AS much as I dislike LIEberman

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

These posts from other Democrats like Clark or Conyers seem like a bit of whistling past the graveyard....

If the people of Connecticut want Joe Lieberman beyond the Democrats who rejected him last night......we can't stand there and tell the guy not to run. He just can't be a Dem anymore if he does it.

The bottom line is, you know he's going to win the general election. The GOP candidate has no shot in hell, and Repugs along with Lieberman Dems and independants are going to sweep Joe back in.

We can stand here and tell him not to run, but if the people want him he will be there......I think all last night did was delay the inevitable.

[JeffR]

1. Call me Kreskin

He will not win the general election.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

34. Polls already show Lieberman winning

he's been there for 18 years. People like him.
Connecticut is full of moderates, (rich ones- they only got a state income tax recently).

[w4rma]

36. No they don't. The last 3 way poll was 40%/40%/18%.

As more Democrats fall in line behind the Democratic nominee Lamont's numbers will go up. And Republicans aren't very fond of LIEberman at all. Republicans have their own candidate that doesn't "vote with Democrats 90% of the time".

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. I didn't see that poll

That's still pretty close. If Rove really does get involved then watch out.
Anyway, that is better than I have seen before.
Perhaps we feel confident enough to say "Bring it On!"?

[im10ashus]

48. You have a link? n/t

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SteppingRazor]

2. Sadly, I agree that an eventual Lieberman win is likely...

but I don't think the primary was a pointless exercise. Heading into the 2006 elections -- and beyond -- the CT primary will help guide the direction of the Democratic Party. Hell, Hillary Clinton's demanding Rumsfeld's resignation a few days back could be attributed to Lieberman's troubles. So, we're already seeing a shift in stance from some of the war's traditional backers.

[Atman]

3. Wow, you so completely miss the point of primaries!

Why bother with them at all, I guess. In fact, why have any rules. Anybody should be able to run as anything they want and not tell the voters what his real political affiliation is. Run for any open seat, then switch to the party you wanted to run under.

That's nuts, dude. THE PEOPLE OF CONNECTICUT SPOKE! Lieberman LOST the right to represent us. It's called an election.

[kentuck]

5. Right on!

Absolutely!

[Beelzebud]

7. Exactly. Why bother with primaries if candidates ignore them?

Doesn't it seem like a HUGE waste of money and time to run a primary, if your opponent is just going to ignore the results?

[krkaufman]

47. It can always be done. But is very detrimental to the health of ...

... a political party -- and to the political career of the candidate splitting-off.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

11. I think I know what the point of the primaries are

I also know that not every voter in the state of Connecticut votes in them because they are not all Democrats.

99% of the time, when a candidates loses the primary, he's done because he can't even draw from a base of his party. But Lieberman is not a "normal" Democrat.

Again, I don't want Lieberman in there......I want his ass gone. But let's stop this idea that EVERYONE in the state has spoken, because deep down you are fooling yourself if you think the next three months will be a Lamont victory tour.

[Atman]

15. EVERYONE doesn't get a chance to speak in the DEMOCRATIC primary!

Only democrats do. Getting it yet? Every voter has a chance to choose their representatives, and the DEMOCRATIC voters chose theirs. I could give a rats ass what the republicans do with their votes.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

52. No kidding

Hey, I'd love to live in your world where only the winners of Democratic primaries matter as far as who goes to Washington. Sign me up. But the point of the original post was that I don't think that's how it's going to shake out. You may not give a rat's ass who Repugs vote for......but you damn sure will if it means Lieberman gets back to Washington as your senator.

[kaygore]

35. LIEberman had all the big guns like Boxer and Clinton behind him

and he had all that luscious corporate money.

Major turn coats such as Koch will support him (although he can't vote in Connecticut), but I wonder how many people in Connecticut will.

[Leopolds Ghost]

16. There is no law that says you have to be part of a party... dude

State laws mandating political "affiliation" are a perversion of the Constitution, as the Founding Fathers noted.

[Atman]

24. You're right, but that really isn't even germane to the point.

Of course there is no LAW saying you have to belong to a political party. But try running a real campaign without one. Again, though, that isn't the point. There IS a party structure and a primary structure within whose boundaries Joe chose to play. His bid failed. Like any losing team, he should shower off, go home and wait until the next season. Team Joe was just in the semi-finals and got ousted.

