Minimum wage: I'm mad at my leaders!

[ShaniqaPie]

I like to see Democrats win a fight when the fight matters. On this one, it seems that the only thing that mattered to them was winning.

So many people could have been helped by that $2.10 increase in the minimum wage. Maybe it is too much to expect of a Senator to understand that.

Why did they vote it down? To deny a fraction of a percent of people a tax cut on estates. Yes, it's the rich who would benefit, but we're not talking about a lot of money in the big scheme. It's a drop in the overall revenue bucket, and we could repeal that tax cut later. The Repugs are in power unfortunately, and they do get to play games like this.

Those working poor could benefit from a wage increase right now!

S.

[Pharaoh]

1. The repubs are insane!

To give those rich greedy fucks another tax cut to further drain our treasury would be nuts!
And they had this increase over several years, and we can and will do better when we win the house in November, For the Repubs to attach that bullshit to the bill just shows what contempt they have for us working people.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elehhhhna]

6. GOOD POST. This Horse trading mentality on Cong. Bills HAS TO STOP.

[MercutioATC]

16. My problem is that there wasn't a unified explanation WHY they voted no.

I didn't see any message from the Party explaining that the estate tax and the minimum wage were two completely different issues and needed to be voted on separately. They SHOULD have painted the issue that way.

It was a complete strategic failure.


...and your reply to an honest question was simply rude...

[OzarkDem]

47. Blame the GOP

Dems have already responded, it was a transparent ploy to give the GOP a talking point in the mid-term elections.

You should already know that.

[OzarkDem]

48. Welcome to DU!

[MercutioATC]

51. No, I blame US for not providing a unified message.

Why would I blame the GOP for not doing our job for us? They're the opposition , remember?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShaniqaPie]

30. White guilt, can I say that here?

I think that these Senators can related to a big estate easier than they can relate to a minimum wage job. That;s why they're so fixated on punishing the rich people they golf with.

S.

[Sydnie]

42. who was trying to punish who?

There is no punishment for the rich involved at all. They are no worse off (no better either) than they were before this lousy bill was proposed. The repubs can keep right on golfing with them and taking their money while telling them their shoulda, coulda, woulda's ... if it wasn't for those lousy dems ... They will not suffer in the least from it's demise.

Even after saying all that, this bill was rightfully stopped as it did harm to the poor while giving candy to the rich. A clean bill is preferable to this piece of crap.

[John Q. Citizen]

53. The bill would have lowered wages for wait staff in my state, and

for anyone who depends on tips to survive. Motel house keepers, casino workers, etc would have been hit hard.

Have you read the bill?

It really sucked for a number of reasons.

First, it phased in a $2.10 raise over 3 years. That isn't enough. Had the Repo bill passed the argument would have been, "we already dealt with that."

Secondly by cutting the estate tax, they would have been raising the birth tax on all Americans. This birth tax is the share of the national debt each man, woman, and child owes to pay off the debt incurred from the principal and interest charged to give tax cuts to the wealthy.

Only 1% of all estates pay any federal estate taxes, but those add up to a tidy sum every year which helps off set the principle and interest on the national debt.

The estate tax rate is already being lowered every year on a schedule, and the value of estates liable for the tax is raising every year on a schedule so there is already yearly tax relief for the wealthy cumulating in 2010 when the tax is scheduled to be phased out completely.

[msongs]

3. sorry the "fight" doesn't matter to you. it does to others nt

[Pharaoh]

4. PS

Welcome to DU!!!

[madokie]

5. welcome to du

[Oversea Visitor]

7. So vote

Nov coming. But no right to say that vote dem get pay rise.
Sound almost like .......???

But hey vote Republicans what you get :rofl:

[johnaries]

8. Welcome to DU! The wage increase should have it's own bill.

Why should we fall for Republican tricks? Once we take back control we can have a Living Wage bill, without being attached to another bill that will increase our already outrageous debt.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sydnie]

10. A drop in the bucket? 800 Billion dollars is a drop in the bucket?

800 Billion dollars divided among 7500 people! The minimum wage increase wouldn't take full effect for three years, giving only a 4,160 dollar increase in wages when fully implemented. With the way the cost of living is increasing, by the time that was fully implemented, it would almost be a pay cut for those who needed it the most.

Perhaps you don't understand just how this law would have impacted all concerned completely.

