A once again needed reminder. We're Democrats.

[txaslftist]

I had a little run in with some cancer this fall, so it's been a while since I was able to post anything here or read the website. Well, I whupped the cancer, and now it looks like I have to start whupping some of you again.

Some of you know a bit of my story, and lots of you don't. I can tell you this. My grandfather fought in the second world war, got a battlefield commission, and fought again in Korea. He went to hell and came back a Democrat. He never forgot that the Democratic party was the party of working people, little people, people trying to put the bills together at the end of the month, and make the ends meet somewhere in the middle.

He never forgot about that other party, either. The party that most of the generals belonged to. The party that had its meetings at the country club instead of the VFW hall. The party that tried to make lawful strikes illegal and harrassed organizers. He never forgot that there was still a battle to be fought, here, on our soil.

It was a battle between his friends and neighbors and those that looked down on them. It was a battle between rich folks and poor folks. He never got rich, but he was never poor. Through the whole deal he was a Democrat. He was a Democrat for Kennedy, LBJ, McGovern and Carter; Dukakis and Mondale, too.

So am I. Anyway, I come back from being a bit sick, and I see, once again, that we've degenerated into circular firing squads, and self-criticizing eggheads here. I see threads bashing elected Democrats like Reid and Clinton for not being "pure" enough or "progressive" enough. My first thought is, you know, maybe it's trolls from freeperville, but it's people whose posts I've been reading for a long time.

You know, with Mike Brown screwing up, the cronyism in ICE, the states of immigration emergency along our southern border, the Iraq debacle, the dawning realization on the part of some folks that Bush has tried to take on the power of a king, the Abramoff bribery scandals, Tom Delay, Martha Frist and the purple-bandaiding of Jack Murtha...

With all that, you might think the Republicans were in hot water. You might think it was a good time to go after them. So let's do it, okay? And let's stop going after each other.

And if you just MUST MUST MUST say something bad about Gore, or Clinton, or Reid, or Leiberman, or Howard Dean, and you just can't help yourself or you're gonna just DIE, post it on Free Republic. Or post it on Liberty Post. Or shout it out your window. Or maybe, just maybe, think about posting it here in gentle, constructive-criticism terms.

Remembering that the real enemies of the people you care about, the principles you honor and the rights you cherish are in the White House and in the purple bandaid party. And yes, they do read what you post here, and yes, they will use what you say against your friends and allies. If that's paranoid, then consider that Rush Limbaugh quotes this site on his radio show frequently.

[William769]

1. Glad to hear you are doing better.

& from what I have read in your post, I'm glad to see you back. :)

[Upfront]

2. Well Said

It is very inportant to stand togeather for the reasons you point out.

[LiberalEsto]

3. Amen, and welcome back! nt

[MsAnthropy]

4. Bravo!

Glad you're back!

[cali]

5. Glad you're feeling better.

Now here's my but. Yes there are over the top rants that go on, and they're not particularly productive, such as one I saw this morning calling for the purge from the party of all DLCers, but that different from well reasoned and substantive criticism . Let's not forget that vigorous debate is fundamental to democracy. And let's not operate out of fear, not fear of what the repubs and rushboy will do with our posts. That's like not demonstrating for fear of being spied on by the government.

[zalinda]

7. I think we can vigorously debate AFTER

we take back our government. Until then, let's play nice and figure out how we are going to do it.

zalinda

[BushOut06]

17. Honestly, a first step would be getting rid of some of the DINOs

People like Lieberman and Nelson don't help our cause, as they often vote with the GOP side. We need to not only focus on winning GOP seats in '06, but getting some more progressive Dems to run against these guys.

That being said, I will never ever launch a personal attack against a fellow Dem. Well, maybe against Zell Miller, but he's so far on the dark side he might as well change his name to Anakin Miller.

[G_j]

35. Democracy without debate?

you can't have one without the other (no matter what Republicans say)

[catmother]

47. that's my feeling. nt

[Jane Austin]

6. Welcome back, and so glad you beat the cancer.

Thanks for the well-said post, too.

