DU parents I need assurances so that I can sleep tonight.

[liberalitch]

Assure me that you have taught your children to say "Please" and "Thank you" at the appropriate moments. Assure me that you have taught them that, while in public, they must respect those around them in terms of personal space and fairness "of the game." Do your children look where they are going? If your child does bump into other people do they say "Excuse me" or "I'm sorry."? I need to know that there are parents out there who still raise their children to do these things.

This weekend The Commie and I went to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg with another couple. The weather was made to order. The hotel room and staff were awesome. The food and service at a colonial tavern the night before was…. Heavenly. But our misery started when we went to Busch Gardens the next day.

Let me preface EVERYTHING that I am about to say with this: I like kids and I understand their uncontrollable excitement at being in a place like Busch Gardens. Shit, I'm pretty excited myself. I also believe that parents need to set guidelines on days like this so that the day goes safely and smoothly for everyone…. To a certain extent, the rules in the park serve the same purpose.

What we experienced was mortifying!!!!!

Parents and children were cutting in line (wonder where they learn fairness from?). This is an offense that, if they were caught, would get them thrown out of the park…. It is also just fucking rude to everyone else waiting in line. And…. Yes, I turned one guy in when he and his buddies jumped the rail in front of the group of "differently abled" kids at the Loch Ness Monster. I had had enough by that time.

Parents and children were using strollers as battering rams to get through crowds. Kids were running over adults and smaller kids in some cases yelling "MOVE!!!" and pushing people out of the way. Most of the time the parents were inattentive or thought it was "cute". I don't really blame the kids. On the few occasions when I did step on someone's kid or impede their progress I and said, "Excuse me", the child looked at me as though I was speaking some funky language that clearly they had never heard before. Trust me these were all American kids so there wasn't a classical language barrier,…. Just a cultural one.

My family vacationed as all families do and when we did there were standards of behavior. I remember many times being told to "Hold my horses" or "Cool my jets." My father explained to me when I was small that in the morning a hotel hallway is a hallway of bedrooms so you mustn't run down it screaming. I understood that and I know most children would understand the same if they had parents who told them.

I do have an explanation for all of this. You are allowed to say that I need a psychology class/shrink, but you have read this far. These are what The Commie and I call "Red State parents". They are blustering and rude. They don't care about the environment or the arts and they care even less about the less fortunate. They want their kids to hate fags and hit back. They take before they think they'll be taken from and they expect the same of their off spring. And worst of all,… they have elected George W. Bush.

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Well, you had me until the last paragraph.

I have witnessed the same behavior in 'blue states' and I live in VA.

It's a general rudeness brought about by a culture that only cares if 'I get mine'.

I hadn't experienced that at Busch Gardens before. We have been pass holders for about 15 years, with the exception of this summer.

I have seen obnoxiously stupid parents with their obnoxiously stupid kids in public, but I have also seen very nice kids as well.

[liberalitch]

7. Va. is where I live too....

I'll put you in the she needs a shrink category then.... that's usually the largest one!
:-)

[LostinVA]

22. We have season passes to BG, and go there many times in the summer

And, although we see the occasion rude behavior from adults and kids, it's few and far between. I've only seen people just a line ONCE -- some major redneck dudes -- and they were yelled out and pulled out of line by a guard.

[liberalitch]

28. We have season passes too, but yesterday was awful!

many some gas was pumped into the park..... who knows.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

93. I have to agree...

Poor parenting is not a political phenomenon. I've met conscientious parents of every imaginable party affiliation as well. It's not a religious matter either.

A number of years ago, when I took my son for a visit to Kings Dominion (also in VA), a passel of kids cut in front of the person who was directly behind me in line. Not yet in the ride "corral", I assumed the youngsters were simply unaware of the end of the line. So I politely informed them that the gentleman behind me was there before they were. Their mother, (at least, I assume she was their mother), came up to me and told me that it was none of my damn business if they cut in front of someone in back of me.

I looked at the gentleman who'd been cut off, and he said, shaking his head, "It's not worth it." and for the next 20 minutes, this woman (an African American) spewed the filthiest language (racial epithets included) imaginable while I waited in line with my 8 year old. When I was close enough to speak with an attendant, I told him what had happened, and the woman and her kids were escorted from the park. Oddly enough, I saw her and her kids about 2 years later, in a Kohl's store not far from where I live. I didn't recognize her at first, but apparently she recognized me; because there in the middle of the store she started spewing obscenities all over again.

What a pathetic, ignorant, slob....teaching her kids to be just like her. Very sad.

[Dorian Gray]

95. I agree.

I live in NYC, a very liberal place, and I see this type of behavior all the time. And my friend, a second grade teacher in Los Angeles, speaks of the "entitlement culture" that her students constantly display. It's not about being a red stater or blue stater. It's about kids who are not taught by their parents that nobody likes a selfish asshole.

[fidgeting wildly]

100. Me too.

I've been in NYC for six months now, moved here from Dallas, and blue state kids are just as bad a red state kids. I am the oldest of four sisters, and we could be as bad as any group of four girls ever were, but in public, my mother could shut us up with a look. I was taught to be quiet and respectful in "adult" places (which basically meant anywhere other than a playground), and to step aside and let adults pass, and to not touch things in stores, etc. It's not like that now. But it certainly has nothing to do with state lines.

[elehhhhna]

2. Yes the gals know their manners.

Always use 'em ? Maybe not. Act like animals in public as you described? Not on their lives. Hell, my 12 y/o won the Tom, DeLay Good Citizenship Award in 5th grade ( the teachers selcted her). I am not making this up.

[villager]

3. It was a "Welcome to America" moment...

But this DU parent is raising "blue" kids!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

11. Kids?? A little old, aren't they??

[liberalitch]

27. LOL! Watch the show.... smurfs know what's up....

[villager]

32. well, now, if you're dragging the unspoken of "blue cousins"

into the fray...