It was a bad law, with more benefits for the rich than the poor. Tipped employees in (I believe the number was) 8 states would actually have LOST income with the way this law was structured.

It wasn't a bill to help the poor. It was a bill to help the GOP. It was a win/win for them no matter how it went down in the Senate. If it passed, they got to claim that they raised the wages, if it failed, they get to blame the dems for it's failure. See how well that plan worked? Because you consider it a loss rather than a win you are playing right into their hands.

Do some homework on the actual bill and you will understand just why the dems did the right thing by keeping it from passing.

Work to get the dems back in charge and you will see better legislation brought forward. Legislation that actually helps those that it is intended to help, without all the garbage that they added to this bill.

800 Billion dollars is not a drop in the bucket in my book. Your book must be different than mine though. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

11. Tens of thousands of food workers back to $2.10 an hour

Yeah that's real helpful. And the minimum wage wouldn't go to $7.25 an hour for 3 years, when it should be $7.25 NOW. This was a terrible trade and I'm glad they didn't vote for it, they just need to focus on the right way to fight the right wing attack.

[TheFarseer]

12. I think they should repeal the tax on Medicare

on any wages above 90,000, because it's not fair that some people have to pay more taxes like that. To pass it, we will include in the bill a provision that everyone gets a free pony and a snickers bar. A pony could do so much for people who can't afford cars but need reliable transportation and it wouldn't cost much because the pony graze in your back yard. The snickers bar would help people who are hungry and can't afford food. Would you be in favor of that?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluerum]

14. I think you are dead wrong on this one. The bill also kept minimum

wage for those who work in the restaraunt business and other "tip occupations".

Your post reflects exactly the calculation the republicans made when attaching the poison pill estate tax amendment to the bill.

[Historic NY]

15. Your $2.10 would have taken untill 2009 to have

been implemented completely and if you worked for tips, well you probably would lose money.

The GOP package would increase the wage from $5.15 to $7.25 per hour, phased in over the next three years.

The Republican minimum wage bill, which may come to a vote on the Senate floor by the end of this week, would actually cut the salaries of hundreds of thousands of workers across seven states. The way the law passed by the House last week is written, employers in every state would be allowed to lower the base wage they pay and count tips earned toward meeting minimum wage requirements.

The Republican law would dictate a rock-bottom minimum of $2.13 per hour for workers receiving gratuities in all states -- including those seven -- with the difference between that and their state-mandated minimum wage made up with the tips that they currently get above and beyond the higher wage.

It would also exempt $5 million of an individual's estate, and $10 million of a couple's, from estate taxes by 2015. Estates worth up to $25 million would be taxed at capital gains rates, currently 15 percent and scheduled to rise to 20 percent. Tax rates on the remainder of larger estates would fall to 30 percent by 2015. (rich get richer)

Working class Americans definitely need a raise but not the Republican way. Congress is due for a $3000 raise soon and guess who pays for that. If they had their way it wouldn't be those who would have to pay on their mega estates.

[napi21]

17. I disagree with you. It's much better to wait 6 more months and

get a DECENT stand alone wage increase bill than to cower into the corner and have the Pubs force yet another tax cut through at the expense of the people you want to help with the wage increase!

That kind of arm twisting can't be excused!

[insane_cratic_gal]

18. This was all posturing on the Repukes side

they wanted to make the dems look like assholes because most people don't pay attention to politics and they are banking on that. All they want you to hear is the dems voted down a min wage bill.

They don't expect you to know they sneaked in a bill that was favoring the rich. They are hoping you don't notice, from your initial post I can say their hopes couldn't be more realized

[G2099]

20. Slaves Wages

[LSK]

21. are you one of the 8200 who would have gotten a huge tax break?

1. It was an ESTATE TAX BILL with minimum wage tacked on at the BOTTOM.

2. Who do you expect was going to pay the $800 billion shortfall of taxes??? The poor and the middle class, thats who. Oh and thats AFTER we borrow from China.

3. Care to discuss how tip earners were going to be majorly screwed and force to work almost for free relying on tips???

4. Why cant the MAJORITY PARTY just submit a SIMPLE BILL dedicated ONLY to raising the minimum wage?? It would pass by a HUGE MAJORITY, IF the Republicans actually cared for this issue that is.

