Something curious about the Bin Laden tape.

[Cleita]

Did anyone watch "The News'Hour" tonight. There was an Arab language expert on and he said that this wasn't typical of Bin Laden's style. Usually, Osama's language is very flowery with references to the Koran. He said that this speech sounded like it was written by someone else in English and translated into Arabic.

He was trying to make the case that Osama was no longer in charge of Al Queda, but was just acting as a messenger or front guy. But that seems too neat an explanation to me. I can't imagine Osama accepting something like this, especially English to Arabic.

It seems rather strange to me.

[marmar]

1. What's not strange is the timing...

bin Laden tapes always appear at a time of crisis ... for the Republicans!

:think:

[spun_in_montana]

30. Bingo n/t

[xray s]

2. I wouldn't be surprised if its a fake planted by BushCo

Timing is too convenient. Like the Alito crying jag.

In fact, I am almost sure of it.

[theoldman]

5. I do not think it is a fake.

Your voice is like your fingerprint. However I do not think BL would waste his time.

[OnyxCollie]

13. The CIA claims it's bin Laden's voice.

And it's not like the CIA would lie to us. :sarcasm:

[xray s]

23. The CIA may not be in on it

BushCo is probably screwing the CIA too.

[SupplyConcerns]

81. BushCo "screwing" the CIA? Are you kidding?

Bush's dad was head of the CIA. Prescott Bush had contacts with individuals working for precursors of the CIA. To quote Kevin Phillips, who worked as the chief elections and voting patterns analyst for the 1968 Nixon admin, as well as Special Assistant to the Attorney General in 1969:

"The Bushes appear to be a family that approaches a presidential election as something to be won with a CIA manual, not earned with commitment to Lincolnian precepts or popular sovereignty". -American Dynasty, p.325

Bush is one of those crooked, vile politicians who knows how to use the CIA all too well.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Al-Jazeera says it is OBL's voice

last I knew they were not a Bush mouthpiece.

What is good for Bush is good for OBL too. Bush admin. was starting to talk about phased withdrawal. That's a disaster for OBL because it only leaves the Muslims to fight with each other. How will he recruit if the great Satan steps aside? No, he comes out with a tape that basically says look at you American weenies! Do what the Democrats want and the American weenie people want! Go home, and I won't hurt you. Of course he knows this gives Bush the tool to ramp it all back up again.

I really do wish he would die, of natural causes. Preferably of something really stupid or something messy like diarrhea. BTW you shithead NSA trolls I'm talking about OBL. This time.

[xray s]

42. they don't have to be in on it

BushCo fakes the tape and puts it into the pipeline eventually reaching Al Jazeera.

Really, it wouldn't be hard to do. I am sure BushCo's puppets in kabul would be only too happy to help out.

[Maru Kitteh]

58. But then tell me why it has to be a fake?

OBL and Bush's best interests run parallel. They really do need each other, even though both have to pretend otherwise to maintain "respectability" - kinda like the leads in Broke Back Mountain.

Bush: I wish I could quit you Osama!

The only difference here is that in Brokeback you have a really touching story that involves two actual human beings even though they are fictional. In the case of Bush and OBL you have two very real power-drunk bloody pus buckets in a sick dance of apocalyptic fundamentalism.

[SupplyConcerns]

85. Perhaps because bin Laden has been dead for some time?

Check out this article. The most important part of it is the long sequence of statements from various governments and intelligence agencies saying he's "probably" dead.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osama_dead.html

[rumpel]

90. AlJazeera announced to launch an International version and hired

American journalists/hosts as I recall. That was only last week. Must have been in the works for some time though.

[stickdog]

93. And voices can't be synthesized?

Sheeple keep on sheeping ...

[Sparkman]

107. CIA was purged of competant agents, Valeri Plame was last good one?

your sarcasm is however appeciated.

[xray s]

17. you can splice a tape using bin laden's voice

I imagine with the billions we spend on black ops the ability to fake a UBL tape would be as easy as baking brownies.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Oh I'm sure it could happen

I also remember reading about a device that can make your voice change to match someone else's. You just need a sample of that voice.

