Malcom X once asked: what do you call a black man who earns a PH.D.?

[CatWoman]

Answer: NIGGER. That's what some will always call him.

Case in point:

Servants' Quarters

Posted by James Wolcott
Conservative New York radio talkshow hothead Bob Grant once said on the air that then-New York mayor David Dinkins (a far more elegant dresser than Grant, by the way) reminded him of a "men's room attendant".

On Imus in the Morning, Imus or one of his crew once joked about the pre-Washington Week in Review Gwen Ifill: "Speaking of reporter Gwen Ifill, he's said, 'Isn't the Times wonderful? It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House.'"

A week ago, Mickey Kaus's arm candy wrote, "Congresswoman Maxine Waters had parachuted into Connecticut earlier in the week to campaign against Lieberman because he once expressed reservations about affirmative action, without which she would not have a job that didn't involve wearing a paper hat."

And now the cover of the latest Weekly Standard brings us Al Sharpton as a Driving Miss Daisy faithful retainer "who dares not look his master in the eye."

Washroom attendant. Cleaning lady. Cafeteria worker. Chauffeur.

Notice a pattern?

No matter what height of prominence a black person reaches, conservatives will always find a way to reduce him or her to low-paid, low-status, low-skilled caricatured servitude. That's their idea of cutting black personalities down to size and putting them in their place. Whatever uniform they wear, it's still a monkey suit in the eyes and mouths of the white-makes-right contingent, which should make it no surprise that Senator George Allen, adopted son of the Confederacy, would reach back for a race-baiting jibe as his beanball pitch. It's also no surprise that George Allen would be Fred Barnes's kinda guy.

"here's a rich seam of serious thought running underneath the good cheer. Mr. Allen has more thoroughly (and productively) contemplated an array of issues--education, immigration, judicial philosophy, Iraq, Iran, even abortion--than one first supposes. You're fooled by the way he talks, never rushing his words, and by his inelegant presence (he's the only Virginian I know who wears cowboy boots). It's a kind of George W. Bush effect, style overpowering substance. Soon enough, though, substance steps forward."

Fred Barnes wouldn't know a "rich seam of thought" from a river of raw sewage, but let it pass. At the end of his love-letter lunch with Allen, he relays what the mission statement of an Allen presidential campaign would be: "securing our freedom, making sure this is a land of opportunity for all people, and making sure that we preserve our foundational values." I'm going to assume going forward that "foundational values" is one of those conservative code phrases intended to connote the noble white pillars of the old Southern plantation.

http://jameswolcott.com/archives/2006/08/servants_quarte.php

[MrPrax]

1. Wolcott hits a bull's eye...

and superb context for a headline...

Thank You, Cat Woman...one of the best, always

:yourock:

[sgxnk]

8. exactly

kind of like when certain people refer to condi rice et al (another african american with a Phd) as "house negroes"

same disgusting racism. different method

imo

leftist and rightwingers both belittle blacks with status

in different ways

but neither is any less disgusting

i protested the "house negro" stuff before, but apparently that's "ok" to some people

it's not

it is demeaning and racist imo. just like the stuff in this article

double standards: it's what's for dinner

[CatWoman]

14. there's a HUGE difference

between Blacks owning up to and telling the truth about their turncoats, and white racists demeaning the entire race.

See H20 man's post below.

[sgxnk]

20. bull

you just excuse racism (imo) and twist it around into "blacks owning up to and telling the truth" lol

so, racial slurs are the "truth" when they suit your ideology? again, amazing.

racism is racism, whether it is black on black, white on black, white on white, or whatEver

i don't excuse any of it

"house negro" is a racial slur

you continually choose to ignore that. so, i guess we'll have to disagree

but i find it incredibly hypocritical to excuse (and even PROMOTE) some racial slurs and disparage others

"house negro" is belittling a high status african american with a phd via a racial slur

it's the EXACT same thing, but your cognitive dissonance is too thick to see that

so be it

[CatWoman]

21. if you say so

I'm not about to argue with you.

You don't fucking know me.

Let's just say we agree to disagree.

[sgxnk]

22. it';s nice to see

you can stick to civil discussion instead of using swear words. (sarcasm)

i am not asking you to "argue with" me

i am merely pointing out blatant hypocrisy, double standards and that you accept SOME racial slurs since they suit your ideology

so be it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Are you being purposefully obtuse?

White racists call black PhD's "niggers" because they don't like the color of their skin.

Catwoman, on the other hand, is judging Condaleeza Rice based upon the content of her character.

[sgxnk]

25. lol

u are being purposefully obtuse

are u frigging serious?

some people are justifying racial slurs agaisnt black women of status (who happen to be conservatives) and then saying its about their character.

then impugn their character. duh!

there is no need to use a racial slur

hth

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. Rice's character deserves to be impugned.

You'd rather she just call her a "house?"

[sgxnk]

32. it's a racial slur

it's that simple

using it is wrong, because of that fact

either you operate under a STANDARD or a double standard. i choose the former

if you want the latter, feel free

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

No, it ain't.

It's directly related to her character, not her race.

Now if you want to explain to me how Catwoman is a racist for using it, feel free. I'd especially like for you to explain how she's both racist and black. That's a doozy.

If your operational STANDARD means sticking your foot in your mouth, no thanks.

[sgxnk]

38. it is directly related to her RACE

unless you can call a white or hispanic a "house negro", then house negro is a racial slur related to RACE

because it *is* specific to race

qed

hth

your cognitive dissoance is amazing. go ahead, and excuse racial slurs. it suits you well (Rolls eyes)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. Hmm. No it's not.

It's directed at her working for the blatantly racist Bush administration. And doing things like shopping for shoes while thousands of Americans, mostly African Americans, drown in New Orleans.

If she were white she'd just be a racist. As we discussed, a African American being racist against African American doesn't make a whole lot of sense- she's a self-loathing black. Or to put it in the African American Vernacular- a "house negro." I guess "Uncle Tom" would do too, but that implies the masculine.

Sgxnk, the only cognitive dissonance I'm seeing in this thread is you using your argument over and over again even though it's so clearly wrong.

:shrug:

[CatWoman]

66. you see I gave up on him/her much earlier

I don't need anyone to tell me how I feel about scum.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Hey, don't dis scum.

Scum plays an important role in the ecosystem. We'd all be wading through shoulder high waste if it wasn't for scum.

Speaking of shoulder high waste, he seems to have taken a powder.

[goclark]

71. Go Catwoman! Speak!

[Horse with no Name]

142. Personally I am surprised that one is still here

Every thread I see has a flamefest that surrounds them.
:hug:

[WillyT]

98. So... I Guess Calling Condi "Auntie Thomasina" Is Against Your Rules ???

:shrug:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DocSavage]

114. Whew

Sure am glad to know that I can now make racist remarks based on character and know that there is no problem.

White racists are idiots, that is there excuse, are you saying that if you can discern the character of people it is OK to be racist or disrespectfull to them? Thinking like that will set race relations back 100 years.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

151. Maybe you don't understand.

Judging people based upon the color of their skin is racism. Basing people based upon the content of their character is not.

