Okay Folks....we now have two Right Wing Cable News Channels...

[KoKo]

MSRNC under it's new Programmer Dan Abrams (son of Judy Miller's Lawyer, Floyd Abrams) and we have "Fox." The "insurgent" is CNN which has only Wolf Blitzer who works every day of the week except the Sabbath with curmudgeon Jack Cafferty being the only voice to counteract him.

I gave up watching "PBS" and "Local Networks" when they went to the Dark Side...so I'm wondering what folks who aren't as sophisticated as folks here on the "Internets" who can read international media and no matter where we live we can link to NYT's, Chicago Trib, WaPo, LA Times and the many, many News Sources like "Common Dreams,Consortium News, Buzzflash,Alternet, American Progress, TruthOut, Firedoglake, TPM/CAFE & Mudraker, Digby, America Blog, Media Matters, TomDispatch, Sirota Blog...and so many, many others that I just couldn't retrieve from my "hard drive brain."

But...most Americans get their news from the Cables..and those are the ones that the Parties cultivate because they have the "money that K-Street Lobbyists want in their camp."

So...when MSNBC goes RIGHT to Join FOX and CNN has ONE FEATURE ANCHOR and News Person (Wolf Blitzer) then what does that say about what's going on in Media America?

What IF we had "fair and balanced" news. What if for every Repug there was a Dem who was required to be on the broadcast?

Wouldn't Bush's numbers be much LOWER than they are today?:shrug: Bush is in the Crapper when we have a MEDIA (where even though Americans own the airwaves that transmit this crap) who is going "crash cart" to pump Bush and Co. "UP" but he keeps going down, down and down...yet WE CONSUMERS OF CABLE get MSNBC/CNN following down the road that Murdoch built with FOX NEWS now 24/7???

Can someone explain this to me?

[meldroc]

1. Pretty much all of the MSM has been subverted by the right.

I have to pretty much supplement my news intake with lots of blogging (and a dose of Air America radio) to get something resembling a realistic picture of the news.

If you're relying only on MSM, you've got blinders on. CNN isn't much of an "insurgent" with not-so-closeted anti-immigrant racist Lou Dobbs calling a lot of the shots.

[Cha]

2. Follow the money...their

bottom line is tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts, and ratings. So, what if they showed the "news" and nobody watched?

[meldroc]

3. The ratings whores in the MSM strongly bias our news,

which is why we're always seeing stories about rich white girls suffering horrible fates instead of real news.

[RamboLiberal]

4. Hey we still have Olbermann on MSNBC

So that's one small ray of sunshine. Abrams though is really stinking up MSNBC with his changes. Someone said on mediabistro that he has turned Scarbourough's show in to "nuts and sluts". I can't believe it but the ratings are actually better for those damn taped crime and prison stories Abrams now has programmed from 10-midnite. And he sure blew it during the opening days of the Israeli/Hezbollah war when he stuck to the taped crap while CNN and Faux went live.

I wish he'd take his ass back to real law and get out of the TV biz!

[sgxnk]

5. actually

the stat i read shows that most people get their news from the network channels, NOT cable news.

do u have a cite for your assertion?
"But...most Americans get their news from the Cables."

[Cleita]

8. The network channels are no better because they are

owned by the same RW leaning corporations that the cables are owned by.

For instance General Electric not only owns NBC but cable channels MSNBC, CSNBC as well as thirteen NBC network stations in major markets.

[sgxnk]

16. ok but

you are dodging my question

you made a claim to support your assertion

that "most americans get their news from cable news"

which you are now apparently tacitly admitting is false? or not?

you are evading the basic question with a "but" but no "yea"

are you now admitting that most people don't get their news from cable, or not?

im not badgering but you are clearly evading. we aren't politicians. we are real people.

[Emit]

6. If it had not been for Reagan

If it had not been for Reagan abolishing the Fairness Doctrine in the 80s and the passage of the 1996 Telecommunications Act (yes, signed by Clinton), FOX, et al. might not have existed at all.

[KoKo]

14. I will be glad when that "sucker's name" is taken off every airport,

building and monument in his NAME. The ancient Egyptians used to "cut out the carvings" of Pharoahs whose name came into "disrepute." Time for Reagan to be CUT OUT...and Bushie and his Poppy, too!

They are "Emperors who Dismantled and Destroyed our Constitutional Democracy!" They need to be "stricken" from our records...since we can't even get access to their real Presidential Papers because of the Government Secrets/Unitary Presidential Act!

BeGONE!!! Fowled up the GREAT EXPERIMENT...with their "droppings." I have no respect for any of them... And, time will show they were the instigators of the CRASH AND BURN of AMERICA!

