Realtor Dickishness. What are home owners' recourse from this?

[Chimichurri]

Background story from a home owner:

We bought a new house in November, 2005, before selling our old one. Risky business, we know, but we have a large family; if we sold the Gregory Ave house first, we might not have been able to find a place that would fit all eight of us.

We initially listed the house for $409,000, in October 2005. We reduced it fairly rapidly to $389,900. All of this took place in 2005. We didn't expect the house to move quickly, if at all, because it was wintertime -- but it was the lowest-priced house in a desirable section of West Orange.
...
January, R (our realtor) called to see if we'd be able to talk to John Geaney, the manager of her office. We agreed -- why not listen to a market expert? -- and the four of us (me, my wife, John, and R) sat around a table and discussed the market.
...
In a nutshell, John told us that we should reduce our price by $40,000, but he didn't have a lot to back it up.

After he left, it became clear that he had hit his realtor out of the blue. She said that she knew her markets, and that the current price seemed reasonable to her.

email requesting release of contract:

Jim,
From their Web site: "Each WEICHERT® franchised office is independently owned and operated." My beef is with the people I've named. The people in your local office may be quite nice; just pray that everything goes well so nothing has to get escalated.

We want out of the our contract with your company. Our dissatisfaction stems from the unprofessionalism of your staff and our strong sense that they are not working in our best interest.

Specifically:
There's a lot behind this. When John Geaney pretends that it's our fault that the house didn't move, he conveniently ignores the fact that his office failed to do its job. Details here.

* For five weekends this spring, Weichert failed to provide open houses and advertising for our house at ******** in West Orange, NJ.
This was at the meeting in January, well before they had missed all of the open houses, as detailed on the John Geaney page.

* John Geaney demanded a listing price reduction that even his own realtor thought was unreasonable.
This was well after the January meeting, in June, after they had already missed five open houses. Again, details are here.

* When we tried to reduce the price, but not to the level he wanted, he rejected the terms and said that he would not advertise it or run open houses unless we agreed to his price.

* We told him that, if he wasn't going to market the house, we wanted out of the contract. He refused to release us.

That was blackmail: he wouldn't let us go anywhere else _or_ do anything to move the house unless we kowtowed to his demands.

Such unprofessionalism is unworthy of the REALTOR brand, and we are likely moving forward with an official complaint describing this as a violation of Article 1 of the National Association of Realtors Code of Ethics.

Furthermore:
Detailed on the Larry ***** page. I don't mind that he checked with John before reacting; but his reaction was out of line.

* Larry ***** treated us with hostility. Originally he said he wouldn't discuss the issue until he had talked to John. The next day, he refused even to let us speak: he continually said "let me finish" without ever providing an opportunity for us to discuss our side of the story. While technically not unethical, this was one of the rudest responses to a customer complaint I have ever seen.

* After this conversation, Larry took control of our account personally, explicitly telling us that we would never get to anyone higher in the organization and that even our realtor was no longer allowed to negotiate with us.

* He also refused to let us out of our contract.

There is no question that we feel that we are "stuck with" Weichert at this point -- hardly the impression that you would like our neighbors to have about your company. We reject their intimidation tactics, their stonewalling, and their arrogance. We hope you do, too.

We want out of our contract. Please advise us as quickly as possible about what you're willing to do in this regard.

Thank you,
Jake and Sue

http://www.whyweichertsucks.com/theStory.html

[elehhhhna]

1. COntact the state RE Board and the NRA (Nat' Realtors Assn.,) pronto.

[helderheid]

5. Not NRA (National Rifle Assn.) - NAR (National Association of Realtors)

http://www.realtor.org/

[elehhhhna]

23. Whoopsie!

[Solo_in_MD]

14. Its NAR actually and there are some intervening steps.

Document your time line and issues. Clear, concise. Short sentences. You get the idea.

The broker of record (not manager) is responsible for the contract. Determine if the manager is also the broker of record. If he is, for him to intercede is legit, though tacky.

Find out which local Board of Realtors he belongs to. Some states have them, others don't. Ethics complaints start there.

