Lebanon refuses UN cease fire plan.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060806/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_lebanon_2

BEIRUT, Lebanon - The Lebanese parliamentary speaker, a prominent Shiite who has been negotiating on behalf of Hezbollah, rejected the U.S.-French draft U.N. cease-fire resolution on Sunday because it did not include the government's plan for ending the fighting.

Nabih Berri said Lebanon would not accept any terms that did not include a government plan calling for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal of Israeli troops.

"Lebanon, all of Lebanon, rejects any talks or any draft resolution that does not include the seven-point government framework," Berri said at a news conference in Beirut.

The central demand of the U.S.-French plan, agreed to after days of difficult negotiations, is "a full cessation of hostilities" under which Hezbollah must stop all attacks, and Israel must stop all offensive attacks. That's a victory for Israel because its military is not prohibited from defensive operations, a term that can be interpreted broadly.

While the draft seeks the "unconditional release" of the two Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah, it is weaker on Lebanese prisoners held by Israel. It only encourages efforts "aimed at settling the issue" of those prisoners. Lebanon had wanted those prisoners released, or for the U.N. to arrange a prisoner swap.



The "plan" is full of holes. All of them allowing continued Israili occupation and "defensive" activities similar to the ones now being taken in Beirut and Cana.

The Lebanese aren't buying the U.S./French engineered resolution for good reason.

[The Magistrate]

1. This Is A Mistake, Sir

It is always best to leave the rejection to some other party; there is almost sure to be one. The proper course is to accept and follow up with quibbles. The goal is to achieve as quickly as possible a situation in which the other side can be accused of violating the thing.

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[tocqueville]

2. I think that Lebanon "is playing the game"

they just want a couple of concessions - that's all - to they speak out loud. Douste-Blazy will soon fly to Beirut and "convince" them. That will put Israel in a very difficult situation, since Peres said today that he doesn't see any cease-fire before weeks ahead. I hope it's not true because Lebanon is on the verge of total collapse and the humanitarian catastrophy that would follow wouldn't be "good" for anybody, speaking of "images". Lebanon would become the absolute martyr and Israel the absolute executioner. I can tell you that in Europe it's the picture already. People gather humanitarian stuff and send it to Lebanon, Israel has only the support of the Jewish communities.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. You mean like the Czech's did after Munich?

As I recall, it didn't do them much good to rely on 3rd parties to reject the proposals. They did follow up with "quibbles" and the "other side" was accused of violating the agreement. 6 years later the Germans who were "protecting" them from the "Jewish/Bolshevik" menace were finally kicked out.

Apparantly, the Lebanese are all too aware of 3rd party success in molding the the nations of the Middle East.

[tocqueville]

4. the Lebanon Government is making a lot of noise

that's all, only to remind that they still exist. The real negotiating part is the Hezbollah. The Hezbollah accepted an immediate cease-fire yesterday on condition that the Israeli leave the south. Since the Israeli presence in the south is limited and a formal retreat can be achieved in one day, it's not a very big demand. It's only a question of propaganda from both sides.

[bemildred]

7. To be fair Sir, I did read some Lebanese UN diplomat following

your correct procedure, but he was quickly drowned out. It did not appear difficult to me, in any case, to find quibbles and violations of the proposed resolution to fit any desire, as it seems a tissue of fantasies. I suppose that is what one would expect, given the method of its creation.

This would seem like a good time to recall our earlier speculations about the tendencies of wars to soon escape the control of those who perpetrate them. I think we are near if not past that point now. One is tempted to tend ones garden, and yet feels compelled to watch.

[The Magistrate]

13. Indeed, My Friend

If my impression is correct, the fellow quoted above is a Hezbollah man, and this allows at least some question concerning which hat he is wearing when he speaks. It does seem clear this resolution is, as you observe, a species of pious noise. The great issue remains who will bell Hezbollah to Israel's satisfaction, closely followed by who besides Israel would particularly want to, or feel they ought to at great risk to their own forces, Bringing up the rear are why should Hezbollah agree to actually halt when Israel is doing itself fresh harm on the grand scale every day far beyond anything Hezbollah could inflict materially by its armaments, and what it is that will make the government of Mr. Olmert feel it can face its voters with a straight face to say, "We did pretty good, my fellow citizens!" Regrettably, the government of Lebanon is and will remain pretty much a bystander, but that is simply the revelation of the actual fact that it is a good deal more of a costume show than a real government in any case: as Clauswitz said, though in a somewhat different connection, "Battle creates clarity," and in this regard it certainly has.

[bemildred]

14. A nice summary, Sir.

:thumbsup:

[chimpymustgo]

5. The Lebanese are not buying the US-Israeli bullshit.

Good grief.

[Karmakaze]

6. LOL gotta love it

They make it sound like Lebanon are being intractable and trying to extend the war, yet we read that the "ceasefire plan" doesnt include a ceasefire! Well, not until all of Israel's demands are met.

So basically the ceasefire plan is also Israel's stated war plan - continue bombing until Hizbullah stops fighting back AND the soldiers are released, acompanied by some vague language regarding Lebanon's grievances.

Utter bullshit that Lebanon has rejected a ceasefire plan - Lebanon's plan IS a ceasefire plan, while the US/France proposal is nothing but a dressed up Israeli war plan.

[Igel]

8. "Defensive" would not be interpreted so broadly.

That's a non-starter. If attacked, Israel would be allowed to attack; but engaging in pro-active "defense" wouldn't be tolerated by anybody.

In any event, Berri, of Amal fame (and who was a de facto Hezb supporter last winter, mind you--he picked Hezb over the Lebanese government) is continuing to support Hezb.

Hezb foisted its requirements on Lebanon. And Berri is Nasrallah's tool, standing up for Nasrallah. I note that the international requirement is now diluted: Disarming Hezb isn't even a requirement any more. But all of Hezbollah's demands must be met.

They have the idea of dialectics down pat, and how to use them: thesis + antithesis --> synthesis, serving as new thesis. Iterate. But the antithesis is always the same (it's called being 'inflexible' or 'a wily negotiator'), or isn't the *real* antithesis, but the antithesis plus some sheddable material. Eventually the thesis and antithesis are identical (Zeno's paradox not being applicable in a coarsely granular universe).

And then somebody cuts through a neighboring country to attack where defenses are weak.

[mmonk]

9. They need to accept this

and petition separately for release of the Lebanese. I know, easy for me to say, but they need to take into account the violence that continues to threaten their citizens. They aren't in a position of strength right now.

[cali]

10. Does anyone have any idea

how many Lebanese prisoners Israel is holding? Or a reputable, non-partisan site to use to find such a thing out?

[mmonk]

11. I remember reading something that had a figure

but I can't remember so I defer.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. A stupid question - is the draft proposal available to us mere mortals?

Or do we have to try to understand it from the scraps we heaqr about it when one party or another praises/rejects it?

If anyone has a link to the actual proposal, I'd be very grateful.

On edit: I found it: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5249488.stm