Who here can't look at the threads with pics of the hurt children?

[halobeam]

I am so scared to look. I've been here on DU for a while now, and I have never clicked on one of those threads. It almost feels like self--preservation. I don't think I can handle it. I came out of a severe depression right before 9/11.. It had lasted two years. I was always so idealistic and positive when I was younger, and life had thrown me some doosies. Big gulp doses of reality back then, and look at what the world is like now. I am careful as to turn off the comp/ and the tv when I find myself feeling a little hopeless, and I also turn my hopelessness into a positive action and try to make a difference by donating when possible, and taking actions that may help out. But the threads that remain unopened are the ones that lurk in my mind at times, and I find it so mind blowing .. just the concept of taking someone's life at all is so all together "MAD"....

I wonder, is it me that just can't bare it, or are there some of you who feel similarly?

[NMDemDist2]

1. i saw enough when the Iraq war started, but I still see them on FSTV

on Democracy Now!

[dorktv]

2. I hate looking at people who are actually hurt because it makes me sad.

[halobeam]

5. It is very sad indeed.

I understand it is important to see truth, and it can cause more outrage and outspokeness, so desparately needed. I guess that's one reason to see it for what it truly is. I just can't get myself to do it.

[dorktv]

I have an imagination...I do not need to see the real thing.

I had a discussion with someone from Europe right after 9/11 and I was steaming for revenge. The person said "how can you want this...do you not know what will happen?"

I said "yes, babies will be killed, mothers will be slaughtered by accident, dads will not see their little girls grow up, people will lose limbs, eyes, and will have no food or shelter...but I still want revenge for the same thing that happened to us." Although I was a lot more graphic.


He was shocked that I was so brutally honest for my desire for revenge despite knowing what would happen.

Knowing what I know now though, I think that a much more measured response is needed but then I was not in charge of anything so I did not have to be measured.

[halobeam]

43. I'm in NY.... lost people that day.... like many others did...

I can relate. But whomever you spoke with, they were right. Your feelings are so understandable.

[dorktv]

63. I am pretty sure if I had been President my views would have been a bit

different.

[acmavm]

3. They're horrible, truly horrible. But you know what? More damn

Americans need to have these pictures rubbed in their faces. Let them know what kind of criminality the are supporting.

It's easy to pretend that the 'mission' is righteous and that the soldiers are liberating people as long as you don't have to see what is really being done to the people.

The pictures of My Lai had a LOT to do with the end of the Viet Nam war.

[halobeam]

6. Thank you, yes... in my second post, I tried to see what people

could gain from this.

[w8liftinglady]

12. you make a good point.The mainstream needs to know how much

suffering this war has caused to the Iraqis...and the American soldiers and their families.

[halobeam]

45. Not even showing the coffins of our soldiers coming home....

screams neglect and disrespect. Reminds me of how I despise Barbara Bush. The bitch.

[w8liftinglady]

4. me.as an ICU nurse-i saw plenty of hurt children.

that someone would intentially target civilians is an abomination.The weakest are always the greatest victims of violence.

[halobeam]

10. I spent a month at Boston Childrens Hosp. with my infant son in ICU

I saw a lot there. Maybe there is a connection there that I was unaware of. Something else to think about... thanks for your input.

[w8liftinglady]

14. bless you,honey..as a mom-I feel for these moms

[halobeam]

46. thanks, my son came home...many others weren't as lucky.

I think of them all, often.

[MissWaverly]

7. Do what you can, if you can't look, don't

heck, contribute to Ned Lamont, he's against the war, find anti-war candidates and support them,
go and donate to Lebanon and the Red Cross there, you can go to the Lebanese embassy site,
they recommend giving to the Red Cross or they have a list of needed items and ways to donate
money.

[halobeam]

13. Actually, just wrote check to Lamont. hmmm how about that.,

[MissWaverly]

17. that's good, find out what your strong points are and go with them

I feel good knowing that I sent money to the Red Cross for Lebanon, I can't make policy but
if my money provides one child a blanket, it's worth it.

[halobeam]

51. but you made your own policy by doing what you can,

and IMO, it's a good one.

[MissWaverly]

54. Thanks, I really wanted to show that we Americans do care

about them, I hope that others help as well. Somehow, things have gotten twisted around in this
country. We did not go to fight Hitler over oil, we did not go to Korea or Vietnam for oil.
We are not a viking horde looking for plunder. The American people honestly thought we were
going to Iraq to help them but I don't think that's what the outcome was. And now we are
making chemical weapons that have been banned by the UN, when did all this start. How do we
get back to the right track. I wish I knew.

