I am really disappointed DU.

[Texasgal]

For those of you who dismiss the Jon' Benet arrest.

She was child who was sexually assaulted and murdered.

Where is your humanity DU?

Her own Mother died being a suspect, how fucked up is that?

C'mon guys...

[skids]

1. Don't. Care.

nonstory.

[Texasgal]

2. How nice that you don't care that

a child was murdered....

How sad.

[ComerPerro]

3. Children have been murdered SINCE she was, and no one cares

[Texasgal]

6. Maybe YOU don't

But I do!

We can sit around posting threads all day long about the innocent Iraqi/Lebanese children killed for no reason...why not this one?

[roguevalley]

123. everyone cares or should. we give a lot of lip service to things,

values that we say make us different and better than the other side. caring about dead children, whether Palestinian or Lebanese or America should matter. If you don't like her parents or the frenzy that enveloped them by our lame news media made, that is totally different. I am very, very, very sorry for her and this family.

[QuestionAll...]

10. there are so many new and fresh dead...

to cry about.
not to sound hard hearted toward JonBenet, but there are so many new dead children....

[Texasgal]

14. Can we not think about ALL of them?

Do we not see threads DAILY about innocent children killed?

[QuestionAll...]

26. yes, let's talk about All of them, on a name basis.

How many dead Lebanese children's names do you know?
Will any of them ever have the exposure that JB has - will we be talking about these unnamed children in 10 years from now - obsessively.

I grieve from them all and cannot place JBs tradegy any higher than others - altho that is what the media is expecting of me.

[Texasgal]

39. So the MSM reports a story with a name

and we blame Jon Benet because she is product of America's MSM?

Jesus, she was a CHILD that was viciously murdered!

[QuestionAll...]

67. where do you see anyone blaming JB?

yes, she was visciously murdered, and that's terrible. how many times can that be said till you are satisfied?

I don't think I can continue this with you because you are somehow accusing me of something I am not guilty of.

[Texasgal]

72. I am accusing you?

Of what?

Never mind.

I am loving the defensive nature of this thread.

[QuestionAll...]

89. you may not be the right voice for JB.

you tend to piss people off more than come to any understandings or agreements.

goodbye. have your angerfest without me.

[Texasgal]

94. You need to get some thicker skin

if you plan on hanging out at DU.

[greyl]

160. You might consider reducing the number of straw arguments

you throw out there.

The nefarious purpose of a straw argument is to get your opponent to defend themselves against something they never said.

Now that you've attacked people with strawmen, you're accusing them of being defensive. That's hilarious.

edit: spllng

[Deja Q]

15. One child in a nation that eats its own.

I don't know why, but I find it easier to grieve for many than I do for one.

I know people who think she's better off. How sad is that? (and before you ask, I am not one of those people.)

[Texasgal]

23. Why am I not suprised by your comment?

You think Jon Benet is better off dead?

Jesus.

[ComerPerro]

32. what next? you gonna chastise us for supporting stem cell research?

and maybe attack us for being pro-choice?

That's what you're sounding like.

[Texasgal]

41. Don't hijack this thread please...

Jesus fucking christ.

[ComerPerro]

53. Take your self-righteous BS somewhere else, that's all I ask

[Texasgal]

58. Oh, so I am self-righteous now?

For asking about why posters have no compassion for a little girl that was murdered?

I'll stick around buddy...I am not going anywhere... thank you every much.

[ComerPerro]

63. Yeah, real corageous of you. Sticking up for a girl who everyone

everywhere is sticking up for.

What will your next bold statement be? Hitler was bad?

C'mon.

If you want to jump on this bandwagon, fine.

But don't have the audacity to scold others who don't get so easily led as you obviously do.

[Texasgal]

Jesus christ...

And I wonder why they call us moonbats...

Hitler reference?

Good god.

Okay, you don't agree with me. Fine. Thats your conscience, not mine.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Texasgal]

83. Ummm...I haven;t forgotten what has gone on..

I am still well aware of the injustice in Iraq and lebanon.

I think you are taking this way to seriously.

Calm down, it's just a message board.

[ComerPerro]

86. Hey, if that's your trip, whatever

just watch who you pass judgement on

[Texasgal]

90. Likewise buddy

thanks for the tip.

[BushOut06]

104. Go back and read your initial post

You are the one who posted a thread attacking DU members for not caring enough about the JB story.

[Texasgal]

107. I think people are reacting because they

have something to "react" about.

2 words: thick skin.

[BushOut06]

112. Your OP was flamebait

You made a post slamming people on DU for not caring as much as you do about this case, for not jumping all over the media hysteria bandwagon. What did you expect to happen?

[Texasgal]

117. Participate or alert

you have two options.

[roguevalley]

127. her case for me, is political because she was made the center of a

business that sells cars and soap, the media. she didn't deserve to die, her family didn't deserve their drubbing. feeling compassion for a dead seven year old doesn't take much humanity. it interests me who can say that a dead child, this one in America and ten years dead, is less sad than someone in Lebanon dead yesterday. both are dead. both are mourned. they are equal to me. Neither invited their death. Doesn't matter the politics, or lack thereof of their particular situation.

[Libby2]

I care and hopefully they caught the right SOB

and saved more children in the process.

[OwnedByFerrets]

5. Is it a story......................

yes, it is important to the affected persons. Is it worth all this damn coverage? NO NO NO NO NO
There are children being killed by american bombs and bullets every week and the MSM should be covering those murders.....and not OVER covering a 10 yr old case. My Opinion.

[Texasgal]

11. Do you think Jon Benet ASKED for this coverage?

She couldn't....because she was murdered.

[Extend a Hand]

64. the press that smeared that family

SHOULD report this as news and make a formal and widely known apology to the family.
that being said...Coporate media probably beat the story to death (as a distraction) and never apologize to the family. The scum.