[HysteryDiagnosis]

54. Pardon me sir, ma'am, but may I twist my cue stick up under

your armpit there??? I need to put a lot of english on this shot... :)

[Texasgal]

4. Are you fucking kidding me?

I agreed with you until the last paragraph.

Rude kids can be found in ANY state... including BLUE ones.

George Bush has nothing to do with how children are raised!

Jesus christ! There is enough crap to bust chimpy on... but rude kids that must be from "rude states"? Good lord!

[liberalitch]

8. I'm saying I noticed it becoming more culturally acceptable to be rude...

after we got the idiot king

[Texasgal]

16. That is simply not true...

People have been getting progressively worse over decades now.

Think about it... People were ruder and more self-serving the the 80's as opposed to the 70's.

I hate the chimp as much as anyone else here... but to blame it on "red-state" and W is really silly.

I came across the rudest kids EVER in Boston...explain that?

And it should be noted that many many young parents are voting more lefty now days.

[LostinVA]

24. Yup

[Yupster]

36. I taught public school from

1980-1990, and the kids got progressively worse each year. Teachers tell me it's only gotten worse each year since I've left too.

[liberalitch]

51. I have some great kids, but it is bad.

[Robbien]

5. Not a parent, but yeah I've noticed it also

Also noticed there are many more adults walking around with the same attitude.

I feel it has alot to do with television. There are so few shows which advocate being polite and doing for others before doing for oneself. Everything is all about me, me, me.

They use to call the 90's the "ME Generation". This generation has got that one beat.

edit: Meant to say yes I do agree with you, except for the red/blue state business. I live in a bluer than blue state and it is still happening here.

[liberalitch]

10. Oh, I think that "GWism" is only one factor in our cultural decline....

Gotta feed cats now.... meowing constant...... clawing at foot

[leftchick]

6. My boys are taught to hold doors open

for everyone not just older folks. Yes, my children are taught everything I was taught including chewing with your mouth closed.

As a parent it is maddening for me to explain to my children why they are expected to have good manners when most of the children they know, do not.

[seabeyond]

35. i have such gentleboys myself, and chew mouth close... though

still they wonder in front of people and only almost always say please and thank you, wink.

[guinivere]

9. Rude kids are everywhere and they come from everywhere.

I raised my sons to be courteous and considerate.

[liberalitch]

13. Agreed.... manners is all I ask.

i know how hard it is to "be good" with Apollo's Chariot right there.

[senseandsensibility]

12. Now you know what public school teachers go through

We are on a very tight timeline to teach a very structured curriculum. But I must spend at least a month at the beginning of every school year teaching basic etiquette and behavior rules that none are taught at home. If I don't, good luck learning anything for the rest of the year! Of course this time to teach manners is not accounted for anywhere in the curriculum that we are to keep up with at all costs, so it is literally a catch twenty two. I do spend the time to do this, in spite of the stress, but get no recognition for it (as indeed, few teachers get for anything), but that's teaching. You either to learn to deal with it or tough luck.

[liberalitch]

15. I are one....

14 years.... Phoebus High Hampton, Va.

[senseandsensibility]

21. Well, maybe by high school their manners are better? Or not

an issue? That wasn't my experience teaching middle school; they also needed an intensive course in manners. But so do the little ones.

[liberalitch]

26. It's an issue.... But for the past 6 years I've taught AP History....

You would probably agree with me that the parents of kids who care deeply about their academic futures (regardless of ANY demographic) have taught those children some "decorum"

[dflprincess]

14. I am not a parent but my nieces and nephews have been taught

to say "please", "thank you" and "excuse me". One time I had my two youngest nephews at a movie when they were about 5 and 6, while we were waiting in line to buy tickets, they restarted their never ending game of "I got you last" and, when they wouldn't settle down after several requests from me, I yanked them out of line and dragged them home. I had to do this a couple times with them before they got the message that when they were with me they would not behave like they were raised by wolves (which probably isn't fair, wolf cubs are generally taught to behave better).

Sadly, though, I notice a lot of uncontrolled children (not excited over where there are, just plain brats) and I can only assume they're learning this from their parents because I seem to notice a lot of rude adults these days. Have you seen the Hummer commercial where a mother and child butt in line ahead of another woman and her kid? The rude mom asks the other mom what she's going to do about it, and the next thing we see is the mom who was cut in on going out to buy a Hummer. I guess the message is, no one will push her around again.

This is probably a natural product of the "me first" society we've been living in ever since Reagan was president.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

39. I was just in the grocery store this morning and complained about rude

people.

It was pretty busy (Winco) and people were going down the middle of isles, parking them right there and not paying attention to others. Once I was reaching for a can, and this lady rolled her cart right in front of it, pulled two cans off the shelf and started comparing labels. I just stood there, I wanted to see how long it would take her to move. Over a minute she stood there, regardless that she was blocking me from the front, and two other people behind her. Just one of several this morning... my son was with me, it was a good time for a reminder about being polite.

[Breeze54]

44. Hey? You must shop where I shop!?

:rofl:

[ebayfool]

78. I had one of those last Xmas -

shopping at a toy store & had a woman not just block me but reach INTO my shopping cart & pull out what she wanted!

The ensuing altercation was applauded by all in the row! (yes, I got the toy back!)

It's not just kids, they learn it from watching the adults around them. Imagine that particular lady's kids at a play group spotting another child w/a toy THEY wanted!


OTOH -
It's not red v. blue though. I live in a verrrry red part of California & a few weeks back had the rather disconcerting experience of a 20ish fellow (wearing a mullet, no less!) hold the door open for me. As he blocked some teens trying to mow me down when I went through, he said "I was opening the door for YOU, Mother!". In the Dust Bowl transplants I was raised with, calling an older female 'mother' is a term or respect & endearment. Double shock - realizing I was old enough to be called 'mother' by a stranger :cry: & manners being enforced on a bunch of little heathens! :rofl:

Gotta find my rocker now & sit a spell!

