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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:14 PM
Original message
"Christians United for Israel" in meetings with White House (BE AFRAID)
Haven't seen this posted on DU yet, but I think it
bears examination. It appears that the separation of
Church and State are just so "Old American Century..."

I have just recently seen a television commercial for these
nut jobs, so we know they have some money backing them.
My first guess would be a defense industry contractor.

Take a deep breath, read the article and then tell
me not to be concerned...not!

BHN

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.mhtml?i=20060814&s=new_christian_zionism

"Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism
by MAX BLUMENTHAL
Washington, DC

Over the past months, the White House has convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a newly formed political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel's expansionist policies is "a biblical imperative." CUFI's Washington lobbyist, David Brog, told me that during the meetings, CUFI representatives pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah.

The White House instructed Brog not to reveal the names of officials he met with, Brog said.

CUFI's advice to the Bush Administration reflects the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee. Hagee is a fire-and-brimstone preacher from San Antonio who commands the nearly 18,000-member Cornerstone Church and hosts a major TV ministry where he explains to millions of viewers how the end times will unfold. He is also the author of numerous bestselling pulp-prophecy books, like his recent Jerusalem Countdown, in which he cites various unnamed Israeli intelligence sources to claim that Iran is producing nuclear "suitcase bombs." The only way to defeat the Iranian evildoers, he says, is a full-scale military assault. "

Did you catch that line?
"CUFI's advice to the Bush Administration reflects the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee."
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. Catapulting Armageddon
Whackos run this country.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes, it is becoming increasingly clear, isn't it?
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 04:19 PM by BeHereNow
Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse.
These people are so dangerous.
BHN
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. Party true
but there are thieves among them using Wackos to further their agenda. Bush said 'crusade' in 2001 and that is his plan. I cannot beleive this absolute madenss taht is going on in the US. Who will stop these lunatics?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. True Christians would not support war or killing of any kind. So,
following that logic, these people are not ...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. They most certainly ARE NOT Christians
Which is why they scare me.
I am a Christian and I know exactly who these people are.
And therefore, I can not help but note their misuse and twisting
of the scripture of Isaiah, the very verse after the
one Bush used in his "Mission Accomplished" speech.
(Basically calling himself the Messiah)
Look out folks, we are heading for strange days,
as if it could get any stranger...

BHN

http://www.cufi.org
Statement of Purpose
The purpose of Christians United For Israel (C.U.F.I.) is to provide a national association through which every pro-Israel church, Para-church organization, ministry or individual in America can speak and act with one voice in support of Israel in matters related to Biblical issues.
“For Zion’s sake I will not keep silent, for Jerusalem’s sake I will not remain quiet, till her righteousness shines out like the dawn, her salvation like a blazing torch.”
Isaiah 62:1

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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. They Are Christians
although their brand of Christianity is completely foreign to this Christian

I'm not able to prove that they aren't Christian
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Read 1 John 4- You don't have to prove it, the scriptures do.
Verses 6, 8 and 20 are all you need to know about these "Christians."
BHN

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.  
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. True enough, "can't prove they aren't". Didn't the original definition
of Christian mean "follower of Christ"? Where did Jesus teach this stuff they are spewing?

Jesus taught the "gift of Grace", that grace of God which freed man from "the Law". This foreign brand of Christianity revolves around "the Law" and ignores Christ's teachings of grace and love.

Maybe we could get them to call themselves OT Biblicans or something. They are like the Pharisees of old.
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OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #22
81. They may be "Christians" but
they are NOT followers of Christ.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. If there were any real Christians, they would adamantly oppose Hagee and
Falwell, Brog, Robertson and the war-mongering, hate-mongering, fear-mongering, death cults currently in vogue amongst "Christian" circles.

But, problematically, so many claiming to be "Christians" noticeably don't speak out against these men, instead sitting idly by, and their silence connotes consent.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. There ARE Christians who are VERY outspoken...
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 05:01 PM by BeHereNow
They are blacked out in the defense contractor
owned media.

Before the initial invasion of Iraq, the elders
of the Methodist church requested a meeting
with pumpkin head- they were concerned
about his use of scripture, as any thinking
Christian has been since he started
cherry picking scripture to justify un-Christian acts.

Bush refused the meeting.

That would be because he is not a Christian
and therefore does not know what the scripture
says about such matters.

Try to discuss that situation with a fundie
and it will become clear in a matter of seconds
that they don't know what the bible says either.

BHN
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
55. I agree. That pretty much says it all.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
73. the logical conclusion is that they have turned anti-Christian....
maybe this was predicted in the bible. I'd hate to support a losing side in the apocolypse.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. Not a surprise. But it does make me feel ill.
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partylessinOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is exactly why our founding fathers wrote a constitution that
mandated the separation of church and state.

I am very afraid everytime they want to bring in religion into our government, our governmental buildings and our White House.

Yes, be very afraid. Religion for war is crazy.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Did you catch this line?
"The White House instructed Brog not to reveal the names
of officials he met with, Brog said."

Gee, what's the big secret?
BHN
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Skip Intro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Its been going on a while...link:
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 04:37 PM by Skip Intro
http://www.unknownnews.net/apocalypsenow.html

scroll slowy down for headlines like these, going back as far as 2002:


*Cheering for apocalypse, evangelical lunatics counsel Bush White House

*Is Bush getting apocalyptic advice?

*White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move (May 18, 2004)

*Apocalypse preacher says White House solicits his advice:

Excerpt: I am not sure whether knows all of the prophecies and how deep of a student he has been in God's Word, but I was contacted a few weeks ago by the Office of Public Liaison for the White House and by the National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice to make an outline. And I’ve spent hours preparing it. I will release this information to the public in September, but it’s in his hands.

- Jack Van Impe


more at link

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thanks for the link- hadn't seen that one before-
I used to get updates from the Yurica Report
(Katherine Yurica) but I haven't heard from
them in a very long time.
She has a tremendous archive of the lunacy
going on behind the curtains in the White House.
http://www.yuricareport.com/

BHN
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. John Hagee, the CUJO of CUFI.
If these idiots are such nuts about Jesus coming back soon, they'd sell their mansions in The Dominion in San Antonio (yeah, that really is the name of a super-rich subdivision) and give their assets to the poor to make good with God. Instead, they are looking to prey upon the weak, like mad dogs.
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for posting. This is crucial information about what many of us
around here have been warning others about.

Religious extremists of any kind are the worst thing to happen to this country and planet. The founding fathers must be rolling over in their graves! This is exactly the kind of thing that they tried to prevent! :scared:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. I have to say again wtf? Where are the Democrats!?
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 04:43 PM by leftchick
This is a perfect attack on a senseless foreign policy based on a religious belief! WHERE ARE THEY? Oh I know, don't want to piss off the evangelicals and RR now do we? On the really RARE chance ot might make a fucking difference? :puke:
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hagee is a NUT CASE.....18,000 people got theirm minds stolen
and dats only in San Antonio...

Come, we go to the LONE STAR BREWERY
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
14. Wow. I bet the Israelis are real grateful.
You know, for the "Armageddon-based foreign-policy views".

Especially the ones who know how that story is supposed to end.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Unfortunately, being Jewish, they DON'T know how it ends!
Some Jews are familiar with some of the bible,
at least my Jewish friends are, but in that most
Jews don't really read the bible, and I would guess
not many in Israel do, they DON'T know that they
are supposed to be obliterated if they don't convert.

Of course we know in the neocon view of the situation,
the manipulation of people to obtain their goals
is the only thing that matters and they certainly
don't care if civilians every where are obliterated.

The neocons don't care one way or the other
what happens to Israel, they just want total
dominance in the ME.

If they allow Israel to be destroyed, and it looks
like they are trying their best to get an Arab country
to do just that, then a great number
of nut cases are going to be very surprised
when their "Jeebus" who is not even remotely
related to my Jesus as made clear by their
hate mongering, does not appear.

BHN
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Huh?
"Most Jews don't read the bible".

Which Bible?
I think that's an awfully broad generalization.

Anyway, this blather isn't IN the bible, any of them... AFAIC. It's in those stupid Tim LaHaye Books.
(Of course, as far as I'm concerned, they're ALL complete works of fiction, including the various Bibles. All the more reason not to let people write laws- or foreign policy- based upon 'em.)

And I think "most Jews" are pretty well aware of who Fundamentalist Christians are--- and what their agenda is. You'll notice which party "most Jews" tend to vote for.


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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. My friend who is Jewish has never read the NT and
therefore was completely surprised by the Fundie take
on Armeggedon.
I didn't mean to generalize, but I really don't think
most people, not just Jews, know just what the
Fundies believe.
I have seen it up close and personal and you are correct,
it is NOT in any way shape or form in the bible (OT or NT)
what they believe, that is.

The dominionist fundies want to see a
return to stoning among other completely
bizzare things in the judicial system.

Most people DON'T know that.

BHN
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Nikki Stone 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Lots of weird shit flies under the "Christian" banner these days
...
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. You're right... Maybe 'cuz I'm an atheist, I make it my business to know.
'Course, I was running around years ago saying that after abortion, the "pro-life" movement would go after birth control- just like they're starting to now.

Call me Nostradamus.

This is a good site for keeping taps on the dominionists, etc.

http://theocracywatch.org
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Actually, it is found in Revelations...
"And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel."

That's the cut-off for how many Jews will make it to heaven and only those who bow down to the "lamb", so in other words, those who take some jesus character as their savior. It's also not necessarily just the fundies who are taught and believe this...they are just the ones who took it and ran with it.

The fundies I know can't wait til the Jewish people can all be sent back to Israel, to be consumed in the hellfires, so to speak, for denying jesus.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Yeah, well, when "Bob" shows up he's gonna smite 'em all
with his righteous PIPE!

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schrodingers_cat Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
49. Wow! Bob looks just as good as he did in the eighties
do tell, who is his surgeon?!?


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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. I'm Jewish And Sure Have Heard About The Ending
In college...back in the stoned ages...I had a fundie in my dorm who all but was stalking me. He was from a small rural town and said he had never met a "real live" Jew before...like I was from another planet. I'm sure he was looking for the horns his pastor had told him would be there. Sorry...only the big nose. He then discussed Armagedon and wanted to know which "tribe" I belonged to and how I could be his "salvation"...or his meal ticket to the big dance. Talk about being creeped out.

