Why doth the Muslim rage?

[happydreams]

It's simple: many of them know, as do the many informed US citizens and the US Congress, that the US does not now and never has intended to establish a democracy in Iraq. The 14 permanent military bases being built in Iraq as mentioned by John Kerry in the 2004 debates and re-funded by the US Congress in June 2006 are proof that the US always intended to stay in Iraq permanently.
They know that fundamentally oil is what both of these conflicts (Israel&Iraq) are about. Israel which recieves about 1/3rd of US foreign aid is not just a lucky winner of a random drawing of straws. They are a forward base for the richest oil region in the world. This base is used to destablize the region for easier access to markets. This is a tactic employed by the US for over a century. Chaos capitalism is the name of the game. If humanitarian concerns were the litmus test for divvying up foreign aid Darfur, Indonesia and any number of other countries in dire straits would be higher up the list than Israel. Better yet we would take care of New Orleans if "taking care of America first" carried any weight.

The first Gulf War (Desert Storm)reinstalled the slave-holding Sabah's in Kuwait and called it liberation. This was a prelude to the present conflict. Saddam Hussein was provoked by Kuwait stealing oil by slant drilling into the Rumailiah oil field that was 95% in Iraq. When Hussein lodged complaints with the UN and then confronted US Ambassador April Glaspie with the matter she replied: "We have no opinion on Arab border disputes". Saddam, as most of us know, was "our son-of-a-bitch" all through the 80's.

Rumailiah, the largest single deposit of oil in the world, was the prize the Bushies recieved for their efforts. After Desert Storm the Kuwait border was moved over so Rumailiah was 50% in Kuwait. The Muslim world knows this, they know that the ultimate goal of the Bush corporate predator fascists is to takeover the Mid-East! Thus they rage and do "crazy" things.

[ShortnFiery]

1. I take that as an INSULT, please consider re-wording

"Muslim Rage" ? No, the Middle Eastern people have a different culture from our own.

To label their values and beliefs as "Rage" is an insult and reveals our profound ignorance of their proud history.

On edit: Many of us good MeriKKKans would RAGE had we had our homes blown up and our closest relatives killed before our eyes.

Their anger and acting out is NORMAL given the fact that many of those who live in abject poverty have "nothing to lose."

They are no less human beings than we are ... however, when placed under stress and horrific living conditions, "They do, what they have to do." :(

[mike_c]

2. with respect, I think you misread the intent of the OP....

eom

[ShortnFiery]

5. I received the underlying intent ...

However, the OP could have made his point without coining the term "Muslim Rage."

Perhaps many IMO racist analogies of "an entire peoples" (Muslim Rage) can be categorized as "AMERICAN Empiric Arrogance"?

[xchrom]

3. normally i agree with much of what you say.

not in this case.

read what is said.

[ShortnFiery]

7. I concur with the meaning ... basic analysis of the OP ...

I'm only suggesting that we refrain from using heated phrases (Muslim Rage) to pigeonhole an entire class of people. The basic points are valid without the hyped-label.

[xchrom]

14. i understand what you're saying -- but i clicked on this

because of the title.

[ShortnFiery]

16. It does have a draw ... yes, everything must have something to

get our attention. Yeah, just hope the MorAns don't overuse it. ;)

I will not HATE an entire group of people.

I have no friends or relatives from the Middle East and that's why I only can watch in shock and disbelief at the cycle of HATE.

It's tragic and must change.

[xchrom]

18. i can't disagree with that.

[happydreams]

4. delete

[Robbien]

6. I believe that is the point

What the US is doing is monsterous but the media presents any opposition as Muslim Rage.

It is insulting, but it is what is believed by the Fauxnews public. Lumping everything and everyone together as Muslim and labeling it as Rage is their tactic.

[happydreams]

8. Exactly, it was a takeoff on "Why doth the heathen rage".

and my intent was to get people to walk in a Muslims shoes (or sandals, hee) for awhile.

[ShortnFiery]

9. Well, that you did!

And you wrote a laudable commentary.

Guess it's just the LABEL "Rage" that I fear will help Faux News crowd to consider Muslims LESS THAN 100% human beings.

