The Joe Lieberman Legal Thread

[Dob Bole]

I'm interested in several aspects of Connecticut state law. It seems that instead of actually filing as an independent, Lieberman has filed to establish a new political party, called "Connecticut for Joe" or something like that. (Couldn't he at least call it "Joe for Connecticut?"...at least he's honest.) Apparently he'll get a better spot on the ballot by doing this. However,

1) Would you have to declare party affiliation to ask for a "Connecticut for Joe" ballot?
2) Can Joe appoint himself "Connecticut for Joe" candidate without a primary?
3) Would individual ballot status affect Republican or Democratic candidates running for other offices? (for example, would a person asking to vote in the "Connecticut for Joe" party have a ballot with only Joe on it?

4) Would Joe-supporters who voted in the Democratic Party primary be able to re-declare party status as a member of Connecticut for Joe, or do they have to use a Democratic (or Republican) ballot now that they've voted in the primary?

Other questions may come up, but that's a start.

[Dob Bole]

1. the one kick

[sinkingfeeling]

2. Uh, you don't vote by party in a general election. The ballot is the

same for Greens, Dems, Repubs, or CFJ. The question is could any other person in Connecticut declare themselves a political party and be immediately put on the ballot.

[Skidmore]

3. As opposed to being selected as a candidate by an established party?

Am I understanding your question properly?

[Dob Bole]

4. Right. Can a person legally make himself a party, without being chosen? nt

[yodermon]

6. Isn't there something to do with gathering petitions?

a certain # of petitions has to be gathered, etc., which Joe managed to do some weeks back?

[MercutioATC]

7. 7500 signatures must be submitted to place oneself on the ballot.

Joe has 18000.

I believe anybody can submit 7500 signatures and get themselves on the ballot. The reason Joe formed his own political party was to exploit an election regulation that puts all party candidates at the top of the ballot and all tru Independent candidates below them.

[Dob Bole]

8. So...what is required in CT to form a party, then?

Because if the people who signed Joe's petition thought they were signing for Joe to run as an Independent, not signing up for a political party, then a class-action suit could sue him right off the ballot, could it not? ;)

[MercutioATC]

10. No idea.

It's probably as easy as filling out some registration form.

But I doubt anybody was misled...Lieberman filed the paperwork for "Connecticut for Lieberman" weeks ago.

[yodermon]

26. here's a very cynical idea:

Are candidates listed in alphabetical order by party on the General Election ballot?
"connecticut for lieberman" would appear before "Democratic".
:shrug: ?

[MercutioATC]

27. If it's like Ohio, they're randomized by precinct.

I don't know about CT.

[Shrek]

13. Here's the law

Sec. 9-453u. (Formerly Sec. 9-378m). Reservation of party designation.

(a) An application to reserve a party designation with the Secretary of the State and to form a party designation committee may be made at any time after November 3, 1981, by filing in the office of the secretary a written statement signed by at least twenty-five electors who desire to be members of such committee.


(b) The statement shall include the offices for which candidates may petition for nomination under the party designation to be reserved but shall not include an office if no elector who has signed the application is entitled to vote at an election for such office.


(c) The statement shall include the party designation to be reserved which (1) shall consist of not more than three words and not more than twenty-five letters; (2) shall not incorporate the name of any major party; (3) shall not incorporate the name of any minor party which is entitled to nominate candidates for any office which will appear on the same ballot with any office included in the statement; (4) shall not be the same as any party designation for which a reservation with the secretary is currently in effect for any office included in the statement; and (5) shall not be the word "none", or incorporate the words "unaffiliated" or "unenrolled" or any similarly antonymous form of the words "affiliated" or "enrolled".


(d) The statement shall include the names of two persons who are authorized by the party designation committee to execute and file with the secretary statements of endorsement required by section 9-453o and certificates of nomination as required by section 9-460.


(e) The secretary shall examine the statement, and if it complies with the requirements of this section, the secretary shall reserve the party designation for the offices included in the statement and record such reservation in the office of the secretary. The reservation shall continue in effect from the date it is recorded until the day following any regular election at which no candidate appears on the appropriate ballot for that office under that party designation.

[Dob Bole]

16. Thanks...

now that just leaves the question of whether people who signed the petition knew that they were not, in fact, supporting an Independent candidate.

[Norquist Nemesis]

11. 18,000???? WOW! I wonder how many of them just stayed home

knowing that Joe was going to be on the ballot in November either way!

He's touting only 8% of CT voters (or thereabouts low BS percentage) justifies (entitles?) him to run and let "all" the voters decide. If that's the case, why didn't he do that in the first place and just skip the Democratic primary? :banghead:

Traitor Joe!