Jews sure as hell know about the bible...the old testament sure gets a workout at my synagogue. The new testament? Where I come from that's nothing but a best seller.

Lieberman, like many of the neo-cons, are orthodox Jews who have their own views of the end of the world that are just as goofy. Just check out those who follow the Kaballah.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #72
78. I'm curious
In post #71 I posted a link to an excerpt from a piece written by Barbara and Michael Ledeen about 'conservative Christians and radical Jewish nationalists.'

You mentioned at the end of your post, "Lieberman, like many of the neo-cons, are orthodox Jews who have their own views of the end of the world that are just as goofy. Just check out those who follow the Kaballah."

In the info I've read about neoconservatives, I have read very little about any of their religious convictions. I have read about the philosophical basis of neoconservatism (i.e., Strauss, Trotsky, Machiavelli, etc.), but it remains unclear to me whether a majority of those we have come to know as neo-cons have a particularly religious view that may or may not be influencing their decisions currently, like an end time belief involving the Middle East, etc.

In the link to Ledeen's article, I asked, somewhat rhetorically perhaps, "Given the neocon manifesto that 'is' Ledeen, are they true believers or stirring things up to manipulate the masses through religiosity?"

What's your thought on this?
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. I'll Take A Crack At This...
Every year at the end of the high holidays...the Jewish New Year, the Shofar sounds and a chant goes up "Next Year in Jerusalem". Until 1948, this was a rallying cry for the diaspora...or the nearly 2,000 years since the 70 A.D. expulsion of the Jews from Israel by the Romans. The concept is not just of visiting Jerusalem, but rebuilding it to its King Saul splendor with a temple and homeland for the Jewish people. From my studies, this was never the "Greater Israel" some claim here, but area around Jerusalem...and that it was "god given".

For many of these neo-cons, they grew up in the post-holocoust era where Jewish identity was going through a big transformation. Most of us grew up with the "long hard struggle" of the diaspora, the horrors of the holocoust and the fagility of Israel. No matter if Israel has 1,000 atomic bombs, its the concept of being surrounded by enemies (a repeating story in Jewish history) that drives a lot of phobias and thoughts of many Jews I know. It's that mindset that drives the Israel above all mentality that some Jews have.

Kos had a great post today about "Bloomberg Repugnicans"...rich, east coast Jews who have this Israel first attitude and have turned into Repugnicans, Likudniks and Neo-Cons (many were Democrats at one time) due to the perpetuating story of Israel being under constant threat...which in turn is a threat to their owns lives. For many Jews, the biggest lesson of the holocoust is "it could happen here"...more than "never again"...and that a militarily powerful Israel is somehow their security blanket as well.

The other night I was appauled when I saw a Jewish Rabbi who had defended Mel Gibson and continued to do so. The host then asked, how can you forgive a man who hate your people and believes in what your religion says is a "false messiah". To that, this rabbi replied "well we'll find out if it was the right or wrong messiah when he comes". That's the kind of talk that scares the crap out of me.

Cheers...
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #79
82. Thank you, KharmaTrain
for your response. I'm currently reading "Jews, God and History" by Max Dimont, which gives an interesting perspective and which includes some of the points you touched upon.

I am still very curious, however, whether Michael Ledeen, for example, actually holds extreme religious beliefs that influence his opinion and actions, or whether he and others like him merely use religiosity to motivate the masses as a means to their end. That is why I found the article he had written on the subject back in the 80's so interesting -- it was as if he was foreshadowing what we are witnessing presently with the extremist religious groups perpetuating this Middle East turmoil.

I find that the melding of this extreme religiosity with politics quite disturbing. I do not think in our lifetime that the US has ever planted its foot so firmly in the Middle East in the name of its leaders' religiosity. I cannot recall a time that it has.

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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. Did you see this?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Hey Lars, yes I did- I posted this info there but
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 05:14 PM by BeHereNow
I don't think many people actually clicked on the
Blumenthal article-
That is why I started a thread here; in hopes that
some DUers would take the time to actually
read it.
It is incredible to know that our foreign policy
is being dictated or even influenced by these
whack jobs.

What is really terrifying to ponder is
whether any of the peopl in the meeting
actually believed or listened to them.

Note that Blumenthal was told by Brog that
the White House instructed him not to
name any of the attending officials...
WHY would that be?

BHN
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. While These Nutjobs Scare Me
meeting with the Bush Administration does not constitute a mixing of church and state

stick with it's a bunch of fucking nuts meeting with a fucking nut (bush)

there's no official sanction to this meeting despite Hagee's greatest desires (which is probably to see the ME go up in flames)

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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I wouldn't dismiss Hagee so quickly. He's scum, but he's extremely
resourceful and dangerous. He put that group together in less than 6 months. They've been actively beating the war drums on the hill starting with their rally back on July 19.

I posted this when it first came out in one of the many Israel/Lebanon threads when this group was lobbying Congress for that "suppport Israel's right to defend herself" vote. I also just posted it to the LBN thread referred to up stream, but it may get more discussion/attention here in BHN's thread.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0727-11.htm
Christian Right Steps Up Pro-Israel Lobby

snip>

Last week, while the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict continued to escalate, Christians United for Israel (CUFI) -- an organisation founded less than six months ago by Texas evangelist Rev. John C. Hagee, pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas and the author of "Jerusalem Countdown," a 2006 book about a nuclear-armed Iran -- rolled into Washington for its first major get-together.

More than 3,400 delegates from across the United States attended the inaugural meeting.

CUFI kicked off the gathering on Jul. 19 with its "A Night to Honour Israel" banquet at the grand ballroom in the Washington Hilton. The festivities attracted a number of high-profile Israeli and U.S. political leaders, including Israeli Ambassador Daniel Ayalon, retired Israeli defence chief Lt. Gen. Moshe Yaalon and Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman.

According to a report posted at Israpundit, Hagee read greetings from President George W. Bush and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. Bush commented: "God bless and stand by the people of Israel and God bless the United States."

Olmert's letter referred to CUFI's "bold stand at this crisis time," and the group's acknowledgement of Israel's biblical 'birthright'."

The following day, at a well-attended press conference, Hagee said that "The dots are there to be connected and it is not some big thing called terrorism. It is Islamic fascism... all of the various things and forces that we've seen around the world are not merely hot spots but they are all part of a theme -- a war against western civilisation."

more...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. THANKS 54nickel! I think your link is an important addition
to this thread.
We need to keep an eye on these people and
wage our own phone and letter compaigns
to counter their lunacy.
BHN
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Initech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
29. These people scare the shit out of me
People like John Hagee are insane. They should be committed to a maximum security mental facility. :scared:
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. Not only do they seem to have influence on your foreign policy
They own most of your voting machines. If they wanted to, they just could take over.

God would frown on diplomacy - WHA???? What happened to thou shalt not kill - and something about Love One Another That Is The Whole of the Law - the rest is commentary. (I may paraphrase, but I think I'm close on these)

I must have been reading hippie literature as a child in Sunday school

In the early 1980s, brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich founded ES&S’s originator, Data Mark. The brothers Urosevich obtained financing from the far-Right Ahmanson family in 1984, which purchased a 68% ownership stake, according to the Omaha World Herald. After brothers William and Robert Ahmanson infused Data Mark with new capital, the name was changed to American Information Systems (AIS). California newspapers have long documented the Ahmanson family’s ties to right-wing evangelical Christian and Republican circles.

From:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

For example, at Diebold -- whose corporate chief, Wally O'Dell, a top Bush fundraiser, has publicly committed himself to "delivering" his home state's votes to Bush next year -- the election division is run by Bob Urosevich. Bob's brother, Todd, is a top executive at "rival" ES&S. The brothers were originally staked in the vote-count business by Howard Ahmanson, a member of the Council for National Policy, a right-wing "steering group" stacked with Bushist faithful.

Ahmanson is also one of the bagmen behind the extremist "Christian Reconstructionist" movement, which openly advocates a theocratic takeover of American democracy, placing the entire society under the "dominion" of "Christ the King." This "dominion" includes the death penalty for homosexuals, exclusion of citizenship for non-Christians, stoning of sinners and -- we kid you not -- slavery, "one of the most beneficent of Biblical laws."


From:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=2223
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Thanks for the links Sinti! There is a great deal of this on
another site too:
http://www.yuricareport.com

I watched up close and personal as the Ahmanson
family invaded my daughter's school.
They began dictating curriculum and content
according to x-tian standards.
One of the parents who was involved with them
actually tried to get
"The Color Purple" removed from the
English reading list.
They are thugs and cretins.
And they are invading every corner
of our public institutions and structure.

BHN
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. OK, now THAT'S freakin' me out! "Christian Reconstructionist"?!?!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. How did you miss all the prior DU discussions on them?
The CR's were a hot topic here a few years ago.
They make the nazis look like boy scouts.
Katherine Yurica's site has all sort of articles on them-
If you visit to read, take a stiff drink with you.
http://www.yuricareport.com
BHN
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I dunno, it was either before my time here on DU or I was too busy
watching the Markets.

I've followed the Dominionist fairly closely for a while, but that line about the CR and their theocracy - which by the way doesn't sound much different from the extreme Islamic fundamentalists idea of theocracy (same brutal idea of law and order) caught me by surprise. I mean stoning sinners and executing homosexuals? What damned laws are they going to be passing anyway?

No wonder fundies get upset when you tell them Allah is the same as "their" god. Looks like their hatred is the same hatred too. Fundies, you really can't tell one kind from the other can you?
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Don't be afraid . Be prepared to fight them tooth and nail
for the soul of you nation ;)
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. "Be prepared to fight them"....Hmmm, I am starting classes in
Theology this fall at Seminary...maybe this "fight" is my calling? NAH! Can't be.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I hope so-
I think you'd be good at it.
BHN
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Thanks BHN. Guess ya never know what's in store for ya until it
happens.
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Sinti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #41
63. Sure it can - the Truth is a mighty powerful weapon :)
Good luck to ya :)
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. Forget Pat Roberstson, JohnHaggee has become enemy no. 1.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
43. I posted yesterday and it sunk in all the primary madness in CT.
Either that or nobody loves me. :-(

Thanks for reposting. It needs to be read.

:yourock:
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
56. I love you, and yes, it probably sunk in the heated CT moments
So not to worry!
I'm sure it was NOT because no one loves you at DU!

