It is very interesting that the only way this alleged terror plot was

[eccles12]

discovered was from a tip from Muslim neighbors. I just heard that on the news. It was not UK or US intel that first discovered these individuals but rather it was suspicious neighbors who went to UK authorities. After that alert, the Brits began to monitor the suspects and then intel operatives began their work. Just fascinating! And yet to watch the major cable and other media outlets you would think that sharp intelligence resulted in the discovery first.

It also bothers me that it is alleged that some of the suspects traveled to Pakistan to meet with Al-Qaeda leaders? How is it that British citizens can travel to Pakistan and meet with these people and the best intel in the US and UK can't seem to locate them? If these suspects did meet with A-Q, while under surveillence, why weren't the A-Q operatives arrested? I guess I just don't understand.

[sgxnk]

1. um...

the first part of smart intelligence is having your eyes and ears open for tips. it's awesome that a muslim neighbor reported on these guys, but that was just a tip. developing the investigation into the fullblown capture of all the operatives was where intel/surveillance etc. kicked in

that's how police work often works. we don't catch guys cause we are brilliant, or using nifty james bond stuff

it's basic police work - talking to people, developing leads, and being doggedly persistent

a very large %age of serious crimes are solved because it all started with one person giving a tip

as for the aq guys not being arrested... who knows?

i could think of a couple of reasons...

but tht would be just speculation

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. ummm.... it was pure dumb luck. Say it. I know you can.

You need to know where to look for the needle in the haystack first- and it was plain old luck which gave the surveillance apparatus the spot to home in on. WIthout it, it seems in this case we would hav been f'd.
And then please explain what random phone tapping and the war in Iraq has to do with fighting terrorism.

[sgxnk]

13. speculation

yes, it was luck that they got an informant

but i can tell you as a leo myself, this is how tons of investigations are STARTED

it was not luck that allowed them to develop a lead into a full blown investigation of inchoate crimes that ultimately led to stopping them before they struck

that's proactive investigating 101

you of course have no idea whether if the tip didn't happen, they would have developed other independant leads. that's just a guess on your part

and cut the strawmen. it wasn't "random phone tapping" i referred to

read it again.

it was using electronic surveillance etc.

so stick to the topic . your strawmen and bald speculation are signs you are desperate to make a point that you are unable to back up with actual case facts

[WCGreen]

2. In this country, if that happened, the cops would go get a warrent...

from a judge and put them under observation...

You know, I don't understand why we have to cut corners for terrorists when we have done just fine capturing Mobsters for years by following the rules...

[Name removed]

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[WCGreen]

6. Yep....

It has too...

Cause we live in a free society...

Why do you hate our freedom.....

[Name removed]

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[WCGreen]

10. Kind of like the Bush Wars in 1991 and the one going on

right now...

Indiscriminate Murder...

Yep, but we call it collateral damage....

[Name removed]

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[NMMNG]

15. You call what we have right now freedom?

These radicals are out to commit as much murder as possible, and they don't even operate with a care for their own life as they believe that one of the sure ways to Heaven is through death while fighting infidels.


Wrong. That's a myth perpetuated by people who have no clue about Islam.







The more important question is, who is privileged to enter heaven according to Islam? That's a topic for another node.(Hint: Islam is unambiguous on the issue of suicide and hurting innocent people; they're Completely sinful) In case it's not clear to anyone, Terrorists who hurt innocent people are sinning, so it's up to Allah if they'll go to Paradise or not. You see, bad deeds aren't rewarded, only punished.


http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=72%20Virgins%20in%20Paradise


And the "72 Virgins" stuff is BS too.


And the US appears to be out to commit as many murders as possible. They just do it under the guise of "protecting the nation" and call their killers heroes. Funny how some people scream "barbarism" when a Muslim kills a woman or child but shrugs of the same behavior committed by an American soldier as "collateral damage".

[sgxnk]

16. yes

because there is NO difference between a guy kidnapping a journalist and sawing off his head with a knife, all the while making statements specifically related to islam

and...

an attack directed at terrorists that also causes collateral damage

yup.

no difference whatsoever

moral equivalency. yer soaking it it

if collateral damage always makes any military action wrong, then no wars could ever be fought . period

but we all know that some wars are necessary, and self-defense is justified.

otoh, we establish rules of war, as an international community, and we ON THE WHOLE follow them. and when we don't follow them, WE punish our own for their trangressions. and handwring endlessly about it. heck, we even believe and invent total falsehoods about our behavior because we are that quick to condemn ourselves (see; the koran in the toilet lies in the MSM).

they, otoh, completely ignore rules of war, kidnap frigging journalists, humanitarian workers, and anybody else they can get their hands on, target innocent teenagers in a disco (TARGET them), strap bombs to children's chests, purposefully snuff out innocents in an office building (oh, excuse me--- those were just little eichmanns and deserved to die, etc.)

[NMMNG]

17. What difference is there

Between the kidnapping and beheading of a journalist

and

The gang-raping and killing of a child, and the killing of her entire family?



Both are morally reprehensible acts. We have nothing at all to be proud of. We have engaged in an unnecessary, immoral invasion and occupation of another nation and some people are crying about the rebound effects it has caused. Did you think the Iraqis were just going to roll over and play dead when we went over there? Would you suggest America do so if Iraq invaded us?

[treestar]

3. That does undermine the freeper allegation that the Muslims

ALL want to "kill us." The collective guilt thing. This sort of undermines that.

Don't tell the freepers. Their heads will explode.

[Name removed]

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[Artdyst]

7. Really want to know how these things work? Visit the DU9/11 forum. nt

nt

[benddem]

8. Wasn't it

GWB, Cheney and Lieberman who discovered the plot? I was sure from the way the repugs were acting they were the ones whose great abilities found the evil doers. :sarcasm:

[orleans]

11. heard tonight on cnn :

"'Do your attacks now' message triggered arrests"
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/11/terror.details/index.html

[Amonester]

18. Any warrants?

Counterterrorism officials used telephone records, e-mails and bank records to connect the suspects and build a detailed picture of the conspiracy, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security said. Their spending habits and bank accounts also were traced by a unit that monitors the flow of money to provide evidence of association, the memo said.

So it's OK to say it publicly now, it seems...
I thought Cult-herr issued threats to the NYT for doing the same...
/sarcasm