[Cleita]

7. We could sue them for spreading propaganda.

I honestly think it's our only recourse until we can get some lawmakers with clout to bring back the fairness doctrine and other legislation to make them honest.

[KoKo]

10. Agree....and I hope so much we can find a way to sue them for taking our

"owned airwaves" and misusing them for Propaganda! I think of the thousands of letters the FCC got a couple of years ago trying to stop Media Deregulation when Colin Powell's son Michael was head of FCC and we only had two Dems against the Majority Memeber of Repugs. We managed to forestall some of it...but the Repugs hit back at us and pushed through a "compromised" Dereg...and then Michael Powell left just before his father.

We out here..in AMERICA who OWN THE FREE AIRWAVES WE BREATH have been dissed by the Repugs and before them "Clinton" (when he was in the midst of Monica Troubles and Repugs had him "literally by the balls" so that much legislation was done that set up BushCo. just following up with the knife in our backs.

I have yet to hear one Dem come out against "Media Dereg" or the dastardly
"Telecom Act of '96" that gave away the last of control to the Repugs of what we Americans owned in the first place.

Without a FAIR AND BALANCED MEDIA...Dems will always be fighting BACK...Fighting BACK against PROPAGANDA! Wouldn't one think that the Dems would have realized this? Why did they support this dreadful deregulation in the first place?

PEACE! for my RANT. :rant:

[sgxnk]

27. please explain

the process by which you can sue for "spreading propaganda".

that legal action does not exist in the US, nor should it

bad speech is countered by good speech. that's how free speech works

there is no such thing as a lawsuit for "spreading propaganda"

if that was possible, the internet would shut down

[Eric J in MN]

9. Floyd Abrams is a famous First Amendment attorney.

He also defended Al Franken when Fox tried to stop him from publishing his "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right."

[arwalden]

11. When Did PBS Go To The "Dark Side"??

I must have missed that.

What is PBS doing differently now that makes you think such a thing? Are you referring to "The News Hour"? Or is there something else that causes your disappointment in PBS?

[KoKo]

12. AR...you probably weren't watching "News Hour" for years...You're a kid

who has just come on to the PBS Scene. But...for those of us who watched it from the '60's on ...it's not even a "shadow of it's former self." It's a "moth eaten tattered shroud" of it'self....while becoming a huge "SUCK UP ERECTION" for Repugs.

I won't go into a history...because you are the only DU'er who migh read it. I have to ask you to take my word as a "long time viewer" who tuned out of it after Gore vs. Bush. I tried and tried...but it was "too late" the RW Anaconda had swallowed it whole. :cry:

[arwalden]

20. "You're a kid...."

[mnhtnbb]

22. The downhill slide started when MacNeil left and Gwennie was hired.

[Cleita]

13. I don't know when it started but it came full circle when

they squeezed Bill Moyers off of "Now". That show was the last bastion of true journalism on TV, now it's just another ineffectual news magazine like "Primetime".

[Hamlette]

15. "most people get their news from the cables"? Hardly.

the highest viewed show is O'Rielly with 2 million viewers.

That's not even 1% of Americans.

Problem is, most Americans don't get any news.

[KoKo]

17. You only cite one show...O'Lielly on Fox...How many watch CNN (the most

trusted news in cable) because they grew up on it...and it's their baby's milk and wouldn't think that CNN could lie to them. How many others will watch Katie Couric and think she's the perfect follow up for Bob Shieffer...

How many even have a "history" of knowing when networks used to (under the mandatory FAIRNESS DOCTRINE that Reagan got rid of) be "Fair and Balanced" because Govt. Regs forced them to be...because Congress had declared our "Airwaves belonged to THE PEOPLE!) :shrug:

[Bill McBlueState]

26. not that many

If not even one percent of Americans watch cable news's most popular show, I don't see how anyone can claim that more than five percent of Americans watch cable news with any regularity.

About a year ago I stopped following the cable news drama. It's made my life a lot more peaceful.

[David Zephyr]

18. Two? It's always been three.

It's three, KoKo1, and always has been. It's corporate news.

MSNBC:

2000: Jack Welsh demanded that NBC and MSNBC "call" the election for Bush and there's video of his hissy-fit doing so that Congressman Henry Waxman exposed.

2000: Chris Matthews screams that Al Gore was "an idiot" when he first challenged the Florida votes.

2000-2005: MSNBC fraudulently showcases long-time Republican pollster and GOP consultant, Frank Luntz, as their "independent" pollster and only when it becomes the embarrassment of the network is he let go.

2003: MSNBC fires Phil Donahue, who had high ratings, solely because he challenged Bush's rationale for invading Iraq.

2003-2006: MSNBC hires Republican hick-extraordinaire, Joe Scarbreath, and Republican political hack, Tucker Carlson (whose father is raising money to defend Scooter Libby) for show anchors.