:hug: :loveya:
BHN
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Megahurtz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
45. "Armageddon-based foreign-policy views"???
:wow: Holy Shit! These WingNutcases do intend to take us all down with them!:nuke:

All I can say is be prepared.

As much as we are able, of course!

:hide::yoiks:
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
46. No argument from me. I've been following the trend because
we're going to have to do something about all those parochial private schools which are indoctrinating the kids to believe that it's their job to bring on the end of times.

I did find this little gem that might alarm you even more:

www.prophecynewswatch.com
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Okay, THAT IS SOME SCARY SHIT
Here is some more for you to digest:
From a "Jews for Jeebus" message board,
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2006/aug.htm

BHN
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SPKrazy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Just Think, This Whole Nutjob Movement All Started
about 150 years ago in Scotland, when a young woman had a fever and had "visions" and these visions were taken as prophecy.

this started the whole movement of believing in a "pre-tribulation rapture of the faithful", which is really what this whole movement is aiming for!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Scotland. Someone, please give me a rundown on why Scotland
seems to be the source of so many controversial events. They say the KKK originated there, now this rapture thingie, the golfcourse Abramoff junkets, Heritage-style organizations. What's up with all that?
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Don't forget the ones being groomed for politics. I also remember
reading an article about a month or so ago where they are teaching the little ones to be soldiers for Jesus, willing to die for their faith - this was grade school kids. I've been trying to track it down again. Here's the article on the political training.

GOD AND COUNTRY
A college that trains young Christians to be politicians.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/050627fa_fact

In the last days before the 2004 Presidential election, Patrick Henry College, in Purcellville, Virginia, excused all its students from classes, because so many of them were working on campaigns or wanted to go to the swing states to get out the vote for George W. Bush. Elisa Muench, a junior, was interning in the White House’s Office of Strategic Initiatives, which is overseen by Karl Rove. On Election Day, she stood on the South Lawn with the rest of the White House staff to greet the President and Mrs. Bush as they returned from casting their votes in Texas. Muench cheered along with everyone else, but she was worried. Her office was “keeping up contact with Karl,” and she knew that the early exit polls were worse than expected. Through the night, she watched the results, as Bush’s electoral-vote total began to rise. The next morning, after Kerry conceded, she stood in the crowd at the Bush campaign’s victory party, in clothes she’d been wearing all night, and “cried and screamed and laughed, it was so overwhelming.”

I found Muench in the Patrick Henry cafeteria at lunchtime one day a few months later. She is twenty-one years old and has clear, bright hazel eyes and sandy-brown hair that she straightens and then curls with an iron. Patrick Henry is a Christian college, though it is not affiliated with any denomination, and it gives students guidelines on “glorifying God with their appearance.” During class hours, the college enforces a “business casual” dress code designed to prepare the students for office life—especially for offices in Washington, D.C., fifty miles to the east, where almost all the students have internships, with Republican politicians or in conservative think tanks. When I met Muench, she was wearing a cardigan and a navy skirt. The boys in the cafeteria all had neatly trimmed hair, and wore suits or khakis and button-down shirts; girls wore slacks or skirts just below the knee, and sweaters or blouses. Most said grace before eating, though they did it silently and discreetly, with a quick bow of the head.

Muench told me that she loved working for Rove—answering the phone and having a senator on the line, meeting Andrew Card, the chief of staff (“He’s a nice guy”), and Vice-President Dick Cheney (“He’s really funny”). She took a bus from Patrick Henry at six every morning to arrive at the White House by seven-thirty. Her work with Rove, she told me, affirmed her belief that he was a political genius.

In her sophomore year, Muench had become the first—and, so far, the only—woman at Patrick Henry to run for a student-government executive office, when she entered the race for vice-president. Campaigns are unusually intense at Patrick Henry; candidates hire pollsters and form slates. One of Muench’s friends, Matthew du Mée, was on an opposing slate, and the race caused a strain. (Both lost.) Muench’s internship with Rove has given her a reputation, much envied on campus, as someone worth knowing. The day we spoke, a sophomore leaned across the table and asked, “How much do you make, starting salary, working on the Hill?”

more...
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. These people are so obsessed, that they don't see any contradictions
in their behavior, when they lie and cheat to win for Jesus.
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FooFootheSnoo Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. I saw their commercial on Fox news the other day
they were going on and on about Christians standing with Jews, etc. ad nauseum. What in the hell is going on? *Sigh* I wish J.C. would have mercy on the world and rapture these nutjobs already!!
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. You saw the same commercial I did-
Hours later, a friend sent us the link to the
Blumenthal article.
I gotta tell you, the whole thing
has the hair standing up on the back of my neck...
And DO check out Koko's thread on the
Wolfie Blitzed CNN interview thread
with Pat Roberston in Israel...waiting for the big "A"
And hey-
Welcome to DU.
BHN
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FooFootheSnoo Donating Member (304 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. thanks BeHereNow
I saw the other post that you mentioned. Strange days.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. Yes, strange days indeed...
Did that commercial totally creep you out, or WHAT?
The combination of the commercial and the
Blumenthal article made it a sleepless night for me.
The lunatics are running the asylum.

BHN
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R for the religious fundamentalist nutcases in the Whitehouse
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:22 PM
Response to Original message
59. And Arlen Specter is one of them....his Chief of Staff works for Hagee
now...UGH! Who would think that Arlen would be another Jew for Jesus....

We never saw this coming...did we?
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
60. those people believe in destroying the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the
Rock in order to build the Temple of Solomon for the purpose of ushering in the second coming of Christ. They also believe in the expulsion of all Palestinians from all of the Occupied Territories and Israel itself. It doesn't take a foreign policy expert to figure out the results of these actions. Unfortunately, they do have some allies with power in the American Congress and Administration and some allies among influential right-wing Israeli politicians.
______________

But to be fair -- Not all Evangelicals support this madness --

Here is a link to an Evangelical organization - Sojourners -(BTW I am not an Evangelical or even a religious person) that has been outspoken against U.S. and Israeli policy:

link for Sojourners:


http://www.sojo.net /

This is a link to Sojourners Magazine:


http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060727#6

link to articles concerning the Lebanon crisis:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=060727#6

Note: Sojourners was the organization the sponsored the conference in Washington, D. C. that Sen. Obama, Gov. Dean and Sen. Clinton spoke at about two months ago.


this is an example of some of their work:

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_archives&mode=current_opinion&article=CO_031217

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5505







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Popol Vuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
62. Brand of Christian
They are the same Christian that slaughtered my ancestors, to quote, "to save them from themselves". The same Christians all throughout history who used the mindset of "Thou shall not suffer a witch to live" to justify conquering and subjugating people.

If you haven't already seen this episode of Democracy Now, here's a link:

"The Christian Right and the Rising Power of the Evangelical Political Movement"





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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #62
69. Popul Vuh
Ever read that part in the Poopul Vuh about the GODS blinding us?

In the Popul Vuh it was written, how early on when mankind was first made by the gods. It was said they saw the whole of reality, they observed the dome of the sky and comprehended it. They saw through mountains. They understood the whole of it and they were powerful, beautiful, wise, noble, and radiant beings that were tenderhearted, creative, and strong like Gods ...

But the "gods" who made them got jealous of the people they’d made, because they really wanted servants — who would praise them, take care of them, tend the altars of sacrifice, and never leave them to fend for themselves and do it creatively. They created us to be servants capable of praising them in our own words.

The "People" the "gods" made before us were wood mannequins, and the gods were frustrated because the mannequins could not praise them with creative words and art. Eventually the world itself destroyed them, even pots and pans smashed their faces out of hate at being mistreated by them. This is because the intention of the gods all along was to create servants who were like themselves but also had no soul.

The gods tried again. They mixed their own blood and breath and jizz into clay in an experiment to make willing slaves who had enough of a spirit just to praise them creatively.

And they got us. And we scared them.

The gods didn't want any rival Gods, with clear vision and free will too… So what did these "gods" do to stay on top?

They blinded mankind. They deliberately restricted what we see to only what is near us, and that made humanity ignorant, and small-minded, tribal, and focussed on himself. Like the gods that made him, but not quite.

So man was blinded to serve the "gods," and praised them with art, song, and service. (think PRAISE TEAMS)The gods never went hungry for the altars were never unattended. Until the likes of folks like First Jaguar managed to knock some of the film off of his eyes long enough to create a smoking mirror…...
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Popol Vuh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #69
76. Thanks for your post undergroundpanther.
:hi:



In Mesoamerican religious practices, to include the Maya Popol Vuh, the gods fashioned the present human race, the people of maize, to supply nourishment in the form of prayer and sacrifice to the gods.

The sacrifice offerings could be in the form of bloodletting, or more dramatically, the sacrifice of individuals. In both cases, the act signified the offering of self, either by individual voluntary bloodletting, or collectively with a human victim. The concept of retribution was closely tied to the act of sacrifice. The reason is, because in exchange for life, humans needed to acknowledge and even reimburse the forces that made life possible.

The Aztecs (who did the most sacrifices) viewed human sacrifice partly as retribution for cosmic theft. According to Aztec belief, Ehecatl-Quetzalcoatl stole the bones out of which people were created from the underworld death god.

Similarly, in the Popol Vuh, the pregnant Xquic escapes from the underworld to give birth to the hero twins on the surface of the earth. In ancient Mesoamerican thought, humans survive on not merely borrowed but stolen time.

-------------


I find the religions and culture of my ancestors very interesting - to say the least. It amazes me to no end how much knowledge they possessed and how amazing their cities were and yet you hardly hear or see anything about it unless you take it upon yourself to do your own research -- in stark contrast to the many television shows you can often see with respect to ancient egypt, rome, greece, etc..

I am not necessarily angry about that, but I do admit that I find it to be quite telling. That is why I always enjoy meeting someone such as yourself undergroundpanther, who has knowledge of the past concerning Mesoamerican history.

I myself though am not religious. I do however astral project and understand, or I believe I understand, what my ancestors called the spirit world. That's another whole topic altogether. :)



P.S. Their calendars they developed just blow me away. Totally amazing...



mp3








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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #76
80. Thank you! A comment.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 05:00 AM by undergroundpanther
Popul Vuh wrote...
<The Aztecs (who did the most sacrifices) viewed human sacrifice partly as retribution for cosmic theft. According to Aztec belief, Ehecatl-Quetzalcoatl stole the bones out of which people were created from the underworld death god.