[benny05]

23. Amen

This was one of the worst bills of special interest, as Senator Durbin pointed out yesterday.

I'm pleased the bill is dead. No, the Rethugs wouldn't pass the ones by Clinton or Kennedy earlier this year, so they tried this crapola.

[TahitiNut]

24. $800 billion for 8,000 of the richest families.

Crumbs for the working poor. :puke:

[TahitiNut]

22. Sounds like you think Sophie's Choice was fair.

:puke:

[stray cat]

25. Repubs throw workers crumbs of bread and take away gov benefits

Its a ploy to repeal the estate tax which will require cuts in benefits to working Americans to make up the loss of revenue. Dems were right on this one but they have to nail the repubs for the ploy.

[Solo_in_MD]

26. It was a hard call for the Dems

and there are good arguments on both sides. While it was not enough, it was still a significant step up in wages for some of those at min wage. The estate tax cuts were aimed at the weathiest who need for them is questionable.

The seminal cause was the tying of the two items together by the repukes. Blame them, not the the Dems that were forced to choose between the lesser of two evils.

[union_maid]

27. Most of us are proud of them

The Democrats refused to let themselves be trapped into voting for another huge tax break for the wealthy. That's a sign of health and of leadership. It was a very bad bill, framed as blackmail.

[Joe Fields]

28. The bill, if passed, would have actually LOWERED the wages

of hundreds of thousands of workers in seven different states. Trust me, the dems did the right thing by not being held hostage to a gross tax cut for the very wealthy.

[Nickster]

40. Exactly right. n/t

[China_cat]

29. The working poor need a REAL wage increase

Not something that is actually a promise with fingers crossed behind their backs.

I know it's hard to understand but this was the right outcome for THIS bill.

[Warpy]

31. You're wrong on many levels

First, that measly two bucks would have taken THREE YEARS to kick in, and by that time, people would be five bucks an hour behind what they'd be if it had been enacted to kick in within 6 months.

Second, we are talking about a huge amount of money and a huge principle in the estate tax elimination. First, the treasury can't afford another tax cut to billionaires. Second, that would allow vast fortunes to be passed from generation to generation untouched, setting up a moneyed, inherited aristocracy. I don't know what your ancestors ran away from in Europe, but mine ran away from royalty.

Third, the wage hike was worded in such a way to cause a wage REDUCTION in a lot of states that already have minimum wage laws on the books. How many people do you want to hurt to get that lousy two bucks an hour three years from now?

It was a self serving piece of shit bill. It was designed to fail and it did.

[Lefty48197]

32. I hope you've been criticizing the GOP for blocking min. wage increases

...oh for the last 75 years or so!

[B Calm]

34. BINGO!

[Sydnie]

41. thank you

Someone had to say it. It was a horse and pony show, no more no less.

[Sapphire Blue]

33. You didn't come here to bash our Democratic leaders who have been trying..

... to get a minimum wage increase passed for the past 10 years that the repubs have controlled Congress & blocked every attempt, now, did you? No, you wouldn't do a thing like that. That would be disruptive... something a troll would do.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. Please Don't Attack Newbies With Legitimate Concerns.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1826685&mesg_id=1827572

[Breeze54]

35. Stop drinking the red kool aid!

It's poisonous!! It makes people :puke: !

http://www.now.org/lists/now-action-list/msg00258.html

Snip-->

Minimum Wage Increase Held Hostage in Senate

H.R. 5970 is bad because:

It will raid our treasury of billions of dollars to help 8,000 rich families get richer.
It will hurt millions of hard-working families and low-income workers who cannot afford
to trade a few dollars increase in their paychecks if the tradeoff is cuts and reductions
for federal programs such as Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, veterans programs,
children's health, senior services and unemployment insurance,
which will leave them with fewer resources after the increase.
It will hurt millions of workers in food service and other jobs where they rely on tips.

Women, young and old, single and married, make up 70% of the "tipped" workers,
and in seven states where they are guaranteed a minimum wage,
the minimum will be frozen and they will see no raise.

Background:

On July 28, just hours before the House Congressional recess, members voted 230-180
for a bill that would provide massive estate tax cuts for the children of America's
multi-millionaires. Only about 8,000 families would reap the benefit, but the total
reduction in funds to the government would exceed $750,000,000,000 ($750 billion)
over ten years -- likely contributing to serious cuts in spending for basic government
services and programs, such as Medicaid, Medicare, Violence Against Women Act,
and Head Start to name a few.