This isn't rocket science, folks.

[DocSavage]

158. Thats my point

If I feel that the character of someone is not up to what I feel it should be, does that mean I can demean them racially? Does it mean that I can use the N word on say OJ, (I believe that many feel he is of questionable character)?

Hell, on this board if someone gets their feelings hurt, they hit the alert button, the offending post may be deleted and the person may be tomb stoned. Yet here are people saying that it is OK to sling racial epitaphs at people because they do not measure up. I am sure that no one on this board will take offense to derogatory speech concerning Cynthia McKinney from the right, because in their mind, her character is questionable. I mean, it seems only right considering what I have read concerning Ms. Rice.

If people feel that it is OK to use speech in that manner, then it has to be OK for the other side to do it too. I personally do not feel that it is appropriate nor necessary when discussing people or thier character. When intellectual debate decends to that depth, the person speaking that way has lost all credibilty.

Sometimes it is rocket science!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

161. Is the term "self-hating jew" anti-semitic?

Because "house negro" is the equivalent of "self-hating jew."

"house negro" is in no way, shape, or form similar to the slur n*****. And a lot of people seem to have trouble, or are pretending to have trouble getting thta through their haeds.

[DocSavage]

162. The absolute

amazing thing is that you continue to defend this. Would referring to a gay man as a pantywaist be the same as house negro? In my opinion, and I guess from your reply a lot of others too, house negro is annalagus to the slur. I am sure that if Bill Frist used house negro in a statement about Congressman Ford, you would defend him right? I mean you seem to think that it is no big deal. And do not even bring up character, I am sure that some people somewhere feel that Congressman Ford's character is in question.

FYI, I am not pretending to have trouble wrapping my brain around your logic, I really am having trouble.

And for future reference, is Aunt Jimima an OK reference for a black woman?

How about oreo, or cracker?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. LOL.

Rice is a worthless piece of shit and deserves every criticism she's been handed.

It doesn't matter how many obsolete PhDs she has.

And this has nothing to do with the other. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

[TankLV]

26. Just join up, rack up a thousand posts in a month, and proceed to lecture

us on racism - coming from a white guy!

Nice!

Enjoy your hopefully short stay here...

Maybe you'll put down the stars and bars garbage and actually LEARN something...

[CatWoman]

29. *cue dueling banjos*

:rofl:

[TankLV]

36. It used to be "fun" toying with them, but as they become more transparent,

it's only extremely annoying...

I so enjoy your posts, and admire your patience with these fools.

Too bad we didn't live close by to be neighbors.

[uppityperson]

101. I don't need an

"ignore button", but do roll my eyes and skip on past some posters postings without even reading. Every now and then I find myself reading one and thinking "wtf" and then notice who it is. Gets anoying indeed.

[CottonBear]

51. LOL!

:hi:
I can't wait to see you on Saturday so we can discuss this in person! (Check the meet up thread.)

[CatWoman]

61. gotcha

:hi:

[mntleo2]

40. Racism Is White

Prejudice can be of any color. There is a difference between racism and prejudice.

The reason why racism is white is because we white folks enjoy a society that is geared toward the success of white people. We are punished less, have greater access to a better education, get jobs with livable wages easier, and have more leeway as to where we can comfortably live.

A person of color can be prejudiced against other people of color, but they cannot be racist because they do not "enjoy" the privilege of a society that is racist in nature, which America is.

I know that is hard for many white people to take because we do not experience it(some white women who are poor have more experience with prejudice than other whites, but even they cannot come close to any person of color as to the racism they've experienced), but it is true and the sooner we accept this fact, the sooner we can work on true equality for all, IMO.

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

[AspenRose]

54. That is a fantastic post

I think 'white privilege' is a very uncomfortable topic for whites in general.

[Spider Jerusalem]

73. That's a completely idiotic statement.

Racism is not 'white'. Anyone of any race can be a racist. Racism is a particular form of prejudice based upon perceived 'racial' difference; some of the Nation of Islam's central beliefs (whites are evil, etc) are just as racist as those of the KKK. What you're saying is a total absurdity; you fail to distinguish between individual racism and institutionalised prejudice and privilege.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. Seems to me...

that's exactly the distinguishment mntleo2 was making.

As for the Nation of Islam being as racist as the KKK, I'm going to have to quote Ozzie Davis:

"They will say that he is of hate— a fanatic, a racist—who can only bring evil to the cause for which you struggle! And we will answer and say to them:

Did you ever talk to Brother Malcolm? Did you ever touch him or have him smile at you? Did you ever really listen to him? Did he ever do a mean thing? Was he ever himself associated with violence or any public disturbance? For if you did, you would know him. And if you knew him, you would know why we must honor him: Malcolm was our manhood, our living, black manhood! "

[Spider Jerusalem]

77. I'm not talking about Malcolm.

I have a very great deal of respect for Malcolm, actually. But he also disavowed the Nation of Islam (which you SHOULD know if you know anything about him at all). And as such, Malcolm has nothing at all to do with my larger point about racism in the Nation of Islam; in point of fact, he REINFORCES IT, because he says in his autobiography of his hajj to Mecca 'here were men with blond hair and blue eyes who called me "brother"', and he speaks of it as a transformative experience that led him to recocognise the brotherhood of all men, regardless of skin coulour, and to break with the Nation of Islam because of their racist ideology.

So, what was your point, again?

[roguevalley]

107. It struck me that Malcolm was reaching a greater truth about

rascism and black/white issues after the hajj than before. It is a damned shame he was killed. Between Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, things might have been a lot different in this country than now.

[Bucky]

76. Racism requires power. W/O power, you're just an opinionated a-hole.

Individual racism sounds like individual closed mindedness to me, until you have an individual with the power to make his or her opinions stick into somebody else's business. If an institution or social struction hold prejudiced slants, that means it's doing something or hurting someone. That's when it's racism.

I don't think racism has to be white, per se. But you have to admit that we're more effective at it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

81. Actually, racism doesn't 'require power'.

Institutionalisation of prejudice and discrimination require power, and they're things that follow from cultural racism, but racism in and of itself does not require power, only ideology. The ideology of racism plus the power to put it into practice on a large scale leads to things like the Jim Crow South, or apartheid South Africa....but the ideology can exist independent of the ability to make it a social reality.

[H2O Man]

100. Correct.

You are right about that. A little example can be found where Malcolm went to college -- in our prison system. There are gangs that are involved in "power" conflicts in the bowels of the prisons, many of whom are not white, hold no institutional power per say, and who target other non-white inmates. When people say that only whites can be racist, it is evidence of a shortcut to logical thinking.

[mntleo2]

103. Perhaps I should Say Then ...

...AMERICAN racism is white.