CNN:

No cable news network cheer led the invasion into Iraq more than CNN. Fox didn't even come in close. The intentional manipulation of news, the fear mongering, the dizzying replay and replay of Saddam Hussein shooting his gun and/or lifting his sword is one of the shabbiest crap I have ever witnessed in my long life.

Aaron Brown, on the night of the invasion as we were dropping bombs on top of hospitals and civilian homes in Baghdad killing children and the infirm, repeated with glee "Great fun! Great fun!" as our sick "Shock & Awe" was initiated.

Wolf Blitzer, more than any single "anchor" ridiculed and mocked anyone who dared speak against the war. He, more than any other, went out of his way to burn the edited and doctored "Dean Scream" video into American minds.

FOX:

At least their "pretense" at "fair and balanced" is tongue and cheek. They know no one believes them.

[KoKo]

19. True...I didn't want to be too harsh...but ...know what you mean..n/t

[MzNov]

21. I hear you. It's an interesting scenario.

I regret every day that a person can't get real news by turning on cable. Nada. Except for Democracy Now (even tho Amy Goodman gets money from Ford Foundation so she's kind of a left gatekeeper), and turning on Air America. I think the appearance of AAR, ongoing Daily Show, and Colbert have really helped get the left's message out there, plus the hunger for real news. I still believe that the corporate media is the reason why bush & Co has not been impeached, and the general population is still in a coma. But things are looking up!!

:-)

[Octafish]

23. And we're in danger of having two right wing parties.

Thanks to ABCNNBCBSFauxNoiseNutwork.

People just don't know any better.

There aren't any other ideas for them to choose from.

"In These Times" shows has an excellent article this week on how to develop alternative media.

Sorry I don't have a link, but I looked and will continue looking.

[Emit]

24. So true!

Reminds me of a guy I met when I was canvassing and doing a survey for the Dem party last week -- a registered Dem. Had to ask him a series of questions related to which way he leaned toward voting for various candidates, Repub or Dem. He talked my ear off -- the usual, about how he hates them all, they're all crooks and how unhappy he is with gas prices, the war, etc. Then he said that he listens to the "Independent" talk radio hosts (He was a truck driver). I said, "Oh, who do you listen to?" He said, "Michael Savage"!!

Most of the people I canvass are just really ill-informed. This same guy asked me where I got my news about candidates and issues and I said mostly on line. He warned me not to trust anything I read on the internet.

So a guy who gets his news from Mike Savage, and who considers Savage a reasonable Independent, is telling me where to get my news!

[Octafish]

25. Thanks, Emit! Here's the 'In These Times' article...

Welcome to the Media Revolution

Thank you for your story about canvassing. People just don't know any better. The Founders understood the roles of the media to be so important in a democratic republic thata a "Free Press" is the only business named in the U.S. Constitution.

BTW: In These Times also ran an excellent article on canvassing...

Do You Have a Minute for...?

This truly is an "associative universe."

Now if we can associate "Leavenworth" and "Dick-tater"...

[Emit]

32. Excellent article, Octafish

on how Progressives need now to bypass mainstream media and begin to reshape national media by developing our own "progressive 'echo chamber' that can begin to counter the right’s media machine" !

I particularly like the interactive diagram here:

http://inthesetimes.com/site/multimedia/mediamap/

I'm going to bookmark this and share it with others who have concerns about the media, as well as for my own peruse. Getting a handle on the media issue is truly is essential.

I think this article, and/or a discussion on the topic with this article included, deserves its own post!

Thanks again, and for the other link as well on the topic of canvassing. BTW, Sundays are my paid canvassing days -- so I'll be on my way in an hour to hit a hundred or so houses again!

edit clarity

[Armstead]

28. Right t-wing talk radio host Michael SMIRKonish is a "news anchor" there

The aptly named SMIRKonish specializes in that condescending form of right wing radio talk.

Now I noticeds that MSNBC has him on a slot as a "news anchor."

Any credibility that NBC News may have had in the past has gone down the toilet.

(But one disagreement with you KoKo. Floyd Abrams is a leader in the ACLU, so he is more a civil liberties guy than his crummy son.)

[bobthedrummer]

29. Columbia Journalism Review has an excellent MSM ownership site

Who Owns What
http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/

MSM, as well as the Internet, are components of the psychological operations and propaganda we are illegally subjected to 24/7 because the goals of the "closed" Office of Strategic Influence have continued, adapted and expanded.

[goclark]

30. Abrams IS FOX!

I can't take that scum bag.

[elehhhhna]

31. Maybe they don't want to be sent Anthrax (again) before the '06 elections.

Worked the first time.