What was Jefferson's political party?

[politicat]

I'm getting some conflicting messages from a couple of sources.

From my memories of American history, my encyclopedia and a couple of other sources, I'm seeing that Jefferson was a Democratic-Republican, which evolved into the Democratic party. They were state's rights advocates, individual libertarians, and general rural; they incorporated small farmers and factory workers later in the evolution of the party. The Federalists were single government and industrial advocates who evolved into the Republicans.

However, I'm reading "Undaunted Courage" (about the Lewis and Clark Expedition) and they keep referring to Jefferson as a Republican.

Was this an accurate description of the party at the time, or were the authors trying to recast Jefferson as a Republican?

[DavidDvorkin]

1. The Republican Party didn't exist in his lifetime

It was founded a few decades after he died.

[Kutjara]

4. I wish it didn't exist in mine. n/t

[DavidDvorkin]

28. Hah!

That's a great line.

To be fair, when it began, it was the party most of us here would probably have belonged to.

[a la izquierda]

2. He was a Republican

However, the Republican party that we know of today began evolving as such around the Civil War. He was NOT a Republican in today's scheme of things.

[B Calm]

29. He was not a damn republican!

[Bucky]

41. He was a damn Republican. They changed their name later, however...

The handle "Republican Party" was informal in his day, but "Republican" was the standard way of referring to the supporters of Mr Jefferson's agrarian policies. In some cities there were clubs called the Democratic-Republican Societies. They were pro-French Revolution and pro-Jefferson. But in the sophisticated circles that Jefferson ran in, the world "democracy" was still a synonym for "mobocracy".

In his conciliatory first inauguration, Jefferson named the two contending parties of his day outright with his famous quote "We are all Federalists; we are all Republicans." The term "Democratic-Republican" for the Jefferson faction wouldn't come into vogue until the War of 1812. After that is when there was a D-R party, which by Jackson's time was known formally as the Democratic party, just to keep from saying a mouthful.

[B Calm]

51. NOPE!

The name "Democratic-Republican" -- used by modern historians to distinguish this party from the present Republican Party (founded 1854), with which it has no direct connection -- was most employed after 1816; by that time, the Party had come to include almost all the politics of the United States. The name "Democratic-Republican" was most used by the branch of the Party that later consolidated around the candidacy of Andrew Jackson, and which became the present-day Democratic Party.

[Kutjara]

3. He was a Democratic-Republican.

He was founder and leader of the party. The modern Democratic party traces its lineage directly back to Jefferson, but the Repugs have made various attempts to hijack the same lineaage for their own ends.

Wikipedia has an interesting article on the Democratic-Republicans here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican_Party_%28United_States%29#Modern_claims_to_the_party.27s_heritage

[Zomby Woof]

5. Democratic-Republican

Which in his time, was referred to in shorthand as the Republican party, so any historical source which says so is being accurate.

The modern Republican party was not created until 1854, and that was from the ashes of the Whig party, which was the main opposition to the Democratic party.

The modern Democratic party evolved from the splintered and declining Democratic-Republican party, in 1824, making them the world's oldest political party.

The Federalist party was the main opposition party to the Democratic-Republicans, but they were all but dead by the time Madison's two terms were through. In fact, when Democratic-Republican James Monroe ran in 1820 for his second term, he was unopposed. One electoral vote was cast for someone else, so as not to break tradition with Washington being the only unanimously elected president.

[brentspeak]

10. Someone on Wikipedia says that Britain's Conservative Party is the oldest

(First paragraph)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29

Then again, this is Wikipedia, where basically "anything goes".

[Kutjara]

13. It is, but there is a question of interpretation.

The original 'Tory Party' (the popular name for the Conservatives), formed in the wake of the 'Glorious Revolution' of 1688, but went through a large number of schisms, factional divisions, splits and reformations during it's long history. Any (or none) of these could be taken as evidence of the death of the 'old' party and the formation of a new one. It all depends on how many hairs you want to split.

[brentspeak]

18. What I don't understand about the Conservative Party is

considering how people normally equate the word "Tory" with spoiled, inherited-rich jerks, why the Conservative party members like to be known as "Tories". (Maybe they like being jerks...)

[Kutjara]

20. Precisely.

It has historically been the party of privilege, snobbishness, elitism and entitlement. In recent decades, it has become the party of 'self-made aristocrats,' who hark back to some fictitious 'golden age' of rigid social classes and working-people who 'know their place.' An unfortunate number of people buy into this cretinism, and so happily wear the Tory tag.

[Zomby Woof]

15. Upon further investigation, both can be true

If you click the link to "Conservative Party", it says in the text that it is the world's oldest, but the factoids in the column on the right say it was founded in 1830. The text does go on to say that it was formerly called the Tory Party, which does date back before even the Democratic-Republican party.

