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I Am Pro-Israel, Therefore I Criticize Israel

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 05:01 PM
Original message
I Am Pro-Israel, Therefore I Criticize Israel
kpete: I liked this article because it speaks for peace.
"If those of us who speak out for peace stress the pragmatic benefits, we may turn the tide of American opinion, too."


Published on Monday, August 7, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
I Am Pro-Israel, Therefore I Criticize Israel
by Ira Chernus

I am pro-Israel. That’s why I criticize Israel’s violence in Palestine and Lebanon every chance I get.

I don’t say much about the immorality of Israeli actions. They are shockingly immoral. But talking about it won’t make much difference. So I appeal to naked self-interest. I point out the obvious: Every time a Palestinian or Lebanese is hit by an Israeli bomb or bullet, it spells more risk for the safety of Israel.

Most Jews who say they are pro-Israel act as if they are deaf to the moral arguments, anyway. They do have hearts and consciences. They are not unmoved by the TV pictures of the carnage their military creates. But precisely because they are touched by the suffering of their foes, they’ve become very skilled in rationalizing Israeli violence. For every moral criticism they have a rebuttal ready at hand to ease their consciences. They and their ancestors have being doing it for over a century now, so they have a whole arsenal of moral justifications.

In living rooms, town meetings, and op-ed pages, the morality of Israeli policy ends up like a ping-pong ball, batted back and forth by both sides. Since there is no objective referee to keep score, the game just goes on forever. While we all have the right and duty to speak the moral truth as we see it, that’s not likely to change anyone’s mind very soon.

more at:
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0807-29.htm
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Trouble is -
you're using common sense. Great shame that more people don't do so too.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you really want to hurt Israel, encourage it to destroy more of
Edited on Mon Aug-07-06 06:06 PM by leveymg
Lebanon. If you really want to hurt America, encourage Bush to start bombing Iran.

As they say -- just give 'em enough rope, and they'll hang themselves and each and every last one of us in the process.

Is it now clear why I criticize Olmert and Bush? What's your excuse for failing to do so, while you still can?
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. thanks leveymeg
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I really hate having to fight these battles at DU.
Even though the worst flame jobs on the subject of Israel come out of a few hardened, single-issue posters -- and, I don't mind telling them what I really think on the subject -- I know that others are horrified and put off by the emotional volume of the debate and constant exchanges of sniping. Fighting is unpleasant. I don't like it, and wish that there was a better alternative.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Excellent piece, and thanks for sharing it!
Edited on Mon Aug-07-06 06:53 PM by NanceGreggs
Regardless of whose 'side' you take in this conflict, common sense went out the window a long time ago.

I heard Alan Dershowitz say the other night that no matter who causes a casuality, Hezbollah or Israel, it is Hezbollah who winds up with a 'point' on their side of the scoreboard. And yet he supports continuing the conflict.

Wouldn't the obvious, common-sense question be: "If you're playing basketball and the other side scores the point, whether you make the basket or they do, what is the purpose in continuing the game?"

And more importantly, just HOW AND WHEN does the game END?

Forgot to add: BIG-TIME K & R!

:kick:
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. very nice comparison
All this killing makes no sense to me...

nobodys right if everybodys wrong

When will the human race learn?

We keep trying the same idiotic solution (war) over and over and over and over and over....


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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm in much the same situation...
...and I don't think I'm all that unusual. I doubt many (if, indeed, any) who criticize Israeli policies would wish the state of Israel to cease to exist. And even if some did, the reality is that Israel isn't going anywhere. With it's drastically-superior military capability, I cannot imagine a scenario, now or in the future, where the very existence of Israel could be seriously threatened, no more than the U.S. could be driven out of existence by al-Qaeda.

Given that, I find it a dishonest bit of rhetoric to suggest that those like myself who criticize Israel's actions are "anti-Semitic" or "want to see Israel driven into the sea." To me, it's no different from conservatives who insist that to criticize the Bush administration is to "hate America" or "want to see the terrorists win." By making that either/or distinction ("either you support Bush 100% or you're an America-hater" or "either you support Israel's government 100% or you want to see the Jews exterminated") is a false dichotomy and an attempt to bully one's opponent.

Much like Joshua Micah Marshall at TalkingPointsMemo, I want to see a just solution in the Middle East, which includes both a secure Israel and a viable Palestine with a dividing line as close as possible to the "Green Line" -- not to mention a rebuilt and democratic Lebanon. And, as a corollary, each side free of influence by the "all-or-nothing" extremists.

