrd, by virtue of his tenure and his oft-cited devotion to the body, should he choose to vote against cloture on the floor debate (the effective definition of "filibuster") he may take some along with him; for the Senate, no matter how apparently subservient, no matter how filled with those that Paul described as "lukewarm" (or was it Jesus), can occasionally still rear on its hind legs and remember its former greatness.

That desire to remain relevant will resonate with far more senators than a plea about a woman's body.

God, how I wish it was not so. But it is. Every senator will take some calculated political risks. But no senator wishes to jeopardize that body to which he/she feels more allegiance than unto their own mother.

Senator Byrd should be reminded that history has a way of dealing harshly with those who appease, those who concede, those who fail when Destiny says "You must."
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
1.  um
since Alito is male shouldn't it be Alito delendum est?

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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Isn't "um" neuter (and adjectival/noun)?
Delenda is a verb form, not a modifier.

The original quote is "Cathago delenda est." The "o" ending tells me that the noun for Carthage was likely masculine, as well.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. see, I know just enough to be dangerous...
:P

I'm asking because I saw this... I thought I understood, but perhaps not. :)

...but I am having a lot of trouble accepting the idea that the gender of the noun doesn't matter in passive periphrastics. The default should not be the feminine.
The immediate cause of my aggravation is a new "delenda est" at Pacificus Inclined to Peace blog.
P. Gainsford has kindly written to confirm what I thought, which is that "Islam" should be treated as a neuter noun, so the passive periphrastic that would go with it (and without getting into the absurdity of this or any of the other propositions) is delendum est.
Passive Periphrastics

In his Laudator Temporis Acti, Michael Gilleland blogs references legitimating our use of the famous passive periphrastic ("Carthago delenda est") of Cato who thought that "Carthage must be destroyed." Gilleland says further that "Unio Europaea delenda est" (the E.U. must be destroyed -- to save Europe) is also fine and a good effort at applying the rules about the gerundive and the "to be" verb.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/b/a/129595.htm


So obviously I need to go read up on "Carthago delenda est"
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Nah
The whole point is that "delenda est" will resonate with Senator Byrd. He's already forgotten more Latin than you and I will ever collectively learn, periphrastic or paraplegic.

"Cathago delenda est" were the words of Cato the elder, who said those words so often that people stopped inviting him to parties.

Those words were drilled into the heads of the Latin students of Byrd's era. It will rattle around in his skull like gravel in a front wheel.

It will stir fond memories of devotion to the Republic.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Wow! You guys are debating Latin! I'm totally bonkers and impressed!
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. To get Byrd's vote, you need to help him see that
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 02:21 AM by Sydnie
Alito threatens the Senate as a whole. With blivet** and his signing statements, Alito will effectively give him support in his position that he can ignore the will of the House and Senate and ignore duly voted and signed legislation. He will be stripping the Congress of their power to not only create legislation but to enforce oversight of those that are to comply with those bills.

That will get his attention. And, quite possibly, his endorsement.

edit - sp
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You said in far fewer words
what I was attempting.

Yes.

That.
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Damn, mark this day on your calendar
My friends tell me I can't say anything in 500 words or less! :rofl:

Glad to be of assistance. :hi:
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Compared to my blather
you wrote a freakin' haiku!

:spray:

But I think the message is valid. Do you?
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Sydnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I do indeed n/t
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gkhouston Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #8
27. Yes. Executive powers is the issue that has the potential
to waken the Senate, much more so than abortion, IMO. Their power is in jeopardy, if they have the wit and the will to acknowledge it. I haven't noticed that Senator Byrd is shy of either.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
10. Quotes from Sen. Byrd, about the Senate & about Rice for SoS:
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 02:53 AM by Wordie
Sen. Byrd
"When the North wrestled the South for the soul of this nation in the 19th century, America stood at a crossroads. Then as now, transcendent and solid leadership is essential to our ultimate success."

"As long as there is a forum in which questions can be asked by men and women who do not stand in awe of a chief executive and one can speak as long as one's feet will allow one to stand, the liberties of the American people will be secure."

"The Senate is larger than the sum total of its 100 members. When the duly elected Representatives of the people gather in the Senate chamber, they become much more than the combined intellects, talents, and idiosyncracies of 100 individuals. They become the living, breathing manifestation of the vision of the Framers -- the guardians of the spirit and the soul of the sovereign people of this nation."


These were from his website, here: http://byrd.senate.gov/

In regard to his vote against Condoleeza Rice for SoS, the following statements were made:
The Constitution, in Article Two, Section Two, states that the President "shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States..." Recognizing that the Senate's role of advice and consent is one of the few legislative powers explicitly cited in the Constitution, Senator Byrd believes that it is a power that Senators of both parties must rigorously protect. It is not a ceremonial exercise.

