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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 11:48 AM
Original message
Hawkish Democrats ready for Iran (Bayh, Clinton)
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 11:51 AM by Mass
I find the Irani president perfectly repugnant, but how can cutting regular Iranians from the international forums help them.

However, I agree with Clinton that the Bush administration should have been involved in the negotiations. But, it does not seem too surprising that they did not.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060119/pl_afp/usiranpolitics;_ylt=Au_R8hMuisWvzAbPpcMA8J2yFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

US bill to call for international isolation of Iran

15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A US senator said he plans to introduce a bill calling on
President George W. Bush's administration to press governments around the world to shun
Iran over its nuclear program.
ADVERTISEMENT

Democratic Senator Evan Bayh, speaking on US television, said he plans to introduce his resolution Friday, calling for Iran to be excluded from international forums and events and asking the administration to urge other governments to sever economic relations with Tehran.

"I just came back from the region, and it is increasingly clear that Iran presents a real menace not only to the national security interests of the United States but to the rest of the civilized world, as well. They are the foremost sponsor of terrorism in the world," Bayh told the Fox News cable television network.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060119/ap_on_go_co/clinton_princeton;_ylt=AgY5LEOBwBxmMHixBgLTOQWyFz4D;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--


Sen. Clinton Calls for Iran Sanctions

By GEOFF MULVIHILL, Associated Press Writer 55 minutes ago

PRINCETON, N.J. - Sen.
Hillary Clinton called for
United Nations sanctions against
Iran and faulted the Bush administration for "downplaying" the threat Tehran's nuclear program poses.
ADVERTISEMENT

In an address Wednesday evening at Princeton University, Clinton, D-N.Y., said it was a mistake for the U.S. to have Britain, France and Germany head up nuclear talks with Iran over the past 2 1/2 years. Last week, Iran resumed nuclear research in a move Tehran claims is for energy, not weapons.

"I believe that we lost critical time in dealing with Iran because the White House chose to downplay the threats and chose to outsource the negotiations," Clinton said.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Iran
So why the fuck did we depose Iraq's secular leader, giving Iraq's Shiite majority (who occupy the part of Iraq with the most oil) the opportunity to ally themselves with the Mullah's to create the world's largest peroleum producer? Why did we not support the previous (secular) Iranian president, and why did we virtually ensure the current wacko's electoral victory by repeatedly proclaiming Iran as part of the 'axis of evil,' thereby silencing any pro-Western sentiment in Iran? Not the most subtle of diplomatic maneouvers.

Sure, there's a problem in Iran, but I think Georgie created it himself.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. what gives the US the right to demand anything from Iran? . . .
suppose Russia made the same demands of the United States . . . that we abandon all of our nuclear weapons . . . we have an insane leader too, ya know . . . but what would our response be? . . .
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well then Clinton and Bayh can just suit up. Take Lieberman
with them. They don't get my son, or my grandson.

Bloody hell. And some of you want us to support these people in this war without end. No way!
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. What valiant opportunism! What empty threats! Breathtaking.
As if Europe and China are really going to turn off 20 percent of their oil and natural gas on our account.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
5. Neither of these Senators will ever become President.
They will never be really accepted by their corporate masters - not the way real Republicans are. But, I suppose hope does spring eternal... Doesn't Clinton look great, rattling her sword and sounding just like a neocon?! Man she is such an inspiration!
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's the NEW FACE of the Dem Party! The "WAR PARTY." it's been going
on for a few weeks now. MSNBC actually had an interview with Dean about the Osama tape just a little while ago..and Dean said he was glad we got the 4 terrorists in the bombing and this is what we should be doing.

I know he was caught off guard...Dems aren't usually asked to comment about the tapes...so they must have rushed him on...but I wish he had said "alleged" killings of the terrorists in the bombing. And, had said something about the human rights violations of bombing innocent civilians as "collateral damage."

