Dershowitz (the fraud) and Zogby on Larry King ...

[cool user name]

After commercial (of course)

[jonnyblitz]

1. Dershowitz is subhuman slime. nt

[everythingsxen]

3. Is he now?

Any particular reason he doesn't count as human?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Baselinereality]

7. Alright, Good Point. He IS 'Human.' But still 'slime.'

Did you read his recent HuffingtonPost comments? He essentially condones the merciless slaughter of all Lebanese civilians because a recent poll showed that 80% of them support Hezbollah...support Hezbollah while Israel is bombing them back to the Stone Age, he conveniently forgets to mention. He probably also doesn't remember that 90% of the sheeple in this country supported Dumbya after we were attacked.

He also was one of America's first "intellectuals" to publicly condone the use of torture following the attacks on September 11th, 2001. I think I first heard the "ticking time bomb" theory from his mouth.

He has, sadly, lost his way.

I blame O.J.

[jonnyblitz]

11. plenty of reason.

but I have no interest in discussing it with you, xen. and by the way, say hi to everybody for me over at that "undercover" site, especially Herschel! :crazy:

[everythingsxen]

14. Of course you have no interest in discussing your reasons...

You just hop in threads, call certain people sub-human and leave. I can't imagine why you wouldn't want to discuss why you do that....

[malaise]

9. Ditto

He's blaming Hizbollah for Israeli bombs.

[everythingsxen]

16. Silly Alan!

Everyone knows it's Israels fault! After all Israel is the one supplying Hezbollah with thousands of rockets and soldiers. No wait that's Iran....

Everyone knows Israel is shooting 200 rockets a day at themselves....

No wait thats Hezbollah...

[SPKrazy]

10. Why's That ?????

I'll wait

[jonnyblitz]

12. google his name, read his writings. educate yourself..

I don't have the time nor patience tonight.

[everythingsxen]

15. You never do...

Many a post have I read by you and never have I seen any backup, validation or facts. The only thing I see is inflammatory insults consistently hurled and plenty of innuendo about certain issues.

[SPKrazy]

21. No, I've Got Your Number On This One

Search is my friend

I know where you stand

[Mr_Spock]

27. agreed

He's over the top at this point.

[Eric J in MN]

2. I'll be listening to Kos on "The Majority Report" instead.

Sam Seder hosts the radio show:

www.airamerica.com

[Gabi Hayes]

5. on right now, eric

and, Jim, this is fun, hey?

lots of good friends being made here in the last month.....

[Vinnie From Indy]

6. Dershowitz is a high paid serial liar and egomaniac and blowhard!

He also thinks that torture is just marvey as long as it's a Muslim being tortured.

[riverwalker]

8. Dershowitz : snail vomit

This country's most vocal and passionate advocate of torture always makes me think of this quote from Lincoln.
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally."

Abraham Lincoln, March 17, 1865, Speech to 140th Indiana Regiment

How about it, Al?

[cool user name]

13. Dershowitz sez:

"This is a prelude to a new type of war ..." (paraphrase)

Now, if I inferred correctly, that means he's excusing these actions because the enemy uses them.

It's a prelude to a new type of war, Alan, only if we let it be. Zogby made a clear statement that adopting the tactics of the enemy will only encourage others to disregard international law. I agree with this whole-heartedly. It's time to take a moral stance if not for morality's sake then at least for self-preservation.

[BayCityProgressive]

19. I have read some of

Alan's work. I like some of it. I don't think he is any less fair than Chomsky or any other highly political writer trying to convince people they are 100% right.

[cool user name]

24. Of course there's a difference between Chomsky and Dershowitz!

One strives for truth and honesty (and progressive causes).

The other plagiarizes from known frauds to establish apologetics for immoral behavior and condones non-progressive causes (i.e. torture).

Agree or disagree with Chomsky, you cannot put Dershowitz on the same plain. Not if you want to be honest with yourself.

[TahitiNut]

17. Blame-shifting to the victim is the pathological excuse of abusers and

... tyrants for millenia.