Similarly, in the Popol Vuh, the pregnant Xquic escapes from the underworld to give birth to the hero twins on the surface of the earth. In ancient Mesoamerican thought, humans survive on not merely borrowed but stolen time.>

I think the MesoAmericans maybe truly saw the future (now and in the coming years remember the 2012 issue). They saw Earth as living on borrowed time as you say. The people back than,not knowing what to do,and only knowing the medicines they had at the time, they sacrificed over and over to give ahead of time try to forestall what is happing to this world today,they saw ..and it terrified them.
If you look at the historical time line of how civilizations develop there is a period of human sacrifices,in each one when agriculture started and they started cutting into the Earth and soon the Iron age came and with it Empires... Every empire type that grows is built upon the blood of dead sacrifice. The Aztec maybe tried to pay for the gifts that are wrenched from the smoking mirror in advance to maybe lessen the cost to us,which very well could have been them long ago(maybe a cycle of reincarnation?) .

The Smoking mirror I think is the willful imagination plus ambition that impulses spirit to make material reality change and produce new creatively.This is the trait of gods and we have that power,We made things like computers and cars as far as we know no civilization in the past had these things.It came from willful imagination before anyone built one.It was pulled out from the smoking mirror and because there was no foresight in the desire like with cars the repayment for that gift being manifest is the Earth Herself heating up..

We are beholden ,enchanted by The White eyed monster,which I think is as Gnostic's say,the archon,.I call it a Glitter Maggot based on my own vision.And this mind is most selfish, greedy,ambitious, blind and arrogant half maker 'god'.
http://www.wovoca.com/prophecy-cherokee-monster-with-the-white-eyes.htm
http://www.unknownnews.net/031208a-up.html

Yaldabaoth was the first of the archon ("ruler") and he stole his mother's power, and was able to escape from the cloud. Despite gaining Sophia's aeonic power, he was weak, but power hungry.
http://www.timelessmyths.com/mirrors/gnostic.php#Barbelo


Or this archon could be seen as the parasite hierarchy mentality infecting western society. The greedy that forces others to work and obey and does not respect their sacred person-hood or needs ..the arrogant elites who built these word twisting psychologically destructive social systems to build the parasitic predatory 'leaders'dreams of opulence and fantasies of control and utopias and force these fantasy dramas to be acted out in materiality and we obey like a script which imposed on us, manifesting the ambitions of these sick leaders.Through their exploitation of the smoking mirrors inside us all,they take the good soul and harness it through trauma and twisted words.

When these psychopaths get total control the world,and can dominate the hearts and minds of the peoples the end of time comes I suspect..because all smoking mirrors will be pointing in the direction the exploiters want and they will try to become gods and the great mystery will not stand for that.And we will be set free and the material existence as we know it will be something else without the Archons in it.

It appears to me material reality itself cannot fill the insatiable consuming of these hungry ghosts of those lacking the spark of spirit for domination control and more.Nothing here will fill them up. They who are archons who thirst and can never be satisfied,materiality has limits to how much it can be abused,exploited,dominated and worked into exhaustion.That's why humans got to live in harmony and in balance with material reality as long as it is here and not let certain kinds of personalities get to power,People got to try to think ahead to the consequences of getting thier desires in this world ,careful to not exhaust reality and abuse it/us and get us all in a kind of debt to the point the Earth herself is not enough to pay for the things taken from the gods within through the smoking mirror..Not everything should be permitted to manifest...

Here's something I remember hearing about how Native American prophecy works. We(humans) can stop any potentiality,when a future is revealed to a seer 'cause it is both a potential or a message/warning.So in the unconscious of everyone who senses it it opens up a "decision" to be made by the collective un consciousness that gets expressed through individuals actions and art. So if enough change is made the balance is tipped and if tipped twords harmony it could forestall the doom or it could bring it on.I fear too many people have chosen bring it on. I hope the election of Lamont is a reflection of a spiritual change on a deeper level in humanity that will bring balance back to this world before it is too late.

These times are unfriendly toward Worlds alternative to this one.
Rev. Cherrycoke, in Mason & Dixon (359)

Social hierarchy means parasitic social relationships. Judeo-Christianity uses the concept of sin to bring people into their web of centralized control. The metaphor which the Judeo-Christian Bible uses to describe this intrinsic parasitism is a cannibalistic one: "eat of my flesh, drink of my blood," with the explanation that the human sacrifice of Jesus Christ will "take away sin."

People will spend all day in the Church, doing penance for their sins, seeking ritual purity. Indian religion is the same as Christianity in this way. Guilt is one of the hooks used to catch people's psyche. It's a necessary part of the economic system and often motivates people to donate all their worldly goods to the church (or to other charities which buttress the overall structure), because they are sinners. There have been, and can be again, harmonious, balanced communities without such psychological distortion.

... The people of Western Civilization say, "you are free." Free is an abused word. From what I have experienced in Euro-American society, and in studying their languages, I haven't found anything that was free, yet. There was always a price, and it was usually a very high one. Ahnishinah­bæótjibway do not need to say, "you are free." There is no word-for-word translation of the English word free in our language. Freedom was just a natural part of life, without anything un-free as a comparison.

http://www.maquah.net/We_Have_The_Right_To_Exist/WeHaveTheRight_03TOC.html
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
64. Thanks BHN. I posted (different article) about this witches brew
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:25 AM by chill_wind
of activities and influences some few days ago here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2758018

A couple instances, actually. With the exception of a couple good kind Duers'responses, I could not get it out of the basement, as much as I tried.
I'm relieved to see this gaining some serious attention and to realize I'm not the only one having bad, bad dreams about the potential of this.

It will be a fatal miscalculation for our beltway elite strategists to blow this all off.
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #64
65. I didn't sleep last night after reading the article...
Which is my way of saying, "I HEAR you!"
Wait until you see their television commercial.
It will make your skin crawl.

BHN
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #64
66. Per the article- "And even including some Dems"
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:45 AM by chill_wind
But it doesn't cite them by name. Still, I keep thinking about that sweeping Pro_Israel Resolution. The dual cudgels of any "anti-Israel" "anti-Christian" accusations are apparently far too powerful and too toxic for most Congress members to want to risk. Especially when this politically conflated.


Edit to add: And by now we have looked at the lobby and Pac monies to know who gets hefty chunks. (I have those in my journal for anyone who's never delved.). It's a lethal environment.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
67. IMPEACH the chimp he is not of sound mind.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:47 AM by undergroundpanther
HAGEE...
This guy is a fanatic cultie.His taste in furniture is straight out of Saddam Hussein's palace,French provincial gold leaf Ugh.

Interesting how these fanatics obsess over the script(Revelations) and than ACT IT OUT and pretend they are not SETTING IT ALL UP DELIBERATELY,by maneuvering foreign policy to fit the script and call it"prophecy"and lie to fleece the flocks,who are more than willing to be fed a boatload of lies that flatter their egos with fantasies of elitism they will never feel on Earth.,the flocks are so suicidal /homicidal and in denial about it they'd destroy the earth to be a priest king in heaven with the motherly daddy they dare not wish they had on Earth lest they'd feel WEAK...Can you get any more of a nurturing male role model than Jesus on the surface,look at every picture of him,long hair doe soft eyes,delicate*gasp* ladylike face,,Coincidence? NOT...A nurturing vampire with fangs that will kill with the sword of his mouth.Sounds like a twisted abuser sociopath daddy to me..and these fundie freaks are projecting him everywhere he is not,they craft their castle in the clouds and drag the entire world into it. Manipulating asshole bully fanatics ,with no contact with reality preying upon those who feel worthless and need to make believe someone cares even if they are invisible and never really help.The fantasy is what they are ADDICTED to.. These Neocons are insane and morally depraved psychopaths.They NEED to be removed from power..how many people are going to have to die and be bankrupted before this cabal of corporate fascist Straussian manipulator cult's is OUT and powerless?
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Absolutely. But Congress on both sides are also under some very
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:53 AM by chill_wind
heavy Lobby/PAC money influences, too. BOTH sides. That needs fixed too, no matter who takes up the WH next. Look at Hillary. Look at McCain. And many more. Look at the Israel/Lebanon bombing resolution they overwhelmingly passed just weeks ago. BOTH sides.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #68
70. Money needs to be taken out of government.
Maybe MONEY needs to be taken out of certain hands lest they destroy us all,they are like two year olds running wild with scissors in a crowd.

Something must be done to stop the backroom deals and bribery,going on.Hmmm...maybe remove THEIR privacy,they see it so fit to spy on americans who are innocent with the NSA and to use the bloated black budget that Congress does not oversee that has no accountability the black hole sucking all our tax money that could be used make OUR lives better and to fix the woes we face if it was taken OUT of certain hands....Just saying...
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #70
74. Could not agree with you MORE
about this very root of root cancers on the process. ALL the big money. Not just the special interest groups and religious pacs etc, but the mil/defense contractors--- obscene.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
71. Check out these other threads on related topics
I am very concerned, and have been keeping track of these things for some time now:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1734756#1736360

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1716530#1718718

And then, of course, we have Pat Robertson on with Wolf Blitzer today in an oh so casual conversation about Armageddon and Roberston's meeting with Olmert...
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #71
75. Thanks for the links and...
Olmert and Robertson "praying" together is all we need to know, eh?
Very scary indeed.
When the wolves mate with the wolves in sheep's clothing,
we know a wolf pack is upon us.

BHN
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. Satan enables Olmert and his cohorts
Who else would openly cause the deaths of innocents?
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. so where does loony moonie come into this
Armageddon scenario? You remember him, don't you? The one who was crowned, with his wife, in one of those senate offices. Is he supposed to be the new Messiah, cause after all, Jesus didn't quite get it right?
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Good question and research suggestion-
There are not any names on the CUFI web site,
no board of directors or anything.
I would be interested in finding out who
the behind-the -curtain players are...
Any ideas on how to find out?