I sure don't care for the DLC'ers, myself, but we're going to need their votes.

Purity is better in the food and water supplies.

[Adelante]

8. Thank you

You've said what I have been thinking and you've said it beautifully.

So glad you are doing well :hug:

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[f-bush]

10. Well said

And a good reminder to me why I work so hard for liberal candidates and issues. It is so important to remember those who have no voice of advocacy and the most needful of those among us. If we forget, then to me we have lost our soul as a nation and can speak no longer with any moral credibility. IMHO

[Marleyb]

11. We can't even say anything about Lieberman??!!

We have to be able to take a look at what our party has done to enable this administration to be able to fix it for the future.

If I may quote scripture...
"Why do you see the speck in your neighbor's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? Or how can you say to your neighbor, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' while the log is in your own eye?

You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye."

[zalinda]

13. And if we always stay in the minority, it will never be fixed.

[Marleyb]

19. If our Dems stood up to vote fraud, we wouldn't be in the minority

All our Democratic representatives have to do is speak the truth, uphold the constitution, and throw the voting machines in the boston harbor and the majority is ours.

They keep playing along with the war on terror, the war in Iran...they need to stop enabling this administration.

The American people never wanted the war in Iraq. We never wanted an unending war on terror, where...because we are at war, Bush can ignore the constitution. WE THE PEOPLE want impeachment. Whichever party speaks for the PEOPLE is supposed to win elections.

The democrats on this board know where it's at- our 'representatives' need to start paying attention.

If we pretend all is well, how in the hell does anyone expect the 'election' to change anything in 2006...2008...

[zalinda]

30. The can talk a mile a minute, but if it doesn't get covered

did they really say anything? That's the problem. You can yell all you want about "throwing the voting machines in the boston harbor", but the majority of the people doesn't really know that anything is wrong with them. Hey, if the 4 majors don't carry it, it might as well never happened.

Wake up people!!!!!! We are the fringe!!!!!!! We are the few who watch cspan. Most people aren't that concerned. Yell and scream and jump up and down and you just look like an idiot. Our dems know what they are doing, whether we like it or not. They have been in the game for a very long time. They have the experience, we don't. They know where the skeletons are buried, we don't. We have to trust them, we don't have any other choice. That doesn't mean to stop being active, it just means pick your fights. Right now, the fight is to get the repubs out of office, or neutralize them.

zalinda

[txaslftist]

22. Well, it kinda depends on what you say...

...saying Lieberman is a traitor who must be lynched ignores the fact that on social issues he's quite progressive. Sure, he's got a problem looking objectively at anything related to Israel and he could use a good primary opponent, frankly. Do I want him gone?

Well, Al Gore is the hero of the day around here on account of what he said about King Bush's undoing of the magna charta, and good for Al, frankly. Al chose Lieberman as a running mate. So is Al a smart guy with a blind spot for homely jewish senators, or is he just a plain old smart guy? Knowing a bit about Al, I gotta go with smart guy. And if Al is smart, and Lieberman is okay with Al, maybe there's something to Lieberman I'm not seeing. Maybe I'd better take a good look before I fly off the handle.

As for how I go about flying off the handle, you know, maybe I could tone it down and think a minute before I go bashing a Democrat.

I was plenty pissed at Harry Reid for "taking Abramoff money" when I heard about it. Then I found out that what I was hearing was horseshit, and that Reid really hadn't been anything like the Republican bribe takers who were REALLY taking bribes. So I would've regretted bashing Harry Reid, get it?

As for Zell Miller, well, he's not the same thing at all. He gave a speech at the Republican National Convention, didn't he? He's a Republican, plain and simple.

[Nutmegger]

31. I'll criticize Lieberman

however, it'll be constructive and according my MY views. Every "public servant", every democrat, every incumbent needs to face criticism and not take it for granted that they are a incumbent. This is why we have primaries. I'm going to fight like hell during the primary to oust Lieberman because, to me, his views on Iraq are wrong and he knows he won't face serious opposition from these comments so he feels uninhibited.