[shance]

53. Voices have been replicated at the Los Alamos labs a few years ag

It can be done.

[Poll_Blind]

56. I remember hearing about that- played Colin Powell saying...

...something outrageous which impressed the Suits and Brass. Can't find the link but I always think about it when each OBL tape comes out.

PB

[drfresh]

100. CIA has the technology

The CIA has some of the best linguists in the world, and there was another post on here about voice-morphing technology. There's no question that they COULD do it if they wanted to, or if they were ordered to.

[Donailin]

57. almost?

I'm 100 percent sure. read here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=188761&mesg_id=189466

[EFerrari]

3. That's fascinating. I wonder if any of the other so called

binladen "experts" will pick up on this.

[babylonsister]

4. Here's a theory! The text originated in the U.S.

and was translated, they slapped file footage of OBL with it, et voila! :tinfoilhat:

[marmar]

8. Sounds completely reasonable and entirely likely...

that tape could be three years old, stored in some video room in the White House.

[Sydnie]

6. This thread might shed some light ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=183367

[TomInTib]

12. This is the whole story and it gets NO play. nt

[babylonsister]

18. Thanks, Sydnie. I hadn't seen that; makes the possibilities

seem even more reasonable!

[OnionPatch]

34. Wow!

I had no idea. That's extremely creepy.

[Sydnie]

37. Well, they keep telling us everyday that we are dealing with

"new technology". Perhaps this time, we should listen and take notice of what that technology is capable of doing, huh?

[OnyxCollie]

7. Just saw a news story

that said the bin Laden tape would not raise terror levels. Gee, didn't that same thing happen in New York? Hmmmm.

WASHINGTON - The U.S. has no plans to raise the security threat level because of a new tape of Osama bin Laden saying al-Qaida is planning attacks, counterterrorism officials said Thursday.

The White House firmly rejected bin Laden's suggestion of a negotiated truce. "We don't negotiate with terrorists," Vice President Dick Cheney said in a television interview. "I think you have to destroy them."

Counterterror officials said they have seen no specific or credible intelligence to indicate an upcoming al-Qaida attack on the United States. Nor have they noticed an uptick in terrorist communications "chatter" — although that can dramatically increase or decrease immediately before an attack.

<snip>

CIA analysts verified the recording as bin Laden's voice. They offered no details about how they reached that conclusion, but in the past the agency has verified authenticity in part by comparing new recordings to earlier messages.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060120/ap_on_go_ot/us_al_qaida_tape



Edited for typo and to add link.

[TomInTib]

9. And that guy is from the Baker Institute (Rice University)...

That's James A Baker III. But he still managed to voice a concern that no one else has mentioned.

I agree with his assessment and have thought this since this bs floated to the top.

Karl Rove wrote it and it was read into Los Alamos' voice morph processor.

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Wouldn't surprise me if binLaden and BushCo are working together from

day 1 (9/11) since their ultimate goals really coincide so nicely....

So whenever BushCo needs a little boost, binLaden issues a little tape to help his cronie along.(That little tape binLaden released just before the last Presidential election...GIVE ME A BREAK!!!)

BushCo and binLaden benefitted from 9/11, and they both benfited from Saddam Hussein's fall. They will both benefit from continued terrorism and chaos in the Middle East.

The concept that they are working together makes much more sense than they are enemies.

Youy can tinfoil hat me all you want....

[Cleita]

14. I agree with you.

Evidence points to the fact that Bin Laden is very much working with the Saudis under cover and the Bushies are working for the Saudis as well. One hand washes the other as they say.

[Blue_In_AK]

35. They live in a cozy state of symbiosis...

Neither could exist without the other.

[tlsmith1963]

19. It *Does* Make More Sense

And that's what is really scary. Whenever I try to figure things out, nothing makes much sense if I go by the assumption that Bush & OBL really are enemies. But if I go by the assumption that they are in on it together, things make a lot more sense. And I'm not the "tinfoil hat" type of person usually, but this era is just too scary. I think this country went down the "rabbit hole" a long time ago, if you know what I mean.

Tammy

[4morewars]

33. Ya think ?

They wouldn't do that; that would be BEYOND evil !