While you take part of the definition of racism as prejudice being the main one, institutionalized racism comes out of the first definition ~ in other words, the two definitions are intertwined, you cannot have institutionalized racism without prejudice. This definition is taken from Webster's definition of racism:

rac·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-A-s-i-zm)
n.

n 1: the prejudice that members of one race are intrinsically superior to members of other races
2: discriminatory or abusive behavior toward members of another race

Therefore, our society, which is based on racist practices that favor white people while discriminating against people of color, is white racism. A person of color who is prejudiced and who lives within this society is *not* being racist because the whole society is racist against them. Put another way; a person of color being prejudiced against another person (whether of color or not) cannot be racist then because he/she exists within a white racist society and is discriminated and abused as are ALL people of color, which puts people of color outside of that society. You cannot be racist unless you are truly a part of the institution that favors your race, otherwise that "racist" institution keeps you outside of its privilege. See?



Not so "idiotic", Dear.

I rest my case

Cat In Seattle :evilgrin:

[Spider Jerusalem]

105. Wrong;

Whatever character racism in America may have, America is not the only country on earth where racism exists, therefore it is at best narrowly parochial and at worst blindly ignorant to frame a definition of 'racism' in strictly American terms. For instance, there's a notable current of historical and even modern racism in Japan and China, often directed at foreigners in general, even other Asians (cf. Japanese attitudes towards Koreans, Chinese attitudes towards Tibetans, etc).

A racist is someone who harbours prejudice based on racial perception, and African-Americans and Hispanics are just as capable of being racist as whites. Are you going to honestly try to tell me that, say, a Nation of Islam minister who says 'Hitler should've killed all the Jews' ISN'T expressing a racist viewpoint? That's a patent absurdity. Can you sincerely say that DOESN'T constitute 'abusive and discriminatory behaviour'? Individuals are just as capable of such behaviour as institutions.


And our society is NOT 'based on racist practices'; no more or less than any OTHER society, at least (cf. Britain's history of colonialism in India, Africa, and Oceania; France's history of colonialism in Africa and the Pacific; Belgium's rape of the Congo, Japanese actions in Manchuria, German policy towards the Herero in Southwest Africa, et cetera). Certainly still affected by centuries of prejudice enshrined as official policy, and by inertia and indifference on the part of the ethnic majority population; but it's absurd to argue that racism forms the absolute basis of our society.

I stand by my opinion that your definition of racism is so much fatuous nonsense.

[roguevalley]

108. hating someone for things that are irelevent to their character or

qualities as a person, imposing a viewpoint on someone based on physical or ethnic features that don't mean a damn to anyone else is racism to me. Anyone can be racist if they hate someone with illogical venom based on such factors. Consider the striations in Indian society, the hatred of untouchables. Consider how people hate Jews. Racism is a poison of the soul that ANYONE can have and isn't factored in my opinion about whether I have power or not. Blacks hating whites, whites hating blacks. Its racism. It hurts the object of the hatred equally. Poor whites don't have power but many are racist. Some blacks see academic achievement by other blacks are becoming Uncle Tom. Idiotic hatred and thinking is wrong no matter what your skin color is. SOmeone is always hurt by it. It is a cancer in our country. We have to excise it or die.

[NuttyFluffers]

135. every sociology book, professor, etc. i've encountered says your wrong.

yours, according to all my humanities and social science authorities, is a simplistic, layman's version of understanding racism, not a true technical understanding as it now stands. in fact, it is a mere vernacular usage, outdated and out-of-use among professionals in the fields that study people. sort of like the misuse of the term 'myth' to truly mean 'falsehood' instead when discussing high level societal precepts. or for a recent example wiccan priests and adherents incorrectly using the term "witches," when in a professional religious anthropological discussion the usage of such term is patently wrong and could get you possibly killed. you are using a layman's vernacular which is out of context of the professional meaning. nothing wrong with it in general, sort of like saying "cool, man..." and other slang, but in serious discussions terminology must be standardized.

an effective -ism, in any form that it can appear, is completely dependent upon an issue of "rights" granted by a society. this means "right" broken down into: power, priviledge, immunity, and capacity. so, taking your asian analogy, Japanese can be incredibly racist -- but only in Japan. once they come to America they are helpless to implement their "racism" (or properly termed, "bigotry") because they do not have that "right" guaranteed by the new societal matrix they are currently suspended in.

second, since we live in a globalized world (and really have been for centuries, i.e. the various ages in colonization, it just took longer to communicate), whole generalities can be created by the aggregation of states, powers, religions, etc. into broad terms; such as Western, Eastern, Latin, Middle Eastern, Muslim World, Christian World, sub-Saharan Africa, etc. in this context we have seen a Western European stranglehold on global political power for the past few centuries. with the UN and its subsidiary agencies currently within a veritable stranglehold by Western powers, and more specifically Western European powers and its most socially akin bretheren (if not, one could consider, outright spawn), most notably in the existence of the G8 comprised of UK, Italy, France, Germany, USA, and Canada, (Russia, and Japan being the odd ones out, and even then Russia still could plea "whites privilege" and be "let in" -- though behind closed doors of course), you can see how one could say even now the global context of power and its distribution (aka, the global political matrix, with its inherent capacity to confer "rights" on a global scale) is tilted heavily in the favor of the blurb "racism is white." but that's a simplification that doesn't always do the complexities justice, just like misunderstandings involved by vernacular usage.

otherwise, good show, good show! i always enjoy your posts, even when we disagree. i still need to finish Transmetropolitan sadly, and the series is already over. i am a lame comic book reader, not a true devotee.
:(

[Spider Jerusalem]

150. The point I'm trying to make here...

is that racist attitudes can and do exist independent of social realities; from the perspective of sociology, such attitudes on the part of a minority population may be based upon reactionism to the discriminatory nature of the society they find themselves in, but that makes them no less real, and whatever the underlying cause such attitudes only perpetuate ethnic strife (because the polarisation they engender can persist even in the face of social shifts that render the underlying causes no longer relevant). These attitudes have, historically, led to subtle gradations of prejudice; a sort of hierarchy of racism, if you will, in which members of groups that are discriminated against can and have discriminated against OTHERS on the basis of both wider social attitudes and individual prejudice (the nature of the social relationship between Asian-Americans, African-Americans and Hispanics has been quite complex and very much coloured by prejudice of this sort, I think you can agree--quite separate from the relationship of all three groups to Anglo-Saxon/European-Americans).

[NuttyFluffers]

163. naturally, i understand your point.

though, when we speak of -isms of any sort (and the -ists that take advantage of such injustice) we must always remember that it must be inextricably linked to society. humans cannot really be taken out of the context of the society it has been/currently is/will be suspended in. essentially, your use of the term "racist attitudes," being use for the idea of an individual's attitude toward others separate from the context of society, could be easily shortened, and be more accurately labeled, bigotry, or prejudice, or discrimination. more accurately the adjective "racial" (i.e. racial bigotry) would be added to such simplified terms -- though humans being what they are, things are often incorrectly simplified into the linguistic shorthand of "racist/ism."

your "heirarchy of racism" is quite on the mark. though, when discussing minority groups in general we don't normally use such terminology. we discuss in terms of a broad society, generally a sizable state or cultural region, hence racist/ism is reserved for the dominant in society. but in the microcosmic scale, say BET television, or Little Saigon, yes, one could apply the term, though making sure the audience understands the caveat. bigotry of any sort really isn't going to progress human societies forward in the long-term (though some not-so-nice people really dig the short-term benefits).

no, you pretty much know your stuff, it was just rather amusing watching people, who in all essential points agree, disagree on basically terminology usage. it's an easy trap we all get into. we use language, but we often forget that at some point, when we relax too easily in its everyday shorthand, language starts using us. just chimed in before things were going to cause unnecessary hurt.
:hi:

[roguevalley]

106. Given the arguments going on here, how can you classify/explain

the distinction that some blacks have about the depth of color: Lighter skinned somehow is preferred or
'better' than darker? I find that whole thing- which I didn't know about before Spike Lee's films- to be fascinating.

