David Byrne on Jesus Camps: like Madrassas, with less literacy

[BlueEyedSon]

David Byrne on "Jesus Camp," a new documentary film about the indoctrination of young Americans into an intensely politicized form of evangelical Christianity.



There were some perfect sound bites — at one point Pastor Fischer instructs the little ones that they should be willing to die for Christ, and the little ones obediently agree. She may even use the word martyr, which has a shocking echo in the Middle East. I can see future suicide bombers for Jesus — the next step will be learning to fly planes into buildings. Of course, the grownups would say, “Oh no, we’re not like them” — but they admit that the principal difference is simply that “We’re right.”

In another scene a cardboard cutout of George W. Bush, with his trademark smirking smile, is brought out and the children are urged to identify — many of the little ones come forward and reverently touch his cardboard hands.

I kept saying to myself, “O.K., these are the Christian version of the Madrassas (those Islamic religious instructional schools in Pakistan and elsewhere, often financed by Saudi oil money)...so both sides are pretty much equally sick, there’s a balance." (Although it must be said the Madrassas provide some regular education and literacy where no other option is available, they do community work that is non-religious...and they take in aimless troubled youth.)

More: http://journal.davidbyrne.com/2006/08/american_madras.html

Found on boingboing.net

[Mabus]

1. K&R

Radical clerics from all religions are not to be trusted.

[greiner3]

18. Now why did you have to go and add 'radical?'

edit for stupidity
this could go on forever!

[acmavm]

2. I've always been a BIG fan of David Byrne. His music was incredibly

intelligent and it is easy to tell that he's a Zappa-like kinda guy. Smart, funny, full of integrity and not afraid to speak his mind.

[nyrnyr1994]

3. Kicked and Recommended here too

Going to look for this movie when it's available.

"And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right? ...am I wrong?
And you may tell yourself
My god!...what have I done?"

-- "Once in a Lifetime"

[gorbal]

12. See "Saved"

I really thought "Saved" was hilarious. It's a fictionalized take on teens that attend a christian school. Their whole lived revolve around christianity, and it's like they live in a whole other dimension of reality than we do. A dimension kinda like this one, but not quite.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

17. That movie had one of the funniest scenes I've enjoyed in years.

A cynical girl at the Christian school begins to speak in tongues...everyone is thrilled until they start realizing what she's actually yelling.

Enough spoiler, that is a great movie! MKJ

[nyrnyr1994]

33. Who's down with the G-O-D?

n/t

[mtnester]

28. God I wish they would tour again

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines
I know that ain't allowed

[MrPrax]

4. I often wonder if...

there is a jealous resentment by Christians towards Islam. To be a follower of Islam, you have to be observant of certain day to day rules, that go a long way to building the faith and the community. Scholarship is one thing common to Islam and Judeaism, but is usually elite and restrictive in Christianity.

In fact, Christians have generally abandoned most of their practices and principles; for instance, Islam still pays lip service to the sin of usury, while it doesn't even show up on the Christian radar, while very modern political issues consistently wear Christian religious clothing, when it is not really even supported in Scriptures.

Let's face it -- you can be a loud and proud Christian with little more than getting a bag of cheetos, a remote control and a Sunday morning

[KittyWampus]

7. These Psuedo-Christians Suffer A Complete Lack Of Faith.

Their Spiritual Self is totally stunted. And so they use outward, physical proclaimations and deeds to try and fill their Inner Void.

And of course, no matter how many 10 Commandments you post, picket at a women's health clinic or rally for prayer in school... you will never EVER fill your Inner Void.

And so these people go to ever more extremes trying to fill their Inner Void by forcing others to mouth their same platitudes and act according to their strictures.

One's Spiritual Life, must be attended to as a private matter. It isn't political nor does it require forcing any other human to change.

Basically, these psuedo-Christians are Materialists using a primitive core Philosophy masked with a more evolved Spiritual vocabulary.

[Maraya1969]

8. You make very good points. I am a recovering something like that

and it seems like what motivated ME most was FEAR. We passed out pamphlets with cartoons depicting people burning in Hell fires. That is not faith to me today.

It was very hard to get out. For me moving away and ending up in AA did the trick.

Do you know some of these people actually have their own Alcoholics Anonymous? They aways have to separate themselves. They use the same 12 steps and other concepts but they "Higher Power" becomes Jesus and somehow the Bible is incorporated.

Why all the need for separation? One word comes to my mind....CULT.

[Totally Committed]

5. I have always seen these camps (and even some of the

Evangelical Churches) as Christian Madrassas.

David Byrne has always been such an intelligent artist.

TC

[MountainLaurel]

6. Can't wait to see this movie

Being a survivor of a fundamentalist childhood (the one saving grace was that my parents didn't go to church). I got quite the jolt yesterday when looking up my old church online. Apparently, their teen group is called IMPACT: Impacting & Motivating a Powerful Army of Christian Teens.