[FreedomAngel82]

41. Speaking of which

go to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info and watch the film "Exposed: the Carlyle Group." It shows how on 9/11 Poppy Bush met with one of BinLadin's brother on "business."

[Bonobo]

48. Read Vonnegut's "Cat's Cradle" for a perfect description of this.

Bokononism describes this perfectly.

> In Cat's Cradle, Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., created a new religion, Bokononism. The holy scripture of Bokononism was the ever-growing "Books of Bokonon", written by Bokonon -- a British Episcopalian Negro from the island of Tobago whose real name was Lionel Boyd Johnson < 48 > -- as a way to distract the people of San Lorenzo from their pitiful lives. What is sacred to Bokononists? Not God; just one thing: man. < 94 >

http://www.cs.uni.edu/~wallingf/personal/bokonon.html

or

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokononism

[No Exit]

63. I wouldn't THINK of tinfoil-hatting you, because I have had exactly

the same thought. Seriously.

Anyone who wants to put tinfoil hats on us had BETTER damn well know Arabic and also maybe know one or two of the Afghan languages. Because those of us who don't know any of the above should just admit that we DON'T KNOW WHAT'S REALLY GOING ON.

Are we supposed to trust the MEDIA or the GOVERNMENT to "translate" this stuff for us? The same media that has been proven time and time again to be in the pay of the Bush administration? The same government which consists of people on the take (see: Abramoff Republican Scandal)and people who illegally wiretap and torture?

The tinfoil hats should be worn by those who are actually loony enough to trust the government and the media to "translate" these "tapes" and "al quaeda communications" (puh-leeze!) for us.

[DanCa]

11. Maybe i should join the fbi it looks like my hunch was right.

I know the tapes a hoax, i knew there were no wmd I can drop and gain fifty pounds at the drop of hat and who'd expect someone with parkinsons as being an agent? It's the perfect cover. Allthough the safest place to stand where I shoot would be the target with me tremors :D

[Generator]

15. Well I for one am feeling nuts

(and having a stomach bug doesn't help) I feel there is utter disconnect from what I see and hear-what the majority of du'ers at least question-if nothing else-and the "agreed" upon reality. The CIA says it's authentic! It must be so! The government says so. Oh ho ho. The government never lies. Oh ho ho. I hate the pre-disposition of us sometimes-the everything is not what it seems that infects us-but damn it-everything is not what it seems. We have so much documentation of utter lies-from the Iraq war-to the handling of 9/11 that to take what the news or government tells you would make you a fool. It doesn't mean reading an opinion on the internet is gospel either-but why oh why is there never any doubt of the party line? Watching Olbermann I had this frustration-they had the experts on-never any doubt that it's him and he's alive. Where is the proof of life?

[rodeodance]

25. but the FBI has not analyzed it yet

[Marie26]

86. Sometimes it's there between the lines

The news reports will talk about "verified" tapes in quotation marks, and make sure to note the timing of the last release right before the 2004 election. Some will even note the descrepancies in the info on the tapes, etc. But the news reporters are in the same boat we are - they don't know if these are true either. We've got a released tape, & authentication by the US government - and nothing blatant to show they're false. They've almost got to report it as a fact, but the good reports include enough clues to allow readers to draw their own conclusions. I wish the media would be more upfront w/their skepticism, though, & really question the veracity of these tapes.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. It's a BFEE video production. Paid for with our tax dollars.

:( I don't buy ANY of it.

[xray s]

21. I don't buy it either

we are being manipulated. again.

[Kool Kitty]

47. My sentiments exactly.

How convenient. Too many scandals, too many questions. Time to clamp down on dissent. Now if you protest, you are siding with Osama. Outrageous.

[4morewars]

39. Isn't that the same production company...

that made all the pre-election beheading videos ?
Aren't we overdue for one of them ? Nothing gets the base fired up like a good old fashioned beheading !

That reminds me ! Isn't there some female journalist being held captive ?
Hmmm, I wonder if they can 'git er done' in time for tomorrow's evening news ?