(As long as I'm on sports analogies...there's no law saying you have to join the NFL to play football, either. But try fielding a team for the Superbowl all on your own.)

[VolcanoJen]

29. A to the Men!

Spot on.

[paulk]

40. everybody IS able to run as anything they want

Yesterday the Democratic primary voters of CT spoke. THE PEOPLE OF CONNECTICUT (your emphesis) will speak this November.

[krkaufman]

46. Well, Lieberman lost the right to represent the Democratic Party of CT ...

... in the CT Senate race. He still has the right to run as an Independent.

The sad thing will be if enough Democratic and Independent voters choose Lieberman in November to send him back to Washington. I'm hopeful, though, that the difference between the candidates will become clear between now and November, and Ned will win out.

[longship]

4. Yes we can.

This is the Democratic Underground, not the Independant Underground.

The people of Connecticut have already spoken. Lieberman lost. It's time for him to bury the hatchet and concede defeat. Game over.

You are perfectly free to support Lieberman if you want, but I don't think it's wise to do so on these forums.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

14. I guess you missed the part where I said I dislike him

...and pointed out his name is LIEberman.

Oh well, I guess there's a reason why we keep waking up every first Wednesday in November and finding the scum still there when we just keep repeating "THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!!!"

[Don Claybrook]

6. In case you missed it

the people DON'T want him. That was sort of the point of the primary, you know, the election in which the incumbent NEVER loses. But he did. And now he's trying to subvert the will of the people who put him there and subsequently decided to send him away.

He can run as a traitor, sure. And he can get air time with Hannity and Bennett and maybe even crazy Zell Miller if he broadcasts from a church or insane asylum somewhere. Meantime, we can dismantle him one centerist Democrat at a time. Now where's Chuck Schumer off to? He has a statement to make.

[brentspeak]

17. Why would we stupid enough to "dismantle one centrist Dem at a time"?

Are you that hell-bent on handing power over to the Republicans for the next fifty years?

BTW, what would you call FDR, Truman, and JFK -- left-wingers??

[Don Claybrook]

18. Also self-deleted

thank you, I appreciate it, and there's no need to leave my own vitriol here.

[brentspeak]

20. s/del

[Don Claybrook]

27. Thanks, you too.

I disagree with your views, and I wish that you had admitted that you either misread my post or read it selectively.

Nevertheless, I know we're generally on the same side and I like your grammatical style. I'm a big stringer-together-with-hyphens-guy myself, and I'll have to concede that you came up with a great one. Really, not kidding, but attempting to be lighthearted.

Aside from that, I think Lieberman has nowhere to go but down. He still may win (may he rot in hell), but with national party support leaving in droves, he's got nothing but Sean Hannity and crew. He's a traitor, and will look more and more like a vicious joke as time goes on.

[brentspeak]

31. Hopefully, Lieberman will drop out or otherwise flame out

and then Lamont can win the election.

[Don Claybrook]

32. I'm trying to envision the Lieberman candidacy

I definitely don't get a Jim Jeffords feel from it, and I can't help but thinking CT voters would turn on him. Republicans are only using him; surely he knows that. I hope he drops too. We'll see.

Thanks.

[brentspeak]

26. Sorry about the snarky comments

I must've drunk/drank too much coffee this afternoon.

[smoogatz]

23. FDR was WAY left of most of the present-day Dem party.

Hell, on most issues, Nixon was to the left of Bill freaking Clinton. FDR would be shocked, I think, to see how far right the country has drifted in the last thirty years.

[lumpy]

44. Politicians didn't fall into different categories

like left-wingers, neocons, centrists and all that jazz during FDR,Truman and JFK's terms. These terms are more famiiar and understood by political activists than Joe Doakes. Voters leaned towards either Dem, Repub or Socialist in FDR, JFK and Trumans day. Party 'loyalty' can go out the window when it come down to brass tacks. For the average voter, economic and foreugn policy determined how voters would cast their votes. I believe that would be the basis for voting today.