Still..I see this as the remaking of Dems into the War Party and haven't we been there and done that before...and how did it work for us. :shrug:
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
7. Hurry up before they trade oil in euros.
;-)
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renaldo Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Dollar v. Euro
Check this out. This is why BOTH parties will support war with Iran.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/petrov011606pv.html
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Interesting piece on the Bourse.
Thanks for posting it.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Makes a lot of sense. Wars have been fought for far less.
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 06:12 PM by leveymg
Extract:

In economic terms, (the Iranian oil bourse) represents a much greater threat to the hegemony of the dollar than Saddam's (demand for payment of Iraqi oil shipments in Euros), because it will allow anyone willing either to buy or to sell oil for Euro to transact on the exchange, thus circumventing the U.S. dollar altogether. If so, then it is likely that almost everyone will eagerly adopt this euro oil system:

The Europeans will not have to buy and hold dollars in order to secure their payment for oil, but would instead pay with their own currencies. The adoption of the euro for oil transactions will provide the European currency with a reserve status that will benefit the European at the expense of the Americans.
The Chinese and the Japanese will be especially eager to adopt the new exchange, because it will allow them to drastically lower their enormous dollar reserves and diversify with Euros, thus protecting themselves against the depreciation of the dollar. One portion of their dollars they will still want to hold onto; a second portion of their dollar holdings they may decide to dump outright; a third portion of their dollars they will decide to use up for future payments without replenishing those dollar holdings, but building up instead their euro reserves.
The Russians have inherent economic interest in adopting the Euro - the bulk of their trade is with European countries, with oil-exporting countries, with China, and with Japan. Adoption of the Euro will immediately take care of the first two blocs, and will over time facilitate trade with China and Japan. Also, the Russians seemingly detest holding depreciating dollars, for they have recently found a new religion with gold. Russians have also revived their nationalism, and if embracing the Euro will stab the Americans, they will gladly do it and smugly watch the Americans bleed.

The Arab oil-exporting countries will eagerly adopt the Euro as a means of diversifying against rising mountains of depreciating dollars. Just like the Russians, their trade is mostly with European countries, and therefore will prefer the European currency both for its stability and for avoiding currency risk, not to mention their jihad against the Infidel Enemy.
Only the British will find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They have had a strategic partnership with the U.S. forever, but have also had their natural pull from Europe. So far, they have had many reasons to stick with the winner. However, when they see their century-old partner falling, will they firmly stand behind him or will they deliver the coup de grace? Still, we should not forget that currently the two leading oil exchanges are the New York's NYMEX and the London's International Petroleum Exchange (IPE), even though both of them are effectively owned by the Americans. It seems more likely that the British will have to go down with the sinking ship, for otherwise they will be shooting themselves in the foot by hurting their own London IPE interests. It is here noteworthy that for all the rhetoric about the reasons for the surviving British Pound, the British most likely did not adopt the Euro namely because the Americans must have pressured them not to: otherwise the London IPE would have had to switch to Euros, thus mortally wounding the dollar and their strategic partner.

At any rate, no matter what the British decide, should the Iranian Oil Bourse accelerate, the interests that matter-those of Europeans, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, and Arabs-will eagerly adopt the Euro, thus sealing the fate of the dollar. Americans cannot allow this to happen, and if necessary, will use a vast array of strategies to halt or hobble the operation's exchange:

SNIP
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm so sick of these DLC members getting the spotlight!
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 03:47 PM by B Calm
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
11. And we should line up and vote for Hillary '08 why, exactly?
More war, death, destruction, while our economy goes in the tank, and democracy disappears out of sight. And people wonder why I'm going Green. It is exactly because of shit like this.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Give them guns and let those two fools serve.
They are so easy to throw other peoples kids into the fray. Why don't they do it themselves or better yet enlist their own kids first then ask them how quickly they want to start shooting at Iran.

It's fine and dandy as long as it's someone else's kid that gets shot up.

She is a colossal disappointment.
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