oh he is sorry so he gets no jail time!

[proud2BlibKansan]

Former Bush Adviser Gets Probation

By STEPHEN MANNING
Associated Press Writer

ROCKVILLE, Md.

A former White House adviser pleaded guilty to theft Friday, briefly breaking into tears as he tried to explain to a judge why he made phony returns at discount department stores while working as a top aide to President Bush.

"Something did go very wrong," Claude Allen said.

Allen, 45, pleaded guilty in Montgomery County Circuit Court to one misdemeanor count of theft under $500. He was sentenced to two years of supervised probation and ordered to pay a $500 fine.

Allen must also pay $850 in restitution to Target Corp. and perform 40 hours of community service.

In a short statement before he was sentenced, Allen, who made $160,000 a year as a domestic policy adviser, did not directly say why he made thousands of dollars worth of fraudulent returns to Target and other stores last year.

more . . .
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/04/D8J9Q9D80.html

[RebelOne]

1. I don't think that jail time is handed out for misdemeanors.

Just hefty fines.

[Hubert Flottz]

2. What did the folks in New Orleans get for stealing?

Some of those folks down there were starving and the Freepers wanted to shoot them...this guy was a fat cat and didn't need anything he was stealing and he gets nothing!

Katrina Looters Get 15 Year Sentences

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/015195.html

[pitohui]

17. that isn't new orleans

before linking to a story it's always well to actually read it

that occurred in kenner, louisiana (jefferson parish)

not in new orleans

looting is and should be a felony offense in any case, people who take advantage of natural disaster to enrich themselves should all be shot on sight as far as i'm concerned

as far as the bush advisor, it sounds like felony shoplifting to me (same as winona ryder) because of the amount of the fraud, but i would never believe that any shoplifting/refund fraud should get the same jail time as LOOTING

[Eric J in MN]

5. " he made thousands of dollars worth of fraudulent returns to Target "

...and other stores last year."

I don't want him in prison, but at least he should have a criminal record.

[me b zola]

20. That's how I remember the story, his theft was over a $1,000

...which would make it a felony.

Most regular Joes don't get plea deals like that, at least the ones with a public defender.

TWO AMERICAS

[warrens]

26. It has to be over $1000 at a time

He had a bunch of misdemeanors which he pled down. Happens all the time. This was fair enough; and he will have a criminal record.

[xmas74]

8. Depends on the offense and the judge.

I knew someone who received 5 days for stealing a sandwich from a gas station and a decent fine. And this was considered a misdemeaner.

Just depends on the judge most of the time.

[Mabus]

11. the difference btw a misdemeanor and a felony is the jail time

or, more specifically, it is the amount of jail time that is possible for a particular offense.

Less than one year = misdemeanor
One year or more = felony

[AndreaCG]

18. The difference is the POTENTIAL jail time

A misdemeanor cannot get more than one year. But you can get less than one year for a felony. For example, 5 years probation.

[Mabus]

19. Oh, I thought you had something to add

What's the difference between possibly being sentenced to X amount of time and potentially being sentenced to X amount of time? As I said earlier, the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony is the amount of time that one can be sentenced to according to the statute in question. The point is that the possible minimum sentence for a felony is one year. Yes, you can be convicted of a felony you can be incarcerated or placed on probation. What is at issue is the loss of liberty. If you're on probation your liberty is limited, therefore five years of probation is five years when you do not have your full liberty. You might be subject to random drug testing, you may have to check in with a parole officer, or, if they want, they can come search your house to make sure you aren't in possession of something you shouldn't have. There are other restrictions that may apply if you are on probation. For example, in some states you cannot vote until the court of jurisdiction, this is, the court in which you were convicted and sentenced has discharged you.

[AndreaCG]

21. The way you wrote it

Implied that there was a minimum of one year jail time for a felony. You said nothing about a lesser sentence like probation.

There was no need for you to be snide. You're just annoyed you were corrected.

[Mabus]

22. The query wasn't about sentencing, it was about a classification of charge

It was what is the distinction between a misdemeanor and a felony. I gave a correct answer. You interjected about sentencing. Your misunderstanding of the law, i.e., not understanding the difference between a type of charge and a sentence imposed by a judge, is on you. Anyone familiar with the law would know that the distinction between a charge and a sentence upon a conviction is as different as a monetary judgment and the amount that is ultimately paid by one party to another.

I wasn't being snarky. I was pointing out the distinction between what you offered as a comment and reality. When someone asks for a legal definition the last thing they need is someone without legal experience giving them advise as to what a term means. I have legal experience having graduated from an accredited law school. I also did a short stint as a criminal defense attorney so I believe that I have a very good understanding of the difference between a misdemeanor and a felony. I don't know what your legal expertise is but if you think that a sentence is determinative of whether your client has been charged with a misdemeanor or a felony than you're in the wrong line of business.

Btw, if you don't believe you can check out on-line legal dictionaries and find that I was in fact correct and your attempt to "clarify" the distinction was wrong. Because, charges like misdemeanors and felonies are based on the amount of time that you can possibly be sentenced under a particular statute.