[in_cog_ni_to]

46. Same company. That journalist's kidnapping is no surprise

to me. Timely. First her kidnapping, then this tape. It's old hat. They need a new act. They've become predictable.

[Lugnut]

60. You have to hand it to them though

They know their audience. The Kool-Aid drinkers will lap it all right up. I usually start with the assumption that it's BS.

[in_cog_ni_to]

66. Oh yeah. The freepers are in their bunkers already!

:) I just assume everything they say is a lie and is actually the opposite of what's actually the truth. I believe NOTHING they say and do.

[Kansas Wyatt]

20. With BushCo screwing the pooch on Iraq by demanding the CIA

Come up with evidence to attack, and we all know how that turned out. How would anyone know that BushCo isn't demanding that the CIA "voice-print" all of these tapes and translate what they want Americans to hear?

[catabryna]

22. Earlier in the day...

someone had mentioned that the translation used the word "God" instead of "Allah". I went and read the text and it does in fact say "God". Does anyone know if this a translation error or if is there no way of differentiating between the two?

It sort of peaked my interest. I can't imagine OBL using God in place of Allah.

edit: typo

[rodeodance]

27. from english to arabic to english--translation problems can occur.

[catabryna]

95. I have only read the text but,

I'm not sure I understand the english/arabic/english translation answer. Are you saying that OBL spoke in english on the tape, it was then translated to arabic and then back to english? As I said, I only read the text.

[catabryna]

96. Oh wait...

I get your answer now... forget that silly little question of mine :P

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Very strange

He wouldn't use the word "God" even though it means the same thing. They do worship the same God as the Christian's and Jews. Apparently Abraham, connected in the Jews and Christian stories, gave birth to a son through a slave girl he had and this son is the father of Islam. :shrug: Anybody here know Islam? I've never known of BinLadin to use the word "God" before either. A supposivley extreme Muslim wouldn't do that I don't think.

[Justice Is Comin]

24. This is so fucking transparent

it's like predicting two months after Katrina happened that there will be water in the streets when Katrina hits.

I'm confident more and more people are starting to laugh when they see the marionette show now.

[Maru Kitteh]

26. I heard someone else claim it had been edited or written by an Egyptian

Talk like an Egyptian............

Sorry, I had to get that in there but anyway, that's what they said (xpert anal-ist of course) to which the talking head piped in with AHHHH Al-Zwahiri is an Egyptian!

This little midwestern girl picked up a bit of "ya'll" when she lived in Texas and a little bit of "Hey" and "'sallgood" when she lived in N.C. OBL could be living with or crafted this message with an Egyptian educated in America. I DO believe it was OBL and I have to hand the guy one when it comes to his timing. Dirty motherf**ker couldn't have done any better if he was waiting for a sign from Karen Hughes and channeling Dick Cheney.

What is good for Bush is good for OBL. What is good for OBL is good for Bush. Those two have been tactically and politically 69ing each other since the first plane hit. I'm not much for LIHOP, and definitely not for MIHOP (I fall into the incompetence category) ... BUT .. it sure has been smooth as silk for Chimpy since then.

[samhsarah]

28. Maybe it's cause Osama's dead. nt

[rodeodance]

29. nominated

[chalky]

32. Ran across this thread earlier on a WaPo 1999 article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=183367

Put these two threads in a mixer and you have one hell of a cocktail.

[tinrobot]

59. BINGO !

Also explains why there have only been audiotapes and no video the past few years.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Very interesting and I noticed

that he said all the rightwing talking points. And it's very convient too because tomorrow is supposed to start the NSA hearings.

[librechik]

40. Does this mean Osama Bin President is afraid of the Dems hearings

he should be.

[LilOrphan]

67. Talking points...in English vernacular, no less

Look at his phraseology - ripped right out of average American speak: polls, defense contractors...hell, I was waiting for him to say "You Americans think your leader has screwed the pooch and you are right! Fo Shizzle, infidels!"

[Cleita]

70. Welcome to DU LilOrphan!

Great point about the vernacular let alone English.

[EFerrari]

72. I've yet to hear a cable "expert" read this as closely as DU has.

nt

[LilOrphan]

97. Reading closely doesn't fit corpo-media agenda

Thanks for the welcome and responses. I lurk here, mostly and have only over a dozen posts.