BHN
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #84
91. Here are a few more names associated with CUFI
Some of those included in CUFI leadership are: George Morrison, Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer, Steven Strang, Mac & Lynne Hammond, Jesse Duplantis, Benny Hinn, Paul Walker, Billie Joe Daugherty, Billye Brim, Rod Parsley, Larry Huch, Rick Joyner, Kenneth & Gloria Copeland, and many more.
http://www.cfaith.com/PUBLIC/public_article_display/0,7615,17918,00.asp

The CUFI board of directors, by the way, is made up very well-known figures, including Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer and George Morrison (chairman of the board of Promise Keepers). Other CUFI personalities include Parshall, Rod Parsley, Ron Wexler, Joyce Meyer, and Benny Hinn. In addition to supporting Israel, all of these people are also opposed to feminism and gay rights, and any form of liberalism. Hagee is closely associated with Tom DeLay, Meyer came close to having her ministry investigated by the IRS, and Hinn has been accused of avoiding financial accountability for his faith-healing ministry. Another of their close colleagues, Rabbi Daniel Lapin, is closely associated with both DeLay and Jack Abramoff.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/2006/08/christian_zioni.html

Many Christian denominational leaders - who represent some 30 million evangelical Christians in the US - have expressed support for CUFI in writing. These include such names as Dr. Jack Hayford, president of the Foursquare Gospel Church; Paul Walker, assistant general overseer of the Church of God; international Pastor Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church; Benny Hinn; George Morrison; Kenneth Copeland; Steve Strang; Matt Crouch of the Trinity Broadcasting Network; and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer, president of the Family Research Council. The latter is the Washington-based lobbying arm of James Dobson's Focus on the Family.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1139395509016
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

First, a snip on Hagee:

Israeli Officials tell U.S. Pastor of “Nuclear Showdown” with Iran

If you want to find out Israel’s policy on Iran, apparently you need to consult a new book by Christian Zionist pastor John Hagee. Christian Retailing reports in its 23 January edition (paper only, page 8, emphasis added):

Texas pastor and author John Hagee has sounded the alarm in his new book on the gathering war against Israel, which he says will have worldwide ramifications.

With an initial printing of 250,000 for its Jan. 17 release, Jerusalem Countdown provides detailed information that Hagee has received from top Israeli government officials concerning a nuclear showdown between Iran and Israel.

…The world is “standing on the brink of a nuclear Armageddon,” Hagee wrote. “We are on a countdown to crisis. The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty…That war will affect every nation on earth, including America, and will affect every person on planet earth.”


Of course, it’s difficult to judge how much of this Hagee really got from “top Israeli government officials”, and how much is his particular “prophecy based” apocalyptic spin on the subject. It's also a rather odd way for Israeli officials to communicate their intentions; one would have thought that keeping their own citizens informed would have been more of a priority. But on the face of it, it looks rather alarming.

http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2006/02/11.html

****************************************************************************************************

George Morrison:
Key to the end times

In contrast to Haggard's approach at New Life is that of Faith Bible Chapel, a 6,000-member evangelical mega-church in Arvada, a northwest Denver suburb.

Considered the foremost bastion of Christian Zionism along the Colorado Front Range, the church was the first congregation to adopt a settlement through CFOIC. Its Israel ministry, headed by the pastor's wife, Cheryl Morrison, conducts annual trips to the Holy Land and sells fruit baskets and grocery coupons to raise money for its adoptive settlement, Ariel. The church dispatched its own busload of protesters for the anti-Ashrawi rally at CC, where Cheryl Morrison spoke.

Inside the church's spacious atrium is a decorative wall made of stone that the church's pastor, George Morrison, purchased in Jerusalem. Large letters on the wall spell out a line from Psalm 122:6: "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem." Seven video monitors throughout the atrium likewise urge congregants to pray for Israel.

"It's so key to the End Times," Pastor Morrison says in explaining his church's devotion to the cause. "It's so tied to the culmination, the wrap-up of the world as we know it."

Morrison, whose casual, folksy manner belies his apocalyptic beliefs, already sees signs that the End is approaching. The European Union, he says, might be the alliance of nations that according to prophecy will join the Arabs to wage war against Israel during the final days.

"Great wars will begin to take place," Morrison says in a matter-of-fact voice. "Those wars are going to involve nukes."

The extent of the destruction will prompt Jesus to return in order to stop it, Morrison believes. Unfortunately, he says, many Jews will be killed.

"It's another Holocaust, if you will," Morrison says.

http://www.evolvefish.com/freewrite/New-Stories_8-2003.htm

*****************************************************************************************************************

Steven Strang:
Hagee’s book is published by Strang, the Pentecostal publisher that is responsible for Charisma magazine (and Christian Retailing itself, as it happens). The owner, Stephen Strang, is a greatly supportive of Christian Zionism, and he uses his powerful position to promote the doctrine among Pentecostals and Charismatics (although Charisma’s editor, Lee Grady, has a rather more thoughtful approach, as I blogged on here). The report also tells us (link added):

…In addition to an aggressive direct-marketing campaign, Strang is teaming up with El Al, the national airline of Israel, to promote Hagee’s new geopolitical book. El Al is offering two trips for two to Israel in a sweepstakes promotion…Strang’s promotion campaign will include the authors in a brochure about Israel featuring scriptural reasons for supporting the country…The campaign will also be featured during the Azuza Street Centennial celebration in Los Angeles, April 25-29.

http://blogs.salon.com/0003494/2006/02/11.html


Dear Friend of Israel:
Israel is under siege as never before. At the same time that suicide bombers are increasing, and world opinion is turning away from Israel, the fanatical president of Iran is calling for Israel to be erased from the face of the map.

John Hagee has focused on these concerns, especially on the threat from Iran in his new book called "Jerusalem Countdown." In only three months this book has sold more than 630,000 copies making it a major bestseller.

Now I am creating a new, free weekly newsletter that is to be sent to those people who love Israel. It will give information about Israel and will include things that we are doing in an effort to try to motivate people into action when action is needed.

I intend to pass along useful information which crosses my desk and share my opinion of current events. I will also give useful information regarding other things that we are publishing, including an important new book by David Brog that is releasing on May 9. The name of the book is "Standing With Israel." David is a Conservative Jew who for seven years was chief of staff for Senator Arlen Specter. He writes convincingly that evangelical Christians are Israel's best friends.

http://www.standingwithisrael.net/

Because of the mounting threats to Israel, we don't have a minute to waste. Israel is going to need our support in the coming months, and we must do everything we can to make CUFI a major political force before we are called into action.

http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=13065

In 1973 Steve Strang, a senior in journalism at UF, walked off with the Hearst Foundation’s top national journalism writing award. Twenty-five years later—he heads a communications company that the Orlando Business Journal lists as #70 in its “Golden 100” in central Florida, and with annual revenue of $24 million.

~snip~

Just three days after he graduated, Strang joined The Orlando Sentinel as an admittedly “cocky reporter.” He says his editors cured him of that in a hurry. While at the Sentinel, Strang began moonlighting as editor of Charisma, a new magazine he helped start at the Assembly of God church he attended. In 1981, he and his wife, Joy, bought the magazine from the church.

Today—Strang Communications not only publishes Charisma, which has grown to a 250,000-circulation monthly, but five other magazines. They include:

Vida Cristiana, a bi-monthly version of Charisma in Spanish, with a circulation of 25,000;
Ministries Today, a bi-monthly targeted for ministers and staff in churches;
Christian Retailing, a bi-monthly which goes to Christian bookstores;
New Man, a 300,000-circulation magazine that was developed in association with (but is independent of) the Promise Keepers organization (with whom Strang had a three-year marketing agreement); and
Spirit-Led Woman, the newest publication, with a circulation of 85,000 (credit Joy for its inspiration and success).
The company also includes Creation House, which publishes religious books and Christian education materials.

And Strang is host of “Charisma Now!”—a 30-minute TV program aired on cable by the Trinity Broadcasting Network.

And the company has a presence on the Internet.

The crown jewel of his operation is still Charisma, an award-winning magazine which appeals to a core readership of charismatic and Pentecostal Christians, but attracts other evangelical readers.

Strang Communications is a family affair. Joy, who earned a degree in finance at the University of Central Florida, has been the chief financial officer of the company since 1981. They have two sons—Cameron, 22, a recent graduate of Oral Roberts University who is an editor in Nashville; and Chandler, 11, a middle-schooler. Ever the entrepreneur and networker, Strang was off to Seoul, Korea, in September for the Pentecostal World Conference. One stop on his trip was Japan, where he hoped to promote a Japanese version of Charisma.

http://www.jou.ufl.edu/pubs/communigator/Archives/f98/alumni/distinct/stories.htm

*******************************************************************************************************************

Rick Joyner:

Joint Prophecies of Rick Joyner & Rabbi Cohen
at Messiah'99
Hashivenu.org is a Messianic Jewish organization located on the campus of Fuller Theological Seminary. Its president, Stuart Dauermann, a doctoral student and teacher at Fuller, was also a past speaker at the Lausanne Consultation on Jewish Evangelism (LCJE). The first "'Core Principle of Hashivenu" states: "Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, and not a cosmetically altered 'Jewish-style' version of what is extant in the wider Christian community." Among Hashivenu's "Favorite Links" is listed The Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA).

In July of 1999, the MJAA sponsored Messiah'99, a conference held in conjunction with the Young Messianic Jewish Alliance and the International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues. The Messiah '99 Brochure announced that conference speakers would include Rick Joyner of Morning Star Ministries, Stephen Strang, editor of ‘Charisma’ Magazine and Stephen Katz, a recruiter for Jews for Jesus. These speakers were presented as being among "Over sixty of Messianic Judaism's most respected teachers conducting Workshops, Panels, Teaching, Preaching. . ."

In a joint presentation to Messiah '99, MJAA President Rabbi Robert Cohen and Rick Joyner of MorningStar Ministries laid out a prophetic vision for the Messianic Jewish Movement. Highlights of the Prophecies given by Rick Joyner and Rabbi Cohen are as follows:

:redbox: The 1970s, when Jerusalem returned to Jewish hands, was the end of the Gentile Age.
:redbox: The 1990s are moving on the spirit of revival that began with the Jesus Movement, which was the source of the Messianic movement.
:redbox: The Messianic people are a prophetic righteous remnant, "that are calling the Church back to their Jewish roots" and "they are back to become a prophetic call to the nation of Israel."
:redbox: Messianic people are, "THE HEAD," meaning, of the Body of Christ and the First Fruits.
:redbox: Whole communities will come to Y’eshua because of their witness.
:redbox: Jews and Gentiles will be looking to the Messianics to explain the Word of God.
:redbox: Joyner expressed a concern that Messianics: ". . .would not be corrupted by too many relationships with the Church" and that they are not supposed to be like the Church nor the Church like them as that would, "mess everything up."
:redbox: Racism is one of the ultimate enemies.
:redbox: There is a revolution going on in the Church.
:redbox: Reconciliation happens when there is restitution, and there’s going to be a lot of restitution for the Messianic people as Jews.
:redbox: Messianic people will have a better ability to witness, heal, discern and utilize spiritual gifts than others.
:redbox: Messianics are going to help us (the Church) restore our foundations to where they belong -- and we won’t get where we’re supposed to be without their help.