But Again, the narrative was excellent, IMO, save for the label, "Muslim Rage."

Best to you. :hi:

On Edit: I kind of NOW understand your literary point. :blush: I only worry what the Right Wing Kool-Aid drinkers would use to justify killing some more in the ME and it frightens me. Point understood. ;)

[happydreams]

10. Glad you took another look.

I won't use ((("fiery"))) any more either. :toast:

[ShortnFiery]

11. You're The Genuine Article! I'll give you that one. :-)

:applause: :hi:

[FlavaKreemSnak]

23. Do you think that is harder for Americans than other people?

I am asking because I keep thinking the same thing, how would it be if another bigger country was bombing America and occupying it? Would a lot of Americans be grateful like it seems like we want the Iraqis, Lebanese, etc to be?

But you have to be very careful saying something like that, because people will call you a terrorist sympathizer, so I think it is a cycle. Even the people who would like to try to put themselves in the place of somebody in those countries will not get a very good reaction if they talk about it, so I wonder how many Americans secretly do think about walking in the Muslim's shoes but keep that kind of thinking to themselves to avoid problems.

[cigsandcoffee]

12. The 9-11 hijackers were all very comfortable financially.

Poverty is not really the motivator, IMO.

[ShortnFiery]

13. Depends on the situation ...

And we really should find out why four to five of them are still wandering around Europe, for Heaven's sake! :P

Our Plane Flyin', Phone Book Listed, imported 9/11 suicide bombing terrorists are way way WAY different from those within the Middle East.

[cigsandcoffee]

17. What situations does it depend on?

Centuries ago, Muslims had the dominant culture in the world. They conquered countries and territory from the "barbarian indfidels,' making it all the way to Vienna on at least one occasion. They possessed much of the world's knowledge, and even managed to get India's numeric system named after themselves while spreading it to Europe.

But at some point they dropped the ball, and the Western scientific knowledge soared while their own remained constant. As a result, the "Christian barbarians" were soon the more dominant force, and drove the Muslim empires backward.

Some argue that the aggression we are seeing now is an attempt to reclaim some of the lost glories of their earlier empires, and a quest to determine what went wrong in their culture to allow the infidels to so upset the Muslim dominance the world had known. I tend to agree with them.

Poverty hasn't a thing to do with it. That may make some of the foot soldiers more easy to exploit, but it isn't the reason Muslims might "rage."

[ShortnFiery]

19. Look into the faces of the crowds in Iraq and Lebanon

POVERTY has a profound role ... it plays well into desperation and lack of hope for the future.

:wtf: does "dropped the ball" mean? This is not "The Great Crusades II" but THE 21ST CENTURY where this killing and pillaging B.S. will destroy the planet!

Sure, the leaders are well off and highly educated, but the foot soldier insurgent has seen his family members killed by his enemy and lives in poverty.

Beware of "the masses" who have little to lose.

BTW bombing the shit out of Lebanon's infrastructure is throwing the poor and disenfranchised Lebanese people into the arms of Hezbollah.

Mission Accomplished Israel. :(

[cigsandcoffee]

20. The Crusades were a failed response...

...to the Muslim conquest of Spain, Portugal, the invasion of France, and the sacking of Rome. At that time, there was no culture able to directly compete with the Muslims (with the exception of China, but they were introverted).

I think you are confusing the motivations behind the LA riots with a proud but failed Muslim Empire that can only look to its dominant roots and now wonder "what went wrong?"

Much more than us, the people of those lands identify with history and past glories. Many of them are raging to see just how far behind their culture has fallen, and much of the new aggression is an attempt to right those wrongs and drive the "infidels" backward once again.

Not only are you radically oversimplifying the problem by saying it is rooted in poverty, it's just plain inaccurate.

[ShortnFiery]

21. When I look into their faces, I see very little having to do

with the history lesson you outlined above.

They are PEOPLE who are trying to survive and care for their families from day to day. It cracks me up in a bizarro way that you would like to tag on a more sinister motive for such anger as IMO, it's a natural reaction to being oppressed and living in abject poverty for decades (Palestinians).

Look deeply into the eyes of a man carrying his dead child, all I see is despair. The *rage* that will evolve from this is a NATURAL HUMAN reaction while dealing with grief.