[Fleshdancer]

152. I second that concept n/t

[Dorian Gray]

157. Totally agree...

since so many people believed that the family was guilty, it's good to let the public know that the real culprit has been arrested and is being charged with murder.

Once that information is out there, then that's good enough. I don't relish hours and hours in the next few weeks of daily news coverage to be dedicated to this story.

[Wonk]

4. Do you know how many innocent children were killed in Darfur just today?

Oh, but they're not rich and white :/

[Texasgal]

8. Don't make me out to be a stupid clod

of course I know of innocent Children being killed.

We should care about them ALL.

[Bluebear]

52. Absolutely, Texasgal

It's like white children don't suffer too, all of a sudden.

[Texasgal]

54. Must you make this a black and white issue?

She was murdered and sexually assalted. She was a CHILD.

Are you not glad that they may have caught her perpetator?

[Bluebear]

73. Hello, I was agreeing with you.

The parent thread here said

"Oh, but they're not rich and white :/"

[Texasgal]

81. Sorry..

Thank you. :hi:

I am getting my ass flamed here... :(

[saracat]

154. May I ask how you know they caught her perpetrator?

Last I heard people were innocent until proven guity. Was there a trial and a verdict that I missed?

[noamnety]

7. My humanity's fine, thanks

I just don't think, given the treatment of veterans, given the treatment of Lebanese and Palestinians, given the outrageous numbers of women who are raped EVERY YEAR which is ignored by the media, or the treatment of Iraqis or of the folks in Guantanamo, or of immigrants, or of Darfur ... etc, etc, that this amount of media attention to one ten year old case is anything other than crass sensationalism.

[helderheid]

9. There is not enough justice for the world's young victims.

[derby378]

22. Amen to that

It's very hard to elaborate on such a sentiment, except that a lump just rose in my throat.

[TahitiNut]

12. An expectation is nothing but premeditated resentment.

C'est la vie. :shrug:

[derby378]

13. I do not dismiss the arrest, but we have bigger fish to fry

I feel so badly for John and Patsy Ramsey, whom I first suspected in JonBenet's death. And then, when the evidence stopped adding up, it all seemed so confusing and futile, like someone was getting away with murder.

But we are still on a mission. Over 2,500 of our best and brightest gave their lives in Iraq because their Commander-in-Chief lied to them about the reasons for going into Iraq. Our mission is to make the rest of Bush's days in the White House a virtual Hell. And the first step is by making sure Democrats take back Congress. If the media ditches the political race just to rehash the JonBenet story over and over and over and over again, our candidates may not get the fair shake they deserve.

[Texasgal]

19. Ofcourse we have bigger things to think about

but can we not comment on this story that just broke?

[derby378]

27. To withhold comment on this would be inhuman

We should talk about it, sure. A lot of us are flooded with all sorts of emotions surrounding the brutal murder and the subsequent investigation. If John Mark Karr is indeed responsible for killing JonBenet, he must pay, and pay dearly.

[Texasgal]

42. Thats what I don't get...

people are dismissing the story.... makes no sense.

[roguevalley]

130. its the hype, texasgal. this child is so sad, just like all the other

children EVERYWHERE of all colors and persuasions that die because adults are dicks. Poor little girl.

[MethuenProgressive]

16. Sorry, but...

...just another one of those "pretty rich white girl" stories that the MSM becomes obsessed with. How many little black or brown children were murdered, molested, or went missing in that area at that time were there who never got their names mentioned once in the national media? How many of those cases got ten years of police interest?
Sorry she died. Glad someone has been arrested. I just wish more children got ten years of police work dedicated to their cases, too.

[susanna]

80. That struck a chord with me...

In the last two weeks in Detroit, a little girl, about 6-7 or so, was brutally murdered. She disappeared about two weeks ago. Her body was found extensively burned, with little remaining evidence, a few miles away. Her family held prayer vigils nightly while she was missing. It was only DNA that gave them the answer they never wanted to hear. My heart hurt for them through the entire ordeal. Yet, surprisingly, nothing showed up on the major news outlets about this particular case that I saw.

In a nutshell, I believe it is important for everyone to understand that this type of horror goes on all the time - everywhere - regardless of the victim's social standing or race.

I guess I have just become immune to the main stream media's "highlighting" one vicious and ugly murder over another; so I have tuned them out in general about such things. I am in no way dismissing Jon Benet's murder, but I do ask why ALL murdered children do not get their day in court (which seems to be the media these days). And no, Jon Benet was not responsible for her case becoming a media frenzy; but I think the media needs to re-think what they cover and HOW they cover it, truly. If they became more equal in their coverage, I might begin to listen again. I don't know. It's been a long time and I am pretty jaded. I hate that, by the way.

My .02; feel free to disregard.

P.S. If this guy they arrested did kill Jon Benet? May he burn. Somewhere. Anywhere.

[magellan]

17. I care

It doesn't matter to me that she was a "poor little rich white girl". She was viciously murdered and deserves justice as much as any other child. It isn't Jon-Benet's fault which lost/murdered child stories the media decides to follow. She was the victim.

And if they've managed to find her killer, I'm glad to know it.

[cynatnite]

18. I don't think DU has a humanity problem...

They don't believe this tragic story merits so much attention. It's not that they don't care, they do. They don't see this story as being more important than others such as Lebanon, Iraq or others which have a more direct impact on the rest of the world.

I'm inclined to agree with them, too.

[sleipnir]

38. Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

This is precisely the exact sentiment that most share here on this site.

We don't come here to discuss the minutia of small town murder cases involving rich white people who have nothing better to do than spend their money in frivolous and meaningless ways (beauty pageants (which, now tragically ironic, may have led to their daughter's death)) we come to debate more serious issues.