I went ahead and found an on-line legal dictionary with the generally accepted definitions.

misdemeanor
n. a lesser crime punishable by a fine and/or county jail time for up to one year. Misdemeanors are distinguished from felonies, which can be punished by a state prison term. They are tried in the lowest local court such as municipal, police or justice courts. Typical misdemeanors include: petty theft, disturbing the peace, simple assault and battery, drunk driving without injury to others, drunkenness in public, various traffic violations, public nuisances and some crimes which can be charged either as a felony or misdemeanor depending on the circumstances and the discretion of the District Attorney. "High crimes and misdemeanors" referred to in the U.S. Constitution are felonies.
http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=1259&bold=||||

felony
n. 1) a crime sufficiently serious to be punishable by death or a term in state or federal prison, as distinguished from a misdemeanor which is only punishable by confinement to county or local jail and/or a fine. 2) a crime carrying a minimum term of one year or more in state prison, since a year or less can be served in county jail. However, a sentence upon conviction for a felony may sometimes be less than one year at the discretion of the judge and within limits set by statute. Felonies are sometimes referred to as "high crimes" as described in the U.S. Constitution.

http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=740&bold=||||

My definition, albeit simplistic, was correct. The distinction you tried to make was incorrect and misleading to anyone asking about the definition of a legal term. To refresh your memory I've reposted my original definition below.

or, more specifically, it is the amount of jail time that is possible for a particular offense.

Less than one year = misdemeanor
One year or more = felony

[Mabus]

24. I didn't expect an apology because you were wrong

and I was right. Yes, I implied that there was a minimum of one year in jail for a felony because that is the definition of a felony. I also implied, although you didn't mention it, that a misdemeanor is defined as a maximum of one year in jail. I said these things because they are true and correct statements of the law. If anyone has been snide it is you. In fact, for you to accuse me of being snide and then for you to erroneously state you were correcting me is intellectually dishonest. This is especially true in light of the proof that I have offered to demonstrate that I was correct. As you will recall I said that the definition of a felony was a minimum of one year jail time and that a misdemeanor was less than one year. These are textbook definitions of the difference between a felony and a misdemeanor.

I provided you with actual legal definitions showing that I was correct in my definitions of the words. I also provided you with personal information, i.e., I graduated from an accredited law school and I worked as a criminal defense attorney. You have failed to provide a basis of your knowledge (either by virtue of your education or experience) to explain how you came to your conclusions. I can only assume that your knowledge on the subject was derived from your misunderstanding of what you saw on television.

I don't call people names or accuse them of character/personality traits when I'm wrong. You called me snide. I think it is you who is annoyed. I think you are annoyed that you expressed an opinion based on your personal understanding which was incorrect. I'm asking you to apologize to me and to admit that it was you who was wrong. Again, I don't think I will get it because I don't think you are willing to admit that it was you who was wrong.

As to why I feel this is important enough to bring it to your attention: don't give out legal advise or interpretations of the law unless you have experience at it. Terms of art in any profession are just that, terms of art. They have specialized meanings. When someone, like you, decides that they will dispense legal advice, legal definitions or legal analysis you are doing a disservice to anyone who reads what you have written and relies on it as truth. Believe me it happens. You have a responsibility to others when you put out information concerning legal terms on public forums that the information you convey to be correct because others read it and rely on it to be true. At the very least you should have a factual basis for your conclusions. You gave out advise on a legal definition that was incorrect.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. and his fine is how many thousands of dollars?

[Pawel K]

3. honestly I think that is quite a punishment

2 years supervised probation is a long time.

[Eric J in MN]

7. 40 hours of community service isn't enough.

It should be at least 400 hours.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Tell that to a thief who didn't work for the BFEE

and ended up behind bars.

[atreides1]

16. Maybe

But if he stays clean for that time and does his community service, his record will be expunged.

Like it says here:
Allen could have been sentenced to 18 months in prison on the theft charge. Judge Eric Johnson, however, gave Allen probation before judgment, which means his record will be expunged after his probation is over.

ex·punged , ex·pung·ing , ex·pung·es
To erase or strike out: "I have corrected some factual slips, expunged some repetitions" (Kenneth Tynan).
To eliminate completely; annihilate

So there will be no record of him ever committing this crime.

I bet the people form Katrina don't have it so good!!!!

[Pawel K]

23. With all due respect I think you guys are looking at this wrong

You are simply looking at the fact that this guy is a bush supporter and should be burned. I look at the crime. I think 2 years supervised probation is a bitch for pretty much shop lifting. He will have to check in with a PO every day, probably won't be able to leave his house past a certain time (depending on his terms of probation), be subject to a drug test everey month (and as we know these guys are probably doped up with some serious drugs to believe what they believe), and deal with all kinds of other bullshit that if they don't do right can throw them in jail. Probation is no picnic, especially for a misdemenor.

[Ezlivin]

4. He's not the "real" criminal - it's his boss and the VP who are

I'll let this sorry excuse of a human being slide this time.

But all of his supervisors need prison time. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales need to appear before a war crimes tribunal.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

6. This Is Actually A Pretty Fair Sentence.

Most often there wouldn't even be community service. But because of the repeated manner in which the theft occurred and the higher value of items, that's probably why he received that as well. Most of the time first time theft offenders get just a fine and no mark on their record. But since he did it on multiple occasions they added on the probation and community service as well. Pretty fair sentence actually. I can't think of an instance ever for something like this where the perp would've gotten jail time.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. How often would a judge say something like this -

"You are a classic example ... of the fact that shame is not dead,"

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. Yeah But That's Just Grandstanding.

Judges always need to come up with a soundbite when they know they are sentencing someone with media interest. Generally for typical folk Judges barely address them in a personal preaching manner at all. They just say "850 dollar fine, 500 restitution, 40 hours community service. Next!" etc...

Course, I do agree with his soundbite.

[dogday]

9. Damn shame there are no laws for excessive greed

to me, this guy would fit the mold and should do the time.... Some people....

[Artdyst]

10. His punishment would seem more fair if average people got the same as

he did.

[Marr]

25. This story would've been huge if it were a Clinton aid.

[Catherine Vincent]

27. You're right! n/t