As expected, no evidence of bombs or materials. Only speculation

[The_Casual_Observer]

via unnamed "Homeland Security" officials. They are getting desperate, they have added fertilizer bombs to the list of possibilities. Also an alleged "German connection" has been floated to give the whole mess a 9/11 slant.

Meanwhile, the detainees are complaining of mistreatment. I give this thing another day or so, they are stretching it to the snapping point. The first thing to go will be the TSA rules, Starbucks has lost a lot of money for nothing.

[babylonsister]

1. Add Duty Free shops that make most of their profit from

selling booze and perfume, plus all the Bath and Body Works stores at airports. I think we're about to hear a rukus if the gov'ts don't 'justify' it. Either way, however this shakes out, there's a lot of people who won't believe whatever the final story is.

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. There must be a science to the way these "plot" things unfold & dissolve

After 20 or so more the pattern will be well established & 100% predictable.

So far it seems to go like this:

Day one: Mid morning announcement (east coast) of big terror plot.

TSA has already prepared & immediately starts new round of restrictions causing long delays.

Fox news & cnn start 24/7 coverage


End of Day one: Lack of any substantial facts or evidence that support the announcement. Repeat
original claims & embellish with unrelated information from unnamed sources.


Day two: No more new information, release of a detainee or two without charges. Stand tall on the TSA
bullshit & terrorist threat claims.

Day Three: No information, reports begin to weaken case, doubts & cracks form.

Day Four & beyond: No information, plot is quietly discredited a few guys are held on child porn charges (after they check "my documents", TSA rules change back. "What plot?"

[DemonFighterLives]

22. we're on the downhill side now

but the deluded 29% are still groovin on it.
Kill, kill, kill.
War without end. Amen.
:dem:

[bahrbearian]

5. Duty Free shops are in the Secured Area , after screening

it should be a big boost to the shops.

[The_Casual_Observer]

8. Those maniacs made them "throw away" expensive hooch & perfume

from those stores. It didn't matter secure or not. BTW, where did that hooch end up? It didn't end up in the dumpster I'll bet.

[pitohui]

9. duty free shops are losing a fortune and some have been closed

from the tsa.gov advisory:

Beverages purchased in the boarding area (beyond the screening checkpoint) will not be allowed on board, and must be consumed before boarding.

for some reason, on several other threads, people want to debate this matter but there is nothing to debate

duty free can no longer sell you the bottle of scotch, wine, etc. because you can't bring it on board

or maybe you want to drink an entire bottle of scotch before boarding an airplane, in that case, you're a better man than i, my friend

[bahrbearian]

16. My bad, I didn't know that.

[babylonsister]

10. Nope. The products as of now are not allowed to be sold. I got a bottle

of water inside the secured area at an airport today, they put the water in a styrofoam cup; no bottles w/liquid allowed. This was in New Orleans.

[Debau2005]

I got the whole bottle I bought

but had to down it before boarding. This was in El Paso.

[bahrbearian]

19. I hope it wasn't a bottle of Channel.

[Debau2005]

20. haha

It was one of those overly expensive bottles of water that usually lasts me all day.

[bahrbearian]

17. Well that sucks, my bad.

[Debau2005]

15. Nope!

They are not letting you on the plane with it, even if you buy it inside the security area. I just got home from a flight. My bags were searched at the gate in Houston before I boarded the plane. No beverages from the gate restaurants allowed either.

[bahrbearian]

18. My bad, I didn't know that.

[C_U_L8R]

29. and the five dollar coca colas

they sell onboard the flights

[bahrbearian]

3. No passports , no ingredients, no tickets,, just talk?

[Mr_Spock]

4. I'll give it a while longer

No need to make a snap judgement here for me.

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Wait as long as you want. My advice is not to hold your breath while

waiting.

[Mr_Spock]

12. True

So long as I don't have to hear too much more about this story I'll be just fine.

I expect these plots to be caught (if they are truly plots) without me needing to know about it.

As you are pointing out, it's even more likley that the plot was overblown when they make such a big deal about it.

I'm just not in a hurry - I would like to have the most evidence possible if I am going to repeat such a revelation.

[whistle]

7. Can toilets on-board airplanes be made to explode? Just curious

...they contain liquid, chemicals and fertilizers. Just add sulfur and charcoal and voila...an in-flight crapper bomb!

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Some nitwit on here would probably proffer a righteous sounding

argument in support of a toilet based explosive, "it's easy, it's been tried, ever seen a fart go up in flames?"

[sandnsea]

13. Some ingredients were purchased

Just not all the incredients. Some didn't have passports, some did. Some have been known and under surveillance for a while. Exploding the materials has been observed in Pakistan. The problem is that they interrupted this investigation for political purposes which is the reason it didn't get fully implemented, not that the group wasn't far down the line in planning.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. Let me guess, baking soda & vinegar?