May peace come to their family, but I have moved pass this story and onto a greater appreciation of the horror of the Mass Media.

[Texasgal]

46. See post #2

The poster says " I don't care"

I am seeing alot of this.

[caligirl]

20. In ten years so much has happened to so many with far fewer resources

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/VIDEO_Hezbollah_takes_BBC_into_wasteland_0720.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/earl-ofari-hutchinson/katrina-lessonsone-year_b_26864.html
For one week last September, the unthinkable happened, America's poor suddenly became the rage. The shocking and tormenting sight of thousands of poor blacks fleeing in headlong panic for their lives from Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters jolted the nation and the world. President Bush reeling from the battering he took in the media for his initial comatose response to the Katrina victims scrambled fast and talked tough about assailing poverty.


That said it is sad, just not earth shaking as in Iraq or Beirut or New Orleans.

[Kiouni]

21. I felt bad when i saw

the larry king interview with the ramseys and that detective...I am glad that someone was finaly arrested.

[Critters2]

24. It was a local story

that never would have gotten so much attenion if

a) the 24 hour news channels didn't have to fill their airtime

b)she weren't white

c)she weren't pretty

d) she weren't rich

Several African-American little girls have been killed this year in their homes in Chicago alone. Do you know their names?

[redherring]

25. Minority children are probably dying everyday

Many of them have been murdered and what not. The media never notices them. This is a fact. If you're not blonde, the media doesn't take notice. I totally empathize with the family and what they went through, but this sort of thing happens quite often. I don't understand why this case is so unique.

[caligirl]

28. Guess what? we had a story today in Oakland of a 2 yo black child

whose mom left her at a park with a stranger. They are trying to find her mom. This was on the evening ABC station news.

[Critters2]

34. Call Nancy Grace!!

I'm willing to bet she won't give a rat's ass.

[caligirl]

40. Could someone get her off the air please. Never watch her

:puke:

[BushOut06]

36. Local story - not a national one

I doubt you'll see national coverage for that poor girl you mentioned. The local media usually covers these types of stories, which is as it should be.

[redherring]

37. Exactly what I was about to post. Well said.

[caligirl]

48. right. And if the media did its job we might have some segment dealing

with the kids that need this attention on a national level. Nancy Grace does a disgraceful job in ignoring all but the beautiful kids whose parents have resources, at the expense of those whose lives need the air time.
Still it was a nice moment that our news here airs stories on children at risk, regardless of $$ status and skin color.

[BushOut06]

70. What we need is something like "Americas Most Wanted"

As much as I don't like John Walsh's politics, his show has done a pretty good job of helping to capture dangerous criminals. How about a national TV show similiar to this, but focusing on missing or murdered children? That way, these stories get national attention, but without all the media hype and frenzy.

[BushOut06]

29. This is a story sensationalized by the media - why buy into it?

The media made a huge deal over it because she was a cute white girl from a rich family, and because of the whole beauty pageant angle. If Jon Benet had been some poor black girl from the projects, would we have heard anything about this? Hell, if she had been a white girl from a poor family living in a trailer park, chances are we wouldnt have heard much about it.

It's not that we don't care about the girl herself. Of course we all want to see justice done. What you're seeing here is the complete and utter disgust with the way the media hypes these stories. Every time a pretty young white girl is missing, it becomes national news. Yet we never hear about the less attractive women who disappear, or the young black or Hispanic women who go missing. Children are murdered in this country all the time, and it's a huge tragedy. Hell, it's a tragedy when ANY child is killed, regardless of where and why.

[Kagemusha]

30. How do I know this guy they arrested is guilty?

Because they arrested him? Is that all?

If I believed everyone arrested by police is guilty I'd be one pretty prejudicial guy. I acknowledge there are things I don't know in this world, and one of them is whether this is actually progress in the case or not. If not, my getting riled up about it would be a waste of my time and yours.

[Texasgal]

43. JUst like everyone thought the Ramseys

were guilty. same thing.

[Kagemusha]

I'm sorry, it doesn't obligate me to assume this guy is guilty.

And I never ASSUMED the Ramseys were guilty, speaking personally. Your talking like I ought to, well I just don't buy that I should, sorry.

[BlueJac]

31. Chill!

Not a hot story, that's all.

:toast:

[Texasgal]

60. Never claimed it was.

People here are acting like this is the only f'ing thread to read.

[RagingInMiami]

33. There are so many children that go through the same ordeal

And never get a fraction of the media attention Jon Benet received.

For those of us who dismiss the arrest, we should be proud for not allowing the media to control our emotional strings.

[demnan]

35. You know what? You are right!!

This case was monumental and the judgemental pundent types and Nancy Grace types on tv persecuted this poor family. I can't image the grief and guilt manufactured by a culture in our country that is quick to judge and slow to think! We have to face the fact that our culture is going this way. It's also true that sometimes when you post on DU people are so quick to react that they don't even read what you have posted to think what you are saying. I hate to say this about DU but it happens so often I can't not point it out. So thank you for the courage to say this.

[Texasgal]

56. GOD! THANK YOU!

Someone fucking gets it.

[lonestarnot]

44. Yes but do we have to hear from every aunt, uncle, neighbor,

cousin, past detective, friend, friend of a friend, lawyer, past lawyers, 3 dogs and 5 cats? We'll be hearing about this for months. It's just bullshit and other kids don't count, just the rich repiglican children.

[baldguy]

45. The only reason this is "important"

Is because she was a little blond white girl that came from a wealthy family.

Never mind the hundreds of poor and/or brown children that have been killed since.

[Bluebear]

47. Where is your "humanity"?

She did not ask to be white, blonde or wealthy. She did not ask to be murdered.