Why do politicians say we can afford to cut taxes by $750 billion for multi-millionaires,
but can't afford to increase funding for important human needs program and vital
educational, health care and victim's services?

In order to attract Democratic Senators to this revenue giveaway,
Republican leaders sweetened the package by adding a long-overdue minimum wage
increase (which overrides states' minimum wage laws for restaurant workers and
could reduce wages for waitresses in seven states).
The minimum wage increase is desperately needed, but Congress should not tie it
to a massive tax cut for the wealthiest families.

Congress routinely raises its own pay without attaching strings, but now an
increase for the lowest paid workers is tied to a benefit for the super-rich. :evilfrown:

The Washington Post called the bill a "noxious package,"
and The New York Times editorial called it "cynical in the extreme."



"It's political blackmail to say the only way that minimum wage workers can get a raise
is to give a tax giveaway to the wealthiest Americans... Members of Congress raised their own
pay -- no strings attached. Surely, common decency suggests that minimum wage workers
deserve the same respect," said US Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) to the AP

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What have you got against poor working people anyway?
:shrug:

[gulfcoastliberal]

36. I'm proud enuf dems stuck together to defeat the estate tax reapeal bill.

Which happened to have a bullshit minimum wage "increase" attached. As other posters have pointed out, it would have overriden state laws mandating food service workers get paid min wage+tips.

This bill was an abomination and even Brooks said so on Newshour last night. And he's one of the billionaires who'd enjoy the estate tax repeal. Of course, he still wants that tax repealed, just in a separate bill. Frist said he's going to go for it again. Hope the dems stop him again. Dems need to get out the message the estate tax affect .001% of the popluation and has nothing to do with family farmers and small business owners.

Only agribusiness factory farms and multinational corporate scions benefit.

[porphyrian]

37. The republicans added elimination of the estate tax to the bill...

...if it had been voted in, the largest portion of our tax base would've been cut in half and you and I would've been stuck with covering the difference. If that would've happened, we'd still be broke, just with bigger numbers.

[patrice]

38. Doesn't reduction of any tax increase the "Birth Tax"?

Whatever gains you get in a compromised raise in minimum you loose to the Deficit which you not only pay for in your taxes, but which also cuts the services that the government supplies and which you pay for in your taxes.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

44. Please Don't Attack Newbies With Legitimate Concerns.

I think this poster is one of us but maybe just not as informed as many of us are. New posters should be given a chance to learn like the rest of us. This poster won't learn a thing to have their mind made more aware if all DU'ers are gonna do is criticize that they're a freeper.

This is a legitimate issue out there that has been spun by the RW propaganda machine, and there are many democrats or middle of the roaders that truly don't understand the issue. That's why we're here: To inform and educate and erradicate the cloud of confusion and propaganda.

In order to do that we have to be fair and willing to educate, and not be so quick to judge and criticize new members that come here looking for answers.

Please take that under consideration.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

49. How 'bout letting the mods decide that, m'kay?

"Anyone with a low post count coming in at this stage of the game and playing this kind of baiting game is a GOP disruptor."


Don't like the OP? Alert on it. The mods will remove it and/or the poster if they feel the need to do so.


Oh, by the way, not everybody who disagrees with you is a "disruptor". I thought that would have been apparent to you by now...

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

50. I Said The Poster's Concern Was Legitimate, And I Believe It Is.

That's outside of whether I believe the sentiment is one with validity, of which I don't.

"Anyone with a low post count coming in at this stage of the game and playing this kind of baiting game is a GOP disruptor."

You couldn't be more wrong, and it serves our community quite poorly to treat new members in this way. I have no doubt that the OP is looking for answers and I thank the many DU'ers who have gracefully done so in an educational manner.

But automatically assuming a new member is a freeper merely because they don't already have all of the answers is completely short-sighted and ignorant.