[LibDemAlways]

91. The other day at the market I entered right behind a

woman with three children who had zero manners. She walked on ahead while they blocked the narrow entrance to the baked goods area with their cart which they were wiggling back and forth to scare the youngest who had climbed inside. I asked them politely to please move the cart so I could pass by. The mother overheard and glanced back at me but did and said nothing. The kids just ignored me and continued to play.
I finally backed out and headed up another aisle. I figured it wasn't worth a confrontation with an idiot. Kids take their cues from adults. If a parent is a self-centered, impolite moron, the kids will be much the same. Common courtesy is becoming increasingly rare.

[donsu]

111. I say excuse me and start to move their carts or just move their carts

speak up, act up or be walked on

[The Straight Story]

17. I dunno, I feel at times uncomfortable around people with no kids myself

As they don't have to stress over every little thing and trying to keep an excited kid acting like and adult would, even though they are just kids.

Kids don't sit still usually, they like to jabber and point out things, they like to rush around and be kids. I have seen many a rude kid in my day, being around them so often, but overall I think most kids just want to expend energy in ways we adults just can't get.

They whine, throw fits, pout, and a lot of other things.

Some would say back in the day you could give em a swat on the ass and they would stop what they are doing. Now you have to try and reason with a tired 2 yr old after they were wanded and searched at an airport, herded onto a cramped plane, and told they can't have their bottle because it was confiscated due to terrorist fears. Good luck reasoning with them :)

Our daughter was not generally this way, and my 3 boys from previous marriage I raised (till oldest was 10) were pretty good acting anywhere we went. But there were times, like at the airport, when my wife felt all these people without kids were sneering at her while none tried to understand her side of life and the hell she was going through. Did anyone offer to help, offer a treat, smile and say 'man this crap is nuts ain't it?'.

Not bashing anyone here, just that sometimes we have to walk in the shoes of others to see what is really going on - and that not everything is an easily controlled environment with little ones.

Kids are rude, people are rude.

Blame the red states? They will blame prayer out of school and spankings being all but banned :)

Everyone has a cause, a reason, but to me the simplest is - kids are not adults.

[seabeyond]

33. very little patience for our fellow man today. very little n/t

[liberalitch]

58. One of the things I said was:

"Let me preface EVERYTHING that I am about to say with this: I like kids and I understand their uncontrollable excitement at being in a place like Busch Gardens. Shit, I'm pretty excited myself."

[The Straight Story]

72. I saw it :)

I did read the whole thing, promise!

But threads like these sometimes go off the beaten trail, so wanted to cover all the bases :)

Your excitement though is more internalized and perhaps agitated at waiting in lines, always waiting to get to the fun thing you want to do. Kids just don't care - waiting is ten times more hell for them ;)

I think they should just do things by a number system, pick a number, they announce when those numbers can ride, and you head over to the ride and not have to stand in line. Would solve the problem I think.

[liberalitch]

75. That is a system that would work!

But I was more pissed at parents not monitoring their child's behavior

[shanti]

90. and that is how it's done now at disneyland

it works great.

[seabeyond]

73. yes you did. just a fun thread to go hog wild on, wink n/t

[wellstone dem]

80. Good point

on another board a parent of an autistic child told of getting reprimanded for her kid's behavior, when the child was having a meltdown related to her disabilty. It opened my eyes about judging some behavior.

[BlooInBloo]

18. lol! Every parent here is perfect, and not the cause of the problem..

... that's for sure - from what you'll hear...

...Which of course IS the problem. No parent anywhere is the problem...

Just like the bigotry thread - everyone is apparently a victim, but NOBODY is the perpetrator. And yet DU is still perfectly happy with the racism-denial motto "it's not about race, it's about class".

Sheesh.

[seabeyond]

31. hey, my post below, though my kids are very well behaved, perfect

they are not and i admit it. but also as i state in that post, neither are a lot of adults. wink

[guinivere]

45. I don't want to give the impression that I'm a perfect

parent. There isn't any such thing. Believe me, those boys had their moments. You just have to make it clear to the kid from the start what is acceptable behavior.

[liberalitch]

63. Everything is about everything....

you know.... butterflies beating their wings in china and all that

[onecent]

19. I told my children Long ago, that manners are "FREE". Use them

liberally. I now tell my grandchildren the same thing.

I tell my husband, this younger generation is living in a disposable world. They buy nice things, don't take care of them, cuz they can go buy another. and another...and another. They leave expensive lawn furniture outside all winter, do not change oil in cars, DON'T take care of anything anymore....A newer model will appear (phones, computers, cars,etc).....and they can back it up by going out and BUYING whatever they want...when they want it.

I want it, and I want it NOW.

By the time these kids are 16 there is nothing left to want. They've done it all and purchased it all.

[Breeze54]

20. Other parents have asked me if

they could "borrow" my sons, when they were small because
they were "so polite and a pleasure to have around."
That's the truth! :rofl: But I've seen many rude, obnoxious
kids and parents here and I live in a very blue state!
Advice?
Stay away from amusement parks! I avoid them like the plague!
;)

[acmejack]

23. I used to know people down here that thought all Yankee's were rude.

So that red state, ahem, stuff may not be the explanation. We were taught to say yes sir, maam. Manners were important at one time in the South. I believe it is a societal issue in general, I see it on the bus when no one will give a seat to a lady, no one will give the senior seating to the seniors or the mobility impaired-the kids prefer those seats for some reason.