[philosophie_en_rose]

119. You're right. Racism is about power. nt.

:bounce:

[T Town Jake]

152. Wrong.

(n/t)

[Freedom_Aflaim]

122. anybody can be racist

saying that being black gives you carteblanche to be prejudiced is rather insulting.

In fact, I think that attitude is racist is and of itself.

[Irreverend IX]

164. I assume your definition is limited to the US.

If you want to see non-white racism, visit any Asian country.

[philosophie_en_rose]

118. Um... Context is everything.

For the simplistic, racism equates to name-calling. So, if George Jefferson calls his neighbor a honky, it somehow means all white people suffered the equivalent of 400+ years of enslavement, legalized and codified racism, disproportionately underfunded schools and opportunities, and numerous other horrific group experiences.

Somehow, it is apparently not okay for anyone to have a sense of humor about pain or oppression (see Chappelle, Pryor) or to discuss whether some others seek to continue oppression, degradation, and lack of opportunities (see Condoleeza Rice, D'nesh Disouza, Michelle Malkin).

Racism is racism, if you define racism as name calling. But even the worse personal biases mean nothing compared to systematic racism that continue to affect minorities in this country.

"Racism is racism" is just another way of saying that there is no racism - that there is no oppression of minority groups and that people with privilege or that actively oppress others somehow are just as oppressed.

Bull shit.

[Spider Jerusalem]

134. So are you going to try to argue...

that racism is a purely white phenomenon? It's not (see my previous response in post 81).

Or that there weren't white people who suffered 'horrific group experiences'? That's both ridiculous and profoundly ignorant; PLENTY of 'white' people were members of historically opressed minorities who endured centuries of legalised and codified discrimination--what about the children of German and Polish and Russian serfs who emigrated to the US in the 1800's, many of whom were the first generation in their family to not be bound to the land? What about Irish Catholics, oppressed for centuries by the English, sold into slavery by Cromwell, dispossessed and starved by the stupid policies of an indifferent government? What about eastern European Jews, made to live in ghettos and shtetls and hunted in pogroms? Not only did all of these people endure centuries of discrimination and prejudice (and worse) in Europe, they usually faced generations more once they came to America.



On edit: I don't really agree with the post you're responding to, either; placing this response here was accidental.

[Brewman_Jax]

136. Please cite your source

of how those oppressed Europeans so severely suffered codified discrimination in North America and continue to do so to the present day. I couldn't find any.

[Spider Jerusalem]

148. That wasn't my point.

My point is that an argument that only whites can be racist and only blacks have suffered from discrimination is nothing more than extremely simpleminded historical reductionism. And discrimination need not be codified to be oppressive; I'd suggest that you read up on the history of the nativist movement, anti-Catholicism, and the Know-Nothing party in the mid-1800's if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[Brewman_Jax]

156. Acknowledging the point

but to put the experiences of the European immigrants on the same level as the oppression of blacks and Indians (which continues to the present) is also gross oversimplification and moral relativism.

[Spider Jerusalem]

157. It's also morally relativistic...

to somehow try to argue that a Jewish synagogue being defaced with swastikas is somehow less racist than a cross being burnt in front of a black church, or that a Latino beaten by a gang of thugs for having a white girlfriend is somehow less a victim of racism than an African-American who experiences the same thing.

Personally, I fail to see how saying that opression is an evil wherever it occurs and whomever it is directed against can qualify as 'moral relativism'. That is my position; I'm just pointing out that more than one group has historically suffered such oppression, that more than one group continues to do so, and that discriminatory and racially motivated acts need not have the sanction of law to qualify as 'oppressive'.

[T Town Jake]

154. Third rate Marxian theory poorly expressed is still horseshit...

...regardless of how you slice it.

[joe_sixpack]

75. How do you determine a turncoat?

It would be hard for any white dude to declare someone a traitor to the caucasian race without sounding ridiculous, so I've always been curious how you determine when someone is a traitor to the black race. Is there a guidebook one reads? Could I get that book anywhere? Or are the criteria passed down by word of mouth from generation to generation?

I mean I get the obvious ones, being conservative or voting or working for Republicans etc. But what about other areas besides those political, how about music for instance. If a black person listens to Molly Hatchet or Burt Bacharach, are they considered traitors? What about clothing? Will wearing LL Bean or Nautica qualify as traitorous? If a brother were to use the phrase "you rock dude!" or "you da man!" I would definitely think that would qualify.

I often wondered too about areas of interest like hunting or hockey, if it's cool for a black person to have an interest in those. Has Tiger Woods made it okay to like Golf? This is truly an interesting concept to explore.

[Brewman_Jax]

83. No, it isn't interesting

why don't you worry about helping to dismantle an unfair racially-based social caste system so that every individual can be held to account for themselves.

[joe_sixpack]

84. Perhaps you could tell me what you're doing,

then when I see an example of a racially based social caste system, I'll know what actions to take.

[Brewman_Jax]

86. Example

an incompetent white male is president of the US. Here's an article by Tim Wise on that very topic at http://www.lipmagazine.org/~timwise/WhiteWhine.html He has many more. You might learn something.

[joe_sixpack]

88. Thank you

here's an interesting one as well. http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/index.html

[itzamirakul]

139. That "Black people love us" web site IS VERY PROVOCATIVE...

and interesting....

Thanks for posting it..........

[itzamirakul]

137. That Tim Wise article is outstanding! Thanks for sharing...nt

[JuniperLea]

33. No need to bring race into it

There are plenty of VALID reasons to slam Condi...

[oasis]

57. Why do you think clueless, dumbass Condi got the job in the first place?

:shrug:

[sutz12]

62. Actually, she's pretty up on the Soviet Union

She got the job because our "leadership" is still living in the past.

[JuniperLea]

69. I honestly have no clue

Are you inferring she is a "token"?

That wouldn't surprise me given this administration's penchant for stupidity and evil. But if you'll notice, it wasn't the first thing that came to my mind. I abhor the mere thought. I'm sick to death of skin color. I'd like to outlaw the mention. We will never get past our own stupidity in that regard unless we get rid of all mention.

[Selatius]

90. That's not the way to go.

As an Asian American minority, I would say the reason racism in America still exists today is precisely because the problem is buried and isn't talked about, that the benefit of doubt is given in more cases than can be justified given the history of bigotry in America. It is no longer in-your-face riot police with dogs and water hoses and Jim Crow. The fact that people won't talk about it isn't going to defeat racism.