So... in name, the Democratic Party is the oldest, dating back to Andrew Jackson's first campaign in 1824. But in lineage, one could argue the Conservative Party is the oldest.

I will stand by the name as the arbiter, if only because a name change represents some kind of fundamental change occurring, or at least an attempt to create change.

[brentspeak]

17. Yup, you're right. Officially, the Democratic party is the oldest.

[Kutjara]

19. It gets even muddier when you consider that...

...in the UK, 'Conservative' and 'Tory' are interchangable. The old Tory name never went away, it was just subsumed into the repurposed party in 1830. In modern public discorse, you'll hear 'Tory' used as often, or moreso, than 'Conservative.' (of course, you'll hear 'fascist twats' more than both, so perhaps name isn't the best guide).

[Odin2005]

31. The British parties evolved from earlier losely-organized factions

The early Whig and Tory factions were not as well organized as the Liberal and Conservative parties they evolved into and hence were not parties in the modern sense, hence the confusion.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. I don't think they're the worlds oldest party.

The British Conservative party traces its roots back to the 1680s; I wouldn't be surprised if other countries had even older ones.

[Zomby Woof]

43. As I said...

In NAME, the Conservative Party dates back to 1830; in lineage, yes, quite a bit longer. So in name, the Democratic Party is the oldest by 6 years. Name changes count, because they signal some kind of material goal, if not actual act, to change the direction of the party and its role in the prevailing government.

And I doubt if there are older parties. There has never been any dispute among historians about any older than either the Democratic Party or the Conservative Party. Since the world was dominated by feudal monarchies, despots, or similarly non-democratic governments, it is highly unlikely there is a party which has been in existence continuously since before the Tory/Conservative or D-R/Democratic parties.

[Bucky]

45. Except Jefferson would not have embraced the term "Democratic" in 1800

That phrase only came into vogue around the War of 1812. When people in the early Republic referred to democracy, they meant it as a polite synonym for mobocracy. Jefferson distanced himself from the urban movement known as the Democratic-Republican Societies that sprang up in support of the French Revolution. Jefferson was sympathetic, but thought "democracy" was going too far--at least while he was in office. The rise of Jacksonian democracy was something he did not care for.

[tammywammy]

6. He was a Democratic-Republican

This is what I got on Wikipedia about the Democratic-Republic party. I don't use Wikipidia much, but can be reliable in something like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic-Republican#Modern_claims_to_the_party.27s_heritage

Modern claims to the party's heritage
At least since William Jennings Bryan the core of the modern Democratic Party identifies with the anti-elitism, the distrust of business and banks, and the democratic strivings of the early party. Since 1936 the party has disavowed the States' Rights policies of the original party, and in the 1980s it broke with the southern base. In recent years, the modern Republican Party (founded 1854) has identified with Jefferson's commitment to states' rights, his distrust of the judiciary, and his commitment to a limited federal government.

The Democratic Party traces its lineage directly to the party of Jefferson by way of Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, and other Democratic-Republicans. The Democratic Party's official website states that their party was organized in 1792 by Thomas Jefferson, and the largest annual fundraisers for state Democratic Party organizations are their annual Jefferson-Jackson Dinners.<12> Many Presidents nominated from the Democratic Party have emphasized their party's link to the party of Jefferson throughout their political careers or during their time spent while President. Martin Van Buren stated in the posthumously published Inquiry Into the Origin and Course of Political Parties in the United States that the party's name had changed from Republican to Democratic and that Jefferson was the founder of the party.<13> Thomas Jefferson Randolph, eldest grandson to Jefferson, gave a speech on July 9, 1872, at the Democratic National Convention and said that he had spent eighty years of his life in the Democratic-Republican Party.<14> On November 25, 1991, the United States Senate passed by voice vote "A bill to establish a commission to commemorate the bicentennial of the establishment of the Democratic Party of the United States." It was introduced by Democratic Senator Terry Sanford and cosponsored by 56 Senators.<15>

The coining of the name "Republican Party" in 1854 for the new anti-slavery party, was intended to harken back to Jeffersonian ideals of liberty and equality, ideals that Abraham Lincoln and many members of the new party sought to revive together with the Hamiltonian Federalist-Adams National Republican-Clay Whig program of active government in economic affairs.<16> Thus, the modern Republican Party was formed in opposition to the principals of states' rights endorsed by the Democrats of the period.

The Democratic Party is often called "the party of Jefferson"; the Republican Party is often called "the party of Lincoln," notwithstanding the ideological shifts that all parties undergo over the years.

[B Calm]

56. The Democratic Party is often called "the party of Jefferson";

the Republican Party is often called "the party of Lincoln," notwithstanding the ideological shifts that all parties undergo over the years.