[SoCalDem]

25. Children who spend very little time with their actual parents

have a hard time learning the niceties of life. Kids raised in daycare get other-people's values and traits..and in a dog-eat-dog environment where many kids have to fight for attention of the "teacher", it's not surprising to see manners departing..

One of the first words I taught my boys was "please"..and then thank you.. Sometimes they got them mixed up and would reach for something and say "thank you" before they even got it..

Everything kids see in their daily life is about competition and being "first".. Is it any wonder that so many of them actually think they are the only person in the universe?

funny story:

We eat out every week with our grown son who lives in the same town.. A few weeks ago, his cell phone went off during dinner.. he got up, went outside and took the call.. While he was out there, the couple in the next booth finished their meal and when they got up to leave,m they came over to the table to thank us for raising a polite "boy"..( he's 27)

Small courtesies go a long way :)

[Breeze54]

30. All my kids went to daycare and after school care

and they also spent time with us! They had their days but I reeled them in
and they were polite in the Please and Thank You's. I accepted nothing less.

"Kids raised in daycare get other-people's values and traits"

Nope! Do not agree! Daycare isn't the whole blame.

Disciplining kids is the culprit, or lack there of...
Kids will behave in the way that is 'expected' of them!

Pushing and shoving and running others' over with baby carriages is unacceptable.
Kids learn what they're modeled in behavior. jmo. ;)

[SoCalDem]

37. Most kids do get parental discipline, but some do not

and those are the wild ones we all see every day ...everywhere...

I have friends who are guilt-ridden for having to leave their darlings in daycare, and they do very litlle disciplining of them.. their kids are BRATS!!

[Breeze54]

41. Well, remind them their job doesn't stop at the daycare door!

Maybe you should buy them a book on parenting? :shrug:

I used to feel guilty leaving my young one's in daycare
but I would have felt guiltier not having food on the table!
;)

[SoCalDem]

46. I don't spend much time with parents these days.. grandparents

are more my speed these days.. and yeeeeoww talk about spoiled rotten kiddies :)

Not yet being a grandma, and having raised my own already, I steer as clear of P.W.K as I possibly can :hi:

[Breeze54]

53. I'm an 'in-between' myself! LOL!

I don't have any grandkids and my youngest is almost 18 and will be out of HS next May!
I can't believe how time flies! I think I'm almost an 'empty nester'...he's never home anymore.

What's P.W.K. ? :shrug:

:hi: backatcha!! ;)

[SoCalDem]

55. people with kids

:)

[Breeze54]

57. Oh! ok...lol!

I'm a little slow on the uptake at times! :) TY!

[guinivere]

59. No, sorry. My kids had to go to daycare. We both had to work.

They learned from us and it was reinforced by the daycare.

I take issue with blaming working parents for bad behavior. It just isn't true in a lot of cases.

[Breeze54]

77. I agree!

:hug: :hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

84. I have to disagree about child care

Good care providers are happy to underline and continue with the lessons and values that their parents have decided are important. It's partly about choosing the right care, and partly about good communication between parents and caregivers.

[seabeyond]

29. to be fair....... lol lol

firstly a place like that is free for all., why i don't like them and do them often. secondly i have met many many polite red state families with exemplary manners.

yes my kids almost always say please and thank you. we work on it often and still a work in progress just as adults have to practice at saying it too. there are times my kids forget. inevitably my kids are walking in front of me or others, and i am continually on their ass for that but tends to appear that ALL kids have this issue more of a growing up thing, though we start young, so ahead of time .... if my kids get in your way, i apologize here and now but i will be the one yelling stay out of the adults way, ..... cause adults get just real pissy about that and i am extraordinarily polite to people, even pissy ones.

i am glad to hear you like kids and not just a kid bashing thread. but the place you went, adults and kids alike, not a chance in hell you are going ot get the cooperation you are seeking

oh and the cutting in line. my kids are so polite on the line thing adults cut in front of them continually to the point of me getting pissed off and standing up for them. so adults please..... will you set a better example for my children and pay attention to them standing in line and not take advantage of them, cutting in front of them because you are bigger thinking you get priority and allow them their place. because my kids will keep their mouth shut out of politeness and not challenging adults in their bad manners.

[JohMunich99]

34. Pffffffffffffffffff

I was thinking of all of the holes in your argument, but that's pure BS. If I moved from a Blue state to a red state, my manners wouldn't completely change. You are espousing the same ignorance that you claim your "red staters" have.

[seabeyond]

38. well, i live in a very very red area. i am the only blue in over 200k

ok,i may be exaggerating a tad. but really just a tad. and we have lots of people with wonderful manners, wink

[seabeyond]

40. then again the kids at the country club, cream of the crop

as they order the employees about i am constantly adding.... please, thank you..... and sit and wait until they catch on. out of all groups of kids i have been around these kids that have so much, seem to lack the most in discipline. it is always a trip at beginning of season to get used to all the "beautiful" people. but after a week of watching moms dealing with out of control kids i tell hubby, i am so happy with my life. i go around kissing my kids, you know how proud i am of you. how much i love you. kids know what is up and just laugh. they see it too

[liberalitch]

48. The beautiful people.... often don't know how their rudeness...

makes life less pleasant for the ugly people

[seabeyond]

49. it is a trip for us,and a wonderful lesson for my boys n/t

[CoffeeCat]

42. Thanks for your post...

...because I feel validated.

I have two girls--ages 5,6. We teach them to say "please" and "thank you" and to have table manners. We teach them to be kind, courteous and compassionate. We also teach them to be confident, spirited and experience life to the fullest. We dance with our children, sing with them, paint with them, color with them and we take them to all kinds of events and outings.