It's the translation of the tape into wording that's inherently American. Certain parts were nearly slang, not to mention RW rhetoric.

What scares me is the meme they're creating against Democrats. It may have no greater purpose than to chill dissent, but to some of the freepi nutheads it's just the push they need to rationalize violence.

[Maven]

104. LOL

Seriously, that was funny. Carry on.

[kineneb]

44. OBL's voice, recorded from basement of White House

that is what first occurred to me. Timing seems strange, along with announcement that the "color code" alerts were not going to be changed (like I give a s*** about the alert system). After all, the BushCo reaction to OBL/Al Queda has destroyed more in the US than any terror attack could hope to have achieved.

"Hey, Osama-boy, my popularity numbers are in the tank; crank us out a tape with some vague threats!"

[DemBones DemBones]

45. I knew it sounded odd but hadn't had time to think about it

because we had company tonight and I just saw a brief segment about the new AUDIOtape, during which they played VIDEOtape of a very young Osama. I said to Mr. Bones, "What, he's gotten younger now???" This was footage I've never seen before but Mr. Bones had. In it, Osama has extremely thick lips, like collage implants. I don't recall him having fat lips in other videos, not even in the "fat Osama and the crippled sheik" tapes, when he had the wide nose, totally different than his nose in other tapes. Honestly, I wonder if we have ever seen the real Osama bin Laden, if there IS an Osama at all.

It annoyed me that they kept playing VIDEO when what was released was an AUDIOtape. How many Muricans will believe they saw a new OBL video?

Added on edit: I agree that "OBL" has always used flowery language and said "May peace and blessings be upon him" when he mentioned Allah or Mohammed. This sounded cut and dried.

[MakeItSo]

50. their budget for black ops disinfo must be dwindling

Pretty poor show, fellas. Got the accent wrong, didn't write in OBL's speaking style, and didn't have money for makeup and studio lighting as they did right before the 2004 election.

Money must be tight!

[DemBones DemBones]

54. And what slayed me was that they kept showing VIDEO while saying it

was an AUDIO tape. I didn't think it sounded like previous Osama tapes voicewise, either, but it was the phrasing that really bothered me.

[leesa]

49. He had terminal kidney disease. He;s long dead.

BushCo, who is in partnership with the bin Ladens for decades have used his name to jumpstart PNAC in exchange for removing the troops from Saudi Arabia. Bush did 9-11.

[Cleita]

51. Yes, you are right.

My husband died a year ago from end stage renal disease, which Bin Laden had. I know how difficult this disease is with the best of medical care, let alone being in a combat zone.

Even with the best of care the average survival for kidney patients on dialysis is five years without a kidney transplant. If he is alive, it means he got a transplant, which means most likely he is in Saudi Arabia being cared for and the Bush evil cabal knows it.

[chalky]

64. I'm sorry for your loss, Cleita.

:hug:

[Cleita]

69. Thank you chalky.

It does help me put a more learned perspective on the OBL kidney disease discussions. From that perspective, I am happy that I had the experience so I can explain what I know about this and dispell some misconceptions, especially the misconception that the Bush administration wants us to believe that OBL is hiding in a cave somewhere. He couldn't be.

[FreedomAngel82]

80. Aw I'm sorry

:hug: But yes BinLadin is dead.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta: Bin Laden would need help if on dialysis

Link: http://edition.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/01/21/gupta.otsc/

Snip: <CNN) -- Speculation about the whereabouts and health of Osama bin Laden picked up over the weekend when Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, said he thought bin Laden had likely died of kidney failure.

CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta spoke Monday with CNN's Paula Zahn about bin Laden's appearance in recently released videotapes and the possibility that the accused terrorist leader was undergoing kidney treatment.

ZAHN: For a point of reference, I'd like for you to analyze pictures of Osama bin Laden that apparently were taken prior to September 11. Describe to us the color and the tone of his skin, and then I want you to contrast that with pictures we know to have been taken much later. >

More at link...