[Skittles]

8. I can't

I fear I am a coward but I can't

[halobeam]

15. I don't think it's cowardly. I think there are other reasons...

if you realize that I have already learned one that I was unaware of right here on this thread, you may find something that may help you better define why you don't/can't look, too. I doubt cowardly is one of them. Don't underestimate yourself.:pals:

[Skittles]

22. thanks

I cannot bring myself to even read about Darfur, for example, so I do the next best thing - send money to Doctors Without Borders, people who CAN be involved......

[halobeam]

47. excellent donation, btw...

what incredible people there are in this world.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

9. They Disturb Me To No End. They Make Me Scream Out And Want To

just scream in the streets "We have to stop this!". I feel so helpless when I see those pictures. I want to do anything to make it stop.

I try and avoid them whenever possible, but there are times I have to force myself to look.


On edit: I put "disturbed me to KNOW end" in the title? Seriously? I put know instead of no? What the fuck is wrong with me. Jesus LOL

[halobeam]

18. Honest question, why do you force yourself at times, as you say...

do you find you take more action by doing so? How do you handle it?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. Because Sometimes I Have To Allow Myself To Feel Truth As Truth.

It hurts though, deeply. But I have the strength to handle anything.

[halobeam]

48. I'm working on that.... I'm very much on the way....

I guess first knowing what I can handle is a good step... then digging deeper as to why I can't handle something (or don't think I can) is the next part of my journey. Hence, this thread.

Thanks so much for your input.

[whistle]

11. These photos might ease your conscience....

<snip>
Child Labor in America

As early as the 1830s, many U.S. states had enacted laws restricting or prohibiting the employment of young children in industrial settings. However, in rural communities where child labor on the farm was common, employment of children in mills and factories did not arouse much concern. Another problem for children was the popular opinion that gainful employment of children of the "lower orders" actually benefited poor families and the community at large.

Entire families were hired, the men for heavy labor and the women and children for lighter work. Work days typically ran from dawn to sunset, with longer hours in winter, resulting in a 68-72 hour workweek. Many families also lived in company owned houses in company owned villages and were often paid with overpriced goods from the company store. Thus they lived a life entirely dominated by their employers.

By the late 1800s, states and territories had passes over 1,600 laws regulating work conditions and limiting or forbidding child labor. In many cases the laws did not apply to immigrants, thus they were often exploited and wound up living in slums working long hours for little pay.

Throughout America, local child labor laws were often ignored. On a national level, progress to protect children stalled as the U.S. Supreme Court ruled several times that child labor laws under question were unconstitutional. A subsequent attempt to pass an amendment to the U.S. Constitution failed.

In 1904, the National Child Labor Committee was organized by socially concerned citizens and politicians, and was chartered by Congress in 1907. From 1908 to 1912, photographer Hine documented numerous gross violations of laws protecting young children. At many of the locations he visited, youngsters were quickly rushed out of his sight. He was also told youngsters in the mill or factory had just stopped by for a visit or were helping their mothers.

Attempts at child labor reform continued, aided by the widespread publicity from Hine's photographs. As a result, many states passed stricter laws banning the employment of underage children. In 1938, Congress passed the Fair Labor Standards Act, better known as the Federal Wage and Hour Law. The Act was declared constitutional in 1941 by the U.S. Supreme Court.

The Act set a work week of 40 hours, with a minimum wage of 40 cents per hour. It prohibited child labor under age 16 while allowing minors 16 and over to work in non-hazardous occupations. The Act set 18 as the minimum age for work in industries classified as hazardous. No minimum age was set for non-hazardous agricultural employment after school hours and during vacations. Children aged 14 and 15 could be employed in non-manufacturing, non-mining, and non-hazardous occupations outside of school hours and during vacations for limited hours.

Child Labor Today

According to recent global estimates by the International Labor Office, the number of working children aged 5 to 14 in developing countries is in the order of 250 million, of whom some 120 million work full time in various jobs often under hazardous conditions amid crude living conditions. A surplus of unskilled workers and low wages have combined to create conditions for children similar to the worst features of factories, mines and mills from the 1800s with minimal chances for education and future happiness.
<more with photos>
http://www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/childlabor/index.html

[halobeam]

23. I appreciate this... it shows the importance of photography

and the benefits from the reactions of the public. Thats why sometimes, I feel obligated to look, although as I stated, I haven't yet, and that results in some guilt. However, I do try to help out in other ways.

Thanks.