We are hands-on, very-engaged parents. I quit my job 6 years ago---the day I saw my baby for the first time. I knew I couldn't return to work, and I found myself catapulted into the world of a stay-at-home mom. Then, we had another girl 15 months later. I missed working 80-hour weeks as a media-relations manager for a high-tech company. I missed the lunches and my work clothes, and I was beginning to speak Elmo. Sometimes, I felt isolated and as if I'd made a choice that put me in the minority--or in a boring, mundane category.

However, I wouldn't trade a second. Both girls will be in school full time, starting this Thursday. I'm at the end of an era. It's been quite the ride. I'd like to think that I've impacted their lives---because I know that they've impacted my life and taught me more than I could have dreamed.

Thanks for your post. Sometimes I feel like I'm old-fashioned or in the minority--taking the path that I have.

Thanks for validating and supporting parents who try to instill values, manners and a sense of responsibility in their children.

[liberalitch]

62. It matters..... It all matters.

If we teach the children that such behavior makes life better for everyone.... everyone can have a better time at Busch Gardens.

[CoffeeCat]

87. Children who misbehave and don't...

...have boundaries, are not happy kids.

Kids test the limits. They'll fight you on the limitations you set. However, they WANT
to know that there are limits, rules and boundaries and that they are GOOD, WORTHWHILE
human beings who are worthy of the time and patient it takes to teach them.

I've seen loads of kids as you describe at Busch Gardens. They're not happy. They're
out of control and they seem lost.

My kids certainly aren't perfect. We've had meltdowns at the grocery store and I had
to abandon our cart full of groceries last week--because things got out of control. However,
my kids know that they are loved--and also that there are expectations for their behavior.

I imagine that a kid who didn't have any rules or expectations would be a frightened, overwhelmed
child.

That's probably why those Busch Gardens kids acted the way they did. When you're scared
and unsure of life--you turn inward and become selfish and un-empathetic because it's
difficult to get beyond your own insecurities.

:)

[liberalitch]

99. The students that I have who are the most successful....

have schedules and standards.
It frees their minds so that they can grow and chase their own dreams.

[breakaleg]

43. You are criticizing kids based on how they behave in a kids' theme park..

then you go on to criticize the parents for their bad parenting and boil it all down to their parenting.

Shame on you. Did I read correctly that you are a teacher? If so, I'm sure glad my well behaved, pleasant and extremely polite child is not in your class. I can't imaging what lessons you could teach him.

[Nicole]

47. I'm a red state parent who raised a polite, well mannered child

She is now an educated, polite & caring woman. Blustering and rude she isn't. She cares about those less fortunate,the environment and loves the arts. She was not brought up to hate or hit, fags or straights. I bet she wouldn't even hit a blue state snob!

I'm proud to claim that wonderful red state woman as my child. She's smart enough to know that bad parenting is a "skill" that knows no borders, state or country.

[Breeze54]

50. Well said!

;)

[Nicole]

69. Thank you!

:)

[liberalitch]

67. I'm not saying that red state aprents can't raise great kids....

I'm saying that the whole cultural attitude that surrounds Bush voters is a part of the mess we're in

[SmokingJacket]

52. I live in a very liberal town, and have found the kids to be quite

well behaved, for the most part -- so while I'm reluctant to blame Republicans for rude children... there is a correlation in my little corner of the world. I actually sometimes suspect that all these "horrible kid in restaurant" stories are made up, because I've rarely experienced it. Then again, I don't go to restaurants where there will be tons of kids, and I avoid things like amusement parks. I hate crowds.

I'm incredibly inflexible with my kids when it comes to public behavior: no loud voices or getting out of the seats in restaurants, please, thank you, etc. I do have one son who seems totally incapable of noticing when he bumps into people, but we're working hard on it.

Slightly off topic, but... I've noticed that people sometimes act insulted when I say, "Excuse me." I mean to indicate that I'm sorry for getting in their way, but the look on their faces makes me think I'm saying that THEY'RE in the way. Anybody else notice that?

[seabeyond]

61. hey... i don't see the out of control kids either. i wonder too

but then i dont get worked up if someone is talking on a cell phone anywhere near me, or wants to come in my lane, or wear headphones in public. i jsut really do not get bothered by people as some seem to. further, i quite enjoy people. i too stay away from the parks and crowds, bah hhahahah. why set myself up

[catzies]

56. LOL, "Red State Parents!" I met one in Utah. Kind of a funny story.

I was in a "family friendly" bar/restaurant in Salt Lake City, the kind with games like shooting basketballs, air hockey, bowling, etc.

My friend and I had paid for a bowling game and were taking turns, when somebody's 3-year old interrupts our game by jumping onto the elevated "bowling alley," and I said to him in my nicest voice (this is LDS country), "You should come down please, we're playing, okay?" And his mother comes over (I'm 40-something, she was 20-something), picks up her toddler & says to me under her breath as she walks past, "Fucking bitch."

:wow:

Red State parents. Perfect. It's all about them & their spawn.

[Texasgal]

60. How progressive of you!

Red State parents. Perfect. It's all about them & their spawn.


Statements like that make me wanna barf.... or laugh at the shear stupidity. :rollseyes:

[catzies]

82. Thank you for being the attitude police.

For the record I am a parent.

And the correct icon is " :eyes: "

[liberalitch]

64. Prefect example!

[earth mom]

65. I think good manners are disappearing too.

From both adults and children. These days when someone holds a door open for me upon entering a building, I feel surprised and pleased because in recent years, more often than not the person in front of me (young or old) lets it slam in my face! It's shocking really because I don't remember that happening when I was younger or if it did, it only did by accident. I find the disregard for manners or other peoples feelings really sad because it peels away a layer of our society that we need to function and get along with each other.

Yesterday I watched the movie Pride and Prejudice with Keira Knightly and the extreme politeness actually brought tears to my eyes at one point. I found myself wishing for a moment that we could go back to those days when people had a higher regard and respect for each other. Of course, I would miss all the modern conveniences...but for a moment it sounded great!