[TheModernTerrorist]

52. none of it is really that strange.

he's a puppet of the US govt, an ex-CIA operative still taking orders, still on dialysis, being watched over by our govt. He is our version of Emmanuel Goldstein in this real-life version of 1984, being played out in front of our eyes.
Whether he's a live or not isn't even the point anymore. He could be dead and gone for years. Doesn't mean our govt won't perpetuate the myth to keep the war machine oiled, and keep the people in line.

[DemBones DemBones]

55. Thank you, I have been trying to think of Goldstein's

first name. Many years since I read the book. "We have always been at war with East Oceania."

[TheModernTerrorist]

61. took me a few too

until I opened my copy of the book and found it. :-D

I can't even bring myself to reread that book. I'm in all honesty, terrified of that wonderful book, and I hope it lulls my girlfriend out of her ignorance and complacency on the subject.

[DemBones DemBones]

88. My daughter took the book when she went off to college

years ago so I'd have had to google it. Orwell saw it coming alright. Dystopian novels always fascinated me but dystopian reality is another matter. :scared:

[No Exit]

62. All I know is, Walter Cronkite was right

about the "Bin Laden tape" which surfaced so conveniently right before the 2004 election. He said it was a fake.

There were many reasons for this. The reason that struck me the most, though, was a simple one: the tape showed Bin Laden "sitting at a desk". He did not stand at any time in the tape.

Bin Laden is exceptionally tall. I think he's something like 6'5". That sort of height would be hard to fake. But when someone's sitting down, you can't gauge their height. How convenient.

[helderheid]

65. repeat after me: OSAMA IS DEAD - WAG THE DOG.

[in_cog_ni_to]

68. OSAMA IS DEAD - WAG THE DOG.

I agree.

[rodeodance]

74. Micheal Leeden says OBL died in mid-Dec, 2005

http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/lopez/ledeen200601090808.asp

January 09, 2006, 8:08 a.m.
One Moment in Time
Our age of revolution.

There's an old Chinese theory according to which the best way to understand historical events is not to reconstruct the sequence of "causes" by which the events were "produced," but rather to look at the unique characteristics of the moment in which the events occurred. I know there's an old Chinese theory for most anything, but this one has stayed with me ever since I first read about it in an essay by Carl Gustav Jung, and back in the Eighties it occurred to me that Pope John Paul II had understood its wisdom. The pope once remarked that there were times when dramatic change was impossible, and at such moments anyone who tried to achieve it was like the fool beating his head against a stone wall. But there were other times when the acts of a single individual could change the world. He knew he was living at such a time, and he saw his mission as inspiring individuals to take those actions, and change the world for the better. That was one reason why his famous call, "be not afraid," was so right for those times, and why a handful of brave individuals famously changed the world.

This historical moment is not easy to understand, since we are in transition from a relatively stable world, dominated by a handful of major powers, to something we cannot yet define, since it is up to us to shape it. It seems clear, however, that there is a greater rapidity of change, accompanied — inevitably — by the passing of the leaders of the old order. This is particularly clear in the Middle East, where seven key figures have been struck down in the past six years: King Hussein of Jordan in February, 1999. King Hassan of Morocco in July of the same year. Syrian dictator Hafez al Assad in June of 2000. Yasser Arafat of the PLO in April, 2004. King Fahd of Saudi Arabia in May of last year. Ariel Sharon of Israel was incapacitated by a stroke in early January. And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Iranians who reported this note that this year's message in conjunction with the Muslim Haj came from his number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for the first time.

This remarkable tempo of change is not likely to diminish, as old and/or sick men are in key positions in several countries: Israel's Shimon Peres is 82. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is 82 (and his designated successor, Prince Sultan, is 81, and was recently operated for stomach cancer). Iran's Supreme Leader, Ali Khamenei, although probably in his sixties, is said to have serious liver cancer, and is not expected to survive the next year..........

Michael Ledeen, an NRO contributing editor, is most recently the author of The War Against the Terror Masters. He is resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute

[rodeodance]

75. oops-here is the link

.http://www.nationalreview.com/script/printpage.p?ref=/lopez/ledeen200601090808.asp

[Cleita]

77. Thanks.

I find this really interesting. Too bad we can't get this on the MSM. I mean all of it.