The poor brown children that have been killed since suffered no more or less than JonBenet.

[Texasgal]

50. Sorry. she is dead.

and I am glad that they have suspect in BANGKOK that may be preying on those children too!

[caligirl]

55. Is it just the brown kids, or could it also be the poor kids of any

race? Could it be a reflection of societies prejudice against the disinfranchised as well. Do poor asian kids or poor white kids get this amount of air time on any show? The last one I can recall was one here in the bay area, and they ridiculed her 'misfit' parents to death, only to find out it was a pedophile who had also killed a little white girl of lessor status years earlier.

[elehhhhna]

49. How f'ed up is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement WHATSOEVER

for DAYS while the trail grows colder. F'd up is each parent retaining SEPERATE criminal defense counsel BEFORE even giving info to the cops.

[Texasgal]

51. How fucked up was it for the police to

make them suspects for ten fucking years with no physical evidence?

[BushOut06]

78. They were the closest to the scene - of course they're suspects

Anytime someone is killed, the closest relatives are always suspects. If god forbid something happened to my wife, I'd be a suspect.

[Texasgal]

88. 10 years and no physical evidence.

what? are we backing the boulder police now?

[BushOut06]

101. Why shouldn't they have been suspects?

Even without any actual physical evidence, they should have remained suspects until evidence surfaced to suggest otherwise.

Look, history is filled with examples of crimes where police had a primary suspect, but no physical evidence - then years later, evidence surfaces, and they can finally arrest that person. To not suspect the parents in this case would have been wrong.

As far as taking this long to crack the case, that's really not unusual. Hell, many murders never get solved, and there are people who remain suspects indefinitely.

[Texasgal]

106. Never said they shouldn't have...

But i would think....5-10 years later that they may have needed to look elsewhere.

They botched the case form the beginning. The crime scene was a joke.

The police assumed like many people here that because she was a white rich kid the parents had to be involved.

Instead this suspect has been free all of this time to go and prey on other children... according to the reports many children in Thailand.

[BushOut06]

109. Evidentally, they did exactly that

5-10 years later that they may have needed to look elsewhere

Looks like exactly what happened here. The Boulder police dept issued the arrest warrant, the State Dept contacted Thailand, and the guy was arrested. I don't know how much you know about police investigations, but these things don't just happen overnight. You don't know how long they had been investigating this guy. This isn't the sort of thing they're going to make public prematurely, especially given the media attention to the case. I suppose they could have made some announcement a few years ago in order to please YOU, but then they would have tipped off this guy, and he might have never been found.

This isn't an episode of CSI, and these things don't happen overnight. It really can take years to develop a case against someone. Unless you would have preferred they brought him in as soon as they suspected him, with no evidence, then have him acquitted in a trial.

[womanofthehills]

143. Parents should not have been suspects - just on Oberman

Said her head was bashed in and her body was so damaged - something parents usually don't do when they kill their children

[elehhhhna]

82. that rambling ransome note in patsy's writing plu slying about Burke

being awake PLUS NO POLICE INTERVIEWS for daaaaaaaaaaays bothers me. The immediate family is always suspected initially. That's because in most cases the murderer is in the famiy. I would COOPERATE with the investigation.

Just saying.

[Texasgal]

91. initally...sure.

10 years and no physical evidence?

If this person is the person who commited the crime the fuck heads at the boulder police department should be fired!

This man has been accused of sexually abusing Thai kids. He has been FREE to do so for 10 years all while the bouler police has their eyes on the Ramseys.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

57. What am I supposed to do about ??

GO to Thailand and beat the suspect with a rubber noodle?

99.9999999% of the folks on DU had nothing to do with the Benet case

[Texasgal]

61. Uhhh...have a little compassion?

Is it that hard fellow progressive?

[Freedom_Aflaim]

66. I certainly have compassion for the child and her whole family

I guess I just don't understand what action I am supposed to take.

This is not a like political issue where theres votes for be won and opinions to be persuaded.

[Texasgal]

69. Jeez... I am not asking for your left arm...

just some compassion.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

74. I just gave it to you.

wtf else am I supposed to do?

[wellst0nev0ter]

59. Why Do I Have The Feeling

This story will monopolize any troop deaths coming from Eye-Rack.

[Texasgal]

65. Maybe you should check another thread here at DU.

I am sure there will be one, most folks in LBN post the dead count daily.

It;s kept up with here.

[wellst0nev0ter]

162. Yeah, That Lonely Thread

while I see several threads on this decade-old-case of which we now have a new suspect to hang.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

76. Because that...

Is the intended effect.

If we take nothing else away from this sad matter, it is that somehow, we have to regain our faith in Justice and reject the facile and visceral rewards of revenge. Revenge was what the Ramseys were subjected to. Blind, naked and mindlessly vicious revenge and the need to indulge in it.

They were as lynched as any strange fruit that has ever hung from any tree. The only difference is that they had to live on and gaze upon their own hanging reputations and good names, as they twisted slowly, ever slowly in the wind.

[wellst0nev0ter]

159. What's Sad Is That Everyone Was So SURE

O. J. Simpson sure. Still, that was a product of a golden age where this country was so comforted that we had time to focus on TV-movie-made dramas such as this and the stained dress.

[caligirl]

62. Looks like you got your discussion, even if it isn't what you hoped for.

Actually I am glad to see the guy caught if for no other reason than the police who tried to get the parents for it should see the extremely bad judgement and lack of professionalism pervading the original investigation.