[KG]

21. the paper-mache volcano!

what will those dasterdly terrorist think of next?

[DemonFighterLives]

24. The whole kit and kaboodle

:nuke:

[sandnsea]

26. Or maybe useless box cutters

The cynicism is really not cute. If the 9/11 hijackers had been picked up in advance, there wouldn't have been much evidence against them either.

[The_Casual_Observer]

34. I would love to be proved wrong about this & all the other bullshit

terror panics & Iraqi WMD scares. Everyone would truly love to believe that a plot was foiled.

What truly boils my ass is having jr out there having a field day on the basis of nothing of any substance.

[Sinti]

25. Really, where did you get this info?

Which ingredients, may I ask, do you know?

[sandnsea]

27. what difference does it make

No source is good enough for DU on matters like this anyway. If anyone clicked and actually read 2-3 complete news articles, they wouldn't be saying there was no plot at all if they were honest about it.

[Sinti]

28. Not trying to question your assertion. I actually have read many articles

I haven't seen anyone say they had the materials. Personally, I'd strongly prefer to know they did. I'm not saying there was no plot, I just wanted to know if they had a real case. If I were to say I'm gonna sell dope to someone, and had plastic bags, and a telephone, could I be arrested before purchasing the narcotics?

I apologize if my question offended you at all, really. :)

[sandnsea]

30. Well here it is

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14320452/

I suppose the relevance of your plastic bags in court would depend on the rest of the evidence - your associations, taped conversations, etc.

[Sinti]

31. Thank you very much :) So they did have some components.

I have a problem with the fact that they could potentially arrest someone for taped conversations and associates, but without the dope. That makes it a thought crime. FWIW thought crimes are anathema to the rule of law as I understand it.

As a teenager I had many friends who fancied themselves "anarchists". They talked about plans to do all sorts of nutty things. They owned books that taught them how to do potentially dangerous and illegal things. The books themselves were not yet illegal. It never went farther than talk, though. They never bought any chemicals or committed any crimes of the kind they fantasized about. They are now productive, law abiding members of society. Should they have been arrested then?

Also, I was concerned over the possibility that in their rushing of the Brits to make an arrest, our guys may have messed up what would have been a solid case against some really bad guys.

[sandnsea]

32. And some had passports and explosives were tested

Having some of the means in place to execute the plot is what moves it into crime territory. These people weren't just talking, they had clearly moved well beyond that what with trips to Pakistan and all; it's high time some folks on DU face reality about terrorists who want to kill people.

I do agree with your last comment though, I do think the Bushies pushed the arrest in order to own the August campaign cycle. They truly are despicable, there's no amount of low that's low enough to describe them.

[Sinti]

35. It seems to show how much they care for our security

versus their PR. I'm glad they caught them, personally. I don't think you can question that there are people who want to kill us. Pakistan (with a few other places) has been a breeding ground for them for over a decade. In fact, if anything I think there are more now than there were before, and will be even more if we continue on our current path.

OTOH, in the prevention and prosecution of crimes I don't want to lose my liberty. There are always dangers. You have to strike a balance IMO - and god knows the neocons love to over-reach.

[sandnsea]

36. I agree with that

There certainly has been over-reaching but it seems to me it would be prudent to wait until we have all the facts to make the charge. And when the charge is made, as many have been, it would be helpful if our attention wasn't so easily distracted so that we could push some of this bogus stuff to the forefront. Quite frankly that would be more useful than Randi Rhodes having bets with Boortz about ragheads and stupid shit like that.

[Sinti]

41. "ragheads" - this kind of language just makes my blood run cold

and gives me a weird sick feeling in my stomach. What the hell is wrong with people - I know most of these folks are educated. I can't listen to talk radio of any flavor - it's like verbal voodoo to my ears and makes me feel like I'm coming unhinged.

Thanks again - I appreciate your level-headedness. It's kind of hard to come by in these trying times, with crises piled upon crises - ah well...

[Justice Is Comin]

23. If you took a swig of your shampoo

would they have to let it on board? :silly:

[leesa]

33. They don't even have enough evidence to charge these guys. Pathetic

[Roland99]

37. Which detainees? The ones held by the British?

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. Yes, sorry for the possible confusion about this & the

cell phone salesmen.

[Roland99]

39. Is there a link for this latest development?

[The_Casual_Observer]

40. I saw the report here:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/08/12/terror.plot.lawyer/index.html

[Marr]

42. But you know what? Next time they pull the same stunt, the media will go

right back into P.A. system mode, shouting government claims as though they're the gospel.

[The_Casual_Observer]

43. It's two things, the excuse is "better safe than sorry"

the fact is "It's a sensational story, the advertisers love it".