[rodeodance]

82. but remember--it IS micheal ledeen talking.

[rodeodance]

84. but cia said tape made early dec or nov--so could be it IS OBL (even if

Ledeen story is true)

[DemBones DemBones]

89. Verrry interesting, especially with Ledeen being a PNACer who wants

to take out Iran, wrote about it three if not four years ago.

[eridani]

94. Iran? That makes no fucking sense at all?

Bin Laden is a Wahabist, and they HATE Shi'ites.

[dchill]

71. I wouldn't be surprised ...

if the whole thing turned out to be a CIA operation. If they wrote the speech on the tape, naturally they'd have to say it's really him. As far as Al Jazeera is concerned, I don't have any good reason to believe them, either - they are just the flip side of the Christo-Bushian coin. And if Porter Goss didn't go along with his Benefactor, how could he expect to get that Medal Of Honor? Or even keep his job... No, too much at stake to actually tell the truth, or get any REAL bad guys.

I don't believe we've seen or heard ANY real contemporary footage of Osama since 9-11. He is a fictional device brought out by the USA PATRIOT Gang when they are in trouble.

[FreedomAngel82]

73. Isn't he CIA funded?

And we did help in Afghainstan.

[chefgirl]

76. I call bullshit

My first thought was, " oh horseshit. Its just their latest lame attempt at scaring the sheep and using it as a perfect excuse for why we NEED to be wiretapping people."

After having most of the day to think about it, and having read the text a few times, and seeing McClellan's petulant little performance, it occurs to me that its the actual text of the message thats important this time.

If Karl Ro....err Osama, offers a truce, and the preznit plays tough guy and says 'we dont negotiate with terraists', then any Democrat who comes out in favor of pulling out of Iraq is just scared of Osama now.

I mean, c'mon, we all know the Democrats are just a bunch of cowards, and as soon as Osama opens his mouth (neat trick for someone who's more than likely dead) the Democrats want to 'cut and run'. Now, more than ever, we must stay the course. :sarcasm:

Won't surprise me to hear this as their next talking point.

-chef-

[rodeodance]

79. RW chorus tonight has been--OBL sounds like the Dems:

[chefgirl]

83. Ahh...thanks.

See? I haven't even been home all night. Haven't caught any news, except little bits I've heard on the radio.

Guess I was right, then. It's almost sad how easy it's getting to be to figure out their schtick!

-chef-

[obxhead]

78. Does anyone here actually believe OBL is alive?

I'm just asking....

Dialysis
living in cold caves
Earthquakes
US bombs
etc, etc, etc.....

I'm just asking.....

[Cleita]

87. I'll bet Scotty McClellan does.

Let's hope Helen Thomas gets to ask him the question.

:evilgrin:

[rumpel]

91. He could be. Under the US witness protection program...

[obxhead]

92. something like that for sure.....

:) Gotta keep the war alive don't we......

[deutsey]

98. Anyone heard about the allegedly phoney Saddam tapes?

From something I wrote for Buzzflash a couple years ago:

The Asia Times article revealed an alleged campaign to discredit Saddam Hussein led by the Rendon Group, a DC-based public relations firms with close ties to the US government. According the article, the firm hired an Iraqi Harvard graduate student, known for his ability to impersonate Hussein, to "translate and dub spoofed Saddam Hussein speeches and tongue-in-cheek newscasts for broadcast throughout Iraq."

The student was paid $3,000 for working with the Rendon Group to record his impersonation of Saddam Hussein, which was then passed off in Iraq as actual recordings of the Iraqi dictator.

The article quotes the student as saying: "We did skits where Saddam would get mixed up in his own lies, or where Qusay would stumble over his own delusions of grandeur." The student also said he was never quite sure who was behind the disinformation campaign: "I never got a straight answer on whether the Iraqi resistance, the CIA or policy makers on the Hill were actually the ones calling the shots."

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/02/03_Crank.html

[Cleita]

99. I wonder if they could take apart the words.

Could they splice in actual words that Osama spoke in different tapes, putting them together in new sentences? Then could they get an impersonator to say the words that Osama never has said on tape, like the American colloquialisms? Could this make the tape seem authentic?