However, I'm of the opinion that "if you want peace, work for justice" -- and that the track record proves me right. When there has been genuine hope of a solution to the problem, as in the early days of the Oslo process (up until Netanyahu's election), the route of violence was shunned by the majority of Palestinians; when that hope was blotted out, armed revolt (in the name of Islam or not) became much more popular. Therefore, I disagree with the notion (which seems to be the prevalent sentiment both in Israel and among its supporters here) that first all extremism must be stamped out, and "then we can talk" about a settlement. From my experience, all that approach does is breed more extremism, and make a final resolution all the more far off.

I suppose a legitimate retort might be, then, if I am against both Israeli expansionism and Arab/Muslim extremism, why do I frequently criticize one and far less frequently the other? For me, this is because of several reasons:

-- Opposition to violent Islamism is so obvious that it scarcely needs to be mentioned. Am I required, every time I criticize Bush, to issue an "equal time" denunciation of al-Qaeda? I doubt that there are many on the left (although plenty on the right) who would make such a demand.

-- Similarly, opposition to violent Islamism is by far the "conventional wisdom" in the U.S., while said conventional wisdom is strongly in favor of Israel's existence (and, indeed, in its right to "defend itself" by any means it deems necessary). I fail to see any need to ratify the conventional wisdom any time I want to say something that might contradict it. To assert that the 2000 election was stolen shouldn't require me to first issue a disclaimer that the vast majority of elections in this country were run fairly.

-- There's a serious disproportion to the threats involved. I won't claim that Hezbollah or Hamas aren't a threat to Israelis, but on a relatively small scale. However, the difference in death-dealing power between a cadre of suicide bombers, or even a few hundred Katushya rockets, and the massive arsenal of Israeli weaponry is so far out of balance it hardly needs mentioning, as the body count of civilians in Lebanon vis-a-vis Israel makes clear. As I see it, Israel has all the advantage in an armed conflict; therefore, in my opinion, it also has the primary responsibility to wield that power with wisdom and restraint -- something I don't see it doing at this time.

-- Finally, the fact remains that Israel is a recipient of massive U.S. aid. Hamas and Hezbollah, to put it mildly, are not. That means that I am at least partially responsible for the use Israel makes of that aid. Like it or not, I helped pay for the bombs that killed the women and children in Qana, and the four U.N. observers, and destroyed Beirut airport, and caused the worst oil spill since the Exxon Valdez. Since I'm partly, although unintentionally, responsible for all these acts, it is my intentional responsibility to speak out against them. Had the U.S. been a donor to Hezbollah, or even to Iran, I would feel an equal responsibility to speak out against that use of my tax dollars. But that isn't the case, and never will be.

But one should never take criticism of the Israeli government's policies, or sympathy for the civilians of Palestine or Lebanon, as evidence that I "hate Jews" (for the record, I'm half-Jewish myself) or "want Israel wiped out." I want Israel to exist in security in a just peace. For that matter, I want the U.S. to take its rightful place in a world ruled by international law, and do the works of justice both at home and abroad. That doesn't mean that I'm not allowed to speak out when I see the leaders of either country acting contrary to those goals.

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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said....
and I think you will find a lot of support for your position here.

I will reiterate that criticism of Israel does not equal criticism of Israelis. That distinction (apparently) needs to be made clear.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-07-06 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think the criticism is of the Israeli Government
and the decisions they have been making are much like the criticism we make of the American Government and the HORRIBLE actions we have taken these last few years.



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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. That's one of the best posts I've seen in the past 4 weeks
on this whole sorry mess. It's so frustrating that so many people haven't seen what you say as self-evident. It's brilliantly expressed, however, so I think I may just direct people straight to it in the future.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Plenty of Israelis feel exactly the same way n/t
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 05:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. What a load!
I am so sick of seeing things like this. Talk about "useful idiots!" :puke:
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 05:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. Great stuff.
He speaks the truth.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. In general, good.
It's this line: "They and their ancestors have being doing it for over a century now, so they have a whole arsenal of moral justifications." that makes me a little queezy though.

What I don't like is when I criticize current actions in Lebanon, being branded anti-semitic. I was thinking about this twisted spin on logic. If I criticize American foreign policy, am I anti-American? Anti-Christian? This is where I have a bone to pick so to speak.
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
14. Yes, Ira gets it.
the same way Bush's actions have caused terrorism world-wide to skyrocket to all-time highs and more Americans died violently during Bush's watch than any other president since Nixon.

"Many have lost but tell me who has won?" - U2 Sunday Bloody Sunday
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. We long for more voices of reason like Professor Chernus to speak out!
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 10:55 AM by KoKo01
(I'm just so sick of the Media Spin and that most Americans just don't have the time to find articles that would help them have some perspective other than "Good Guys and Bad Guys." Thanks for posting this!)


Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder and author of American Nonviolence: The History of an Idea and the forthcoming book "Monsters to Destroy: The Neoconservative War on Terror and Sin."
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
17. Exactly true. It takes a patriot to stand up and say your government
is behaving badly.
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