Constructive criticism is okay. Flaming and all that is unhealthily and doesn't help advance our Party.

To the OP: Glad to hear that you beat the cancer!

[Nikki Stone 1]

12. Recommended and kicked

:kick:

[seabeyond]

14. beautiful words. and more glad you are feeling better n/t

[mtnsnake]

15. Thanks txaslftist

Great hearing your words. I know what you mean. It seems like I'm always getting caught up in threads where I feel inclined to defend Hillary, even though she's not my #1 candidate (I do like her, though). The way it sounds around here lately, you'd think you were on a Republican board instead of a Democratic one when it comes to the likes of her. Funny thing is, Hillary is the 9th ranked Senator out of 100 when it comes to voting progressively on all the issues. Imagine that! One would never know that if they believed all the venom spewed at her here on such a regular basis, yet they can never back up their allegations against her with any facts. Anyway, enough of that.....I'm glad you're doing well!

Oh, BTW, Joe Lieberman....well, he's another story, but there's always exceptions to the rule!

[Clark2008]

28. My problem isn't with her voting record.

My problem is that I'm a blue voter in a red state and I can personally see how vilified she is in the eyes of moderate swing voters. I know she won't flip any red states and could possibly even lose Pennsylvania and Michigan, two blue states with a lot of hunters and lunchbox Republicans (if it weren't for the major cities in those two states, those states would be red, believe me).

I worry that if Hillary's our nominee, it's over and the Republicans will win another one - with or without Diebold, Triad and ES&S.

I don't bash her - I simply try to point this out often to blue staters who really don't seem to know much about red states. We need to unite this country and I'm looking for candidates who some swing voters would sink their teeth into and like so that the Dems can WIN.

I hope she has a long career in the Senate, myself.

[MrBenchley]

16. Great post!!

I get so sick of the Junior Joe McCarthy club here drawing up lists of DINO's to purge.

[BushOut06]

18. Sorry, not going to change my position simply because it's unpopular

If we're going to defend anyone and everyone simply because they have a (D) after their name, regardless of what their voting record is, whom they associate themselves with, or their actions, then doesn't that lend credence to the popular argument "both parties are just the same"?

If Jeb Bush were to suddenly change political affiliations and call himself a Democrat, would we suddenly welcome him with open arms and defend him? Being against DINOs does not mean that you don't support the Democratic Party. Quite the opposite, I firmly support what we stand for, and it pisses me off to see some of our own basically collaborating with the gophers. We do need to work to try to get progressive candidates to run against these DINOs.

Like I said in a previous response on this thread, I'm not going to personally attack these people. But I sure as hell don't have to agree with what they stand for.

[MrBenchley]

23. So don't then, and see if I care....

"doesn't that lend credence to the popular argument "both parties are just the same"? "
Bullshit. Who the fuck thinks when someone says "both parties are the same" they mean in terms of loyalty? And it's telling that the only people I EVER hear say that are either
--Republicans trying to throw some of their stink off, or
--far left loonies who can't get their own crackpot movements off the ground.

"Being against DINOs does not mean that you don't support the Democratic Party."
Again. bullshit. Especially when you see how loosely and in what a silly manner the term DINO is thrown around, and by whom.

"We do need to work to try to get progressive candidates to run against these DINOs."
Then let 'er rip. So far all I hear from the progressives is either whining about this or that Democrat (almost always a Democrat up for re-election in 2006 and beating his or her GOP opponent like a rented mule) or outright lies.

[BushOut06]

29. Hold on for just a second...

Zell Miller is a Democrat. When he was still in Congress, were you defending him against those who were calling him a DINO? Same goes for Ben Nelson of Nebraska, and Joe Lieberman. These guys spend quite a bit of time kissing RW talk-show ass.

Sometimes I find this "circle the wagons" mentality a little disturbing, it's almost as if we dont want to admit that there might be a problem. I think a lot of you are misconstruing mine and others' statements on this board. It's almost as if you want to accuse us of not being "good little Democrats" because we refuse to embrace anyone with a "D" behind their name. Especially when it's so friggin easy to change party affiliations. Hell, here in Florida, we've already seen a rash of "Democrats" change their party affiliation to "Republican". But I suppose we should have embraced those "DINOS" here in Florida until they finally showed their true colors?