Rick Joyner, whom Rabbi Cohen considers a friend and a "righteous Gentile," was informed that he was the first Gentile ever to speak at their conference. Joyner, who is also a Knight of the Order of Malta,1 which Joyner states is not a Masonic Order, associates with other modern prophets like James Ryle of Promise Keepers (pastor of Bill McCartney), Andrew Strom, Jack Deere, Francis Frangipane, Dudley Hall, Mike Bickle, Bob Jones, Paul Cain and others who were involved with the original "Kansas City Prophets", the Vineyard, and the Charismatic movement. The End Time Prophetic Visions website provides a current listing of modern prophets which includes all of the above along with Messianic and Catholic prophetic organizations.

http://www.seekgod.ca/cohenjoyner.htm

******************************************************************************************************************

Mac and Lynne Hammond:

Lynne Hammond is nationally known for her teaching and writing on the subject of prayer. The desire of Lynne’s heart is to impart the spirit of prayer to churches and nations throughout the world. Her books include Secrets to Powerful Prayer, When Healing Doesn’t Come Easily, Dare to Be Free, and The Master is Calling.

She is the host and teacher for “A Call to Prayer,” a weekly European television broadcast, and is an occasional guest teacher on her husband’s national weekly television broadcast, “The Winner’s Way With Mac Hammond.” She also regularly writes articles on the subject of prayer in Winner’s Way magazine and publishes a newsletter called Prayer Notes for people of prayer. Lynne is a frequent speaker at national prayer conferences and meetings around the country.

Lynne and her husband, Mac, are founders of Living Word Christian Center, a large and growing church in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Under Lynne’s leadership at Living Word, the prayer ministry has become a nationally recognized model for developing effective “pray-ers.”

http://www.lemstone.com/e/authors.asp?index=282&mode=view

*************************************************************************************************************

Jesse Duplantis:

He is known for telling humorous personal anecdotes in his sermons, to the point of changing lives. People consider his teachings refreshing and not religous. Jesse Duplantis has written many religious books such as: Jambalaya for the Soul, Heaven: Close Encounters of the God Kind (in which he claims to have spent several hours in heaven), "Wanting a God You Can Talk To" and God Is Not Enough, He's Too Much.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Duplantis

****************************************************************************************************************

Paul Walker:

http://www.churchofgod.cc/about/leadership/3assistant_overseer.cfm

*****************************************************************************************************************

Billie Joe Daugherty:

Billy Joe Daugherty is Senior Pastor of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa Oklahoma and host of a tv show seen on Daystar.

~snip~

Pastor Billy Joe and his wife Sharon are the pastors of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma. They are very humble and honest. Their church has over 800 home bible (cell) groups. The cell groups take place in believers homes every day of the week. If you are looking to attend a Christian church in the Tulsa, Oklahoma area, I recommend this church. Their website is www.victory.com God Bless, Mike Lizotte

http://www.rateitall.com/i-839356-billy-joe-daugherty.aspx

******************************************************************************************************************

Billye Brim:

Billye Brim was born again at the age of eight in 1947 and was brought up to love God and His Word. After her initial in-filling of the Holy Spirit in 1967, she began the journey of fulfilling the call of God on her life.

Billye served as editor of publications for Kenneth Hagin Ministries from 1970 to 1980, as well as editing books for several other well-known Bible teachers including Dr. Lester Sumrall. In 1972 she began ministering regularly at her local church in Collinsville, Oklahoma. In 1980 she began traveling full time both nationally and internationally, with her focal points in Scandinavia and Europe. She has also ministered seven times in the Soviet Union.

After the homegoing of her husband in 1986, the Lord led Billye to study Hebrew in Israel. Working primarily through a Jewish ulpan (special language school), she takes Christians to Israel at least twice a year to see modern-day Israel through Jewish eyes. Bible prophecy is an important part of Billye's teaching. Billye is a frequent conference speaker (numerous times at Brother Kenneth Copeland's Believers Conventions) and ministers in churches, Bible schools, family camps, and on television. The emphasis of her ministry is on the Glory of God and His Glorious Church. She truly loves the Body of Christ and desires to see it become the Glorious Church Jesus promised to receive unto Himself.

http://www.harrisonhouse.com/AuthorInfo.aspx?IDA=51

Billye Brim, a Christian prayer leader and founder of Billye Brim Ministries who had visited Gush Katif weeks before its evacuation, noted on her website: "Is there a connection between ? I believe so. Is this judgment? I believe so. And I must say it. Outright! Many won't like to hear it. Many won't agree. But I believe America is in danger and something has to be done. ... America needs to repent. From Bush, Rice and the State Department on down. America must repent for actively opposing God's plan for Israel as revealed in His Word."

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:eft1dbAosuYJ:www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp%3FARTICLE_ID%3D46178+Billye+Brim&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=20


*****************************************************************************************************************

ROD PARSLEY:

THE RAGING PROPHET

It is hard to describe a “worship service” led by pastor and television evangelist Rod Parsley. Whether viewing at home by way of his popular daily television broadcast, Breakthrough, or as part of his 12,000-member congregation, his services could, perhaps, be described as a hybrid of pep rally, boxing match and professional wrestling with smatterings of Bible verses and hyped-up claims that take people over the edge of hysteria. It is primal scream set to spiritual aerobics. Parsley is the ultimate cheerleader and professional boxer combined. He deftly and quickly moves people into altered states of unreality. There is no question that he can be a compelling and convincing speaker. Neither does he have difficulty or qualms about hosting the worst of Word-Faith teachers and promoting their agendas.

Rodney Lee Parsley charges back and forth across the stage of his World Harvest Church in Columbus, Ohio, sweating profusely, railing against the devil in a demonstration of heart-pounding Christian calisthenics and his crowds love it.

~snip~

Even his Charismatic colleagues acknowledge his showman traits. Charisma, in its cover story, called him the “electric evangelist” and described him this way:

“Part warrior, part cheerleader ... Parsley’s growing congregation and nationwide audience have come to expect both sass and savvy from this entertaining preacher. ... And he’s not afraid of shock-value preaching. ... Parsley appears to be a good showman.”1

~snip~

Parsley tells his people they should believe for millions. He makes no apology for being mercenary:

“Parsley is upfront with his congregation about the church’s need for money. ‘I just love to talk about money,’ he told them. ‘I just love to talk about your money. Let me be very clear — I want your money. I deserve it. This church deserves it.’”16

~snip~

Parsley is also a dominionist. This too, grows out of the Word-Faith error. Dominionism teaches that powerful anointed men will bring in all the benefits (healings and miracles) of the millennium, creating a Utopia to which Christ will return. Somehow they will reverse the consequences of the Fall and totally subdue disease and the hard circumstances of life.

http://www.pfo.org/parsley.htm

Issue Date: 11.10.05 When Zell Miller took the stage at one of Ohio’s largest “megachurches” last August, there was no talk of spitballs or duels, but there was plenty of rhetoric about soldiers and war. As the featured speaker at both a regular Sunday-evening church service and a political rally for about 1,300 pastors the following morning, the former Georgia senator wasn’t talking about gun-toting soldiers bringing democracy to the Middle East. Instead, to the delight of thousands of congregants at the World Harvest Church in Columbus, Miller spoke of Bible-toting Christian soldiers bringing theocracy to America.

The apostate Democrat came to Ohio as the special guest of televangelist Rod Parsley, a rising star of the Christian right who was lifted from political obscurity onto the national stage for his role in mobilizing voters in favor of his state’s gay-marriage ban last year. Parsley, a Bible-college dropout who claims to have begun his evangelical career in his parents’ backyard by preaching to a tiny congregation nearly 20 years ago, now boasts a 12,000-member church with affiliated schools offering education from preschool through college; a daily television program, Breakthrough, seen on the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) and other fundamentalist-Christian television outlets; a 2,000-member fellowship of affiliated churches; and a political organization, the Orwellian-sounding Center for Moral Clarity. But Parsley, who is hailed by the theocratic Christian right as a model of virtue and a representative of “values voters,” has been questioned by congregants and even his own family about his church governance and secretive fund-raising practices.

“Probably President Bush would not be in office today had it not been for him,” said Bishop Harry Jackson, a black pastor from the Washington, D.C., suburbs and a fellow rising star in the religious right. A registered Democrat who said that he and Parsley share the same theological and political viewpoint, Jackson runs the High Impact Leadership Coalition, which promotes its “Black Contract With America on Moral Values.” That effort has led Jackson into alliance with the Arlington Group, a coalition of the Christian-right political elite with which Parsley is also affiliated. According to Jackson, Parsley’s style of preaching is “very, very user-friendly to African Americans,” which may explain why the white pastor has a congregation that is 40-percent black. Jackson also maintained that Parsley’s work with Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, as a “black and white team” campaigning for the gay-marriage ban in churches across Ohio, created the “ricochet effect” of bringing out voters for George W. Bush in 2004.

Jackson was careful to point out that Parsley did not explicitly campaign for Bush, which would have jeopardized his church’s tax-exempt status. But that was something Parsley clearly wanted to do in light of his $2,000 contribution to the Bush-Cheney campaign and his outspoken contempt for the Internal Revenue Service rules that prohibit clergy from endorsing candidates. His tag-team campaign for the gay-marriage ban with Blackwell -- who was not only the state co-chair of the Bush-Cheney re-election effort but also supervised the election as secretary of state -- certainly provided support to Bush. Now, through campaign contributions and joint public appearances, Parsley is supporting Blackwell’s bid to become the Republican gubernatorial nominee in 2006.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=10473

Now, Christian evangelical ministers in Ohio are teaming-up to form a network intent on building on their constituency's extensive contribution to both President Bush's victory and the passage of Issue 1 -- an amendment to the state constitution banning same-sex marriage -- and help Christian conservatives take over the state's Republican Party. The Reverend Rod Parsley and the Rev. Russell Johnson are two key players in an effort to wrest control of the GOP from so-called Party moderates. Their job has no doubt been made easier by the fact that Republican Party officials have been enmeshed in a series of political scandals that even includes the state's Republican Governor, Bob Taft. (For more on the governor's troubles, see, MoveOnTaft.org, a website recently jointly established by the conservative American Policy Roundtable and the liberal Ohio Citizen Action).