On a side note you might like to know that the man they arrested has a bay area connection. It appears in 2001 he lived in Petaluma and was a sub teacher in the school district until the police called them and warned them about the guy. The news is saying his exwife is extremely upset and embarrassed. I'll try to find a link and post it here.


http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=local&id=4468925

A former schoolteacher who worked in the Petaluma School District is now in custody in Thailand in connection with the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.
Related Links

* MORE: Arrest In Ramsey Case
* STATEMENT: Ramsey's Father
* INTERACTIVE: Case Timeline
* ABC7 Video On Demand
* Get Alerts In Your E-Mail
* Get Alerts On Your Desktop
* Talk About This Story

The suspect, John Mark Karr, lived for a time in the North Bay with his wife and three kids.

41-year-old John Karr and his then-wife, Laura, once lived in Petaluma. She told us they were married back in 1989 and lived in Alabama until the year 2000 when they moved to Petaluma.

Karr taught in the Petaluma School District as a substitute schoolteacher from December of 2000 until April of 2001. The district says they had no complaints about him. Karr also spent time as a teacher in Napa during the same period, working to become a full-fledged credentialed teacher.

In April of 2001, Karr was arrested at a school in Napa on five counts of possessing child pornography. He did serve some time in jail, but was released on his own recognizance in October and later failed to show up in court. He is wanted in Sonoma County and a warrant is still out for his arrest for failure to appear on those charges.

His teaching credential in Petaluma was suspended, then revoked for violating the education code.

Laura Karr filed for divorce after her husband was charged in 2001. When he was allowed out of jail, it was with a lot of limitations and restrictions, including supervised visits with his own children and he was not allowed to be around other children. He was ordered to stay off the computer. Investigators say he was using the computer for child pornography.

His ex-wife also says her husband did a lot of research on the JonBenet Ramsey case and also on Petaluma's own Polly Klaas.

Laura Karr also tells us she's devastated and embarrassed by these murder charges, but she does not believe that her husband did it. She says that during Christmas season of 1996 when JonBenet Ramsey was strangled and beaten to death in Colorado, they were living in Alabama at the time and she was with him the entire Christmas season.

We spoke with a former neighbor of his, Sylvia Ross, who described him as "friendly, but divisive." She says that everyone in the neighborhood knew about the child pornography charges, but were afraid to talk openly about them.

Copyright 2006, ABC7/KGO-TV/DT.



Looks like it might not be him, if he knew details that could be found on the internet, and his wife can show he was in Alabama with her then they don't have the right guy. And all the media with their obsessive compulsion will have this guy convicted by 6pm tomorrow.

[Texasgal]

77. Well, we should all be happy that the fucker

has been caught, otherwise he could do this to brown or black children too.

[caligirl]

84. Precisely why the media should NOT publicize this to the extent they do.

This may not be the guy, but we have a tendency to believe they got the guy without the facts. Even Ramsey said to reserve judgement based on his and his wifes personal experience.

[Stephanie]

68. these children died too >

http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/souloftheparty

[Texasgal]

85. I think you shoudl start a thread about that...

May get more hits and comments.

[nosmokes]

71. the story is Police Incompetence. Again. Some more.

hyet we still have a death penalty in this country. we still have a prison system that's hardly better than simply locking people up and letting them fend for themselves, even making jokes about what inevitably happens to the weak when behind bars, which is no different than sentencing them to be tortured by rape. so even an innocent man goes to the joint comes out with a score to settle. why? often because of inept investigators or incompetent or just plain lazy police work. there are thousands of people in prison that are innocent of the crime that got them got them there. it's a national disgrace.

[Texasgal]

79. Yes it is

and i for one cannot believe some of the posts here.

We should be screaming at the top of our lungs that the police botched this investigation, thus allowing a predator to run loose! I wonder how many Thai children he abused? Wonder if that would make a better story here on du...

[caligirl]

87. This guy probably abused plenty, but there is already the first doubt he

killed JonBenet. Getting all wrapped up in the news of this serves no purpose to the extent it finds the killer.

[Texasgal]

92. I though the story said he admitted murdering her.

am I incorrect?

[caligirl]

98. You might be. Do you recall a link for that? The story I have read and

heard so far is a leaked story that he knew somethings about the murder that weren't known publicly. Thats not enough of a story to say he did anything. If he did research it he could be recycling theory he read on line and got 'unlucky'

[Lex]

158. Police: Suspect Denies Link to Ramsey

Police: Suspect Denies Link to Ramsey

By SUTIN WANNABOVORN : Associated Press Writer
Aug 17, 2006 : 1:21 am ET

BANGKOK, Thailand -- An American suspect arrested in connection with the death of 6-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey denied any connection to her murder when he was detained at his downtown Bangkok apartment Wednesday, police said.

http://www.heraldsun.com/firstnews/37-761789.html

[Corgigal]

105. I've never encountered a worst agency in my life

then the Boulder Police Dept. I've had some dealings with a few but as far as understanding the big picture and not running to sell a story to the Globe, nothing beat this agency.

Thankfully the DA's office had GREAT detectives, homicide detectives who knew how to investigate a crime and do the follow through. When Boulder PD had to step back off of the territorial display of evidence, then really cops could work the scene.

Good work Lou.

[Truthiness Inspector]

93. I care.

I don't care for some of the shitty replies, though.

[sproutster]

95. I'm with you. This was a major story, and if in fact this guy is guilty

msnbc is running with a dna match story --

It shows absolute media and politics in motion to destroy a family. I bought it hook, line and sinker.

I am horrified Patsy died before this came to fruition.

[savemefromdumbya]

96. It was sad to see a little one die like that

however, the media have had a preoccupation with the case from the start. Who decides what gets the headlines?

[johnnie]

97. It was sad 10 years ago

And it is sad now. This is a discussion board and people are discussing. I don't think it should be the number one story out there, but it has been something that people have been exposed to for 10 years now.

I still am waiting to see what the story is. I do not think this arrest means her parents are completely not guilty.