Army?

:scared:

[kineneb]

9. "Onward Christian soldiers"...

Marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus
Going on before.
Christ, the royal Master,
Leads against the foe;
Forward into battle,
See His banners go.

words: Sabine Baring-Gould
music: Arthur Sullivan (of G&S fame)

Nothing new under the sun...

music history geek /off

[AnnieBW]

10. Wow, Have Christian Camps Changed!

When I was growing up, I went to a Presbyterian summer camp, even though I was Catholic. My best friend at the time was going, and I went with her. It was called "Summer's Best Two Weeks". It was focused on "I'm Third" - putting God first, others second, and yourself third. I went there for about six years, and was a counselor for one. When I was a counselor, they paired me up with a new girl as a senior counselor, who one would consider to be a "Fundie" these days. She got in trouble for teaching our fifth-grade girls about "fornication" while we were teaching Bible study. (The senior counselor always taught Bible study, so I really couldn't do much about it.) She was definitely a few fries short of a happy meal, and the folks that ran the camp figured it out too late. They pulled us both out of the cabin, sent her packing, and stuck me on kitchen duty for the rest of the summer, even though it wasn't my fault. It's one of the reasons why I'm now a Pagan, and have a burning dislike of Fundamentalist Christians.

[glitch]

11. Thanks for this link, it led me to David Byrne Radio (mp3 stream)

Good listening http://davidbyrne.com/radio/index.php

[The River]

13. From an old Phil Ochs song

titled "The Cannons of Christianity"

Christian cannons have fired at my days
With the warning beneath the holy blaze
And bow to our authority
Say the cannons of christianity

Oh the children will be sent to schools
Minds of clay are molded to their rules
Learn to fear all of eternity
Warn the cannons of christianity

Come the wars and turn the rules around
To bend your soul on the battle ground
And the lord will march beside me
Drone the cannons of christianity


Religion Inc. - Controlling Humanity since 4000 BC

[Nikki Stone 1]

14. The similarities with Islamofascism are not coincidental

Religion is the opiate of the masses, especially after all their community assets have been looted and their infrastructure destroyed.

[blogslut]

15. Everybody's trying

to get to the bar...

Go Dave. :)

[GOPFighter]

16. Fundies are scared, insecure people....

...who are scared to death of sex, sexuality, and pleasure. I spent my childhood in a fundy church and it took years to overcome it and judge people on how they treated others, not how pious they are.

[NoSheep]

19. C-U-L-T

[Don Claybrook]

22. There's a difference between a cult and a religion, you know

"The only difference between a cult and a religion is the amount of real estate they own."
-Frank Zappa

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57622

[orleans]

25. hahaha

god, i really miss him

every once in awhile i wonder what frank would have to say about this or that--i really miss his creative/political take on life....john lennon too but i was a bigger zappa fan

[NoSheep]

30. What a genius, Zappa.

[formercia]

20. It made me think of the Childrens' Crusade.

The ones that didn't drown on their way were mostly sold into slavery.

[CatholicEdHead]

21. Camp shown is in Devils Lake, North Dakota

Ironic or what?

[RamboLiberal]

23. K&R - Not ony like the Madrassas - they also remind me

of the Hitler Youth. I hope many of these kids will eventually figure out the hypocrisy and rebel for themselves. What scares me about the fundies is how they use home and christian schooling and now even their own communities to isolate their kids.

It was very much the outer community, reading and listening to music and TV, the questioning times of the 60/70's that changed me from the racism of my father and the narrow teachings of the Catholic church/schools.

[readmoreoften]

24. Any info on when the movie is coming out on DVD? /nt

[orleans]

26. k&r--it's some spooky shit n/t

[mogster]

27. David Byrne has done deft comparisons before

In 1981, when the madness that is Evangelism took off (and the revolution in Iran was at it's height), he and Brian Eno sampled (taped) both US radio evangelicals and tunes from the East, and compiled an album called 'My Life In the Bush of Ghosts', all funked up by very good musicians. In Jezebel Spirit, a live exorcism is sampled and underlayed with a driving beat.
Funky stuff, in all senses of the term!

Maybe today they would've called that album My Life With the Ghost of Bush ...

[klook]

35. Thanks for the link

I see that the original tracks from "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts" are now available for download by mixologists. Could be fun.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

29. Waiting for the fundy crypto-apologists to show up.

You know the type. "It's private money, what's wrong with that, leave them alone."

[BlueEyedSon]

31. You could make the same "apology" for the Madrassas too

[klook]

32. Touched by his cardboardy appendage

Wow, that's scary. And Byrne makes a good point, that megachurches contribute to Columbine-like toxicity. "...they allow the mind to be pleasantly emptied." And unfortunately, real Christians (meaning those who actually try to follow Christ's example) often are overshadowed by these fascistic pseudo-Christians.

[BlueEyedSon]

34. Vanity Vonnegut Kurt Kick!