[MrBenchley]

32. When Zell Miller was in Congress

he counted as a Democrat, no matter how screwloose he was. You really ought to get a clue about how politics works.

"Sometimes I find this "circle the wagons" mentality a little disturbing"
Then stay outside, and see if I care.

"you want to accuse us of not being "good little Democrats""
No shit.

[BushOut06]

33. So you're saying a Democrat who votes Republican is okay?

If a Democrat votes conservative once in awhile, I can forgive that. After all, this is politics, and sometimes a little give-and-take is necessary to get things done. But there are some out there who seem to vote GOP pretty darn consistently. Those

[MrBenchley]

34. You mean like John Murtha?

John is pro-school prayer and anti-choice. He co-sponsored a constitutional amendment with crooked Duke Cunningham.

Is HE okay with you? Or is it only the Democrats the other Kool Kidz hate that you want to complain about?

[BushOut06]

36. Gee, what is it?

I'd look at the overall picture first, and obviously there are going to be some differences in opinion within our party on certain issues. If Murtha votes consistently with the GOP, then yes, he would be a problem. Please tell me what good it does having someone who claims to be a Democrat if they don't VOTE Democrat? I suppose if Ann Coulter registered as a Republican and ran for office, you'd support her.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for the head of every single Democrat who has ever cast a "conservative" vote at one time or another. I just can't understand why I'm being railroaded for not having "tunnel vision" and giving blind, unquestioning support to someone merely because they have that "D" behind their name.

[MrBenchley]

37. Hahahahaha....

So in other words, even though Murtha is exactly the sort of person you want to purge, you're giving him a pass because the Kool Kidz all like him.

"If Murtha votes consistently with the GOP"
Well, this is rich. You don't know his record?

"I just can't understand why I'm being railroaded for not having "tunnel vision" and giving blind, unquestioning support to someone merely because they have that "D" behind their name."
Ahahahahahaha.........

[BushOut06]

40. Offhand, no

If I were to bring up some random US Representative, would you know his or her voting record off the top of your head without doing any research? I know about Lieberman, Nelson, and Miller because they are constantly in the news, they are constantly on RW radio sucking up, and many of their views are very well known.

And I love how you continually put words in my mouth. I never said I wanted to purge EVERYONE who has voted conservative on occasion, or who might hold differing views on certain things. In fact, I made it quite clear this was not the case.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to get engaged in a flame war simply because you demand unwavering loyalty to each and every Democrat, regardless of what they say or do.

[MrBenchley]

42. Yeah, Murtha's just some random US representative....

"I never said I wanted to purge EVERYONE who has voted conservative on occasion"
No, you just want to join the Kool Kidz when they have their own little Two Minutes Hate.

[sandnsea]

24. I have an idea

Find something, anything, that the Democrats are doing right and just focus on that. Being a part of any particular fight will always entail things that you think could be done different. By being in the middle of a particular fight, you'll have an opportunity to submit different approaches directly, where it'll do some good. But to just stand back and throw rocks at the people who are IN the fight just leaves everybody wounded.

[baby_mouse]

20. eggheads

...really?

[txaslftist]

27. Eggheads really, really.

I don't know about the efficacy of Republican "think tanks", because sometimes they come up with some really, really, dumb ideas. Like the "Starve the beast" notion of running up a huge deficit to use as an excuse to cut social programs or the idea that we need to be an Empire in the 21st century.

On the other hand, they serve (or served until recently) as a way the Pukes could air their dirty laundry in private, come up with a consensus position for public consumption, and then work in a unified way to sell it. This was very effective for them for a while, but the privacy and secrecy undid them, too. This was an environment that fostered corruption "what a man does in secret..." and all that.

I like the fact that Democrats debate in the light of day. Debating in the light of day doesn't mean shooting ourselves in the foot, though. Public division, while a good thing in a democratic society and certainly the best way to come up with effective policy, calls for some self-restraint, some discipline, and some reasoned consideration.