Americans must be ''Christocrats" -- citizens of both their country and the Kingdom of God -- the Reverend Rod Parsley told his congregation on a recent Sunday at his World Harvest Church, located just outside Columbus, Ohio. "And that is not a democracy; that is a theocracy," he said. "That means God is in control, and you are not."

~snip~

The Ohio Restoration Project
In late March, the New York Times reported that the newly established Ohio Restoration Project (ORP) was "planning to mobilize 2,000 evangelical, Baptist, Pentecostal and Roman Catholic leaders in a network of so-called Patriot Pastors to register half a million new voters, enlist activists, train candidates and endorse conservative causes in the next year."

~snip~

While the ORP plan says that it will not specifically endorse candidates, it will invite Blackwell to speak at pastoral meetings and to a statewide Ohio for Jesus rally scheduled for next spring. Along with the homegrown Rev. Parsley, other national Christian evangelical leaders to be invited include the Rev. Franklin Graham, Focus on the Family's Dr. James Dobson and the Prison Fellowship Ministries Charles Colson.

http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=83

An evening with Rod Parsley
by Marley Greiner
July 20, 2005

The spring of 2005 has been a banner for Columbus' tele-revivialist cum spiritual adviser to the Republican Party, Rod Parsley, Pastor of World Harvest Church in Canal Winchester; interviews in James Dobson's daily online news commentary Citizen Link and Chuck Colson's Breakpoint; features in Charisma Magazine, the Scaife owned Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, the Columbus Dispatch, the Other Paper and the Newark Advocate; and citations in the New York Times and Dallas Morning News.

Also, there was the op-ed in the Charlotte Observer and the photo-ops with Sen. Sam Brownback. He was hobnobbing with old friends Ken Blackwell, Cincinnati moral crusader Phil Burress, former Ohio Congressman, Bob McEwen, former Alabama Supreme Justice Roy Moore, Texas Governor Rick Perry, and Family Research Council President Tony Perkins. Let's not forget his Center for Moral Clarity, the Ohio Restoration Project, and his Patriot Pastors. And, of course, the launch of his 12-city Silent No More book tour at World Harvest on April 16 which brought to town rightwing writer and TV starlet Ann Coulter, Christian insult comedian Brad Stine, and another old friend, former UN Ambassador, presidential candidate, and recreational mosher Allen Keyes.


~snip~

I've attended numerous Biblical American events in arenas, convention centers, churches, and in the streets with big names including Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer, Tom Delay, Don Wildmon, D. James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, Gerald Ford, Flip Benham, Ron Luce, Josh McDowell, Ken Starr, Phyllis Schlafly, and Roberta Combs, but I have never experienced the spookiness that gripped World Harvest that evening. The guy behind me asked several times, "Have you ever seen a church like this?"

~snip~

Rod Parsley has always had an image problem. He's the pastor of one of the largest churches in Central Ohio. He runs a Bible College, a prep school, and the Center for Moral Clarity, a "political ministry" that sponsored the book launch, rally and other events of a political nature. He takes his crusades all over the country and overseas; he's got an international viewing audience. He hangs out with nationally known politicians, advises Ken Blackwell....

http://www.freepress.org/journal.php?strFunc=display&strID=301&strJournal=34


More on his antics here: http://www.letusreason.org/Popteach7.htm

*****************************************************************************************************************

Larry Huch:

Thousands of Evangelical Christians have met to lobby Congress on behalf of Israel. The five-month old group, called Christians United for Israel, is the Christian equivalent to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) Public Action Committee (AIPAC) and intends to work with the Jewish lobby.

Israeli Ambassador to Washington Danny Ayalon addressed the convention and warned them that "Islam-fascism" endangers the United States as well as Israel. Christian speakers were blunt and harsh in condemning Arab leaders. "We will not turn the other cheek,” said Larry Huch, a Texas pastor and one of the numerous regional directors of Christians United for Israel who spoke. “We will stand with Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself.”

http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=108483

*********************************************************************************************************************
Kenneth & Gloria Copeland:

Kenneth Copeland was a guest on Benny Hinn’s January 28, 2004 broadcast This is Your Day telecast. Hinn says the lord has a word for you today. Copeland thanks Hinn for continuing in the healing ministry. Benny Hinn asked Kenneth Copeland what he sees happening in 2004. In turn, Copeland responds by reading his prophecy, to which Hinn says, “Amen“: “Right now the healing ministry of Jesus is coming into a place that no human beings has seen before. And it, we’ all going to be glad we stayed where he put us because this is our time” (Benny Hinn- Amen). (This is a Prophecy delivered by Kenneth Copeland at Eagle Mountain International Church December 31, 2000) Complete prophecy at http://kcm.org/studycenter/prophecies/2004_yearoffullness.php

Copeland continues: “The lord began talking to me about fullness of ministry and fullness of his callings and so forth oh 25 years go, but then in late November and all the way up to new years eve, and I had a visitation of the Lord new years eve afternoon, he began to talk to me about this year, and if you, you permit me I’ll read you what he said to me, Hinn responds please:
“ the year of 2004 will be known as the year of fullness. By the close of 2004, all callings will come to fullness. Apostles ministry, prophets ministry, evangelist ministry, pastoral ministries and teaching ministries that will obey me will come into full manifestation. The gifts of the spirit will be manifested in fulness as they were when Jesus was on the earth.” (Copeland says, “We’ve not seen that, we've seen little pieces of it but not like this”)... “Families will come into their called places and know the fullness of joy on earth as it is in heaven.”

If this is true, who needs heaven? Jesus said the very opposite for the last days, and spoke of perilous times, apostasy, the love of many growing cold, and itching ears that do not want to hear the truth but what they want to hear. The only time we will see this fullness is in the Millennium, but first comes the Great tribulation.

So according to God speaking to Copeland The gifts of the spirit will be manifested in fulness as they were when Jesus was on the earth. We will see all healings, all the gifts will be working at their height beyond what we saw with the apostles by those ministries like Copeland's. Blind eyes, legs growing out, resurrections taking place, multiplication of food for thousands to be fed by what would feed only a few is what people saw when Jesus was on earth; this he says will ALL take place in 2004.

http://www.forgottenword.org/copeland2.html
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. Here's a bit more scoop on a couple of those other names
Ron Wexler:

In late 2005, Ron Wexler (a developer of Israeli real estate for right-wing Christians) and Pastor Myles Munroe (Bahamas Faith Ministry International—a Pentecostal organization) organized the Ten Commandments Commission. Their stated objective was to elevate the importance of the Ten Commandments by placing monuments, plaques, and symbols throughout North America. Originally, the commission had settled on February 5 as Ten Commandments Day.

~snip~

During the interview, Wexler shares the usual restorationist shibboleths about how weather and homosexuals are running amuck because the Ten Commandments aren’t in certain courthouses. Be sure to see the thousands of petitions that Hope collected from Adventist churches.

Wexler provides further "reason" to restore the Ten Commandments (and buy his pin).

As the fury of hurricane Rita is about to hit the shores of Texas just 3 weeks after the disaster left Katrina, people of faith must be wondering…it was revealed to me that in numerology, the numerical value of the Hebrew letters that make up the name Rita + God is equal to 620. The number of all the Hebrew letters that make up the Ten Commandments is.…620! Is there a connection?


~snip~

Were we used by Ron Wexler? ...Perhaps this will help. This is what Ron Wexler was doing before he created the Ten Commandments Day. He also heads Heritage Study Incorporated, which is registered as a 501c (3) in Boca Raton, Florida. On December 8, 2005, the Federal Bureau of Investigation filed a criminal complaint in Florida that shows how Wexler teamed up with a husband and wife pyramid scene that defrauded people of more than six million dollars. Wexler and his partner lost six hundred thousand dollars.

http://www.spectrummagazine.org/weblog/060602blogosphere.html

****************************************************************************************************

Joyce Meyer:

Based on 2004 audited financial statement figures for Joyce Meyer Ministries, Inc. (dated March 11, 2005), JMM’s revenue was about $98 million and assets of about $71 million. JMM’s revenues seem to be witnessing a healthy increasing trend and as reported to be in the neighborhood of about eight million dollars per month, and approaching, if not surpassing $100 million annually.

http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=431382734
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
85. Just found this article: includes the cast of players...Tom Delay.
http://www.mediatransparency.org/storyprinterfriendly.php?storyID=116
"Although not as well known on the national political scene as some of his evangelical counterparts, Hagee has built an impressive evangelical empire and developed strong political ties to the Republican Party. Since his 1978 "conversion" to Zionism, he has emphasized establishing and maintaining good relations with Israeli leaders and certain sectors of the American Jewish community. Over the years he has met with Israeli heads of state and he's carving out a special relationship with former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who is once again seeking that office in the upcoming election in Israel. Hagee is also a longtime supporter of Rep. Tom DeLay, the embattled and indicted Texas congressman who recently handily won the Republican Party primary in his district.

"Think of CUFI as a Christian version of American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)," the powerful pro-Israel lobby, Hagee told The Jerusalem Post in an interview a few days before the early February summit. "We need to be able to respond instantly to Washington with our concerns about Israel. We must join forces to speak as one group and move as one body to the crisis Israel will be facing in the near future."

While Hagee wouldn't spell out which particular crisis he was concerned with, he did tell the Israeli newspaper that "'the Bible issue,' namely what he considers to be the mistaken policy of trading parts of the biblical Land of Israel for peace," was at the top of CUFI's list.
"Every state in the Union, every congressional district" will be accounted for, Hagee added."

Funny how he refers to the "crisis Israel will be facing"
Considering it was written March of 2006...
BHN
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Board of Directors: Who's Who of the Looney Toons
"Under Hagee’s chairmanship, Christians United for Israel's board of directors will include Jerry Falwell, Gary Bauer, Benny Hinn, Jack Hayford, George Morrison, Rod Parsley and Steven Strang - all evangelical ministers."
http://www.infoisrael.net/cgi-local/text.pl?source=2/a/ix/270220061

Benny Hinn????
He's certifiably insane.