The "token Black person" argument that people would bring up with Condoleeza Rice exists because soon after Jim Crow was struck down, many organizations including those in Hollywood adjusted by only adding a person of color to shield from claims of racism if they were not directly mandated by law to add people of color, but changing window dressing does not change the underlying prejudices people may hold.

You can make a racist do a lot of things using the law, including employing people of color, but it's impossible to legislate away hate. You have to do a lot more than simply pass laws against it and simply not talk about it. You have to introduce new ideas on living in fellowship with other people.

If there is a question over Rice being hired with respect to skin color, then it is best that the question is put out there for all to see and for all to discuss to put to rest the question once and for all because the public light of scrutiny is a more powerful agent against bigotry than darkness will ever be.

[roguevalley]

109. Condi Rice showed her heartless cruelty by allowing the war to

go on for a month for reasons that only Satan could stand. A principled person would have quit. She allowed people on both sides to die and be impoverished forever for money, to test run Iran, because she is a weak, soulless swine.

Brown people were dying in Lebanon and they are dying in Afghanistan and Iraq. Brown, black and white people drowned in the Gulf region while she was buying shoes and goofing around. I don't think she identifies herself with a color. She is too soulless to have empathy with anyone but herself.

[MrPrax]

37. I don't understand...

There is a world of difference between someone using the class divisions of the plantation as a metaphor for the relationship of Powell or Rice to power ('tokenism'?) and the remarks of Republican Allen about a fellow American?

You don't see a difference?

[EstimatedProphet]

44. Oh, to be a mod again...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

143. That post made me all warm and fuzzy inside.

Thanks Prophet. :thumbsup:

[T Town Jake]

153. And an excellent decision by the Admins to prohibit that it was...

(n/t)

[KingFlorez]

80. Oh, please

Condoleezza Rice gets called what she is called because it is the truth, it's not a racial slur and it's not racist.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

102. bull shit. not the same at all

Rice is refered to like that because she enables the administration to keep everyone else down.

We have the same attitude towards her that the fieldhands had against the house slaves, when they got all uppity and thought they were better than.

She enables the evil, that's why she deserves that label.

[fishwax]

113. what a crock

"House negro," is a label based on an individual's treatment of the issues and conditions facing an underrepresented and oppressed race.

The examples in the op are based solely on race.

The purpose of the first is to assess those who are willing to pursue self interest at the explicit expense of their brethren as short sighted and self-absorbed

The purpose of the second is to devaluate both an individual (the black person with the Ph.D.) and a race.

The difference between the two is clear.

[GeorgeGist]

117. It sounds to me...

that you're OK with blacks (like Condi and Colin) being a disgrace to their race.

[Tulum_Moon]

121. agree

It is used here to demean certain people of color. Why are black people expected to think one whole thought? There are some very intelligent african americans in this country who make a huge differ enc. I for one will never call any of the oreos or house Negro's.

[Quantess]

165. Condi Rice is the house negro.

Contempt for the B*sh administration trumps being P.C.
Especially when a Black woman like C. Rice gets that label from Cat Woman, who is a self-professed Black woman, herself. She is entitled to say so. Same as I'm entitled to say Ann Coulter is a bitch (anyone else care to join me?).

The B*sh administration is so abominable, they deserve nothing less than the worst slurs. The B*sh administrations' crimes simply cannot be tolerated any longer. I think you are missing the point, sgxnk.

[wicket]

42. Amen to that!

:kick:

[gratuitous]

2. Fred Barnes is fooled by George Felix Allen

But not in the way he thinks he was fooled. Barnes could be faked out of his jockstrap by a six-month-old baby in a game of peek-a-boo.

[Bucky]

78. I'm gonna start a rumor that Barnes plays peekaboo in his jockstrap

okay, that was wrong

[JuniperLea]

3. Note the "X" at the end of my name...

In tribute to Malcom X.

I hate condescension in every form. Always have, always will.

People who hold themselves above other human beings, for whatever reason, are the lowest scum, the tiniest saprovore, the most minute shit-eating actinomycetes on the planet.

[Kutjara]

4. The problem is even wider.

My first job after college was in an investment bank in New York City. Ten of us joined at the same time and were immediately sent on a training program that was a trainride away in New York State. Every morning we'd meet for breakfast in the City, then take the train to the town the training center was in. Every evening, we'd reverse the journey and then have a couple of drinks together at Grand Central before heading home. We were all thrusting young executives, dressed in the best suits our inflated salaries could buy. The world was our playground and we had an overwhelming sense of entitlement. We were, in short, assholes.

One of us, however, happened to be black (I'll call him Mike, because that was his name). One evening, we all dashed for a train that was about to depart. Most of us boarded the train about halfway along its length. Mike had stopped to buy a paper and was a bit behind us, so he hopped on the last car, just as the train was pulling out of the station. The train trundled into NYC, and now the last car was the first one, closest to the platform exit. Our group walked along the platform toward the exit, where we noticed Mike standing, with a look like thunder on his face. We thought he'd been in an argument or been mugged. It turned out that he'd simply been standing by the platform exit, in his $900 Armani suit, and people had handed their tickets to him. They thought he was a ticket collector. Black guy with a tie, must be a porter or something.

I thought it might just be that harrassed commuters would hand their tickets to anyone who stood in the right place near the exit but, when I repeated the experiment myself, nobody handed me a ticket.

The assumptions we make based on race run very deep.

[bobbolink]

10. Thank you for sharing that story! What a study!

You know, it would be a good documentary to film things like this!

I can tell you from experience, being white and poor brings with it the same kinds of discrimination and ugly assumptions, but there is no "support group" to go to.

[roguevalley]

110. this story kicks my ass. I will NEVER understand that kind of

presumption. Never.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. Good Find, Cat

Interesting article.
The Professor

[Brewman_Jax]

6. So true

and :kick:

I'll have to read the article when I get home--damn firewall! :(

[H2O Man]

7. Page 290

of the Autobiography:

"One particular university's 'token-integrated' black Ph.D. associate professor I will never forget; he got me so mad I couldn't see straight. As badly as our 22 millions of educationally deprived black people need the help of any brains he has, there he was looking like some fly in the buttermilk among white 'colleagues' -- and he was trying to eat me up! He was ranting about what a 'divisive demagogue' and what a 'reverse racist' I was. I was racking my head, to spear that fool; finally, I held up my hand, and he stopped. 'Do you know what white racists call black Ph.D's?' He said something like. 'I believe that I happen not to be aware of that' -- you know, one of those ultra-proper-talking Negroes. And I laid down the word on him, loud: 'Nigger!' "

[CatWoman]

11. Thanks

I recalled that from the book, and it's in Spike Lee's movie as well.

:hi:

[H2O Man]

15. Yep.

The movie has it in the context of Malcolm debating a gray-haired gentleman on a talk show. I assume that it was such a good line, that Minister Malcolm used it more than once.

It sure would be nice to have Malcolm around these days. Catwoman, my friend, can you imagine Malcolm debating the likes of Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly? My goodness.