With regard to this nomination, Senator Byrd has been particularly concerned about Dr. Rice's role in crafting the Bush doctrine of preemption, or the first-strike war. No one denies that the President has the inherent authority to repel attacks against our country, but Senator Byrd believes that the doctrine of first-strike war against another country which does not pose an imminent threat to the United States is unconstitutional.

In Federalist Number 76, Alexander Hamilton wrote:

"It will readily be comprehended, that a man who had himself the sole disposition of offices, would be governed much more by his private inclinations and interests, than when he was bound to submit the propriety of his choice to the discussion and determination of a different and independent body, and that body an entire branch of the legislature. The possibility of rejection would be a strong motive to care in proposing."

Although Hamilton explains the importance of the role of the Senate in the appointment of officers of the United States, neither he, nor the Constitution, is specific about what criteria Senators must use to judge the qualifications of a nominee. The Constitution only requires that the Senate give its advice and consent. It is therefore left to Senators to use their own judgment in considering their vote. The factors involved in such judgments may vary among Senators, among nominees, and may even change in response to the needs of the times.

(He then highly praises Rice's qualifications, education and background.)

...The vote that the Senate will conduct tomorrow, however, is not simply a formality to approve of a nominee's educational achievement or level of expertise. I do not subscribe to the notion that the Senate must confirm a President's nominees, barring criminality or lack of experience. The Constitution enjoins Senators to use their judgment in considering nominations.

I have stood on this Senate floor more times than I can count to defend the prerogatives of this institution and the separate but equal – with emphasis on the word "equal" – powers of the three branches of government. A unique power of the Legislative Branch is the Senate's role in providing advice and consent on the matter of nominations. That power is not vested in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee or any other committee; nor does it repose in a handful of Senate leaders. It is not a function of pomp and circumstance, and it was never intended by the Framers to be used to burnish the image of a President on inauguration day.

And yet that is exactly what Senators were being pressured to do last week – to acquiesce mutely to the nomination of one of the most important members of the President's Cabinet without the merest hiccup of debate or the smallest inconvenience of a roll call vote.

...This doctrine of preemptive strikes places the sole decision of war and peace in the hands of the President and undermines the Constitutional power of Congress to declare war. The Founding Fathers required that such an important issue of war be debated by the elected representatives of the people in the Legislative Branch precisely because no single man could be trusted with such an awesome power as bringing a nation to war by his decision alone. And yet, that it exactly what the National Security Strategy proposes.

Not only does this pernicious doctrine of preemptive war contradict the Constitution, it barely acknowledges its existence. The National Security Strategy makes only one passing reference to the Constitution: it states that "America's constitution" -- that is "constitution" with a small C -- "has served us well." As if the Constitution does not still serve this country well! One might ask if that reference to the Constitution was intended to be a compliment or an obituary?

...We can all agree that the President, any President, has the inherent duty and power to repel an attack on the United States. But where in the Constitution can the President claim the right to strike at another nation before it has even threatened our country, as Dr. Rice asserted in that speech? To put it plainly, Dr. Rice has asserted that the President holds far more of the war power than the Constitution grants him.

...Accountability has become an old-fashioned notion in some circles these days, but accountability is not a negotiable commodity when it comes to the highest circles of our nation's government. The accountability of government officials is an obligation, not a luxury. And yet, accountability is an obligation that this President and his administration appear loath to fulfill.

Although I do not question her credentials, I do oppose many of the critical decisions that Dr. Rice has made during her four years as National Security Advisor. She has a record, and the record is there for us to judge. There remain too many unanswered questions about Dr. Rice's failure to protect our country before the tragic attacks of September 11, her public efforts to politicize intelligence, and her often stated allegiance to the doctrine of preemption.

To confirm Dr. Rice to be the next Secretary of State is to say to the American people, and the world, that the answers to those questions are no longer important. Her confirmation will most certainly be viewed as another endorsement of the Administration's unconstitutional doctrine of preemptive war, its bullying policies of unilateralism, and its callous rejection of our long-standing allies.

The stakes for the United States are too high. I cannot endorse higher responsibilities for those who helped set our great country down the path of increasing isolation, enmity in the world, and a war that has no end. For these reasons, I shall cast my vote in opposition to the confirmation of Condoleezza Rice to be the next Secretary of State.


###

Whew. I posted a lot of text there, and I hope nobody minds, but this speech really seems to me to provide some great insight into how Senator Byrd thinks. And I think, given his comments, that he could be convinced to vote against Alito. It seems an approach focusing on whether Alito would favor the executive branch over that of the legislative might be convincing to him. And Alito, after all, was the guy who came up with the idea of the "signing statement," a usurpation of legislative powers if there ever was one.