[brer cat]

16. You are taking care of yourself which you need to do, halobeam.

It would be foolish to expose yourself when you know you are subject to depression. I have seen many of the pix of children and parents, and they can be devastating, and I often walk away for awhile from ALL of it...no coverage at all. You don't need to go there, you don't need to make excuses to yourself or anyone else, and no apologies.

[halobeam]

26. thats very sweet to say, brer cat...

I know I'm being protective of myself, I don't ever want to fold again.. (as I refer to the effects of depression)..

It's tough, reading and being active, and cherry picking what I would choose to "look at"...and I wondered how I fit in with so many here on DU, and if I had company in these emotions.

[mcscajun]

19. I cannot. I've always had a problem looking at the maimed, burned

bodies of victims of war, natural disasters, accidents, you name it. I cannot even watch movies with fake injuries and fake blood.

It's enough for me that I know such a thing has happened; my mind can supply all the horrific details to generate disgust, anger, outrage, horror.

One of the doctors in our office came back from his lunch break one afternoon in a State...he asked if we wanted to see a picture of his child, and threw the open TIME magazine on my desk with a horrific picture of one dead child, saying, "That's my child, that's mine." He was so wound up, and I could understand why. I know these pictures hit parents hardest, because they can imagine the horror of knowing that IS their child lying twisted and dead.

It upsets me to see, it upsets me to know that it is. I'm no Barbara Bush, but it is enough for me to know that horrors exist in the world; I don't have to see them. Such things burn too easily into my very visual and aural memory systems, and I cannot shake them. I stopped reading local tabloids years and years ago for similar reasons: there were too many stories of abused babies and children, rape victims, people pushed off of subway platforms, slashings, etc.; and these stories would linger with me day after day, and were in the aggregate just Too Disturbing. I didn't need to hear and see this every single day.

I am in favor of locking Bush in a small dark room with a single chair bolted to the floor, him strapped into it, and facing an endless multimedia show of all the horrifying images he is responsible for creating over the past 5+ years. I want his every waking and sleeping thought Filled with the horrors he owns.

[halobeam]

28. So true... the mind can see what the heart can hear.

Some of us do have a visual take on a thought, that may (possibly?) supercede the actual realistic sight. Call it imagination, call it super-sensitivity... I don't know, just a thought.

[JanusAscending]

20. Count me in as one who CAN'T bring myself

to open one of these threads. My heart just can't take it! P.S,I am already angry enough with this administration, without adding fuel to the fire!:grr:

[halobeam]

30. I am a bit afraid of my anger. I always kept it in.

Learning it was "allowed" was quite an accomplishment for me. Maybe another part of me is still afraid of the rage? This would certainly be fuel to even the smallest spark, wouldn't it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You know what is ten times worst?

to see this in the flesh, smells included, as well as fear, emotions etcetera. People need to know what war looks like

The reason partly you cannot look at them is the glorification and sanitization of war by the MSM... these should be on the eveneing news, just like they were during the Nam war

[halobeam]

31. I don't understand.

How do you mean the glorification and/or sanitization would deter me from looking? Are you meaning by their "bravo" bring it on crap, and the "we're in the right, doing right and saving people..freeing people" baloney contrasts so sharply with reality, that the pictures would be more startling?

I'm trying to understand what you mean.

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. TEEVEE is not showing these pictures

they are deemed TOO GRAPHIC and some are... this is in an effort to protect you from the effects of this.

Flash back to Nam... the photo of that girl who was napalmed and was running toward the photographer could not be avoided. It was part of the evening news.

You will never see that photo in your paper, let alone the evening news.

IN fact, what CNN has shown (and they have allowed more through)is far from the reality of what goes on. Why? They know full well that if people were exposed to this day in and day out with their evening meal (never mind less and less Muricans EAT a family meal at night) they would have a harder time selling war.

Then you go into the media... a kid's mail to a gaming magazine... man I love first person shooters but the gore turns me off... well what happens in the real article? Gore, plenty of it, but the media, whether novels, movies, video games or the news, have turned the gore down to the point that war is tolerable and even something to cheer.

[halobeam]

50. I understand, thank you.

The effort to "protect us" is to make war tolerable and we are more apt to cheer it on. Is that it? Sounds like the media these days to me. Everything I hate about them.

I know we all need to be MADDER... I'm not personally emotionally ready for an increase in rage quite yet... but the healthier I get, I'm sure the better fit I will be, to handle what I do feel is supposed to be felt.