Go to the state/local web site and read the ethics rules. They might surprise you. See which of your issues are covered. Make sure you have some that are applicable. Being an asshat is not a ethics violation.

Meet with the broker of record. Tell him you have documented ethical lapses and are going to board over his conduct. Be specific, chapter and verse. If he will not relent, document your meeting. Cite the sections but do not supply any of your documentation to him.

Contact the owner of the office (if they are not the managing broker) and tell them you are going forward with a documented ethics complaint. If that does not get you released, document your meeting. Again cite the sections but do not supply any of your documentation to them.

Contact the franchiser and tell them you are going forward with an ethics complaint. That will not go unnoticed. Be prepared to document your correspondence, since it most likely will not be an face to face meeting. Again cite the sections but do not supply any of your documentation to them.

File the complaint with the appropriate BOR. All that documentation you generated will come in handy at this point. Also file with the BBB on the broker, office, and franchiser. Action may not be swift, but it will come. I've seen brokers and agents lose licenses. I've also heard of brokers making restitution offers rather than face an ethics inquiry. Hold tight and DOCUMENT.


How long did you sign the listing agreement for? Agents always ask for 180 days or more. I never give more than 90.

Document all interactions, even though as innocuous as a status phone call. Time, day, duration and content at a minimum.

Best of luck.

[helderheid]

2. I've just emailed this to my mom who has been both a sales

agent and a broker for 30+ years.

[JuniperLea]

3. You don't have to lower the price if you don't want to

Look at your original agreement. Is there anything mentioned about open house or advertising? Is the house on a multiple listing service?

That is a disgusting way to treat a client. I'd call the Better Business Bureau and see if there are any other complaints, and I'd most definitely file one of my own!

The asking price for the house should be based on comparable home sales in the area. Period.

What is the term of your agreement? Three months? Six? Sounds to me as if they are trying to make sure it gets sold while they are still under contract.

[KoKo]

4. The personal names might get lot's of hate e-mail.

You might want delete them from your post.

[Vinnie From Indy]

6. Auction the property

Depending on the contract you signed, you may be able to sell the house at auction and not pay the realtor a dime. Your contract may also preclude you from doing this as well until the listing period is up.

Auctions are a great way to find out if your property is valued correctly for far less money than carrying the house month after month. There are also a ton of additional benefits including selling the house "as-is" and injecting "urgency" into the potential buyer's mind. You can sell the house at whatever "reserve" you want. Just be advised that the market will let you know what it is worth on the day of the auction to the buyers assembled. You may not sell it, but at the very least, all of the attendees at the auction are very strong buying candidates that can be negotiated with after the auction.

Find a professional, reputable real estate auctioneer in your area to contact and discuss your situation.

[BooScout]

7. Sounds like he's already broken your contract....

...when he refused to advertise or list at the price you desired. Contact your State Board of Realtors and file a formal complaint and consult an attorney ASAP. Time is money.


How long was your contract for? NEVER, NEVER sign a realty contract for longer than 90 days.

[indygrl]

24. 90 days in a slow market isn't fair to the realtor

Some times it takes about 5 months around here and the first broker is the one that does the most advertising, foot work to get all info needed. Our area most alway asks for a 6 month list, of course the seller can say no but some realtors would rather not waste their money and time for a short list. Maybe in larger cities 3 is fine. But here it's a buyers market.

[Joe for Clark]

8. You know - really - the value of property is that which you

can get on an open market. Really, thats all that counts. Appraisals are crap.

I think the obligation you have is for a sale at that stated price. If you haven't moved the property, it is probably not the right price. And no broker worth his salt will hold onto a listing he can't move.

I think you may have two problems here.

I hope this turns out ok for you.

Joe

[helderheid]

9. I love my mom. Here's her reply:

They are right to file a complaint with NAR--but more importantly they should file a complaint with their state licensing agency and the local board of realtors--that will get the attention of the Realtors. The state agency is required to investigate every complaint received. Realtors hate that!

[Chimichurri]

12. This is great to know!

[helderheid]

17. My mom is an expert :)

[MallRat]

10. Is there a time limit on exclusivity in NJ?

Here in MA, when you sign an exclusivity agreement with a realtor to list your property, it lasts for only 90 days.