[smoogatz]

8. The most recent polling indicates a dead heat between Joementum

and Lamont in the GE, IIRC. But that was before Lamont won the primary, and before Joe announced he was going to crap all over the will of CT Democrats. I think it's way too close to call, less'n you got yerself a crystal ball.

[Jersey Devil]

9. You don't "know" who is going to win in November

What is your point? Lamont voters should have voted for Lieberman because they "know" Lieberman will win in November?

I see plenty of room for Lieberman's 48% to move over to Lamont. I don't see much room at all for Lamont's 52% to move over to Lieberman. Plus you are ignoring the fact that most independents, who did not vote in the primary, are anti-war. So how do you "know"?

[Raydawg1234]

55. Because he's a pessimest, glass half-full kind of person.

maybe he likes defeat.

[GreenArrow]

10. the bottom line is

that the national party is not going to give him anything -- no endorsements, no money, nothing. He can run if he wants, but he will lose.

It's not just Clark and Conyers, it's Schumer and Reid and Bayh and Kerry and Dodd and anyone and everyone with any kind of name and reputation in the party -- they are ALL endorsing Lamont. Lieberman will soon realize he has nothing to gain, and if he values his reputation at all, he will come to his senses and quit while there is still something left for him to salvage.

[Atman]

13. And who the hell will listen to him in Congress should he win?

He'll be unaffiliated. No committee spots, nothing. He'll be an outcast at his old job. It's like getting fired then suing your boss in a big ugly court fight and winning your job back. Sure, you got your job back...but do you really think you're still going to have any kind of good, productive working relationship with the company? You'll get the shit jobs, the worst office, the chair with the broken leg. Why would you savor such a "win?"

[Freddie Stubbs]

12. He can be stripped of his committee assignments

[tritsofme]

19. What would that accomplish?

All it would do is alienate him and possibly push him toward caucusing with the GOP and possibly tipping the balance of power in the 110th Congresss.

[Clarkie1]

30. It would accomplish a lot.

It would show that Democrats have some self-respect and will not place individuals who campaign against the Democratic Party in committee assignments.

Edit:

It would also take away any claim Lieberman tries to use that since he is a more experienced senator, he has and would potentially have more power in the senate. The Demcratic Party must make clear that from this point forward, unless he announces is support for the Democratic nominee, he will be reduced to the level of a freshman senator.

[w4rma]

37. I agree. He should be stripped of his seniority for leaving the party (nt)

[Freddie Stubbs]

39. Make it harder for him to beat Lamont

Without his committee assignemnts, he will be unable to bring federal dollars to CT. This will take away one of his biggest selling points.

[LittleClarkie]

21. Indeed, just like Nader, he has every right to run. But if he's going to

strip himself of his Dem moniker to do it, I say that he should now be treated as an Independant. Any benefits he might have from being a Dem should go to someone else.

People have the right to do anything they please. But there are consequences.

[Garbo 2004]

22. Joe assumes that those who voted for him in the primary will all vote for

him in the general election. I suspect he's wrong about that. He'll certainly lose those who will support the party's nominee regardless, which Joe isn't. And likely lose more Dems as he more overtly embraces Repub politics, rhetoric, money and bashes Dems. One suspects that may not be a winning strategy in Connecticut if he needs to retain a significant portion of the Dem vote to win which it seems he does.

I remember when many people said that having Lamont as a challenger was nice, but bottom line Lieberman was going to win the primary. We'll see about the general and if he's even still in the race come November.

[Marr]

25. Watch Lieberman's remaining Democratic supporters abandon him.

He's now a loser, and a sore loser at that. People don't like losers.

Also, running as an Independent after losing the Democratic primary is basically a big "fuck you" to the state's Democrats, and an admission that he relies on Republicans for support.

And another thing, if Lamont just uses relatively moderate language, Lieberman will have nowhere to run but to the right- and that'll put him somewhere in the neighborhood of Bill Frist.

Lieberman's over.

[fishwax]

28. Joe's candidacy will hurt democrats nationwide

because more resources than would otherwise be necessary will have to be spent in order to secure a democratic victory in connecticut (which is still far from impossible).