[SoCalDem]

99. Just because the rest of the world is "Tabloid Nation",

does not mean that a political website must buckle down and join in on the mediagasm too..

Those of us with kids (and even those who don;t have kids) think it's a horrific thing for a child to be killed...anywhere..anyone's kid.

BUT...

whether a group of cyberpals gets all ga-ga over this saga, does not change the facts of the case..

apparently police work finally was done, and maybe the guilty guy was caught... I hope so..

BUT also,

there are many of us who mightily abhor the sexualization of small girls, and having to watch those gruesome pimped-up "pageant" videos yet again is nauseating...and maybe we all just want Patsy & JB to rest in peace..and for the rest of the family to get on with their lives..

[Texasgal]

100. Well then...

I am sorry for posting my ONE thread about it.

[Blackthorn]

102. Your ONE thread attacked everyone on DU that didn't agree with you.

[Beausoir]

113. You got it...there are MANY of us who abhor the sexualization of children.

Of COURSE we feel badly that she was murdered. Who doesn't? She was a baby and someone murdered her. It's my worst nightmare.

But I am also enraged at what her sick parents did to her before she was killed.

The Patsy Ramsey Fan Club loons are pouring out of the woodwork today.

The woman was sick in the head to subject her child to that kind of perverted contest.

[Texasgal]

119. See post #2 n/t

[Beausoir]

103. I care. I care that a little child was paraded around in sexy costumes

bleached and teased into a bouffant hairdo, contact lenses to change her eye color, enough Maybelline to keep the company in business for years, capped teeth, etc. Ad nauseum.

Enough with the post-mortem attempts to turn her despicable mother into a saint. Patsy Ramsey was a freak who liked to dress her baby girl up as a hooker.

Anyone who would force their child into that kind of sick peep show will not get one second of sympathy from me.

I will wait for some FACTS about this arrest. Jesus....nobody even knows what the guy is being charged with.

When I get enough facts, I will make up my mind.

[Texasgal]

108. I asked for some compassion for the murdered girl

not anyone else.

[QuestionAll...]

122. you demanded it...

and in a most insulting way.

don't go into hostage negotiations or anything of that sort, is my advice.

[Texasgal]

125. Obviously no one has "demaded" much out of you

before.

This is what I said:

For those of you who dismiss the Jon' Benet arrest.

She was child who was sexually assaulted and murdered.

Where is your humanity DU?

Her own Mother died being a suspect, how fucked up is that?

C'mon guys...

Where is the demand?

Again... THICK SKIN is helpful here.

[QuestionAll...]

128. wtf do you know about what has been demanded of me in my life..

my skin is quite thick enough for my needs, thanks.

perhaps you should work on your THICK SKULL.

[Texasgal]

136. You are really losing it here.

I think I have explained myself very rationally and your only defense is saying that I am "demanding" and posting flame bait.

Fine... there is no rationalizing with you.

Participate, alert or just go away. I am done trying to explain myself to you. Your skin seems quite thin, I would be very careful that you don't split a vein or something. Many times people disagree with each other here on DU, in fact it happens all of the time. It's the nature of an internet board.

Just calm down and roll with it... or hop on to another thread. Works for me!

[Horse with no Name]

110. I can't imagine the pain

that Mrs. Ramsey suffered with knowing full well she was a suspect in killing her own child.
The stress of that alone probably accelerated her own death.
May both rest in peace.

[Fleshdancer]

111. THANK YOU Texasgal

In the case of Jon Benet, we have a young female who was brutally victimized and parents who were deemed guilty by the press before all the facts were laid out before a jury. This *should be* a two for one-er by DU standards because I recall many MANY heated discussions regarding the Duke rape story. Remember that? A victimized female? Check. People who were deemed guilty by the press? Check. And yet THIS situation is deemed a "non-story"? Explain this to me.

In Iraq a girl was brutally raped and killed in what should have been the safety of her own home. DUers spent days going back and forth on whether newscasters should refer to her as a girl or not care either way because the brutal victimization of a female is horrific regardless of her age. Not one DUer ever said that this was a "non-story". Well Jon Benet was beaten and strangled in what should have been the safety of her own home too only it occurred here in America. Both situations are worthy of discussion in my opinion.

Terry Shaivo was just one person but having her wishes ignored by Frist wasn't dismissed on DU. Why is that? Should we pretend that the only reason Terry Shaivo was discussed here was because of the special legislation created? Nope. We were actively discussing her well before that political disaster ever happened. Do I need to remind everyone that her husband was also labeled as a killer? He's still in the news but not one DUer has dismissed him as a "non-story".

Our children matter. Don't think for one second that our lack of compassion for them goes unnoticed by them. You can't pretend to fight for a better future while at the same time not giving a shit about the people who literally are the future.

[Texasgal]

115. God how I wish I could nominate ONE post!

PERFECTLY stated!

You hit every nail right on!

Thank you!

I hope everyone reads this post!

[Fleshdancer]

150. Thank you so much Texasgal

and thank you for starting this thread. It needed to be said. :hug:

[BushOut06]

118. Apples and oranges

Girl gets raped by a major university's sports team, and the university tries to cover it up. Racial tensions erupt in that town. Sounds like a news story to me, it's not exactly like that happens all the time.

Girl gets raped by American soldiers in Iraq. This isn't a story simply because she was raped, but because of WHO raped her - American soldiers, who are "supposed" to be helping rebuild Iraq.

As far as Terry Shiavo, that should have never been a news story. The GOP made sure that it was.

[Fleshdancer]

148. I respectfully disagree for the following reasons:

In the Duke case, the discussions on DU were not about it being a college sports team or about a cover up. Thread after thread after thread debated the brutal victimization vs. being considered guilty before proven innocent by the media. I stand by my point that the Jon Benet case had both.