BHN
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #85
87. I had posted something about DeLay here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1743314

a while back, from an interview DeLay had on 7/19/06 -- he spoke about the CUFI:

Tom DeLay discusses crisis in ME and his faith in relation to Israel
Edited on Thu Jul-27-06 06:24 AM by Emit
On Israel National Radio from July 19th with Rabbi Tovia Singer
http://somebodyhelpme.info/Tovia_Singer/07-19-06_Tom_Delay_Interview.mp3

Some selected snips--

Singer: "Without question, you are the most outspoken and your support for Israel drives the left and the State Dept. crazy..."

DeLay: "I'm directed by my faith...."

"I'm calling on the administration to show Iran and Syria that we are providing weapons to Israel...That if you're messing with Israel, you're messing with the United States."

"One of Israel's greatest friends in the world..." says Rabbi Tovia Singer.

"We had a great meeting last night with CUFI..." See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1734756&mesg_id=1736360

"Well, I gotta tell ya, we warned Israeli government...I warned them, that pulling out of the so-called occupied territories... which I don't think are occupied, they belong to Israel. Pulling out is not the answer. Their whole argument to me was that it costs too much to protect Jews living in Gaza..."

"If you possess the land the land is yours...and I just believe, particularly if you look at it from a Biblical perspective...the Lord doesn't want the Jews to give up the land that He gave them..."

He goes on to talk about his trip to Israel in 2003 -- In his message to the Israeli listeners, he refers to destiny, we will push to put our own soldiers shoulder to shoulder with theirs...

Rabbi Tovia Singer goes on to say..."You listen to him and...and you wish the Israeli leaders had this kind of clarity..." "What a pleasing, soft, clear mind...just a joy to have him on...."


http://somebodyhelpme.info/Tovia_Singer/07-19-06_Tom_Delay_Interview.mp3
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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. Delay is "guided" by his faith? GREED is more like it.
I've been surfing and reading up on as many
articles as I could find; systemic relationships and
all- and trust me when I say,
we are in deep shit.

These people are intent on playing the armaggedon card
and advocating for an US pre emptive strike on Iran.

BHN:nuke: :hide:
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Yes, and your comment reminds me of this post I bookmarked
a while back (I read the book, too -- it's from Power Down by Richard Heinberg):

Neoconservatism is the intellectual offspring of Leo Strauss (1899-1973), a jewish scholar who fled Hitler's Germany and taught political science at the University of Chicago. According to Shadia Drury in 'Leo Strauss and the American Right' (Griffin, 1999), Strauss advocated an essentially Machiavellian approach to governance. He believed that:

A leader must perpetually deceive those being ruled.

Those who lead are accountable to no overarching system of morals, only to the right of the superior to rule the inferior.

Religion is the force that binds society together, and is therefore the tool by which the ruler can manipulate the masses (any religion will do).

Secularism in society is to be suppressed, because it leads to critical thinking and dissent.

A political system can be stable only if it is united against an external threat, and that if no real threat exists, one should be manufactured.


end quote

Among Strauss's students was Paul Wolfowitz. Second-generation students (whatever that means) include Newt Gingrich, Clarence Thomas, Irving Kristol, William Bennett, John Ashcroft, and Michael Ledeen.

Ledeen, of the American Enterprise Institute, who has a "deep and abiding" fascination with Machiavelli and has written a book about him is a policy advisor to Karl Rove.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1880285&mesg_id=1880285

Also, here's another good site to peruse on this subject:
http://www.theocracywatch.org/

Especially check out their "What's New?" page:
http://www.theocracywatch.org/new_links.htm


I find the melding of these extreme religiosities with politics quite disturbing. I do not think in our lifetime that the US has ever planted its foot so firmly in the Middle East in the name of its leaders' religiosity. Regardless, this religiosity -- which mirrors the "Good v Evil" meme of our current foreign policy so well -- I think, has been very intentional, and has been in the making for some time, now.

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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. Gary Schmitt and Leo Strauss- continuing your line of research
Ever read any of Schmitt's diatribes on the PNAC web site?
Interestingly enough, all of this goes back to Carl Schmitt,
Hitler and Stalin's favorite writer and whose work Ledeen and
Strauss base much of their work on.
Anyone want to re evaluate the Prescott Bush dealings with
the Nazis and our current administration as a "conspiracy theory"
again?
BHN

http://www.irc-online.org/content/772
"Abram Shulsky and Gary Schmitt credit the teachings of Leo Strauss, a German Jewish émigré philosopher, with helping them conceptualize their understanding of good intelligence. Shulsky received his doctorate from the University of Chicago studying under Strauss, who attracted a cult following of neocons with his theories about politics and human nature. Shadia Drury, author of several books on Straussian political philosophy, said that Leo Strauss believed that “truth is not salutary, but dangerous, and even destructive to society--any society.” 1
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
92. Jewish leaders welcome CUFI -- and some don't
BHN, I can't let this drop -- it's too important. It's a big press toward Iran. Here's an interesting article to add to your OP --provides more insight into who is involved:


Jewish leaders welcome CUFI
Many Jewish leaders welcome the support for Israel offered by Hagee and other Christian Zionists. The Israeli ambassador to the U.S. spoke at the July 18th CUFI banquet.

The next day, the Jewish Federation of Greater Washington, the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, the National Jewish Democratic Council, the Republic Jewish Coalition, the American Jewish Committee and the Israel Project sponsored a rally with Hagee near the White House, according to the JTA. Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), Maryland Gov. Robert Ehrlich, Rep. Ben Cardin (D-Md.), Rep. Robert Wexler (D-Fla.), Rep. Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), and Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) spoke at the rally.

For the most part, Jewish leaders dismiss the evangelical Christian commitment to proselytizing when it comes to Hagee and his CUFI associates. Some believe that Israel's present situation is so dire that they pay scan tattention to the Christian Zionists' end-times motives. And Hagee has gone out of his way to put them at ease about the proselytizing.

~snip~

CUFI harps on Iran
In a stroke of fortuitous timing, CUFI held its kickoff event in Washington on July 18th, less than a week after Hezbollah kidnapped two Israeli soldiers and Israel attacked Lebanon. Iran, which backs Hezbollah, was the focus of banquet speeches. Hagee and CUFI board member Gary Bauer repeatedly spoke of "Hitlerian" Iran (and "Islamofacists").

Iran was also the focus of several thousand CUFI visits to congressional offices the following day, according to the Wall Street Journal and the National Catholic Reporter.

~snip~

It is not clear how many senators and representatives were swayed by CUFI's lobbyists. Nevertheless, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, appearing on talk shows before the CUFI lobbying day, popularized the concept of World War III, pitting "civilization and the rule of law against the dictatorships of Iran and Syria and the terrorist groups of Hezbollah and Hamas that they support." (See accompanying box)

The Jerusalem Post quoted an Israeli parliament member with strong ties to the US religious right, Benny Elon, saying that Hagee is the influence behind Gingrich's assertions.



The article also lists a few names involved, some repeated from the list we've seen, some additional names:

~snip~

CUFI has brought together for its board and its regional coordinators a religious right dream team, among them: Dr. Jerry Falwell; Gary Bauer, president of American Values; Pastor Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church near Columbus; religious-right radio personality Janet Parshall; Benny Hinn of Benny Hinn Ministries in Irving, Texas; Pastor George Morrison of the 4500-member Faith Bible Chapel in Arvada, Colorado and chairman of Promise Keepers; Kay Arthur of Precept Ministries International; Larry Huch of Larry Huch Ministries in Dallas; Stephen Strang, CEO of Strang Communications, which published Jerusalem Countdown; self-improvement book author Joyce Meyer; and Jesse Duplantis of Jesse Duplantis Ministries in Hammond, Louisiana. (Also participating as a board member is Ron Wexler, an Orthodox Jew.)


http://www.jewsonfirst.org/06b/cufi.html



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BeHereNow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. WOW EMIT!
Youv'e been BUSY!
Thanks for all the research!
All the usual suspects, eh?
Agreed- we should not let it drop.
BHN
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-11-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #94
95. Yes, I found myself so curious as to who was with this group
And as I read, I thought I'd list them out and post to your thread here -- this thread should be bookmarked by all -- it contains a lot of info on this subject.

On a related note to your OP about separation of church and state, here's another bit I discovered when researching some of these folks.

Congressman Walter B. Jones last year submitted, for the third time, the Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act:

(from the link)
In his 1999 campaign memoir, Bush recalls feeling “spellbound” by the preaching of Dallas-based TBN televangelist T.D. Jakes, whom he has since invited to participate in official White House events. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist has lauded TBN’s efforts to expand its broadcasting into China. TBN’s lawyer is Colby May, who also serves as counsel to the American Center for Law and Justice, a group founded by Pat Robertson, whose president Jay Sekulow, a converted Jew, advised Bush on his Supreme Court nominees. May also represents certain members of Congress on legislative initiatives and helped draft the Houses of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act, which, if passed, would lift the ban on electioneering from the pulpit. Its chief sponsor, Congressman Walter Jones, a North Carolina Republican, has appeared on Praise the Lord to promote the bill. Other guests on TBN programming have included Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina; Congressman Dana Rohrabacher, a California Republican; Texas gop co-chairman David Barton; and Oliver North, the radio host and Iran-Contra scandal celebrity.


From People For the American Way:
Houses Of Worship Free Speech Restoration Act

Status in the 109th Congress

On January 5, 2005, Representative Walter Jones (R-NC) reintroduced H.R. 235 in the House and the bill was referred to the House Ways and Means Committee. At the close of the 108th Congress, the bill had 167 co-sponsors. To date, no further action has taken place and no companion measure has been introduced in the Senate.

Updated April 11, 2005


HR 235's status -- it lists no co-sponsors at this time. Latest Major Action: 1/4/2005 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means.


More on Bill summary history and 165 co-sponsors (from the previous time it was submitted in '03):
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/HR235HousesOfWorshipAct.html

A lot of discussion and history on it here -- apparently has more than 130 supporters in congress in '04 (Per The Hill article at bottom of page here): http://www.theocracywatch.org/houses_worship_political_speech.htm

Here's a list of its supporters outside of congress, the ususal suspects again: http://www.hr235.org/view/article.asp?id=211-2003-07-02-2797-125

Another one to watch is the Constitution Restoration Act: 39 sponsors in '04

http://www.theocracywatch.org/sponors_cra_sept22_04.htm
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