Is there anyone out there who has the equipment to investigate this? I bookmarked that Buzzflash article. Thanks for posting.

[Nikki Stone 1]

101. Interesting that that linguistic tidbit ended up on the air

...

[Cleita]

102. It was PBS and it was live.

I don't think they realized what a bomb was dropped at the time because the discussion was really more about who was really in charge of al Queda these days. It was almost an aside.

I honestly didn't think much of it until I started thinking about it and went, "wait a minute!".

[Nikki Stone 1]

103. Ah...I hope someone Tivo'd it and can send it to Randy Rhodes

;;

[Cleita]

105. DUer Stephanie posted this and the transcript.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=189557&mesg_id=189557

[toymachines]

106. I heard that it is in an Egyptian dialect

Someone on the television last night, who seemed to know what he was talking about, said it sounded like an Egyptian had at least written what he said, if it is even OBL. Along with the lack of Koran context and other things I don't trust this tape at all.

[Carni]

108. I think this may be proof the person on the tape isn't bin laden

Or that bin forgotten didn't write the tape--it certainly doesn't look right.

I posted a thread on this earlier, but I had the wrong saying (I thought peace be upon him was missing from his speech--it's not that, it's "Praise and glory be to him" that is not present in his blatherings.

If you go to this link below you will see a 1997 transcript of a UBL interview NOTE just about everytime he says God he follows it with "praise and glory be to him" he does it CONSTANTLY and I have included a couple of copied and pasted examples below the link.


http://www.anusha.com/osamaint.htm
(there is also a PDF of this interview of findlaw and it's the same but I cannot copy and paste it)

"BIN LADIN: We are confident, with the permission of God, Praise and Glory be to Him, that Muslims will be victorious in the Arabian peninsula and that God's religion, praise and glory be to Him, will prevail in this peninsula. It is a great pride and a big hope that the revelation unto Muhammad, Peace be upon him, will be resorted to for ruling. When we used to follow Muhammad's revelation, Peace be upon him, we were in great happiness and in great dignity, to God belong credit and praise."

"BIN LADIN: We are a nation and have a long history, with the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to Him. We are now in the 15th century of this great religion, the complete and comprehensive methodology, has clarified the dealing between an individual and another, the duties of the believer towards God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the relationship between the Muslim country and other countries in time of peace and in time of war. If we look back at our history, we will find there were many types of dealings between the Muslim nation and the other nations in time of peace and in time of war, including treaties and matters to do with commerce. So it is not a new thing that we need to come up with. Rather, it already, by the grace of God, exists. As for oil, it is a commodity that will be subject to the price of the market according to supply and demand. We believe that the current prices are not realistic due to the Saudi regime playing the role of a US agent and the pressures exercised by the US on the Saudi regime to increase production and flooding the market that caused a sharp decrease in oil prices."



NOW if you look at the text from the al jeezeera website of his speech yesterday you will notice that he doesn't do this EVEN ONCE (where as he does it dozens of times in the 1997 interview)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4628932.stm

Text: 'Bin-Laden tape'

"These crimes include the raping of women and taking them hostage instead of their husbands. There is no power but in God."

"I say that despite all the barbaric methods, they have failed to ease resistance, and the number of mujahideen, praise be to God, is increasing."

"Operations are under preparation, and you will see them on your own ground once they are finished, God willing."

"We are a nation, for which God has disallowed treachery and lying."


"Finally, I would like to tell you that the war is for you or for us to win. If we win it, it means your defeat and disgrace forever as the wind blows in this direction with God's help."


I have included the paragraphs from yesterdays transcripts above that just blatantly should have the "praise and glory be to him" thing on the end if his usual pattern of the 97 interview was followed.

If you don't believe how characteristic this saying is of bin laden do a google search and type in "God praise and glory be to him" and many of the hits will be to bin laden related interviews and announcements by him!

This pretty much proves to me he didn't write the text of the tape-- JMO and after studying the tape he supposedly put out right before the 04 election? It also doesn't contain the characteristic "praise and glory be to him thing"