War should make us SCREAM! Walking the streets, speaking out in every public arena of your community.... engage the ones who "say" they support it, but they won't go and fight, they won't send their family there to do it... ooo how I want to be ready to do that already. I touch on it sometimes.... then like I said, I settle back down.... to self-preservation. I guess it's just a work in progress and I'm frustrated I can't do more right now.

There have been some really great suggestions as to what I can do in the meanwhile to help more. Thanks to all of you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I have been accused of writing the first

war game that is antiwar... why? I pull no punches in the fiction and we do kill or severely main major characters a novel... and my depictions of war are graphic and painful at times to write. Why am I dong this? Partly I am sick and tired of the glorification of war in the media. Will it hurt my sales? Quite possibly, will I change this? Absolutely not. And like many a game it is also a commentary on current events, couched in future fiction.

[DesertRat]

24. Same here

I'm an early childhood teacher. My life is devoted to advocating for and teaching young children. The pics of hurt children tear my heart out. I just give an extra hug to my students and say a prayer for the children living with war.

[Poll_Blind]

25. I feel the same way you do, but sometimes I force myself to view them.

  I am a person who does not have problems remembering images with a certain kind of crystal clarity that has caused me to shy away from images of wounded or severely wounded people. On occasion I will see someone turned just such a certain way or in a position and flash back to a disturbing image I've seen following world news as closely as I do.

  It can be thoroughly disturbing and disconcertingly-sudden at times unexpectedly, on occasion, almost bringing me to tears.

  Since I recognized this unfortunate aspect of my ability to recall images, I try to shy away from anything of that nature, especially anything involving children (I and my girlfriend both have children and sometimes watch large groups of children- so I'm around children frequently) because it is the worst, absolutely worst thing in the world to see a picture of a parent holding a wounded or dead child. Many times their little dust-covered body shows little injury, their face peaceful in an irony that little-fails to bring me to tears. I cannot imagine the grief that those parents must feel. Indeed, "grief", "sadness", "horror" are the most two-dimensional descriptors for feelings that will forever go beyond the level of communication that words and even pictures afford us.

  I have regularly made two exceptions to my rule, though, both because of what they signify:

  The first is in relation to the Shoah (The Holocaust). I have made myself see what the Nazis did, purposefully so that I would be haunted by those images and never forget that I, especially as a parent, must burden myself with the real struggle that goes on in this world and why it is necessary to push fascism and evil back at any cost lest those horrors be perpetrated anew on innocents. If you do not see how horrible, how truly horrible, the face of ethnic nationalism is you would never speculate that things would could get that bad, that dehumanizing.

  The second is in relation to anything my government does in my name. I, again, purposefully haunt myself with those images so that I never become complacent in my struggle against fascism and militarism at home. It is also important to understand how the world views us and one of the primary faces they see of America is through our violence or the violence of others that we assist all over the world.

  I rarely, if ever, make any other exceptions. The first two have provided more than enough haunting memories to last me a lifetime.

PB

[halobeam]

34. What an in-depth description of such self awareness you offered...

It certainly is two-dimensional...grief, sadness, horror...by word or picture, compared to the reality of it. A picture may mean a thousand words, but not more than a second of such deep emotion.

The committment of reluctance to become complacent along with the committment to fight the fascism, by purposefully remembering the dehuminization of the holocaust are two excellent reasons (for lack of better words, to say the least)... admirable and quite frankly a most humane choice you have made.

[applegrove]

27. I pretty much avoid all threads like that and now avoid the news. Cause

unlike in Iraq..reporters are actually on the ground in Lebanon with cameras. So it is just unbearable.

[halobeam]

35. I sometimes just sit quietly ... and wonder ..."why?"

I know the answers. They just aren't good enough for me. I hear you.

[applegrove]

55. Well you lost me. I know the answers And I'll fight against the "used

car salesmen" running all of the geopolitics.. until I die.

But you just sit there.

[SquireJons]

32. Count me in this group

I know there is death and destruction. I know many innocent people; men, women and children have died because people in this country, and in the Middle East do not want peace. That knowledge is not broadened with my viewing of the suffering and the dead. I am not a masochist, and have no more wish to cause pain to my soul, than I would to mutilate my flesh. Others hold different views, but mine is right for me.

[Minstrel Boy]

33. When I saw the picture three years ago

of Ali, the Iraqi boy whose arms had been blown off and whose family had been killed, I felt like I was going to go crazy with sorrow, and with hatred for the glib bastards who did that to him.

I can't take it. I can't look.