Abeer Qasim Hamza al-Janabi was brutally raped and murdered at the hands of Americans who illegally entered her home for the purpose of brutally murdering her. Jon Benet Ramsey was most likely a victim of just one American who illegally entered her home for the purpose of brutally murdering her. Why should I care what the murder(s) do for a day job?

Terry Shaivo was and should have been a story because her husband was labeled a monster and a murderer because the media allowed it to happen.

Having said that, the point of this entire thread was to say that DU has no reason to dismiss this story. Considering we at DU discuss ad naseam far less important issues makes me wonder why in the world anyone here would ever consider this story not worthy of discussion (which is odd enough for a forum that concentrates on politics and current events). I'm almost afraid to search the archives for the amount of Tom Cruise, Ann Coulter and "look at what this moran on FR said!" threads exist here. I'm honestly very suprised at many of the reactions to this.

[Corgigal]

126. Just one more nugget

On Christmas night. Child was 6 years old and should have had that special holiday that only children can have at that age.

That always personally hurt me.

[Fleshdancer]

131. my daughter is 6 years old right now

If this happened to her, I know for a fact DU would be hurting with me.

I forgot that this happened to Jon Benet on Christmas night. Insult to injury and all that. :(

[caligirl]

133. Awesome words. Thanks for the reminder, its all true!!!

[AlCzervik]

114. If the guy they picked up is indeed the perp then it says a lot

about the system in this country, The Ramsey's are wealthy people who could afford the best legal counsel and they've had a cloud over them since their daughter was killed, the police and the media focused solely on them, can you imagine this happening to a poor family or even middle class? If the Ramsey's are proven innocent then they become yet another cautionary tale.

[RandomKoolzip]

116. You know.....

People can care about and be interested in stories that are non-political. That's not a crime. In fact, I'm a bit of a buff about the Zodiac Killer. I've read alot about the case, I visit zodiackiller.com every day to read their message board, and I'm fascinated by the case. (And no, Bush isn't the Zodiac.)

Some people are JonBenet Ramsey buffs. It happens. I don't think chastising DUers for giving a shit about this case is a productive use of our time.

[RetroLounge]

120. Thanks for the scolding

Is that you mom?

:eyes:

RL

[Texasgal]

121. No...it's not Mom...

It's your concience.

[QuestionAll...]

141. good grief, now you are DU's conscience tester?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RetroLounge]

146. My conscience knows how to spell

and doesn't go around demanding compassion on an anonymous internet discussion board.

but if you think you are accomplishing something, have at it.

RL

[bicentennial_baby]

155. .....

"My conscience knows how to spell"

:rofl:

[K8-EEE]

124. Tabloid "News" Sickens Me - Why Rehash Every Lurid Detail?

I'm glad the guy got caught but for God's sake it doesn't need to be 45 minutes out of 60 int he news cycle.

Let this poor child and her mother rest in peace. Let her father and brother mourn in peace. Report the fact of the arrest and be done with it.

I hate how they ask a million questions to some reporter in Bangkok who just keeps saying "it's not clear whether.." "we still aren't sure if.." "some speculate that..."

The NEWS is the arrest. All the morbid crap they are pulling to "entertain" and get ratings again with this story is SICK. Report the arrest and then news of the day please.

AND I'M SICK OF THE DU LECTURES!

[jpgray]

129. Well said

[Blackthorn]

134. "AND I'M SICK OF THE DU LECTURES!"

Word my man, word. I mean, some people are pretty brazen in assuming that since people don't write length platitudes expressing eternal and exponential heartbreak at this case, that means they don't care. That's just fucking offensive.

[Texasgal]

138. See post number #2

[Blackthorn]

144. You mean this one;

How nice that you don't care that
a child was murdered....

How sad.

Firstly, please hunt down where I said I don't care about murdered children.

Oh that's right. I didn't.

Not that you're concerned with what people actually say, rather than berating people for not feeling the same way you do.

I resent that fact some stranger on the internet feels the need to call out literally thousands of people for having a different opinion.

You are not my conscious, you're a nagging aunt that continually feels the need to tell you the "right" way to do things.

[Lex]

132. I can't think of even one DU'er that doesn't have compassion for

a murdered child.

Was that the premise? That DU'ers lack the humanity to have compassion for a murdered child?

Sorry, I'll have to reject that premise 100%.

[Texasgal]

137. See post nuber 2. n/t

[Lex]

142. Post number 2 doesn't mean the poster has no compassion

for a murdered child. It means that he doesn't see it as a major newsworthy story. That doesn't equate with having no compassion for the child by any means.

[greyl]

165. Right, Texasgal is believing her own straw arguments.

Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[MercutioATC]

135. I felt bad for Natalee Holloway, too...

...and the hundreds of non-white, non-blonde, non-attractive, non-wealthy girls who've been murdered without any attention from the press.

Nonody's arguing that JonBenet's death wasn't tragic. They're saying that the press chooses who's worthy of attention.

Neither JonBenet nor Natalee are worthy of any more attention than the hundreds of other children killed in this country every year.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

139. I'm seeing it, too, and here's what I think...

I think there's LESS sympathy for her case because she's white and from a rich Republican family. This is ugly knee-jerk behavior that I've seen before at DU, and it's JUST AS BAD as the media not paying enough attention to non-white children or girls who are missing, raped or killed.

It bothers me too that the media gives far more time to missing pretty white girls from suburbia, but that doesn't make the brutal death or disappearance of a young white girl (Jon Benet Ramsey or Natalie Holloway or whoever) any less tragic. It's all horrific and evil.

It's not always a zero sum game, though it unfortunately seems that way at DU sometimes...