I might also add that its clear from this speech that Senator Byrd is really an amazing speaker and a great statesman. I recommend reading the entire thing - I've left a lot out that's really impressive.

The Republicans have identified Byrd as "Undecided, Key Vote" and also say this: Call now at 202-224-3954. Tell Senator Robert C. Byrd to stand with Alito, not Ted Kennedy and far-left attack groups.
http://www.gop.com/DemocratsonAlito/state.asp?s=WV

(Sorry about the Republican link, don't think I've gone over to the dark side. It was pointed out to me by another poster (tritsofme - who we should all thank for this great find) that the Republicans have created that site and identified where all the Dems stand on the vote (there's a big map and you click on the state). It really does seem a good place to get info on who we should be contacting too. Here it is: http://www.gop.com/DemocratsonAlito/ )
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I understand
Like I said, Byrd is hammered second-by-second by the anti-woman brigade. He knows how they feel.

What he may not know, however, is that there are those of us out there who cherish the Republic.

Hence "Alito delenda est." It *will* strike a chord with him.

Nothing but the Executive's assault on the Legislative will move him in the face of the religious pressures with which he must, by definition, contend.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. That's exactly what I thought when I read that speech on his website.
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 03:12 AM by Wordie
It was if he was directly saying, "Here's how to convince me."

I suspect that all the Senators have similar material on their websites. ...material that will provide a clear picture of how best to approach them.
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:30 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. You're probably right
but very few have likely made it as plain as Byrd.

We have to appeal to that which matters to him. He can, as I noted, take a lot of Senators with him with a couple of well-timed addresses.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I'm going to write a good (I hope) letter to him tomorrow.
Maybe I'll post it in this thread to see if I could get a critique before sending it. Thanks for the info on Byrd!
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. By "write"
I hope you mean "e-mail." It takes longer to get a letter to a Senator in Washington now than it used to take by Overland Stage.

Let it fly!
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. OK, here's my "flying" letter. What do you think?
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 04:14 PM by Wordie
Dear Senator Byrd:

As a prominent leader among Senate Democrats, your voice is admired and respected because of your long congressional tenure, your willingness to stand up for what is right, and your deep love of our country. But you are an inspiration not just to Senate Democrats, but to all those who value our noble American institutions and valued rights, for which so many have sacrificed, and stand up to protect that document upon which they are based, our Constitution. Therefore, it is in light of your role as elder statesman of the Senate that I am writing to you about the Alito vote, although I am not, strictly speaking, a constituent.

If confirmed, Judge Samuel Alito, although possessed of stellar credentials and highly intelligent, would pose a serious threat to the balance of powers between the branches of our government, a balance that must be maintained at all costs. Judge Alito's answers in the recent confirmation hearings were unsatisfactory. Senator Feinstein asked Alito, "If we have explicit authority under the Constitution to pass a law, and we pass that law, is the president bound by that law?" And he replied, "The president, like everybody else, is bound by statutes that are enacted by Congress, unless the statutes are unconstitutional, because the Constitution takes precedence over a statute." At first glance, that seemed like an appropriate response. But when one thinks about it more carefully, there is a hidden danger lurking in his statement, because as a Supreme Court Justice, Alito himself would be the one determining the constitutionality of any such law.

There is much reason to presume that if confirmed, Alito would percieve the Constitution as allowing the president to assume greatly expanded powers. It was he, in his tenure with the Reagan White House, who wrote in support of the concept of the signing statement, which President Bush is now using to assume powers never granted to the executive by the Constitution. It is crucial that we determine how might a Supreme Court Justice Alito actually rule if a challenge to the constitutionality of the signing statement were to come before the Supreme Court? Nothing in his reply clearly and convincingly defined his views on the scope of the president's constitutional authority versus the the constitutional authority of Congress.

Although he did say things appearing to back away from support of the signing statements and the concept of the "unitary executive," can we trust him to keep his promise? After all, Alito previously pledged under oath that he would recuse himself from cases involving certain companies; he did not qualify the pledge in any way or even suggest that it was time-limited. Yet we know from the record that he did not keep his promise, despite his attempts to justify his actions in the hearings. How could such a nominee be confirmed with such grave questions remaining about his committment to maintaining the balance of powers the framers of our Constitution so wisely provided for our great nation?

Senator Byrd, you once wisely said this: "As long as there is a forum in which questions can be asked by men and women who do not stand in awe of a chief executive and one can speak as long as one's feet will allow one to stand, the liberties of the American people will be secure."