April 8, 2003
I Understand There's a Boy in a Baghdad Hospital

By LARRY KEARNEY

this morning I understand that there's
a twelve year old boy

in a hospital in Baghdad.

the word is that last night a missile
hit his flimsy house and killed

his mother, his father, his brothers,
his sisters,

and also blew
his arms off his body.

what color is his room
do you think? with the sun coming up

creeping, what is it shining on?
which bits of chrome, flesh,

fabric? colored water?
is it all right?

will things be all right?

the boy cries because his mother is dead.
and.

and because the nurse
looks at him.

he cries and cries and asks
can you bring back my arms?

I heard this on the radio.
you understand? that question?

can you bring back my arms?

it isn't even a question, is it?
we'd have to say well,

we knew they'd be gone.
some of them anyway.

we'll just have to live with it
won't we.

http://www.counterpunch.org/kearney04082003.html

[halobeam]

37. The color of his bedroom... holy hell......

poetry, I write it.. I read it.. I live it. I see that we all live it. Even the little boy... or especially the little boy.

[Poll_Blind]

40. Damn. No words beyond that. n/t

PB

[peacetalksforall]

36. Please feel high on yourself. You're right to write about it - we need to

resist anyone who says that killing is justifiable for any reason. The conscienseness of those who do it and those who justify it can be raised.

There is no truth to the statemeent that some live by - that there will always be war.

It is a hopeless belief.

Stay strong. We all must stay strong.We were not born to kill.

[halobeam]

41. The real "hard work" is in the peace making.

The right thing is usually the hardest thing... nonetheless, the RIGHT THING.

So true.

[emcguffie]

39. Well, I haven't looked at one.NT

[halobeam]

42. Welcome, seems we aren't alone. I had a feeling/hope ....

:pals:

[1monster]

44. I can't look at the ones with hurt children or the ones with hurt adults..

Just seeing the thread titles is enough to make me recoil... I can not understand, and have never been able to understand this kind of gross inhumanity that seems to be so human in far too many of our species...

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. I'll give you an explanation that might not make you happy

under all that pretense of rationality lives an amimal... no less instinctual in some levels than other animals. We are a social animal... that goes to war... just like our closest cousins do (chimps) This conclusion I reached recently... and it does mean that chances are war will be with us until we manage to destroy ourselves... perhaps that is the fate of advanced civilizations and why SETI has not found any evidence of advanced life. We reach the point where our insincts lead to the innevitable conclusion.

[Chulanowa]

52. I look, and I look HARD

I stare and digest, burning the images into my mind. Why? Maybe it's a mild streak of masochism, because it pains the hell out of me to see these images - of children yes, but of their parents, grandparents, and even those who would kill them who were themselves killed. It hurts like hell.

But I force myself to look. 'Cause someone's got to know. Years from now, some of us will have to remember, There will be those who believe that one side or the other in any given war was flawless, or that the war itself was "painless". That only the relative "bad guys" were ever maimed, burned, eviscerated, vivisected, mauled, crushed, shot, sliced, or otherwise eradicated. Our children will be taught of the fighting in clinical terms of "aggressor" and "defender", "casualties" and "collateral"

It's our responsability to look, and remember, to always remember what an abomination war is. Not to remember it for ourselves, but to remember it so that our future selves, our progeny will know to avoid it.

[pitohui]

56. i don't look at threads w. pix of hurt children

i don't even understand the mentality of people who want to see things like that

[Cerridwen]

57. Most of the time, I can't look

But then, if I start to become extremely angry, I make myself look.

That's what brings me back to reality. Revenge is killing children, women and men. War is killing.

Peace is the only way we can co-exist on this planet.

The only way.

[MODemocrat]

58. They pictures make me so sad for those innocent children

who don't have a voice in this; also makes me angry at the "adults" who start these wars, without any
thought or care of what happens to those innocents; as long as they can stay drunk with power, and rake in all their millions of dollars.

There will be a place in hell for all the so-called bumbling leaders who think war is so great! :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown: :evilfrown:

[hopeisaplace]

59. I've looked and it's kept me from sleeping on several occasions

..seriously..tossing and turning and can't fall asleep over it.
I cry at the drop of hat these days.

[pitohui]

61. you're no good to anybody like that, take care of yourself!

too many good people seem to feel a need to immobilize themselves by exposing themselves to images and ideas that make them feel hopeless

we are not the people who need to have our brains stuffed with such images, the people responsible for the lost limbs and the lost lives are the ones who need to be looking at those pictures

[hopeisaplace]

62. thanks for your kind message, that was very nice of you

...I needed that tonight :hug:

[Libby2]

60. I can't do it.