After 90 days, you're free to sever your relationship and find another realtor.

Double-check and see if similar language is in their contract with Weichert. And if not, check with the appropriate state agency to see if there should be a time limit to exclusivity.

-MR

[Dr.Phool]

11. I had a similar problem with a realtor in Ohio.

It can be easier than you think. Have an attorney (I had a friend) look over the contract. They are all pretty standard.

Send the Realtor and his boss (company) a certified letter telling them that they are FIRED for breach of contract, incompetence, and failure to live up to acceptable service standards. They will scream and whine for a while, but really, they cant do anything.

Their only recourse would be that if someone that they showed the house to in the previous six months purchases it, and they will have a commission coming. They DO after all work for you.

Good luck.

[BooScout]

13. One more thing....

It's been my experience that Open Houses are crap when it comes to selling a house and a waste of time. Your best sales resources are that multiple listing and good internet access......and a great neighborhood.

[n2doc]

15. Hope you can get rid of them

It has been an interesting experience looking at houses in Georgia. My wife and I are convinced that some realtors work together to drive the prices of certain houses down so that they can be sold to flippers. An example- before we bought our house we had been looking and saw an ad for a house on the marsh. It looked like it would need some work but we had been interested in the area and so wanted to look at it. We could not get a viewing. The realtor came up with all sorts of excuses about how the house wasn't ready for viewing, didn't return calls, etc., etc. We ended up buying elsewhere but kept an eye on it. It is still for sale, but 70K less now (4 months later). They had an "open house" ad in the paper for it yesterday, and when my wife went out there she was "greeted" by a trio of agressive, barking dogs and a closed door at the house, in spite of open house signs in the neighborhood. So we are convinced the realtor is trying to make the owners of that place drop the proce so that someone they know can buy it and make a fat profit. But :wtf: do I know? It is just speculation.

[northzax]

21. surely that happens sometimes

but what also is happening is that a lot of people have recently gotten into being realtors, in the past 5 years or so. All they know is a seller's market, where buyers, in many cases would beg for access and pay way too much for a place that wasn't sold well. those days are over now, in much of the country, and in a downturning market, a lot of people are going to fail as seller's agents. anyone could sell a house in 2004, it takes more skill in 2006.

[KT2000]

16. What happens here is that

a realtor will try to manage a sale to people who are in the business of buying older houses to fix up and resell.
They want the lowest price possible and my guess is that they get a cut or something like that.
There are lots of angles that some realtors work that are not in your best interest.
Good for you for sticking up for yourself.

[Tennessee Gal]

19. "my guess is that they get a cut or something like that"

Realtors are not allowed to do that. They can get in serious trouble.

[KT2000]

26. Yes I know

I'm not saying it is legal.
Lots of funny things sre happening in the community where I live.

[Monk06]

18. Sounds to me like fraud. He may be colluding with a third party buyer

to scoop your house at the lower price and
then resell it at fair market value and split
the difference.

Where did he get the $40,000 discount? He would
have to show that a similar house in your neighborhood
sold for the lower price.

That's why he's not advertising or doing open houses.
He's trying to force you into a distress sale.

That's conspiracy to defraud pure and simple.

[mmonk]

20. Did neither realtor provide a CMA (comparable market analysis)?

That would give a range the property was worth. Also, I saw no indication as to whether the property was getting any showings or not. Go to arbitration or withdraw from the market on the basis you don't want to sell. I don't know any Realtor that would want the hassle to force the listing to remain the term.
By the way, I'm a realtor.

[Joe for Clark]

22. The problem with a sliding market is you need to anticipate.

The only really good thing about realtors is they can guide you thru a sale.
Screen potential buyers, etc.. They don't "manufacture a buyer".

They hit the MLS and that goes to potentials - and that is a good value.

The price procures the buyer - realtors get the deal closed.

Always my experience,

No broker wants the problems. But they won't get a buyer this way, either.

The guy is probably right about the price.

Joe

[Bunny]

25. Heh - I read the whole site, and Democratic Underground got a

mention - he said he's gotten more hits from us in the last hour than he got all day yesterday! :thumbsup: