Why is it if America has the best Health Care system in the world

[Toots]

No other country wants to copy it. Every single Industrialized Nation has gone to a nationalized health care system where they take care of their citizens. Not a single country anywhere has wanted to develop a system like the US has. Not one..Doesn't it stand to reason that if you have the best system that others will adopt it as well? I get so sick of this right wing talking point it makes my head hurt. If you want a healthy nation you must have healthy citizens. simple as two and two equal four. If we somehow retake Congress I believe our two biggest issues should be universal health care and alternative energy. We must look after our country and cure the sickness that has taken hold..We need to strengthen America not continue along this destructive course we have been on for the last six years or so..... My morning rant...:shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

1. GOOD question! nt

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mandate My Ass]

4. I pay high premiums and a significant co-pay

and I STILL wait in line at my doctor's office. :shrug:

[Lerkfish]

6. I wait in lines, with good insurance, what's your point?

[Toots]

11. That is total BS

Have you ever been to a foreign country and had to stand in line for care? You maked an appointment here and wait in the Doctor's office for sometimes over an hour after your appointment time. Like your time has no value, only their time. I would not waiting for a short while if the care did not bankrupt me. Besides it is not a matter of either or. Why not have both. You can still go to your high priced Doctor and get your supposedly best care in the world and have government hospitals as well. Doctors on a government payroll that are there to help any and all that need it in a sort of Christian way. I notice there isn't a long line when you go to sick bay in the military, oh but that is different isn't it???

[MisterHowdy]

16. Canada has long wait times.

Actually, in Northern Ontario many families don't have a family doctor. They have to go to walk-in clinics. In a clinic it's usually a 45-90 minute wait.

However, Our system is still far superior to the system in the US.
glad i live here.

[Toots]

21. I visit Cananda quite often, BC mostly

They do have a lot of walk in clinics, almost on every block but the wait is generally quite short from what the people there tell me. I have only been to the dentist there (saved me thousands) I still had to pay some but way way less than the US and there was no wait at all.

[MisterHowdy]

25. I think BC is better off than we are.

Actually, i'd like to move there.

[leftchick]

29. I have an hour wait for my GYN

every fucking time. And I have health insurance. :grr:

[TahitiNut]

46. It's your fault for having a uterus.

:rofl: I'll trade you my prostate for your uterus. :silly:

[leftchick]

48. and breasts

it takes forever for the breast exam! :P

[gula]

54. I never wait when I have an appointment with my doctor. Also

on my last check-up they found a lump in my breast and I was at the hospital for a more thorough test less than a week later. Thankfully it turned out OK.

So I guess it really depends where you live, Montréal in my case.

[OzarkDem]

95. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[Cant_wait_for_2008]

98. So does the US. Six weeks weeks to see a Urologist? ...................

for an office visit?

I'll take Canadian style healthcare anytime !!!

[Canuckistanian]

101. I have no complaint about our system

There are long wait times, sure, but you never have to wait if it's an emergency.

And my wife got hip replacement surgery with only a 3-month wait. And she received excellent care, with a visiting nurse and many follow-up exams.

Out only expense was driving to the hospital.

[SidDithers]

102. I feel the same way...

I've told the story here in more detail before, but here's the short version.

My wife had thyroid cancer a few years ago. We had an appt. with our familty doc, an ultrasound, 3 meetings with a surgeon, 2 surgeries and 4 nights in the hospital, all over the course of 3 months from the discovery of the lump 'till after the 2nd surgery. The longest wait we had was for the pathology between the first and second surgery (a very nervous 3 weeks).

I was self employed at the time, and had no extra health insurance coverage. That meant that instead of a private or semi-private room, my wife was in a "ward" type room with 3 other patients. But even with only standard coverage, the only out-of-pocket cost to us was $48 for the phone in the hospital room.

I shudder to think what this would have cost had we been living in the US and been uninsured.

Sid

[knitter4democracy]

92. My hubby sometimes runs behind and makes patients wait.

He's grumbly about it all evening when he gets home. He hates making patients wait, and he always apologizes. It happens when someone turns out to be much, much sicker than he'd told the receptionist and needs to get admitted to the hospital right away or when test results are bad and plans need to be made quickly or when rounds at the hospital go long . . .

Trust me, patients aren't the only ones who get grumpy when the doctor's running late.

[unpossibles]

15. you don't wait in lines or waiting rooms?

wow! What kind of amazing plan do you have? I want to join...

one thing I've never understood - the argument of "why should I have to pay for someone else's insurance?" - we already do in many, many ways

[etherealtruth]

75. "why should I have to pay for someone else's insurance?"

Don't you love people with a social conscience?

[unpossibles]

84. of course. such compassion

god forbid we actually, you know, try to take care of our citizens in a good way! Why waste money on that, when it should be spent on things like propaganda disguised as news and paying unqualified people to bungle national disasters. Funny, but I've yet to hear one of these anti-healthcare and anti-welfare people EVER complain about those and other huge drains on our economy.

[Cassandra]

17. You don't have lines at your doctors?

What fairyland do you live in?

[Ilsa]

19. My sister had thyroid cancer and she had to wait weeks

before getting to see a doc. She had to stay in her network to be covered. This was in Houston.

Women with probable breast cancer sometimes have to wait a month for a mammogram.

If you think we aren't already waiting in lines (and I don't mean sitting in the office), then you are kidding yourself.

[pookieblue]

96. I had to wait for my MRI

I had Optic Neuritis... Spelling?
Which basically causes you to lose the sight in one eye.

anyhow I had to wait a few weeks for my MRI (insurance reasons) and my Neuro was a bit miffed about the wait time. So was I.

and this is in the US.

[OzarkDem]

97. In Ohio, uninsured women wait months - up to a year

for mammogram screening. The state lets them get screened about 2 times a year. Their program covers about 5% of the women eligible. Same w/ Pap tests.

Thank you, Bob Taft.

[sarge43]

26. You obviously haven't made use recently of our splendid health

care system, especially in the rural areas. Mmmm, stand in line or live in fear of illness sending me or mine to the poor house. Difficult choice.

:sarcasm:

[ninkasi]

38. I've had to wait for over two hours

sometimes when visiting the doctor. The least amount of time I've waited has been 30-45 minutes. So here, not only do we have to pay high premiums for health care, we still have to wait. In addition, when making an appointment, sometimes the soonest the doctor could see me was around 3 weeks.

For something that needed treatment sooner, but wasn't an emergency, they have told me to show up, and they would try to squeeze me in. At times like that, it's best to take a good book to read, and pack a lunch.

[whistle]

3. Good point if true...

Can you prove this? "Every single Industrialized Nation has gone to a nationalized health care system where they take care of their citizens."

[The Anti-Neo Con]

5. Because we DON'T have the best system in the world.

The other countries know this of course.

These things about you hearing that we have the best healthcare system in the world are nothing but right-wing propaganda pushed by the right-wing corporate media.

[Lerkfish]

9. the ONLY advantage our our system is that for more money you can get

better health care! So, the rich people get the best. too bad if you're not rich, though.

and remember, its the rich people who get to decide what kind of health care system we have.

[endarkenment]

14. You can pay for premium care in many UH systems.

The rich always have access. The question is what sort of care do the rest of us get, and here we get rather mediocre care that is very expensive.

[rfranklin]

7. No, we have the best system for healthy insurance companies...

while the majority of us get screwed with bad coverage, no coverage, outrageous administrative costs and, when compared to many other countries, sub-par results.

[3dman]

8. Why is it then that

everyone who can comes to the U.S. for medical treatment?

Just wondering.

[Autumn Colors]

10. Because, as the person above already stated:

" the ONLY advantage our our system is that for more money you can get

better health care! So, the rich people get the best. too bad if you're not rich, though."

[3dman]

13. Tell me where else in

the world it is any different--people with money or political connections can always get what they want.

[unpossibles]

18. of course they do - that is not the point being made

which is that the costs for the vast majority of us are already high if we are covered at all. I don't understand the reasons why every American citizen can't have insurance. Can you explain it to me?

[3dman]

23. That's a good question.

Why can't Americans buy health insurance the same way they buy car insurance? I think it has much to do with government regs that don't allow this.

[unpossibles]

27. but not everyone has car insurance either

I've been hit by them too, and it sucks for both of us.

I meant explain to me why a National Health Care system is a bad idea.

[3dman]

30. Would you want the same idiots

who bungled the Katrina response running a national health care system?

[unpossibles]

33. not at all

I would prefer to have those bungling idiots thrown out and charged with treason.

I would prefer to have an open and transparent government of and by and for the People, not the ones we have in charge now. Funny, but Clinton - for all of his weaknesses - sure handled major hurricanes pretty well.

but don;t worry - the people who bungled Katrina will be voted out and/or impeached soon enough and we'll have a real government.

[leesa]

44. You do realize Katrina was bungled on purpose to get rid of FEMA,don't you

Most every other country is able to run a national health care system but the US is incapable of it. Are we that stupid?

[3dman]

47. I don't see much of anything that the Federal government does well,

why should I believe it could handle a nationalized health care system?

[SharonAnn]

51. There is much that is done well. Medicare, VA system, Social Security

[Bridget Burke]

61. FEMA worked fine....

Before it became part of Homeland Security.

[idgiehkt]

70. yeah, down with the federal government

let's just have Bastille day every day! Po folks go gangsta on the ruling class, and no national guard to call in, lol.

[ThomCat]

78. Our utilities were far more efficient

and better maintained when they were public utilities. Now that everything is privatized everything is inefficient and sucks.

Public healthcare, such as it already exists here (medicare) is much more effient and cost effective than private health insurance. Their overhead is a fraction of what private insurance companies require.

In the delivery of public services the federal government has repeatedly proved that it can be more fair, more efficient, and more cost-effective than public alternatives. This idea that government is always less efficient than corporations is an unsubstantiated myth.

[Bandit]

49. They seem to manage the health care of the military just fine

Or do you think the military gets short changed because it is totally run by the government? Your argument is without merit IMO.

[3dman]

55. Military health care is not a fair comparison.

The military is comprised primarily of a younger and healthier group of people than the American public at large. You have to pass very strict physical and health standards just to get into the military. That fact alone dictates that health care costs will necessarily be lower.

[Bandit]

58. Twenty thousand wounded in last three years

They also tend to military families. Your argument is still without merit IMO.

[3dman]

66. Younger military members

have younger families. The demographic is therefore skewed down in age when compared to that of the general public. Statistically the highest health care costs come from the older demographics. This is a fact. You can't compare apples to oranges.

Besides that fact, if you want to extrapolate the military system over the public at large, you also have to accept the rigid military structure that goes with it, which means very low salaries and no unions for health care workers. Is that acceptable to you?

[Bandit]

67. Yes it is

What you don't seem to grasp is it doesn't have to be an either or situation. We can keep exactly what we currently have so the wealthy can continue to have their preferred treatment but we can also have government hospitals with government salaried doctors and nurses. Are there very many government positions that are Union? The BIA already has this feature and the American Indians have been enjoying Government health care for over a century at government hospitals. It is already going on just not for the general public. Some Americans are more equal than other Americans it would seem..

[3dman]

71. OK, so you support a two tiered system,

and goverment health care employees that can't organize, right?

BTW, most federal employees are unionized.

[datasuspect]

87. wrong again - think head trauma

amputations, and other physical damage to the human body - it doesn't matter how young or healthy you are. you make it seem like the average military person is only in danger of catching a cold.

[sarge43]

69. Military medical care is great for physical trauma cases.

It sucks on preventive, OBGYN, ped and mental health care. It's called triage.

[SharonAnn]

50. I would want those who run Medicare and Social Security to do it.

They do amazing work, very efficiently, very effectively, and at a ver low cost.

[Bridget Burke]

60. The HMO's & Insurance Companies aren't doing a very good job.

We're going to get rid of Bush's idiots, anyway.

In Texas, many State functions have been Privatized. The State ends up paying more money & efficiency suffers.

[Gormy Cuss]

73. No, I'd want the same people who are running Medicare

Our current national health care system that works. Sure, it doesn't cover everything but it gives basic medical care access and has lower administrative overhead than any private health insurance plan.

[midnight]

20. Not everyone is coming to America for their health care.

In fact, I had a client who told me he went out of the States to receive a joint replacement. They put him in a beautiful room and treated him well. The cost was less expensive than in the States. His co. paid for it. How ironic, business has been importing and exporting our jobs and is now expoting us for healthcare.

[Babette]

53. I've known a lot of people who went to Mexico for health care..

I used to live in Texas, and the dirty little secret there is that many many people go to Mexico for basic health care. I knew of whole families who would take a couple of days and drive over the border to see a dentist. It was the only way to get affordable dental care. I knew a young woman with endometriosis who could not get treatment without paying a huge amount out of pocket (insurance wouldn't cover treatment). It was cheaper for her to spend her summers staying in hotels in Mexico and getting treated there than to stay home and drive to the hospital!

The rich in other countries come to the US for medical treatment because we do have very highly qualified doctors. However, if you're not a millionaire, forget about seeing them.

[ThomCat]

79. It's common for people in the US to go to Canada for healthcare too.

[Rosemary2205]

88. Thailand is the new "mayo clinic".

People from all over the world, even people in the US are flying to Thailand for major surgeries. Joint replacements, scheduled heart bypass, cancer treatment. Thailand is cutting edge, and people are getting the medical treatment and all rehab, room, board etc for about 1/2 of what they are spending in the US.

[endarkenment]

12. We don't.

False premise. All healthcare demographic stats indicate that we have a fair healthcare system that fails miserably in terms of measured results vs. per capita cost.

[deaniac21]

22. If only we were like Cuba.......sigh..

[3dman]

24. Would you really want to

trade your freedoms and live under a dictatorship for health care?

[LostinVA]

28. Ask someone that who's dying because they have no insurance

Or elderly going without needed meds because they can't afford them AND eat AND keep a roof over their head.

And, we've already traded away alot of our freedoms for NOTHING in return. Cuba isn't China. Or Saudi Arabia.

[3dman]

31. I'm not saying we couldn't do much better,

But to say we should be like Cuba, with all that entails, is a little over the edge.

[deaniac21]

32. You need to turn on your sarcasm detector...

[3dman]

35. Maybe

I need more coffee!

:hangover:

[unpossibles]

36. I don't know - we're not allowed to go to Cuba

so I have no idea what it is really like. Do you?

[3dman]

37. Considering people will

paddle 90 miles across shark infested waters on an inflated inner-tube just to get away, I don't think it's that great.

[unpossibles]

39. lol. good point

I wonder how many of them think it's better here once they get here. Seriously - not trying to be antagonistic. I think it's silly that because of the Cold War/Communist scare we're not allowed to go there or trade with them. As a free society, we should be secure that if we went there we'd see first hand that communism doesn't work, and if they came here freely, they would see our system is better.

oh well. It's not a perfect world, is it?

[3dman]

40. Yeah, I think the only thing

the embargo has accomplished is to hurt the Cuban people. I needs to end.

[3dman]

41. IT needs to end.

:silly:

[unpossibles]

42. actually I read that as "it" the first time

not awake here either.

I think that while it definitely does more harm to the Cuban people, it harms both sides.

[3dman]

43. Yup, BOTH sides.

[gula]

56. Don't forget that the propaganda the Cubans receive from the U.S.

shows a picture that has very little if anything to do with reality

[Bridget Burke]

65. The Cubans that make it here receive many benefits.

The Mexicans who walk through the desert aren't nearly as "lucky."

[Bridget Burke]

64. Why should we accept "all that entails"?

We're a much richer country than Cuba. I don't think that "freedom" is the reason we can't take care of our people.

[3dman]

72. You can't have a Cuba-like health care system

without a Cuba-like government to run it. The Cuban health care system is a direct result of the Cuban form of government. Is that what you want?

[Bridget Burke]

91. So--HMO's & Insurance Companies support The American Way?

I'm lucky in that I've got fairly good insurance at work.

However, co-pays have been going up since Bush was my Governor. Should I be happy to pay more because "Freedom Isn't Free"?

[Toots]

100. That is just plain BS

Virtually every other country in the world offers universal health care. All but the USA the one country most able to do so for it's wealth. The USA ranks about 37th in the world for health. We do not have a good infant mortality rate, we die younger than most, we are an obese and unhealthy nation and mainly because of people like you that feed the notion that it just can't be done. Well I am calling you on your bullshit. It can be done and should be done as soon as possible. This country is moving backward in medicine and science and that needs to change and it all begines with a change in our elected leaders. I am actually quite surprised you haven't hauled out the right wing term Hillarycare to bolster your cause. You are flat wrong and virtually every country in the world knows it and proves it in their daily lives.

[Kajsa]

34. We DON'T have the best Health Care system in the world.

I don't know anyone who can claim such with a straight face.

We are the only first world( sorry, for lack of a better word)country that I know
of that doesn't have universal health care for its people.

Our FDA roadblocks many good, potentially life-saving drugs from hitting the
market because of---????? Or, they take their sweet ass time approving them.
Yeah, who cares if a couple hundred people drop like flies while we check out any
possible non-threatening side effects a drug might have? :sarcasm:

Don't even get me started on the drive-by operations where they spit the patient out the door
ASAP!

Arggghhh!!!!! Thanks for listening.

:rant:

[gula]

62. I walked into emergency a couple of weeks ago. My second

foot wasn't even through the door when I was already taken care of. It turned out to be an open fracture of the wrist and to my great surprise they kept me in emergency over night and then put me in observation for a couple of days before letting me go. I have already been back twice for X-rays since. And ALL this without direct cash outlet on my part. I keep hearing about the lousy medical system in Canada but I have had nothing but positive experiences, including nice staff and free phones in obs. Well there is the pretty bad food offset by having someone butter your toast and cutting everything into bite size pieces.

[unpossibles]

74. until you got to the "Canada" part I didn't believe it

I waited in an American ER with a bleeding headwound for 3 hours on a Tuesday night just to fill out some forms and then waited for another hour before I actually saw a doctor.

My Canadian friends are shocked at how bad our healthcare system is here - they go home when they need something.

[ThomCat]

80. I've been in the ER with chest pain and waited for hours.

I've been in the ER in excruciating, screaming agony (8 on the pain scale) and been given a run around because I couldn't answer detailed questions clearly and calmly enough to suit the nurse who wasn't even bothering to take down the answers anyway. ERs in the US frequently suck and provide horrible beligerant care.

[gula]

82. Holy s*t

I hope everything turned out for the best.

[unpossibles]

83. yes. it was many years ago

but I think about it every time I hear someone say we have the greatest health care system in the world (chuckle).

And when they finally stitched me up, a couple of the stitches didn't go through both sides - the doctors at another hospital (I was on vacation) laughed at the first ER's doctors when they told me this. then I got home and discovered that those guys had left some stitches in on accident - I had blue thread sticking out of my head. You'd think that for the money I paid (and that I spent an hour waiting for someone to spend 5 minutes with me and a pair of scissors) they'd get something right.

And whenever I just have to go to a doctor it's a huge puzzle to figure out who is in what network, and if various things are covered or not, and then they still bill you, even though your insurance eventually (hopefully!) pays for it.

[WernhamHogg]

90. Similar thing happened to me

On my last trip to the ER 3 years ago (when I still was "lucky" enough to have insurance) I had very bad bronchitis and I could NOT breathe. I thought I was going to pass out, I was doubled over gasping for air and they still made me sit in the waiting room for over a half hour while I filled out forms (which I wasn't even able to do). The kicker was the fact that my husband and I were the ONLY people in the waiting room. After they finally took me into a room and gave me a breathing treatment so that I could breathe, they kept me in that room for over 4 hours before I saw a doctor.

[knitter4democracy]

93. A couple of residents my hubby trained with went back.

They were a couple from Canada who came to do their residency here in the States because of all they'd heard. They thought they'd stay here. After three years in the States, they ran back home to Canada, and my hubby and I talk about it sometimes.

They were super grumbly their last year here and kept explaining how much better it was in Canada. From all the stats, it sure seems like it is.

[davekriss]

45. Why is it if the US has the best Health Care system...

...in the world, the WHO ranks the U.S. 37th in health outcomes (combination of life-span, infant mortality, etc.)?


O, that's right, it is the best healthcare system in the world for those who can afford to pay, or have the power (Congress) to get us to pay for them. Bush's Base does just fine. To the Regime, that is America. The rest of us are just so many useless eaters and cannon fodder.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

85. Read same report: Saudi Arabia was 26th w/ US 37th, There's a bad joke

in this somewhere.

[hunter]

52. Even people with money often get crappy health care in the U.S.

...very expensive crappy health care.

A person going to a free clinic in the United States can have a better outcome for an identical medical complaint than a billionaire with the best insurance. There are many reasons for this, but one might be that some of doctors catering to the wealthy are more interested in the prestige and money than the patient's actual health. (This can be a conscious or subconscious attitude.) These doctors might also put unwarranted faith in highly advertised and expensive pharmaceuticals and procedures that are more dangerous and less effective than the inexpensive generic drugs and procedures a free clinic doctor might use.