Modern day republicans are always trying to re-write history. 100 years from now they will say they are the party of Kennedy.

[brentspeak]

7. The Republican party -- ie. the GOP -- didn't come into existence

until 1854. It was a loose alliance of Whigs, Free-Soilers, and Democrats from the north. The most important thing they had in common was the further expansion of slavery, though some Whigs and northern Democrats who also were against slavery expansion chose to remain in their parties.

Jefferson's Democratic-Republican party was first known as the "Republican Party" during Jefferson's time, basically because they supported the ideas of the revolutionary French Republic. The name later changed to the "Democratic-Republican" party, and it's the original Democratic party.

[NoPasaran]

8. Googling around, answers are mixed

Either "Democratic-Republican" or "Republican".

The Federalists had disappeared during the early Nineteenth Century. The Whigs arose to oppose Andrew Jackson; that party declined due large part to the sectional conflict. Northern Whigs, the anti-immigrant American Party (Know-Nothings), abolitionists and some anti-slavery northern Democrats formed the coalition that the modern Republican Party descends from in the 1850s.

[a la izquierda]

9. This thread is making me...

want to kill myself. I'm a PhD student in history and I should be studying for my exams right now (which deal precisely with this sort of stuff).:crazy:

[brentspeak]

11. You're ok, though, right?

You're just employing a bit of hyperbole?

[a la izquierda]

12. Totally...

I'm not really going to kill myself-I'm being a drama queen. But seriously, historical things are stressing me out to no end at this point! Thanks for checking though!!:)

[brentspeak]

14. I'm glad to hear that

I know how stressful grad school can be. Good luck with your exams.

[Zomby Woof]

16. Good Luck!

I just have a B.A. in history, and still would love to get at least my M.A. :-)

[orpupilofnature57]

21. I have a G.E.D. Don't let Shrub rewrite History ,and be Cool *.*

[MzNov]

22. Jefferson and Madison were our version of Progressives... nt

[Poppyseedman]

27. Not hardly.

Jefferson and Madison would be spinning in their graves to be called progressives of today.

I'm not saying progressives are bad, but politically speaking both Jefferson and Madison were alot closer to libertarians then progressives.

[Bucky]

42. Can we agree on "pro-slavery libertarian progressive conservatives"?

of course that wouldn't fit on banner, would it?

[MzNov]

57. No way.

[MzNov]

58. they were the progressives of their time. Not libertarians!

[UDenver20]

23. Federalist

[Zomby Woof]

24. Unless you're being facetious

He was anything BUT. The Federalists LOATHED Jefferson in ways that almost make the GOP treatment of Clinton look tame by comparison.

[Poppyseedman]

26. Jefferson was not a Federalist

Washington and Hamilton were Federalist.

Both of them believed in a strong central government verses Jefferson and Madison who believed in a stronger states rights.

Most of todays Democrats would actually fall into the Federalist party politically speaking.

[Bucky]

48. Jefferson in 1800: "We are all Federalists. We are all Republicans"

The next line in that speech "But only I have tasted Miss Sally's sweet sweet chocolate lovin'" was ultimately cut from his inaugural address.

[jbm]

25. the concept that all people are of equal value...

is the basic assumption of liberalism. Regardless of the party, he was most definitely a liberal. Lincoln was a repub by party, but when he wrote, 'dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal" we can assume he was championing a liberal ideology. Don't pay much attention to party names..look for the underlying assumptions.

[Odin2005]

30. The Democratic-Republican Party, the ancestor of the Dems.

In the Early US people aligned themselves with either the "pro-Big Government" Federalists or the "anti-Big Government" Democratic-Republicans. Jefferson himself would be a libertarian by today's terminology, not a liberal. We need to rember that the Dems started out as a libertarian-leaning party and only became liberal in the modern American sense of the word with the rise of the Populists in the late 1800's.

[DeepModem Mom]

32. Democrats attend Jefferson-Jackson Dinners -- or used to. TJ...

is a Dem!

[Bucky]

46. Well, we have to give him points for a *form* of integration, anyway

:hide:

[1932]

33. Today, Jefferson would have been Dem and Hamilton a Repub.

IIRC, K.Phillip's Wealth and Democracy does a nice little summary on which interests they represented.

[sandnsea]

34. It's revisionism as far as I can see

Jefferson was ALWAYS considered a Democrat until the last 5 - 10 years. I can't even imagine WHY Republicans would want to claim him as he supported separation of church and state, public education, benefits for soldiers, and was completely against the kind of Executive Authority that is the hallmark of this band of criminals and is what I'm personally convinced the Federalists of his day really meant. I'm convinced when people like Jefferson said state's rights, they also meant State representation in the Congress as opposed to federal power in the Executive.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. Why does Jefferson's party count for a hill o'beans?