[citizen snips]

140. I care

I just don't care about hearing every detail about it on the news over and over again.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

145. I care deeply about JonBennet Ramsey

This case was horrifying to say the very least. I’ve always felt great sadness and grief for what JonBennet Ramsey had to endure before her death and what her parents had to endure in the years that followed due to the lies, gossip and innuendo that was spread about them –including by some of the authorities that should have known better

Every child lost -be they Lebanese, Palestinian, Israeli, Iraqi or American or from whatever nationality -is a profound tragedy

What I think many people object to is the media satuaration and disproportionate coverage of the event -that they will drag up friends, neighbors and everyone who even remotely knew the family for interviews and will cover the event 24/7 while not giving adequate attention to other important news story. That's not to say that this story should not be covered comprehensively but as someone who is not from the US, my impression when I visited the US approximately three years ago was that the media went overboard to an unnecessary extent reporting on some stories and some of the equally important stories often got sidelined.

I think it also concerns people that African-American and Hispanic missing children hardly get any media attention at all when they disappear or are murdered. I'd like to see less of these cases swept under the carpent because all children are unique and special and all of them deserve a right to justice and equal attention

I also am concerned that the media covering stories like this have a propensity to rush to judgment and to spread a whole load of gossip and innuendo that ultimately can only further hurt the people involved. It is that same tendency which ultimately saw so many negative, hurtful and totally outrageous insinuations cast against the late Patty Ramsey and her family. I wish the media would learn to be a bit more professional in how they handled these things.

But none of that negates the fact that this is a good day for justice. I am glad that JonBennet's Ramsey's killer has been caught and, if they have got the right person, I hope he pays for what he did. No child of whatever race should have to suffer like JonBennet Ramsey did and the fact that Patsy Ramsey died without ever having seen the arrest or ever having the cloud of suspicion lifted from her and her family really and profoundly saddens me. May both Jon Bennett and Patty Ramsey rest in peace and may the existing members of her family receive some closure, peace and comfort. It's been a long decade for them

[Rowdyboy]

147. You weren't here in 2003 when Bob Hope died.....I was stunned....

I saw sickening displays of hatred against a man I respect. I may not agree with all his politics, but I respect what he did for the military during his long career. Some here are extremely polarized and angry, while a few others are merely trolls. Most people here are sickened by the murder of this child and the nightmarish circus for the parents that followed.

[havocmom]

149. Her dad said her mom died knowing there was a suspect

It is sad, but it affects few people.

When news broadcasts focus on 'stories' that affect few and ignore the NEWS that affects many, THAT is a tragedy which allows for more tragedies.

It is not cold to want news to present NEWS that actually had bearing on most people's lives.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

151. Never mind...

nt

[LSK]

153. my 2 cents

1. How many children in Iraq have meet an equal or similar fate?

2. This is a criminal case, not a political event. Yes its a tragedy. But it happens and there are criminals and sick individuals in the world. This is a political board. Not sure if the two are related.

3. I didnt follow the case and I dont follow it now. Theres nothing I can do to find the murderer or bring the little girl back. However I can learn about politics and try to influence people by keeping up on political issues.

[barb162]

156. I am glad they caught the suspect. I feel really sorry for

the Ramsey family. They went through hell for ten years with the accusations and suspicions

[LeftyMom]

161. Nope, still don't give a flying fuck

either about the case or your disapointment.

[greyl]

163. You have no reason to be disappointed unless

your expectations were divorced from reality. If your expectations were divorced from reality, that's not the fault of DU at large.

To remind you: It's only an arrest. Most of DU knows that arrests don't equal "we got the guilty party".

edit: I'm still mourning the horse.

[FredScuttle]

164. I'm really disappointed in YOU

How can you ignore the tragedy of this poor angel's unsolved murder?



Oh, the humanity!

[KAZ]

166. Why don't you stop bashing DU.

Of course we care, but we've had JoBenet shoved down our throats for 10 years. How many innocents have been murdered during that time. How many murdered children could WE have PREVENTED? Scream and cry about that, and then get back to me.

[LeftyMom]

167. Because she's going to go bitch about us on some spin-off site

and in order to make it beleivable she has to run the Maude Flanders Think of the Children! routine here first, then get dismissed so she can call us all heartless over there.

[KAZ]

170. That was my initial reaction...

... but somehow, I feel like she thinks we're reacting inappropriately. I hope she knows that I feel sick about the murder of that child. And that I feel sick about the murders of 100s of thousands of children, that we have paid for and delivered, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Lebanon.

[LeftyMom]

172. You don't need to justify your feeling or your humanity

Don't take the bait.

[LSK]

173. she already did

[LeftyMom]

174. Good to know some things never change.

You can set your clock by some people. Jesus. :eyes:

[devilgrrl]

168. Stop it!

Now!

[Evoman]

169. I'm really disappointed that there are so many threads about Jon Benet

I feel sympathy for the family, I really do. But I also know better than to let the media manipulate my feelings.

[Old and In the Way]

171. Can DU have humanity?

I thought that was a human trait.

Just for the record, I am sorry she was killed and I'm sorry that justice has been delayed for 10 years. I think most people here have a problem with our corporate news media that supersaturate the airwaves with a single case while ignoring the countless deaths of virtually every other human being in this world. I am not obsessed with knowing the details about this. If she was my daughter, I'd feel differently. But, even then, I would not want to have it being discussed ad nauseum on the airwaves, in the print media, and internet chat rooms. I think there is something very unhealthy in our culture when we are served up random tragedies that effect .00000001% of the population and then proceed to obsess over every detail. It is pandering to our basic instincts and deflects from the issues that effect us all.

[Heidi]

175. Locking.

This discussion has become a flamefest.

Thanks for your understanding.

Heidi,
DU Moderator