[CatWoman]

16. LOL

Hannity would spontaneously combust :rofl:

such a delicious picture in my head :rofl:

[Catherine Vincent]

45. I remember that section of his book.

When I first read that, I had to put the book down and envision that awesome piece in my mind.

[H2O Man]

115. The Autobiography ....

Carl Sagan called The Autobiography of Malcolm X the most important American book.

[Coexist]

123. Wow.

[Skidmore]

9. And wasn't I hearing on Washington Journal this morning that black people

have been flocking to the Republican party this past year?

[EFerrari]

12. And it cuts both ways. It denigrates achievement WHILE also

denigrating workers. Boy, these @ssholes sure are efficient.

[nam78_two]

130. yeah that always strikes me

The sneery attitude towards people making an honest living infuriates me...

"Oh those working class people"..ugh

Coming from not very bright, over-privileged brats mostly -these are people that get ahead mostly purely through an accident of birth or by screwing other people over ....ugh...

[Philosoraptor]

13. One would NEVER refer to Colin or Condi that way!

Those two fine examples of how high a black citizen can rise on master george's plantation.

[Karenina]

17. What do you call a cardiologist in Georgia?

(Hint: This is a trick question).

[CatWoman]

18. can you update me?

I recall reading something somewhere about an asshole cardiologist in GA....

[AspenRose]

52. "N*****"

They were referring to a black cardiologist IIRC

[Karenina]

60. YUP! Jes' anudda nigra

That IS how it IS. My baby sis has been in the bidness of saving vets' lives for decades. The abuse she endures is beyond belief. She shores herself up with the feedback from those who recognize her efforts on their behalf. I've been encouraging her to retire but she is adamant, "WHO will really CARE for them if I leave? NO ONE." :cry:

[IronLionZion]

55. ...

A DOCTOR you dumb yankee bigot!!! :silly:

I'm a yankee from Pennsylvania.

[AspenRose]

56. Bwahahahaha

:D :thumbsup:

[Philosoraptor]

19. What do you call a white rich punk who failed every day of his life?

President

[Swamp Rat]

67. pretzeldent

[Catherine Vincent]

27. And you notice they only name call Dems with those type of names.

I guess they are more compassionate toward folks like Powell, Rice and Keyes. Republicans will never get my vote (I should put that in my sig line).

[TrueFunkSoldier]

31. Malcolm was right!

I'm one of those "Ph.D. Niggers," and can attest to the fact that many whites will never see or treat us as equal, no matter the educational background, class or occupational status. Trust me on that...

[FrenchieCat]

30. Sad but true....no matter how high up Black folks climb......

it ain't ever high enough to get away from the racism directed at them solely due to the color of their skin!

Many White folks still feel the need to find themselves superior to somebody; reality aside.

Condi and Colin and justice Thomas seem to have forgotten that bit of wisdom! But even they'll be reminded of it one of these days (if they haven't already!)

[LynneSin]

34. I don't like living in a country like that

I want a country where we are all equal, which will never happen under the Bush Administration or Republican Control

[FrenchieCat]

48. Well , I don't fool myself to think that other administrations will

be able to solve the problem totally (and I don't believe that racism is restricted to those who claim the GOP for their party)......although certainly, the Bush admin gets an "F-" from me in racial Relations and sensitivity to the issue of race!

I have always told my young daughters (one who is currently in her 2nd year at Harvard) to always remember....that no matter how high you climb, no matter how much education you have, no matter how accomplished you are, never ever forget that you are Black.....because if you do forget, someone at some point will be sure to remind you.

Sad testimony of the lessons that Black Parents have to impart onto their children while raising them; warn them of what the "real" world looks like and the type of society we truly still live in!

[Jamastiene]

126. That is so sad but true.

I, personally, would like to see a world where we only think about race in terms of the positive, but that utopia, sadly, will never happen. In the meantime, maybe we can just appreciate the friends we have who try not to think in terms of race so much.

[jaysunb]

35. How Dare You Post Things Like This !

Why, it just might cause the scales to fall off some peoples eyes.....
heh heh

:hi:

[CatWoman]

39. ROFL

Well, you know me...........

:hi:

[TrueFunkSoldier]

41. Catwoman, as usual...

...has the right idea. Thanks for this.

[opihimoimoi]

63. Hey, us Ornimentals get the same treatment too...

LOL....

Its the Superiority Complex...they think they be Superior and you're not...

[butterfly77]

43. Remember lieberman said that ..

Lamont wasn't
going along with the mainstream of america because Jesse,Al and maxine helped him to win. I guess blacks are in the mainstream if they are RepubliCONS.

[TankLV]

46. Another outstanding and educational post from you, as usual.

Thanks.

Reminds me of the time a year or so ago, when one of my friends had to have "the talk" with their adolescent daughter on why certain white boys (& girls) would not only not be friends with her, but could be so cruel - and this is supposed to be 21st century Las Vegas!

To say I was shocked into reality is a vast understatement. I remain speechless and dumbfounded and extremely sad to this very moment as if it were all just yesterday.

But growing up in a progressive area of Buffalo, with wonderfully caring and loving parents and relatives, and living most of my adult life in mult-racial/cultural Hawai'i, returning to the mainland is still somewhat of an eye-opener.

[wildeyed]

47. Scared, small people

need to make themselves feel big by making others feel small.

[IndyOp]

49. You can't hold a man down without staying down with him.

Booker T. Washington

I am counting on it.

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Rex]

53. So true, what will some people call the first black president?

Yep, racism not only is alive and well...it FLOURISHES with Bush/Cheney/Rove in charge. Goes along with the fear/hate motif.

[LWolf]

58. This makes my stomach hurt.

Do those of us who don't boost our self-esteem by hating everyone else make any difference at all, or are we just blowin' in the wind?

How many times do we have to fight the same battles, learn the same lessons, before we finally evolve enough to no longer produce this toxic shit?

[ecstatic]

59. At the risk of getting flamed, some liberals are guilty of this as well

"No matter what height of prominence a black person reaches, conservatives will always find a way to reduce him or her to low-paid, low-status, low-skilled caricatured servitude"

What about the constant references to Condi being GWB's piece of @$!$! on the side? As a Black woman I notice this type of thing coming from all sides, unfortunately. Of course, most of it comes from conservatives, but our side still has some work to do.

[goclark]

72. I am African American and I don't suggest

that Condi and Bush have anything going on the side.

They are both way too evil and mean spirited to be passionate about sex.

IMO, she is just his cover for his other "activities" that do not involve woman at all.

There are those Liberals that argue that Condi could never be President because she is Black.

I disagree, RepubliCONS don't really see her as African American, they see her as a powerful woman that can possibly win for their greedy souls. She may be the color they don't like but she has an oil tanker named for her and that spells MONEY and POWER.


This is what I think of her however ~ :puke:
And all the other NeoCons, including Clarence Thomas :puke:

[roguevalley]

111. She seems somehow, goclark, in her own mind to be outside of

color. She seems to be his emotional nursemaid, someone who strikes a cord in him that this mama's boy never got from anyone else. Odd, sick relationship, these two. I see people like her and feel the loss of what they could accomplish. Too bad.