[Skidmore]

14. He thought he'd win by using the Democratic party machinery

and funding mechanisms. Remember how much he has whined about all of Lamont's personal wealth. Lieberman had a much bigger warchest and spent more. I imagine he's not exactly impoverished himself.

[Atman]

15. I definitely know of two of them.

Unequivocally stated that they have no need to vote in the primary because they'll be able to vote for Joe in November.

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. Your post yesterday is what made me think of it

Those "well connected" Indys. I still wouldn't be surprised IF Joe would win that he would gladly flip to (R) to get a Chair and/or change the majority back to Cons. In a heartbeat.

[Atman]

20. Ironically, I don't think he'd betray the Democratic party that way.

He'll betray it the way he did last night. I genuinely believe Joe is sincere in thinking he is a Democrat. I think deep down he's a good man who lost his way, another one corrupted by the opulence of Washington dining rooms, the perks of being a made man, and the money/power began to cast a dark shadow across his field of vision.

That may sound strange coming from me, because I've been as vocal an anti-Joe poster as the next DUer, but I know that I haven't always felt such contempt for the guy. He's done truly good things in his career, and has indeed been "a good democrat" for a long time. But once he veered off the democratic path and refused to look back, fuck him. What have you done for us lately, Joe?

Hey, Joe -- I'm sorry for your loss, buddy. Or, I empathize. I know it must crush you to find out you're not as popular as Karl, the GOP and Haddasah tell you you are. I know it hurts. But as soon as you get this behind you and accept it, the sooner you can begin to get on with your life.

As a lobbyist or Bush cabinet member.

[Skidmore]

5. Kick, cause I want to know too.

[undeterred]

9. How about the "Sore Loserman Party"?

It has a ring to it.

[Dob Bole]

12. I guess I'm wondering at this point whether Joe can be sued off the ballot

He collected 18,000 signatures for an Independent run. But did the signers know that they were signing up for a new political party? That is the question. I guess we won't be able to know until we know who some of the signers are.

[Shrek]

18. Apparently the petition form makes it clear

From the instructions for the petition application:

Petition Form: Before any electors may sign a nominating petition page, the blanks at the top of the page must be completed. Each candidate's name, address, the office sought, the election date, the party designation, if any, and the town (and district, if applicable) in which the petition will be circulated must be stated. No changes in such information may be made after any person has signed the page and the Secretary of the State will not count the signatures on any nominating petition page which has omitted this information. Each applicant will be issued one petition form that must be reproduced prior to receiving signatures.

[Dob Bole]

19. "If any..."

That's the key, whether people declared a party for Lieberman or not.

Incidentally, CT's Secy. of State is a Democrat. Here is her website:

http://www.sots.ct.gov/

[Shrek]

22. I think the petition included his party designation

That's what enhances his ballot position:

Secretary of the State Susan Bysiewicz said Lieberman will be able to secure a higher position on the November ballot by creating a new party rather than petitioning his way on as an individual. Bysiewicz said Lieberman would be fifth on the ballot under the new party, compared with eighth or ninth as an individual.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13813555/

The article also mentions that the petition paperwork and the party paperwork were filed at the same time, so it seems likely that the former includes the designation declared by the latter.

[Dob Bole]

21. Aha! There is already an "Independent Party" in CT!

http://www.politics1.com/ct.htm

Now then, it is quite possible that 18,000 people signed up for the Connecticut for Lieberman party. (Lord knows, he REALLY wants to keep his Washington lifestyle.) However, if any of the signers left the party affiliation blank, they assumed Joe was running as an independent and he has improperly used their signatures to form his new party. And if any of them marked "Independent" on the petition, they have tried to nominate him as the Independent Party candidate, and those forms are invalid!

Not to mention possible misspellings, or "hanging chads" that we could finally use to our advantage.

[Shrek]

23. I didn't read it that way

The instructions say that the party designation has to appear at the top of the petition along with the candidate info. The signers of the petition don't provide it.

[Dob Bole]

24. Ah, got it.

I thought you meant that there were individual petitions to join a political party. Instead, it seems that there may be just one petition with a stack of signatures under it.

[Cerridwen]

25. Lieberman had no intention of running IND, he's been creating

his own party since he announced this petition.

To create the party requires the petition listed below which states that it requires 25 electors to sign on with the new party.

The petitions signed, would have had the new party name on them? Unless he was using the primary race petition which would be invalid for use with the new party creation?

This is why he and his operatives were so secretive about the peitions people were signing. They weren't for Joe to run as an IND, but for him and them, to create a new party.