Reach out to those that require awareness, do not shun them.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

43. Please, Turn Off Hannity. This Is The Stuff That Moron Spews.

It would've been a display of monumental stupidity to fall prey the republican tactic of tying this to the estate tax bill. If you are a democrat, then you'd be serving your democratic brothers and sisters far better by placing your rage where it truly needs to be, and that's on the republican slimy criminal selfish greedy cold don't give a fuck about the middle class or poor mother fuckers that had the gall to take something as beneficial as the minimum wage bill and tie it to something as fiscally irresponsible as the estate tax bill. This is how the republican congress works. It's all one big game without giving a fuck about the people of this country. Blame them. They knew it wouldn't pass. It was all smoke and mirrors, but the likes of moron Sean Hannity would like you to believe that the evil dems voted against the minimum wage! LOL Are you kidding me? What a load of utter smelly crap. This is the evil of the republicans, playing games with people's well being. Put your anger where it should appropriately go: On the republican controlled failure of a congress that no longer works for the people but only for themselves and the elite.

And welcome to DU. Keep your mind open. There is much truth you can learn here that you aren't gonna get from the RW propaganda machine media outlets.

Trust me on this, the Dems did the absolutely right thing with this one.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

52. bullshit....that 2.10 wouldnt hit in years

and we were paying out more than that in tax cuts...

[Hidden Stillness]

54. You are Mad at Republicans?

On DU's General-Politics forum, there is a thread asking "Will Republicans succeed in turning minimum wage votes against Democrats?" by DeepModemMom. Well, here is the attempt. "The only thing that mattered to (Democrats) was winning..." "Why did they vote it down? To deny a fraction of a percent of people a tax cut on estates. Yes, it's the rich who would benefit, but we're not talking about a lot of money in the big scheme. It's a drop in the overall revenue bucket, and we could repeal that tax cut later..." "Those working poor...(etc.)" Yeah, okay. Straight from the book.

I take it from your user name and picture that you are a corporate Republican white male, so I will explain a few things, although several others on this thread actually caught what you were, too, with great replies--despite the "organized" attack on them. It is less than amusing when males who ordinarily attack and spit hate at women, laughing and jeering, suddenly "caution that we be kind," and that a poster with 22 posts who has not come back to reply, is not being called a "hit and run flame-thrower." I thought that always happened; this must be special.

Unlike you, I am not rich, so I recognized you immediately. So did every labor union I know of, which all came out publicly against this scam, and the AFL-CIO website had a blog called "American People Didn't Fall for Bad-Faith Senate Bill--Here's Why," which you can click on from their home page, aflcio.org/ . The minimum wage should be tripled immediately, yet your Party gave a puny $2+ raise over THREE YEARS, which no one will notice. Meanwhile, we will lose almost a trillion dollars by the loss of the estate tax, and other tax cuts for rich people and corporations would have been also shifted onto us. Several categories of employment were not even covered under the bill, and States that forced employers to pay the minimum wage to those who earn tips, would have been busted back to third-world levels of pay ($2+ an hour--what would you do for that?).

After Republicans have fought Ted Kennedy and others for all these years, trying to just raise the minimum wage, they wanted to get their inheritance tax cut--which we the American people fought them on, yet again--and so they came up with this ruse. Millions of the "little people," as your type so often calls my type, prayed that it would fail and that they would just pass a real minimum wage hike, and it failed. It did not pass because we the people told them to vote against it--too bad. If you would pay more attention to the way the people are turning against your rich corporate Party rather than spreading lies against those who defeated your estate tax-kill attempt, which did not work at all this time, you and our whole country would be better off. You can't "frame" and "spin" these things away anymore.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

55. Please Don't Attack Newbies With Legitimate Concerns.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1826685&mesg_id=1827572

Thanks.

:hi:

[Hidden Stillness]

56. Please Explain What You Claim is "Legitimate"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

57. The Sincerity Of The OP's Opinion.

I have no reason to believe that the OP is a freeper or disruptor and it is completely unfair and inappropriate for you to do so.

We can't expect everybody to be 100% informed all of the time or express opinions that line up squarely with our own convictions and awareness. Some people have genuine concerns and opinions and require further insight and assistance to understand the issues. We are at our best when we reach out to those people in order to assist them and help them become aware to the truth of the situation.

Learn to be willing to help, rather than just an obnoxious assumptive assessment of "if you don't know everything you're supposed to know about a sensitive topic then you must be a freeper". That's not only against the rules, but does nothing to welcome members and create an environment conducive to learning and furthering the quest for truth.

[Sapphire Blue]

58. Bye, ShaniqaPie. Guess you were a troll after all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=192788

[mvd]

59. Locking

Thread starter has been banned.

mvd
dU Moderator