[goclark]

120. I agree

And that is why so many of my people dislike her so much.

She had a golden opportunity,that we rarely receive, to make a difference in the world, and she selected GREED instead of helping those that truly needed her.

Not just helping African Americans but helping those that are not in CORPORATE American Greed Box.

So sad.

We are very disappointed and angry.

[Pacifist Patriot]

116. I have to agree with you.

I have heard liberals say things about Condi that are most definitely racist. In fact, in a conversation that referenced both Condi and Karen Hughes, Condi was demeaned out of proportion to Karen and in ways that made it clear it was because of her skin tone.

I don't think progressives engage in this nearly to the degree of conservatives, but I agree. There are some deeply ingrained biases that need to be excised. Acknowledging their presence, however uncomfortable that makes us, is the only way to start.

[leveymg]

65. Jim Wolcott's turning out to be the next Gore Vidal.

Every inch an equal of Niall Ferguson.

[KoKo]

70. Clarence Thomas? How many other "Sell Outs" for the "Brass Ankle Cuffs?

How many of the Bush Bots and Media "Commentators" sold out for another "Brass ankle ring" while the "SOUTHERN SLAVERS and the BUSH BOT NEW ENGLANDERS...SAY....GOOD MAN! GOOD WOMAN! YOU SEE the "PROMISE OF AMERICA!" in your "eventual freedom...your eventual freedom that took Martin Luther King to bring to fruition!

How fast "some were" to see their "freedoms" as George Bush's view of FREEDOM! Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Claude Allen, Vernon Jordon and then there's the "suckers on" who Talk the Talk but NOT THE WALK.

Let's do a catalog of African-American Sellouts and then list the C-Span Call In's of African-Americans who support BUSH. I've heard more Pro-Bush than Con-Bush...in these calls.

Let's talk about how African-Americans have seen the Dem Party SELL THEM OUT during and AFTER CLINTON where the young Blacks gave up on Dems and went to the BUSH REPUGS to make their mark and MONEY for the FUTURE.

The old "CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT FOR MEN AND WOMEN's RIGHT HAS DIED."

THERE's NOTHING more to be done with it.

WE are ON OUR OWN and FIGHTING FOR "Patches of TURF!" Patches of TURF...:puke:

[KingFlorez]

79. I just heard that a couple of days ago

When I watched the Malcolm X biopic. He could not have put that more perfectly.

[Elidor]

82. Who is Mickey Kaus' arm candy?

Why couldn't he just name the person?

[itzamirakul]

140. Ann Coulter???????? nt

[KoKo]

85. Glad to see you "waking up" Cat.......

:thumbsup:

[k_jerome]

87. CatWoman, do you really think...

that racism would be so widespread if it was only "conservatives" engaging it it?

[CatWoman]

91. no

I'm not that naive.

However, I must say that racism is much more prevalent among Conservatives.

Just look at them. Look at their hatred.

Remember all the slurs against the French? "Freedom Fries"? How fucking absurb. and stupid.

And what's this about "teaching the ragheads a lesson"? You hear or read that on Liberal boards?

I was having a conversation with a friend. We were talking about another site I post on, which is open to both conservatives and liberals.

A couple weeks ago, a story came out touting how great the economy was.

I responded that I saw no evidence of a strong economy, especially with the astronomical number of people without health care and the reports of people having to pawn their belongings in order to buy gast to get to work.

I was immediately bombarded with jack ass responses from conservatives, telling me how good they had it and calling me delusional.

My friend commented that they are just about them, and have to project hate towards people who don't have it as good as them. Liberals want everyone to do better and have a slice of the pie.

A history professor once told hatred was essential in order for people to perform atrocities on one another.

However, I am not deluded into thinking that liberals can't be racist too, and have the tendency to act as such.

Liberals do try to see the other side, however. Conservatives are just much better at hating and demonizing.

[k_jerome]

92. agreed. however,...

I look at the widespread discrimination in our country today, in all parts of the country, red and blue and see the same problems. Lack of equality in education, justice, you name it. I believe it is institutional and accepted by the majority on all sides of the political spectrum. A bi-partisan issue if you will.

[CatWoman]

94. I'll go out on a limb, and assume you are Jewish?

Your people and mine have suffered so much from discrimination.

However, you can blend in better.

Color doesn't target or identify you.

In my lifetime, I will never see people looking beyond color.

Nor will I ever see people of color quitting the practice of teaming up with the most disgusting lumps of flesh, embracing self hatred and carrying out their dirty work.

[k_jerome]

95. No, not jewish...

however, I am the product of an interracial marriage and remember well the bigotry my mother faced in from many including fathers side of the family. The same bigotry I still see today everywhere.

I do agree that I can blend in better, but I have witnessed first hand the discrimination you speak of.

And I agree with you wholeheartedly re. the "teaming up".

I am reminded of some dialogue from Die Hard 3 by Zeus (Samuel Jackson). A little harsh, but I have always liked it:

Zeus
And who's the good guys?

Dexter's friend
We're the good guys.

Zeus
Who's gonna help you?

Dexter
Nobody.

Zeus
So who's gonna help you?

Dexter's friend
We're gonna help ourselves.

Zeus
And who do we not want to help us?

Both
White people.

Zeus
That's right.

[roguevalley]

112. Conservatives seem to have to be against something. They have

to have a demon some place to help them cope and, IMO, to allow them to live with the unconscionable behaviors they have to allow out of themselves. Call them on it and the indignation is too big for it not to be spot on.

[BlooInBloo]

133. Our side is full of the racism-enablers...

... the ones who will fight for any logically conceivable explanation before acknowledging something as racism. The ones who run around jabbering "it's not about race, it's about class". The ones who don't accept anything as clearly racist unless the word "nigger" is involved. They decry racism as an abstract concept, but somehow they always manage to end up on the other side in every *specific* instance.

Folks of that sort, a large number of whom are on our side (and on DU in particular) enable the out-and-out racists, who are largely on the other side.

[fishwax]

144. and how!

Big echo to everything that you said. :thumbsup:

[rndmprsn]

89. K+R

[Jade Fox]

93. Yeah, I read that today on Wolcott's blog......

It's amazing how deeply rooted the racial stereotypes are in many of these supposedly aware white people. When they are not thinking, their true beliefs pop out. You see how rigid their imagination is, and you want to slug those who claim that racial discrimination doesn't happen anymore.

And once again may I say: James Wolcott skewers them like no one else. My kind of guy. :)

[David Zephyr]

96. CatWoman, you rock.

Great post and thread. You are one of the DU's best. :thumbsup:

[CatWoman]

97. David

you don't know how much that means to me

thanks. :hi:

[David Zephyr]

99. I forgot to K&R!

:hi:

[DocSavage]

124. Cat has set the tone

Now, we are able to call arab Muslim extremest terrorists anything that we want because of their character. Never mind race baiting african americans, social services stealing mexicans, drunk micks, lazy spics, rednecks, wops, guinies, could go on and on

Just to think that after 50 years on this earth and being taught that racism and discrimination was wrong to find out that is is OK as long as you are just talking about one person and you do not agree with their character. Just one question, is it ok to speak to anyone in this tone, or if someone posts something about someone you like, is that wrong. Just want to know the ground rules.