It is a total fabrication that the "United Sates has the best health care system in the world," even when you disregard all the patients who have no health insurance. The only thing you can really say about the health care system in the United States is that it is the most expensive, and that the overall results we get from that money are mediocre compared to several nations that spend far less on health care than we do.

[LordLovesAWorkingMan]

57. It's not the delivery system...it's what is available

We are hopelessly confusing the delivery institutions with the level of care that is already possible here. If you look strictly at the technology, the brainpower, the methods, the research and development, and the fact that world-class care is available in every single state, it's clear to me that we DO have the best system anywhere.

We just don't DELIVER or ALLOCATE it well.

[area51]

59. Great post, Toots.

We are a barbaric country that allows people to die if they don't have enough money to pay for healthcare. We already pay enough in taxes to have universal healthcare.

[pitohui]

63. no one believes usa has best health care system in the world

the statistics don't lie, our infant mortality and longevity rates are at the bottom of the first world and even some second/third world countries and have been since at least the 90s

costa ricans live longer than we do, maybe they can't maintain a decent highway, but they can construct a public health system

usa health care is a cruel joke

[KansDem]

76. Bob Dole did in 1996: "Best health care in the world" was his mantra...

Sure...as long as you have a limousine waiting to take you to Bethesda at the first sign of sniffles.

[ThomCat]

81. A few idiots believe the myth that the USA is the best

at everything. :eyes:

[Cant_wait_for_2008]

99. As long as you are loaded with $$$ and clout its great. If not, Oh Well!!!

You takes your chances and you pays your money.

[napi21]

68. Did any of you see the panel re: health care costs on cspan this past

weekend? They had a panel of four, I think, and the discussion was really great.

They were actually talking about the deficit, but all agreed that the biggest problem affecting that deficit was health care. They accused the Prez & the Congress of lumping SS, Medicade & Medicare all in one pool, when Medicare/Medicade was a much bigger and more urgent problem.

They were discussint the problem of too many tests, some unnecessary, and some just foolish. The only lady on the panel related a story about PSA testing being done on 85 YO patients, and the results could show the possibility of that patient possible getting PSA within the next 20 years! Some Dr.s find it easier to just have the same test done again, rather than trust another Dr's report, or just don't want to bother to call somewhere for the information.

This is one of MY pet peeves! I'm fortunate to be fairly healthy and the last time I went to a Dr. was 4 1/2 years ago. I had been playing with a cold for about 5 weeks and it was getting worse rather than better. When I saw the Dr. he took my temp, liistened to my breathing, and sent me to a lab for a chest xray. The next day his office called to say "yes you have pneumonia and we'll call in a prescription for you." Now, I remember the days when my GP would have made that determination WHILE I WAS IN HIS OFFICE, hand me the script, and my bill was $20. There was NO REASON that Dr. had to "confirm" his opinion by ordering that xray!

THAT is a lot of what is wrong with our HC system today! I don't know if it's severe CYA syndrom, or the newer docs are simply not sure of themselves, but we'd see a BIG CHANGE in costs if just that one piece was fixed!

[leftofthedial]

77. we have the worst health care system outside the third world, BUT

we are well on our way to being a third world country, so everything will be okay

who wants to live a long life in a fucked up country like this anyway?

[MountainLaurel]

86. Good question

And a timely one for me: I had to go to the emergency room today for an ongoing problem that took a turn for the worse, simply because the matter couldn't wait the two weeks before the first available appointment with the specialist. (Two weeks was a comparatively short turnaround; when I first tried to see the specialist, it was six weeks.)

[conflictgirl]

89. The only aspect in which our health care system is "the best"

...is in terms of doctor's salaries. American doctors are paid better than doctors in most other countries. If it resulted in better care for the rest of us and a lower mortality rate, then I'd have no problems with that. But the biggest problem with our health system is that its biggest purpose these days is to make some people rich, rather than providing the type of health care we are more than capable of providing.

[knitter4democracy]

94. Most doctors make about the same.

It's the specialists who make quite a bit more. For example, there isn't much difference in pay between a Canadian internist and an American internist, but there's a huge difference between a Canadian radiologist and an American radiologist (they make way, way more than internists).