Nope, only the leaders have a true grasp of "the glory Muslim days" while the others who live in destitute poverty, just want care for their family.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs haven't evolved beyond THE BASE ... not at all to the tip of the Pyramid ... to such "reflective moments of Muslim History" by the vast majority of Palestinians on the Gaza Strip. :shrug:

[cigsandcoffee]

22. The people you are talking about are being exploited....

...by the folks who are more concerned with the history I am referring to - people like the mullahs in Iran, or the financiers of Al Qaeda and Hezbollah.

For instance, do you see innocence and desperation in the face of a poor child wearing a swastika at a KKK rally in rural Alabama? Or do you see a young person that has been exploited in to becoming a footsoldier by the hatred and sick desires of those charged with their care? They may even be told of a world that was wonderful before the Jews, blacks and Catholics invaded and ruined it, and hope to fight to regain it.

You have dramatically oversimplified this conflict by saying that it is a matter of poverty. If it's something you really want to see solved, you'd better look for deeper answers than that.

[ShortnFiery]

26. Holy SHIT! Are you comparing some Muslims to the KKK?

:wtf: is wrong with such insane logic --> EVERYTHING! ... no "those little brown" Muslims are NO LESS HUMAN than your or me.

This is beautiful B.S. trying via AEI argument to weave a master plan how their civilization is so much more SAVAGE than ours.

We just don't see the bodies blown into confetti with the convenience of our "smart bombs."

No, this is Propaganda meant to make the USA Populace believe WE are somehow superior to the Arabs and Persians.

It don't work on me and an increasing number of other ENLIGHTENED Americans.

You don't want to ADMIT that POVERTY plays a large role because that would mean that you'd have to "give a damn" about the plight of the Muslims in the Middle East. Yes, you'd actually would have to get out in THEIR public and do some humanitarian programs.

But it's so much more entertaining for the rulers that us "little people" on both sides continue to hate each other. After all, the War Profiteering is endless: Blow shit up then build shit up for perpetual waring. :puke:

[Oversea Visitor]

24. Would the word "hate" sounds better

Rage is an understatements

I know

I live in a muslim country.

[happydreams]

15. Talk about a coincidence in time.

Michel Chossudovsky and I are on the same page.

I saw this after I posted this topic:

The bombing of Lebanon is part of a carefully planned and coordinated military road map. The extension of the war into Syria and Iran has already been contemplated by US and Israeli military planners. This broader military agenda is intimately related to strategic oil and oil pipelines. It is supported by the Western oil giants which control the pipeline corridors. In the context of the war on Lebanon, it seeks Israeli territorial control over the East Mediterranean coastline.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1823332

[Igel]

25. They agree with you to a large extent.

The motivations you ascribe are strictly Western, dissing the very idea of cultural differences. But that's a common ethnocentric failing, one that many Middle Easterners are keen on.

America's just about the oil. Israel is all about grabbing land in a Zionist conspiracy to dominate Muslims. Etc., etc. It all pretty much makes sense, without any reinterpretation. They're sentient. Listen to what they say among themselves. And try to understand. Don't translate the thinking to what you're comfortable with.

There are a number of different reasons for the various sorts of "Muslim rage". Secular Muslims have one set of reasons; religious Muslims (by sect) have a different set of reasons. But they're still Muslims by culture, and share much of their underlying philosophy, even with the Arab Xians. That does not derive from Greece, from Rome, from the Enlightenment. Oddly, a European man from 1000 AD would have had a much easier time understanding them.

It explains why having Syria kill many thousands of Arabs in a month provoked no outcry, but having Israel kill 1000 does. Why Darfur isn't a huge problem, but the discussion of Western UN peacekeepers provoked demonstrations in Khartoum to keep out the Westerners--all the while Sudan's a good, shari'a implementing state. It explains why there were demonstrations in Bombay and Beirut over cartoons, while overlooking those that kill kids in Allah's name. Why most of the Arab world believes Arabs cannot be behind 9/11, and yet feel slighted by not having the latest technology or the top universities. The data are there. It's absurdly consistent.

[happydreams]

27. Did somebody spike the punch?

Or did this topic crosslink with another one?