[Octafish]

104. No matter the names called: None of them is a "Warmonger."

Dinkens, Ifill, Waters, Sharpton are good people.

OTOH, look who the conservatives must defend by smearing others:

DIM, DRUNK WARMONGER

[femrap]

125. There are times when I wish this nation

could be divided....let the South be the racist idiots. All who agree with them can move there and leave us the hell alone. They're small-minded, self-righteous, and willfully ignorant. Let them have there own damn country...and take that damn 700 Club with them. Thump your bibles elsewhere...they can start their own ameritaliban.

[Jamastiene]

127. I wish it could be that simple, but

not all of us who live in the south really want to live here. It's very hard to explain how the cost of living here may be cheaper, but so are the wages we can earn here. Those of us who want to move out must take years of planning and saving to ever be able to afford that luxury. I am currently in the process of doing that as I type this.

You idea isn't all bad, but don't assume all of us here in the south want to be racist republican voting rednecks. We are not all like that. And don't forget that many black people live in the south as well. Just food for thought.

[femrap]

131. I was thinking about the friends that I have living in

the South...and I know that everyone isn't a willfully ignorant repuke. Hell, we have tons of these rapture-ready fundies up North who follow this authoritarian regime as if it were Jesus personified. They've taken over the pug party so if you are not reborn, you are NOT running on the pug ticket.

It's quite a mess. I fear for us if we don't get subpoena power in this next election. I don't like fascism one bit.

edited cuz I left out an important word...mind is faster than fingers.

[Jamastiene]

132. A North/South trade would be fair enough.

I'd love to be able to form some kind of domestic exchange program. Send a RW fundy south and send me north. Somebody would have to teach me to drive in the snow though. I haven't a clue how to deal with that stuff.

I agree. The fascism has to go. That whole notion of "wish us or against us" is so beyond fascist.

[femrap]

145. Snow isn't the problem to drive in usually....

it's the ice! I just stay home when it's that bad....but, hey, with global warming, the winters haven't been too bad lately.

Hope you get to move to a nice blue state someday....and maybe after this year's election, we will have something to celebrate. And maybe some of these fundies will start to see that they've elected a wolf in sheep's clothing...isn't there something about that in the Bible? False prophets and all?

[Jamastiene]

159. I can see where you are coming from

on both of those points.

When it does snow here, the daytime temperatures melt some of the snow. At night it freezes back leaving a blanket of snow on top of a layer of ice. Driving on it at that point is impossible. That is why we close the schools and just about everything else here then.

I still haven't figured out why people run to the grocery stores and buy all the bread and milk when the weatherman says there is snow coming though. We do not have lateral (underground) electrical supply lines, so we usually lose power from snapping pine trees. That milk isn't going to stay fresh for long with no power and anything in the fridge is untrustworthy after a few hours. :shrug:

Yes, the Bible does mention false prophets. I'm no expert, but I do remember something in there about the false prophets who twist every commandment to mean the opposite. I see this current bunch in office now started with the most important commandment Jesus gave, the 11th (Do unto others...)

[femrap]

160. I love the pictures of your cats....

I'm off to hear Sherrod Brown and other Dems speak on their bus tour around Ohio....I also want to tell them to make sure that our rep that is attending the DNC meeting this weekend in Chicago is supporting Ned Lamont.

I can handle fighting the pugs...but my patience is gone when I have to fight the Dems as well. Grrr.

Have a good weekend...maybe George will fall while riding his bicycle, the helmut won't help and he will fall into a deep coma! What a cheerful thought! lol

[itzamirakul]

141. Before you start dividing the nation in half, better start thinking in

financial and economic terms. Where would the Corporate Lobby decide to move Wall Street and its financial dealings? Oil is in Texas...Gulf Coast industries, states where food is grown...We would still have to deal with each other.......

But...I do understand where you are coming from...:toast:

[nam78_two]

128. ROFL

Thanks for the genuine laugh....

"It's a kind of George W. Bush effect, style overpowering substance. Soon enough, though, substance steps forward."



Oh dear....substance steps forward...:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Fred Barnes is a riot...pity he doesn't realise what a comic he is....

[BlooInBloo]

129. Ah - didn't realize it was Malcolm who made that up... I had heard it...

... where the subject was "a black doctor in the South". Same punchline, naturally.

Good thing it's not about race, it's about class, otherwise there'd be reason to get upset at all of this.

[Sabriel]

138. A professor at the UW always tells this anecdote:

She's checking out at a grocery store (west side of Madison, very progressive and fairly well-to-do), putting away her wallet after paying for the groceries, when the woman behind her asks her for "plastic, and please don't put the fruit in with the canned food, like you did last time I was here."

What was it that made the woman think my professor was the bagger? Was it my professor's casual business attire? Her Coach handbag? The keys to the Volvo she was holding?

Her point is that even in 2004, a black woman in a progressive-thinking area, standing at the bagging area of a grocery line, will STILL be seen as a bagger, despite all other outward indicators to the contrary.

Author Noel Ignatiev calls for white people to be "race traitors," to deny themselves white privilege whenever possible and to call other white people on it when they see it.

Whites have the power, so it's up to us to do something about the inequity.

[Karenina]

149. An aquaintance

while waiting for a cab in front of a five-star, decked aou and perfectly appointed, as always, was handed key with an admonishment not to dent it. He HEAVED the keys into heavy traffic, then retreated to his awaiting conveyance.

Nah, some white people are so BLIND it's breathtaking and ESPECIALLY NO FUN being on the receiving end of their inability to see ANYTHING but the color of your face. With impunity they will ignorantly belittle, humiliate insult and question authenticity. I've had NO CHOICE in this life but to cope with it, one would think I'd be used to it, NO I DON'T WANT TO BE USED TO IT. IT SUCKS THE RAW ROOT.

[malaise]

146. Great read - nice thread n/t

[Marr]

147. That's actually a very insightful point.

I'd never thought about it, but that *is* in fact how the right almost always attacks minorities- particularly blacks. They immediatley suggest that the person in question should be working in some low-wage position of servitude.

It says a hell of alot about them.

[ismnotwasm]

155. Great post

Especially with all the "debate" I've been reading about what constitutes a "racist" statement. I live in a fairly liberal city, so I'm spared listening to much of it, and I call bullshit when I do hear it. But go one county over, and it's every racial slur anybody every used. Without thought. Like it's okey dokey to judge people on basis of race. Like the sixties and beyond never happened. And since these areas are mostly white, it's white racism. Not hard to do the math.

I don't like playing games about who is judging people by the color of their skin.
Racism-- especially WHITE racism, is fairly easy to identify and this latest trend to pretend it's not what it is disgusts me.

Racism is not only alive and well, but thriving. And it will continue to do so as long as people feed it.