Of course we can't tell the guy not to run. But the fact is that everything he has accomplished has been a result of the support of the democratic party, the democratic voters of connecticut, and the infrastructure of the democratic party in connecticut. Without that, joe doesn't get to be senator in the first place. And now he's pissing on all of that because he doesn't feel any obligation or loyalty to the people and the system that put him where he is. So, yeah, we can't tell the guy not to run, but we can recognize his rejection of the system that created him as a thoroughly selfish and petulant act.

[skipos]

33. Another person who won'r acknowledge the rasmussen poll

that had Ned 40%, Joe 40%, Alan 13%. And that was before Joe got flushed down the toilet by Democrats in CT.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. What is exactly positive about that poll for a Lieberman hater?

And with three months to pull every Roveian trick in the book to get more Repugs and independants behind him? People are going to have to start campaigning for the Repug (Alan) just to get the heat off Lamont and remind Repugs they can vote for one of their own.

[skipos]

54. Lots.

That poll was taken before Joe was branded a loser. The poll was taken before Lamont was seen as someone strong enough to win the primary. People have only just started to take Lamont seriously. That poll was taken before most of the big name Democrats endorsed Lamont, while Joe gets his endorsements from Rove and the Whitehouse.

You'll have to explain to me how loser status and right wing endorsements are going to play out with independents in CT. Most independents in CT think Bush sucks, the War was a mistake, and Republicans are bad for the country.

I think Lamont has a lot of work to do, but fortunately it is clear the Joe is going spout Republican talking points for the next three months. I guess you think that will connect with independents and Democrats in CT. I don't think it will.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. Only if Lieberman is stupid will he take that tact

...and granted, he's been damn stupid this election season.

But you don't see Joe Liar showing up again in a few weeks to say to the voters of the state "You know me......you've known me for 18 years....why penalize yourself by making me the sacrificial lamb?"

The thing about Lieberman is he is a sleazy, smarmy bastard. I was saying this back before Gore picked him.....he oozes a schmucky charm to certain people that makes him dangerous to those (unlike the majority of Dems in CT. this time out) who can't see through it.

The fact that one of the major parties has absolutely NOTHING going for it makes this a bad spot for a backdoor win. Here's a race I would welcome the standard 30% of Repugs showing up to blindly back the elephant.

[Swamp Rat]

38. "... delay the inevitable." So, lay back and enjoy the rape?

Not me. I will vote in Democratic primaries no matter what because as a Democrat, I have the RIGHT to chose who will represent me.

[NNN0LHI]

41. Had people here telling me that Lieberman was going to win the primary too

They said the people in Connecticut just loved Joe.

That was when Lieberman was up on Lamont by 20 points.

I bet they all feel pretty silly now.

Just out of curiosity who did you think was going to win the primary two months ago?

Don

[Atman]

50. THE people in Connecticut obviously don't "just love Joe."

I'm one of them, and a very large number of us told him so yesterday. PEOPLE of Connecticut may love him, but not THE people.

He is a celebrity here, let's face it. He gave Connecticut national prominence and recognition through his presential/vp bids. Americans tend to love "celebrity," and he was ours. But just as with Mel Gibson, Brittney Spears, Dennis Miller, etc, Joe found out that celebrity is fickle and fleeting.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

51. I thought Lieberman would lose the primary all along

He just refused to back down on his war stance. Admirable for a politician....but dead wrong on the issue. Had he done like most politicos do during the primaries and appease the base by paying the lip service, he would have squeaked by in the end. His arrogance and belief that his party constituants were going to overlook that sunk him.

[Little Star]

42. My money is on a loss for Indy Joe. I think once

the hype dies down most will recognize that he can't be trusted. He is all about Joe and will screw his own party by being a spoiler. I really believe that now that the whitehouse has reached out, Joe will promise to go R if he is not doing well as an I. The man has NO SHAME.

[krkaufman]

45. Actually, as Dem leaders get behind Lamont ...

... Lieberman is likely to lose much of his Dem support. And then there's the effect that Joe, himself, will have on the voters of Connecticut, when they see what they have in Joe and compare it to the enthusiasm, energy and vision of Lamont.

I mean, for god's sake, Lieberman actually asked people to call in and tell him what he should be doing in Washington. He's an 18-year, 3-term Senator, and just finished a Primary campaign, and he doesn't know what he needs to be doing in Washington? Lieberman is not just out of Joementum, he's out of ideas -- and needs a nice long vacation.