Judge Alito must not be confirmed. I ask you to vote against him, but more than that I ask you, as you have done so many times in the past, to stand up once again, and with passion and wisdom, lead the Senate in securing our valued liberties and traditions. Please vigorously support a fillibuster of Judge Alito's nomination.

Thank you for your consideration of my request, and for your many years of dedicated service to our country.

Sincerely,
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Dayum! That's a beauty,
and will speak to what matters to him.

Great!

:applause:
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Thanks...and you should post your strategy in DU Activist Corps
It will get additional notice there...and more letters to Byrd!

My letter will soon fly off to Senator Byrd. I really appreciate your critique. Now lets hope lots of other DUers respond to the call to get this important Senator into the "fillibuster" column.
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Great post. Let's give it up for Senator Byrd.
Kennedy and the far-left attack groups?? -- OR

Bush and the FAR-RIGHT attack groups! Humph!

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Would appreciate a critique of my letter to Byrd, downthread.Thanks.eom
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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Critique posted upthread
It's a template for anyone wanting to communicate with the senator.

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R (Byrd is VERY important!)
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Kicked and recommended.
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 02:40 PM by Radio_Lady
There's a lot of intelligence in this thread.

Now, let's get to work.

In peace,

Radio_Lady
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Radio_Lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
19. I just called Senator Byrd's office -- 1-202-224-3954 -- you can, too.
and expressed my concern with the young woman who answered the telephone.

I told her that I am a concerned Democrat who doesn't live in West Virginia, but who is involved with the Democratic Underground.

I said we are discussing the Alito nomination issue today on the Internet and we hope that Senator Byrd will at least stand fast in disapproval of Alito on a "variety of issues" (I didn't go into much detail). Even though Byrd comes across as a conservative Democrat, he should still stay on track to block this Republican effort to put this man on the Supreme Court.

Byrd, Robert C. (D - WV)
311 HART SENATE OFFICE BUILDING WASHINGTON DC 20510
(202) 224-3954

Web Form: byrd.senate.gov/byrd_email.html

If you happen to be from West Virginia, perhaps you could call or fill out his web form today.

In peace,

Radio_Lady


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GrpCaptMandrake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thanks, RadioLady
In moving Byrd, we may be able to move more Senators indirectly.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Thank you for posting those wise remarks.
:toast: It might even work for a few others who have principles but aren't necessarily interested in the "women's rights" issue because of their constituencies or personal beliefs.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick...PLEASE get this on the Recommended list...it's really important!
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. Why Does Anyone Think Byrd Needs Persuasion?
I trust him to do what is right in this appointment and I trust that what is right is to deny this one. Let Bush find someone more agreeable and submit her or him.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Well, the issue is the fillibuster.
I think that Byrd will probably vote against Alito, but having him on board on the fillibuster, and making one of his impassioned speeches about it, could tip a couple of other Dems (and - dare I hope - perhaps even Republicans?) into supporting the fillibuster, too. That's why he's so important.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. Byrd's Remarks "A Brief History of the Filibuster"
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 11:53 PM by pat_k
This provides a bit of insight into his attitudes.

http://www.byrd.senate.gov/speeches/2005_may/05_19_2005.html

For example

Senate traditionally has given the president great leeway in choosing his policymaking subordinates, especially those in cabinet and subcabinet positions. The Senate has more or less uniformly followed this practice, as a matter of grace and in the spirit of cooperation, to ensure that the executive branch functions as a team in implementing and enforcing the laws.

What has been the fairly general practice with respect to the appointment of executive branch policymakers, however, has not applied to judicial nominations, and arguments to the contrary are at odds with the separation of powers doctrine, common sense, and history.


More Speeches from Byrd
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yellowdogmi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. Little help here? k&r
Edited on Fri Jan-20-06 01:05 AM by yellowdogmi
The latin translation?

Posted to WV group. Maybe you can get some instate support for this articulate letter.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x180564
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. Help! FAX number for Senator Byrd isn't good!
I tried the only FAX number I could find on his website, 304-343-7144, and it wouldn't go through. It said the number was not operating.

I really want to FAX my letter, as I think it is more likely to be seen, as compared to an email from a non-constituent.


Does anyone have a good FAX for Senator Byrd???
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
35.  Help! FAX number for Senator Byrd isn't good!
I tried the only FAX number I could find on his website, 304-343-7144, and it wouldn't go through. It said the number was not operating. The direct number (Charlston office) just rang, but that might be because it's after hours on the east coast.

I really want to FAX my letter, as I think it is more likely to be seen, as compared to an email from a non-constituent.


Does anyone have a good FAX for Senator Byrd???
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