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We are engaged in nuclear warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan RIGHT NOW!!!

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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 02:49 PM
Original message
We are engaged in nuclear warfare in Iraq and Afghanistan RIGHT NOW!!!
All this talk of "nuclear options" against Iran as a deterrent to halting their nuclear programme is really taking it's toll on me. Depleted Uranium has been utilized in the Middle East on behalf of the United States for over a decade. Please do not give in to the semantics of "conventional" nuclear warfare, because it does nothing but appease the Department of Defense stance on changing the semantics of warfare in the 21st century. They've already embedded words in the MSM to desensitize war enough, let's not allow them to mislabel nuclear warfare either!

Depleted Uranium has rendered much of Iraq and Afghanistan nuclear wastelands for the next 4.5 BILLION years!
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. well that's not fair
much of Iraq and Afghanistan were already wastelands.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 02:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. radioactive dust from d.u. ordinance WILL mutate lung tissue, enlist now..
You would have to be living with blinders on to enlist in the U.S. military today.
How can so many our youth be so misinformed and naive about the health risks, JUST GOING TO IRAQ?
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. How is DU any more radioactive...
than naturally occurring Uranium found in the ground?

Sid
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ewoden Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's not, it's just in higher concentrations than at background
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IChing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Maybe you should check out what has happened at Navaho reservations
with woman and children and the amount of cancer in the ground mining has done.

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/UraniumInNavLand.html
http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/sdancy.html

Or here about depleted uranium by the world health organization

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/europe/2001/depleted_uranium/default.stm

Then come back and ask a educated question
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Uranium Mining releases trapped radon gas...
which is a very significant radiation danger, especially when inhaled, where alpha particles are able to damage delicate lung tissue. However, we're not talking about radon gas here. Or uranium mining. The OP suggested that there's a "nuclear war" going on in Iraq. Which is factually incorrect. DU is a heavy metal, and as such, has similar toxic properties to any heavy metal. That is where the real danger of using DU lies.

Natural Uranium, made up of 3 different Uranium isotopes, with concentrations of approx 99.27% U238, .72 U235 and trace amounts of U234. The half life of U235 is ~ 700 million years. The half life of U238 is ~ 4.5 billion years. U235 is the isotope primarily used for nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons.

When natural uranium is enriched, it is processed so that the concentration of U235 is increased. What is left is depleted uranium, uranium with a concentration of U235 that is less than natural uranium.

So I ask again. How is DU more radioactive than naturally occurring Uranium, when the more radioactive isotope has been removed from it?

I was hoping for an educated answer, but so far have not been given one. The OP made a ridiculous claim, without knowing any of the science to back it up.

Sid

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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Here's how I understand it.
My understanding is that normally natural uranium is not breathed into the lungs as it is bound into soil and rocks etc, but the dangers of DU in weapons is that when the warhead hits the target it burns and/or explodes which creates millions of tiny radioactive particles of urnaim oxide which can be suspended in the air and then sucked into and become lodged in the lungs. From the lungs these tiny radioactive particles pass the lung/blood barrier and enter the bloodsream and from there enter the internal organs and become stored in the bone.

While pure depleted uranium (U 238)puts out alpha radiation which is easily blocked by clothing or even the layers of dead cells on the surface of the skin, once inside the lungs or other body tissue the alpha particles do have the ability to cause damage to the cells and DNA. In addition, the radioactive decay process of U-238 creates two daughter elements, thorium Th-234 and protactinuium Pa-234 which both emit beta radiation (along with some gama as well) which is more powerful and more destructive than the alpha radiation,especially when the radiation is being emitted from radioactive material stored inside the body and not coming from external sources.

For more details see this paper by a nuclear physicist Leonard A. Dietz (recently deceased).