As far as our kids go...my kid learned to say please and thank you at about age 2 and a half. He wanted a popsicle and that's how we got him to say it-lol! He also knows he is not allowed to be a brat-at home or out in town or at school or there will be no new books, games, movies or toys. He is a good and happy kid.

No parent is perfect (I'm not) but I think there are a TON of unhappy kids out there who need more of their parents guidance and attention. It's sad what's happening to this country and it's kids. We can do better. :(

[Snivi Yllom]

66. it's not a red state blue state division

there are PLENTY of horrible kids with no manners here

It's about parenting, good parenting. And that is not a political issue, nor should it be a political issue.

[liberalitch]

68. We just use the term to describe a "cultural attitude"

[ScreamingMeemie]

70. Can I just say, as a parent, it depends on the adult, as to the behaviour

of the child. I have met many a single person with a "me first" attitude... actually quite more than children, which makes me ever grateful they have decided not to reproduce. Why? They're bigger. Blue states have their fair share of rude children, as do Gore voters, and Nader voters alike. Please. :eyes:

[REP]

89. How Do You Know They Have Decided Never To Reproduce?

Did you check for vasectomy/tubal ligation scars? Single doesn't always mean child-free - marriage these days isn't a required to have children! I know of many people who had children without the benefit of clergy - and I know many, many married childfree couples!

The other day I encountered a cast-iron infant; it must have been, otherwise, its mother wouldn't have thrust its stroller in front of my car (in the middle of the street, not in a pedestrian crosswalk). I have good brakes and fast reflexes, so I avoided damaging the paint on my car and the cast-iron infant.

[ScreamingMeemie]

101. Personally, I really don't care. I just hope whatever they are doing

holds. :D

[REP]

102. Ah. Just a Knee-Jerk Reaction.

So when you wrote, "... which makes me ever grateful they have decided not to reproduce" you have no idea whether those single people are single parents, merely single, or child-free. For all you know, it could have been a single parent grabbing a precious few moments out alone! But it's ever so nice to make assumptions that fit our prejudices, isn't it?

[ScreamingMeemie]

104. REP, all I know is they (the adults) tend to have the worst manners

I have seen. Since we're throwing generalizations around, fair is fair. Nice, isn't it?

And, to my credit, my coworker doesn't have and doesn't choose to have kids, and that's a wonderful thing.

I like it when the pot gets called black and gets all boil-y and huffy and stuff.

[REP]

105. Talk To Yourself Much?

You made the assinine "... which makes me ever grateful they have decided not to reproduce" comment and got caught. Sucks to the pot.

edit: typo

[ScreamingMeemie]

108. In reply to asinine comments made here. Ruffled much?

Sorry, rudeness runs the gamut of people. Single, parents and childless alike. :hi:

on edit: asinine...1 "s". Did I mention my daughter ( who is very well behaved in her own right) was a spelling bee champ and went to the Nationals in D.C....and managed to behave? ;) :hi:

[hedgehog]

71. My daughter always looks around before she takes a seat on a bus.

She's checking to make sure there isn't an older person who needs the seat.

On edit - I don't think we ever told the kids to say "please" and "thank-you"; we just always used those words with the kids and they picked them up naturally. In other words, we respected them and they learned to respect others. We also would instruct them sotto voice to run ahead and get a door or assist an older person with unloading a car when needed.

[seabeyond]

74. ahhhhhhh. that is sooooo cute. sweet n/t

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

76. Not all of us who live in VA voted for Shrub.

My sister and her husband (who have a daughter) didn't, too. I think poor manners are a problem , regardless of location; poor parenting is not limited to red or blue states. I do know that my parents and my husband's parents would have given us a good spanking if we had acted the way those kids had. Sorry you had a bad experience at Busch Gardens; it isn't exactly an inexpensive way to spend the day, either.

[wellstone dem]

79. Well it took awhile

but my 14 year old nephew and 18 year old daughter, after years of competing about who had the best camera, computer equipment, etc, gave each other a hug yesterday and a request to send email to each other as she said her goodbyes for college. I just about fell over. But the years of reminding each of them of good behavior, and how making friends takes "two-way" behavior have paid off. (I know this isn't quite on topic, but I'm just amazed.)

(By the way she's voting absentee for democrats!)

[LibertyLover]

81. My husband and I are trying

to instill manners in our 4 year old daughter. There are days when it's fine and others where it's a 10 minute temper tantrum when she doesn't get her way immediately because we have told her she must ask for something properly, i.e. "Please mommy may I have some juice." We have taken her to DisneyWorld several times already and she is not permitted to act in a manner you have described. If she starts to misbehave, it's back to the hotel for a time-out. My kid will have decent manners if it kills me and her in the process.

[knitter4democracy]

106. Me too.

"My kid will have decent manners if it kills me and her in the process."

Amen to that. I can't count how many times I've had to yank my kids back from running in front of other people and wait their turn, and they will learn to be respectful if it kills me.

[JerseygirlCT]

83. Well, can we just say that effort counts?

I can't promise you mine will always remember their pleases and thank yous w/o being prompted. I can tell you that the underlying lessons have stuck: kindness, thoughtfulness, being aware of how what you do impacts others. Whether that always results in Miss Manners type behavior... well, it doesn't.

And for me, it's the underlying attitudes that matter. Children with selfish parents often learn to model that behavior. Children who are generally kind to others have probably experienced kindness as an important value in their home.

I think some parents find themselves at a loss when confronted by behavior they don't like: they don't want to yell and scream as their parents may have (or resort to phsyical means of dealing with the behavior). But they don't know how else to handle things. Or they find it easier not to handle it at all and don't want their kids mad at them.

(Just for the record, my small one is mad at me right now. Mean mom got tired of the arguments!)