Primarily, though, it calls for rememberance of a critical point. You have to remember where you come from and who you are. You have to keep in mind who your enemies are. You have to avoid the perfect going to war against the good, leaving the bad to triumph.

So yeah. Eggheads are, in my mind, really smart people who get caught up in the intellectual exercise of a particular bit of relative minutia, and lose sight of where they come from and who they are.

Eggheads, indeed.

[baby_mouse]

39. 'kay.

had a :dilemma: there.

Better put them to good use, these eggheads...

[baby_mouse]

41. 'kay nt.

[sandnsea]

21. Glad you whupped it!

My sister just got a clean bill a couple weeks ago. In fact, she just had her port taken out yesterday. So I know what a major relief that is!

And thanks for your post. It's exactly what we need to do. I'm so inspired I have to say, MOSH!!

[mmonk]

25. Glad you whupped the cancer

but I still will whup up on any democrat that doesn't stand up for democratic principles in any manner I choose. My convictions are incapable of compromise.

[Greyhound]

26. First let me say how good it is that you're going to be fine. I'm not

sure to which of the many, many attacks on Dems or DINOs you refer to, but the lesser of two evils is just a lesser.
Supporting nominal Democrats that vote against Democratic Principles and advocate the corporatist agenda are just as bad, if not worse than, the re:puke:s IMO.

[wicket]

38. Welcome back!!!!

I am so sorry to hear about your bout with cancer, but I am very happy to see you back! I lost my 10 year old cousin to a brain tumor in October :( :hug:

[cmd]

43. Welcome back - great post!

I'm giving it a recommendation.

[ulysses]

44. congrats on surviving the cancer

from one survivor to another. :thumbsup:

As to the rest, I am a Democrat, but I'm a Democrat because I'm progressive, not the other way round. I'll criticize whoever I feel needs it.

[Iowa]

48. Good post ulysses!

"I am a Democrat, but I'm a Democrat because I'm progressive, not the other way round. I'll criticize whoever I feel needs it."

You nailed it in 2 short sentences. Kudos.

[pitohui]

45. a good post and glad you're doing so well EOM

,

[samhsarah]

46. I am very happy you're doing well....

but I have a few disagreements with your post. First of all, let me say that I don't see any reason to throw ultimatums at Dems as a whole, or give up on the ideals of the Democratic Party. But there are elected officials in the Democratic Party who have done just that. I have seen post after post railing on people when they are being critical. It's not right, and it's not what being a Democrat is about. Trying to TELL someone that they must support an elected official regardless of what they do and regardless of whether or not they do what people put them in office to do, is what FREEPERS do. (And please don't take that the wrong way, I am not trying to call you a freeper) They blindly follow the blind. Am I saying that all the Dems are blind? Absolutely not. I will take a bad Democrat over a good Republican (assuming there are any) any day. But do I reserve the right to criticize a Democrat when they are more concerned with their own personal interests (aka. Lieberman, Ben Nelson) than doing the work of the people. I can relate to your story about your grandfather. I have a similar one. My grandfather immigrated here from Italy and he fought in WWII also. He used to say he would vote for a "dead pig" before he ever voted for a Republican. Both of our grandfathers fought so that we could sit here today and argue amongst ourselves. I will not give up my right to question ANY of my elected officials, be it George W. Bush OR Joseph Lieberman. If the freepers are watching, let them watch. Maybe they'll learn something about what free thinking and free speech is all about. We're gonna argue. Most liberals are critical thinkers. That's what we do. But in the end of the day, we will come together. WE ALWAYS DO. If people are frustrated and they need to vent, where should they do it, if not here? Democrats who want to call themselves Democrats and gain the support of the masses should act like DEMOCRATS. If they don't, they should be weeded out in the primaries. If just OK is the standard, then just OK is what we get. We should hold Dems to a higher standard than Republicans. We are better than them. And our elected leaders need to be as well.

[rman]

49. yeah, don't critisize the leadership in a time of war...