The wife-beater: "You're making me beat you! Stop screaming!"
The sexual predator: "It's her fault for wearing those clothes."

Over one-third of the victims if IDF bombings have been children, and that doesn't count the women and elderly.

Those with the greatest power to do harm have the greatest responsibility to do good.

Unless and until people take responsibility for their own actions, there can be no end to atrocities.

"We must be the change we want to see in the world." (Gandhi)

[Nevernose]

26. So you're saying that Israel has low self-esteem?

And that's why the nation as a whole feels the need to "abuse" Lebanon?

It couldn't be because Hezbollah really DOES put rocket launchers in civilian areas? And that accounts for a large portion of the civilian casualties? That, in war, mistakes are sometimes made? That attacks on infrastructure are an ordinary military tactic to prevent enemy resupply?

Or they feel a pathological need for superiority through random violence, and that's why they're "preying" upon Lebanon?

Assuming that they DO feel a need to feel superiority through aggression, and "rape" Lebanon, what is their motive? Is Israel evil at the core, or do they have some kind of rational motive?

Over one-third of the victims if IDF bombings have been children, and that doesn't count the women and elderly.

So in every situation we automatically blame who has the better bombs?

Those with the greatest power to do harm have the greatest responsibility to do good.

True. How do we measure that, though? In kilotons? In number of bullets? In terms of influence? Couldn't it also be argued that, since they had most of the influence in Southern Lebanon, Hezbollah has the greatest power to do good in this situation? That if they'd spent that Iranian money on things besides rockets, things might have been different? That if they declared a ceasefire today, the war would be over? It works both ways.

And more importantly:

I find myself defending Israel on DU over and over again, and I feel a little guilty about it. My aim here isn't so much to laud Israel in self-righteousness, but to point out that Hezbollah (and by logical conclusion, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran) is just as guilty.

The world just isn't right & wrong, good & evil, black & white, us & them.

Both sides can be right, and both sides can be wrong, all at the same time.

If people must "take responsibility" and "be the change," it must include everyone. The whole world seems to focus on blame, though, for things in the past, instead of focusing on the future.

"We must be the change we want to see in the world."

Gandhi is my hero.

[TahitiNut]

28. Let's do a little thinking.

Let's suppose we have a hostage crisis .... where criminals or terrorists have taken hostages and threaten to kill them. There are enough historical examples - pick one. (Entebbe? Iran? Munich?)

Now, let's suppose that the police or military (1) refuse to talk with the criminals/terrorists and (2) conduct an assault, killing all the hostages. A forensic review indicates that every hostage was killed by the assault, and not the criminals/terrorists.

Is this a reasonable policy? Remember Waco? Remember the outcry? Why, then, is it suddenly "defensible" that the IDF target civilian population centers, in contravention of international laws, when it's been known forever that a mobile guerrilla force will have departed the site long before the retaliation? (We knew this in Viet Nam - it's why we didn't return fire. It would have been criminal!)

I've lost all patience with the imbecilic claim that Hizb'allah is responsible for the hugely disproportional civilian casualties due to IDF bombings. It's not true; it's never been true; it never will be true.

[TahitiNut]

18. (duplicate)

[TahitiNut]

20. (triplicate)

[TahitiNut]

22. (quadruplicate)

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

23. Larry King seemed pretty even-handed

He let Zogby have the last word and he told Dershowitz to keep quiet when he tried to interrupt him. And after that, when speaking to George Mitchell, Larry King asked him what the solution was when both sides sounded right. I've never listened to Larry King very much in the past, mainly because of his fluffy kind of shows focused on the American banality of the day. But I must say that he surprised me by being one of the most neutral and even-handed hosts I've seen in this entire affair.

[cool user name]

25. I have to say that this particular episode, King was being even-handed.

I agree.

[Little Star]

29. Dershowitz came across as a

small minded, angry man. Do you think that maybe he is a bigot? He sure sounded like one to me. Talk about having no respect for Arab life! Jeesh!