But to make you feel better, my experience has been that most parents, in fact a large majority, are raising nice kids, who may lack a little polish, but have their hearts in the right place. Maybe you just "lucked" into a bad crowd today?

[Aunt Anti-bush]

85. My son is one of the good kids.

He says please and thank you and is courteous and helpful and respects people. He also campaigns furiously for the impeachment of GW, but I know what you're saying and we run into those kinds of families and kids all the time. It's a shame how children are taught to hate and be disrespectful.

[mnhtnbb]

86. Raised both my boys to use their manners. Please, thank you,

no cutting in line. That's not to say that they haven't misbehaved. But I never have seen them behave rudely.

My husband and I were flying home last Sunday (thank goodness before the latest round of BS)and waiting in line to go through security at the Orlando airport. A woman, her husband, and daughter--about 8 or 9-- pushed their way around us to cut in front of us. I confronted her and asked her why she was cutting in line. She looked at me like I was nuts and then asked me why I should go ahead of her child. Talk about a disconnect! I told her that her daughter could wait her turn, just like everybody else! There was nothing wrong with this kid--other than probably being treated like she's some princess on a regular basis and deserving of more consideration than anybody else.

So, yes. I'm constantly astonished at parents who think their kids are better than anyone else--adults included.

But my favorite story was Thanksgivingm several years ago, when we went to the Keys in FL. We stayed at a family resort. We were having dinner, our first night, seated at a table that was adjacent to a lobby patio. Two kids were runnning around, screaming, yelling, jumping all over the place, in the lobby patio. This was not the pool, not the playground. The staff was doing nothing to shush these kids, ask the parents to move or anything.
So I got up, went over to the father and asked him whether he'd forgotten his duct tape? Then I turned around and went back to the table. Within 5 minutes he and the kids were gone, but not until after he yelled at me that what his kids were doing was none of my business.

These people who don't teach their kids manners don't care about anybody else. They are oblivious. They think they're special and the world owes them. And I would bet dollars to donuts that the majority of them are Republicans--but not necessarily from Red States. There are some of us from Red States who do know how to teach our kids to respect themselves and others. And I imagine some of these thoughtless kids/parents are from Blue States.

[Breeze54]

88. LOL! I used to use the old 'duct tape' threat too!

:rofl:
Duct tape! The answer to the world's problems.

People used to sympathize when my son(s) were acting up and say,
"You sure have your hands full! What are you going to do when they get older?"
And I'd respond, "Get a bigger bat!" :)

I bought 3 rolls of different color duct tape once, one for each (as a joke!),
made sure the boys saw it and then just let it sit there. 'nuff said! ;)

I called it psychological warfare! They laugh about it now!
They knew I was kidding with them...maybe!
:rofl:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

94. I used to tell them I would hang them in the closed by their feet....

They knew I wouldn't, really... but they knew I was pissed by that point.

Works like a charm to this day, and they are 15, 16 and 20. :evilgrin:

[Breeze54]

103. He,he!

My ex used to threaten to "stick 'em to the wall with Velcro!" :)
Then, of course, the boys would have to demonstrate what that would be like!
Silly, giggly, rambunctious, imaginative boys, under the age of 12, are a trip!
:)

[Dem2theMax]

92. The first thing I would do is -

teach my children to NEVER use the word 'fags' for ANY reason on earth.


And the red states have no monopoly on rude children. Statements like that just make everything worse.

[pooja]

96. This is a fun...

I have to say my biggest challenge is holding back my husband from wanting to give his son a new toy every two weeks. He already has a t.v. in his room (he wouldn't if it wasn't for the old 13inch I had back in college--thing still works after 10yrs.) He has a ton of clothes (mostly from his nephews who I think wore the clothes once). He has books and noise makers and toys that clutter my whole house. (some of these are hand-me-downs as well). I look at all these things and then I think back to the days when I was a kid and my best amusement was the hobby horse, the barn with the horses (my grandfather had work horses and this was an immitation barn with real hay), and my grandmother's old pots and pans. We made forts and rolled down hills. I think he's too spoiled already and he's not even 2.

The one thing we do expect is good behavior. Yes, the boy knows how to play, but part of that is playing with them and letting them know when its ok to play and when its time to be quiet. When we go to restraunts, shopping, public places, he is well behaved. I love hearing the compliments on how good he is.

[me b zola]

97. I raised my son to have manners---here's my story

When me and my 15 year old moved to Oregon I knew no one here. I was working around the clock just to pay the bills. One day I received a phone call from one of my son's friend's mother. She said, "Anthony is the favorite of all of my daughters friends,he is always so polite and curtious. Well, last night when he came to my daughter's bedroom window and they snuck out after we went to bed, he trampled the flower bed that I had just planted."

:wtf: What the hell could I say at that point? So I said, "I'll send Anthony right over to replant your flower beds, I'm so sorry."



I don't even know why I have shared this with you. I believe in being polite and treating people with kindness, and teaching my child to do the same. I guess it just isn't always enough. Eek. I have three grandchildren now...and they too are free spirits.

[NuttyFluffers]

98. *sigh* "Red State Parents" is shorthand for Red State of Mind

i thought everyone got the memo from Janeanne Garofalo. :P apparently people can't put down a good flame.

other than that tiresome inanity, this has been a fun topic to read. and i am in quite solid agreement with the original poster. i'd go a bit further -- because i'm currently misanthropic -- that hellspawn need better mental conditioning from their cruel overlords (and/or guardians).
}( :smoke:

[Catherine Vincent]

107. Rudeness is everywhere.

And you're right, it does start with the parents. But then grown people are rude. On the park and ride I take, you see some people enter the bus and walk down the aisle and bump people and continue walking and don't bother saying "sorry about that" or "excuse me". I see it all the time.