Just wondering...

[orpupilofnature57]

36. Because he is seen as a Liberal force in colonial context, Hamilton

being a money guided Prig, who would have supported ShrubCo and everything they stand for.

[brentspeak]

38. Hamiliton would have despised Bush

As would all the other Founders. Bush has played games with the Constitution and neglected national security (30 day vacation), not to mention inserted more religion into the government than the Founders would have ever tolerated.

But all the Founders to a man would be steaming mad if they knew the kind of political bribery (lobbying) that has taken over American politics.

[Bucky]

47. While I admire Hamilton's economic program, he has a dark secret

It's not generally circulated among his hagiographers, but Hamilton had a hand in the Newburgh Conspiracy (he didn't favor a coup, but wanted to use the threat of a coup to force Congress to pay its debts to the army). Later, during the Quasi War with France, he seemed to be up to something, history has never discovered what, that included gathering and army and using it as a political machine. If that meant ballots or bullets, no one can say. President Adams didn't want to wait to find out and undercut Hamilton's plan by quickly negotiating peace with France and sending the army home. His showdown with Hamilton is probably Adams's finest hour.

[orpupilofnature57]

49. Like I said,Hamilton was a predecessor of ShrubCo and his ilk.

[politicat]

54. Historical interest, mostly.

But since tradition means quite a bit in the way the country runs, being able to trace political "lineages" becomes useful. It's handy, for example, to know when and where expansionist tendencies came from, and why certain trade policies continue to be important (such as trade with Northern Africa) thanks to treaties and policies founded early on in the history.

And it just tweaked my interest. It's not as if a million other things that tweak people's interest aren't talked about on DU every day...

[katamaran]

39. FELIX Allen keeps trying to hijack Jefferson

FELIX Allen keeps trying to hijack Jefferson. He keeps saying "Ahm a common sense, Jefferson Republican!" at all of his events, and even in some of his ads. He runs around the Charlottesville/Monticello/UVA area trying to pretend he's the reincarnation of Jefferson.

I tend to think that Jefferson would regard Allen with the same respect as a piece of poop stuck to his shoe.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

40. Here's what Tom said about allegiance to political parties.

“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to Heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.” - Thomas Jefferson

A sentiment I wholly agree with.

[orpupilofnature57]

52. Cool Quote !

[RestoreGore]

55. Thomas Jefferson was an AMERICAN

He was a man who was a free thinker who believed in individual liberty. That goes way beyond any "label" used simply for anyone to claim him for their side. His beliefs were universal.

"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson

[Bucky]

44. From Wiki

Let Wiki settle every dispute known to mankind, I say. Regarding Jefferson's party:

"The second Anti-Federalist movement formed in reaction to Alexander Hamilton's aggressive fiscal policies of George Washington's first administration. This movement is sometimes called the Anti-Administration "Party", and it would coalesce into one of the nation's first two true political parties, the Republican Party of Thomas Jefferson and James Madison (not to be confused with the modern Republican Party)."

[orpupilofnature57]

50. Like a Liberal Force?

[bluestateguy]

53. I can take this one

Jefferson was the titular head of the Democratic-Republican Party in the early 19th century, though political parties were poorly organized at the national level at that time. Commonly D-R's were referred to as "Republicans" at the time, no relation to the third party by that name that would later be created in the mid-1850's. The D-R's opponents at the time were the Federalists. The D-R's were so popular that by the end of the War of 1812 the Federalist Party ceased to exist, save for a few hamlets in Delaware and New England. Most old Federalists, such as John Quincy Adams gravitated toward the D-R party. The D-R's became so big that by the early 1820's all mainstream politics took place within the D-R party. This of course led to the disputed mess of an election in 1824. Adams was chosen by the House even though he had fewer electoral and popular votes (what is it about sons of former presidents stealing elections?). Supporters of Andrew Jackson were outraged. They started calling themselves "Democrats" around 1826 to identify themselves as being part of the democratic, populist wing of the D-R party, while the wing of Henry Clay and J.Q. Adams started calling themselves National Republicans. The National Republicans organized into the Whig Party around 1834, while the Jacksonians were firmly established as the controlling wing of the Democratic Party by the 1828 election. Indeed, the Jacksonians viewed themselves as the "true" lineal descendants of Jefferson and the old Republicans: for states rights, limited government, economy in government, suspicion of large financial institutions (Jackson and the National Bank) and a limited military (though James Polk took the Democrats in a more hawkish direction during his tenure). The Whigs, for their part, sought to advance the Hamiltonian vision of America as an emerging industrial power with internal improvements and respected military muscle.