[Ian David]

109. You've obviously never been to Chuck E Cheese

Chuck E Cheese is a parent's worst nightmare come to life.

It's like that island in Pinocchio where the children turn into donkeys.

I made the mistake of being talked into stopping at a Chuck E Cheese on the way home during a long trip. The idea was it would give my daughter time to blow-off steam and wear herself out, while I would get a chance to decompress.

Mostly, I was just in the mood to blow stuff up-- thank gawd for video games.

And this one little brat literally shoved me out of the way to get to a game in front of my after I'd patiently waited five minutes for my turn on the machine.

Yes, I know that I was an adult at a place meant to cater to the needs of children, but after hours of some of the worst driving of my life-- and I really wanted to blow stuff up-- I verbally unloaded on the kid (about seven years old) with what I thought was admirable restraint. (Yes, I kept it clean, too).

I don't remember what I said, but his jaw dropped, he said he was sorry, and he walked with his head down to the far end of the room, and avoided me until I left half an hour later.

I'm proud to say that I've taught my own daughter the importance of sharing, waiting her turn, and playing nicely. She's four years old.

One time, we were at a children's museum, and some little boy (about six) was taking plastic lobsters away from her. She told him, "You're not playing nicely. I don't want to be your friend!" Then she told me that the boy was being mean to her, so I said she should avoid him and play someplace else.

Shortly after she went to play elsewhere, that same little boy tormented her again, so she told him, "You're not playing nicely! I don't want to play with you."

And then again, this time right in front of me, at another spot, the same little boy was taking toys out of her hands and shoving her aside. So, she says to me, "Daddy, this boy won't play nicely and he keeps bothering me!"

Of course, there was no grown-up in sight monitoring the little boy.

I told her, "So, hit him."

They both stopped to look at me. The little boy looked like a deer in the headlights.

"So, hit him. It's okay. If he won't stop bothering you, go ahead and hit him."

I don't think the boy ever heard a grown-up tell their kid to hit another kid. I think I sent him into shock.

"Just hit him right in the face until he cries, if he won't leave you alone."

The little boy handed her all his plastic lobsters and became her best friend for the rest of the day.

I don't know what possessed me to say, "So, hit him."

I still regret telling her that. It raised a lot of questions that she asked me later, because it contradicted much of what my wife and I had taught her about proper behavior.

Later, I told her that she did the right thing by using her words, avoiding him, and then telling a grown-up. That's what I always told her to do.

I'm glad she didn't hit him.

I don't know what I would have done if she'd actually hit the boy, but I'm glad she knew better than to just do it. Even with my permission, she seemed to know it was wrong.

But, it had the desired effect on the little boy-- the idea that his cruelty could have negative consequences gave him the incentive he needed to behave.

Perhaps that boy was Bush's base-- the 25% of the population that needs to fear punishment in order to behave properly.

[Arugula Latte]

110. We try hard to instill manners.

It's funny, though, that the differences in our children's personalities means that one child has internalized this stuff to a great degree and the other one needs reminder after reminder. ("Please watch where you're walking in a crowded place," "Remember to say thank you," etc. etc.)

[tenshi816]

112. My kids have always said please and thank you,

because we've always said it to them. They've been shown respect in their own lives so they see it as natural to treat other people that way.

[bobbolink]

113. I can't "assure" you as long as you believe it has to do with "Red" states

This is the thing that particularly frightens me -- this constant putting everything "bad" onto the shoulders of the conservatives, and especially, labeling it "red states"!!

I've seen plenty of liberals commit the very same offenses that you decry, and the sooner we admit that we're also in the same mess, the sooner we can own it and talk about ways to make our society more civil.

Putting it all "out there" is not only futile, it's dangerous!

[deaniac21]

114. Obviously, this is what the bush misadministration has done

to Virginia.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

115. This behavior is not just limited to VA. See this article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14136994/

No brats allowed!
Is American society increasingly intolerant of tots?

<snip>

Is it true? Are children these days allowed to run amok like never before? Has public etiquette gone to hell in a hand basket or — er — a Dora The Explorer backpack? Or is society simply becoming more intolerant of little tikes?

Etiquette maven Cindy Post Senning argues it's the latter. “Almost every generation will try to say that the current generation is worse than ever,” says Senning, director of the Emily Post Institute, an organization founded in 1946 by our nation’s first grand dame of good manners, Emily Post, Senning’s great-grandmother. "I don’t think children are any worse than they’ve ever been.”

Besides, kids aren't the only ones misbehaving, says Wasmund. "I see more adults behaving badly in public than children,” she says, noting they leave messes around the tables at bookstores, they speak too loudly on their cell phones and they’re more likely than children to be pushy and rude.

Christy Bell, a Vero Beach, Fla., mom, parenting instructor and former restaurant owner, says she's seen her share of misbehaved adults. "When I owned a sub shop, I had parents curse at me while I was taking their order, and then turn around and yell at their children for poor behavior,” she says. “Maybe we have to look at what adults, all adults, are modeling for children.”

<snip>

[deaniac21]

116. Obviously, this is what the bush misadministration has done

to America.

[newportdadde]

117. Have you experienced what I call "The Butler"?

This isn't rudeness from kids but from adults. Nothing like walking through a door reaching out to not let it swing into someones face behind you to have them just waltz through not touching the door at all and not saying thank you. I gets even better if there is another set of doors as they stand and promptly await your service again or if someone was behind them and get to eat the door as they just walk through it. Ah... "The Butler".

As an aside we had a guy get shot over manners here a bout a year ago in KC. He held the door open for a guy coming out of the store as he went in, the guy didn't say anything... "The reverse Butler" and the man holding the door said "Hey your welcome!" and went inside. The rude man went and got a gun and then promptly shot the man who held the door in the leg when he came back out.

There are a lot of rude people everywhere, our culture is more rude, red/blue all of it.