Contamination of Persian Gulf War Veterans and Others by Depleted Uranium

by Leonard A. Dietz

July 19, 1996 (last updated Feb. 21, 1999)

<snip>

After 25 weeks, Th-234 and Pa-234 have reached 99.4% of the decay rate of U-238 and for practical purposes have reached secular equilibrium with U-238, their parent isotope. Secular equilibrium means that the decay progeny of U-238 are being replaced at the same rate they are decaying; after 25 weeks all three isotopes are decaying at approximately the same rate. This is a maximum time; in reality, equilibrium will be reached much faster, since these two isotopes can never be separated totally from U-238. The isotope U-238 emits alpha particles and also emits some gamma rays. Its decay progeny Th-234 and Pa-234 each emit beta particles and gamma rays. An alpha particle is a fast helium atom with its two electrons removed, a beta particle is a high-speed electron and a gamma ray is like an X-ray.

From this analysis we conclude that in a solid sample of DU, six months at most after manufacture of a DU penetrator, or DU armor for a tank, or DU particles in a person's body, substantial additional radiation in the form of beta particles and gamma rays always will be present. In fact, most of the penetrating gamma radiation and all of the penetrating beta radiation from DU comes, not from uranium, but from the decay progeny of U-238 (Ref. 15). In a year, only one-thousandth of a gram (1 milligram or mg) of DU generates more than a billion alpha particles, beta particles and gamma rays. The U.S. Army has investigated the generation of DU aerosols in armored vehicles hit by DU cannon rounds. Their investigators report "...that personnel inside DU struck vehicles could receive a dose in the `tens of milligrams' range due to inhalation" (Ref. 16). This exposure results in an acute dose of uranium.

http://www.wise-uranium.org/dgvd.html


From the wikipedia entry on U-238


While uranium-238 is minimally radioactive, its decay products - Thorium 234 and Protactinium 234 - are beta particle emitters with half-lives about 20 days and one minute respectively (Pa 234 decays to Uranium 234, which has a half-life of hundreds of millennia, and this isotope does not build to equilibrium concentration for a very long time). When the two first isotopes in the decay chain reach their (tiny) equilibrium concentrations, a sample of initially pure uranium-238 will emit three times the radiation due to uranium-238 itself, and most of this will be beta radiation. After all the beta radiation is almost over, the by-product of uranium-238 would be (Pb) lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U238


From the Uraniume Medical Research Centre www.umrc.net :

Fiction: Alpha particles can't penetrate clothes and skin.

Fact: This statement ignores the most prevalent and dangerous pathway for uranium to get into the human body. Inhaled uranium can remain in the lungs and bones for years where it continues to emit alpha, beta and gamma radiation. Each alpha particle can traverse up to several hundred cells causing somatic and genetic alterations. Multiply this by billions of such particles and a huge amount of cellular damage becomes possible. The majority (50-70%) of the airborne DU particles sampled during the testing of 105 mm DU projectiles were in the respirable range and capable of reaching the non-ciliated bronchial tree. Studies also indicate that the half-time in the lungs is up to 5 years.

Soluble DU compounds have rapid access to the bloodstream with consequent toxic effects on the target organs and the bone where it is incorporated. Mass spectrometry results of deceased Canadian veteran, Captain Terry Riordon, confirmed that depleted uranium was present in his bone. From there it can compromise the immune system and affect the stem cells that travel throughout the body thereby affecting many other organs. Soldiers inside a tank or armoured vehicle can inhale tens of milligrams of DU after the shell goes through the tank. Compare this to the maximum allowable yearly dose in the U.S. for inhaled uranium is 1.2 milligrams per year.

http://www.umrc.net/facts_and_fictions.aspx
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JohnyCanuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. Here's how.

Facts and Fictions (from the Uranium Medical Research Centre www.umrc.net )

Fiction: Uranium usage and levels are too low to be a concern or merit investigation.

Fact: It is estimated that 300 - 800 metric tons of DU were deposited in the battlefield in Iraq and Kuwait in 1991. Dr. Doug Rokke (DU expert and former US army physicist) estimated that 120 to 480 million grams of DU would be aerosolized if 40% of the DU were burnt up.

Compare these numbers to the allowable limits for radiation releases in the US. The National Lead Industry Plant in Colonie, NY was closed down for violating a New York state court order which limited the amount of radiation released to 387 gram of DU metal per month. The plant closed down in February of 1980 for exceeding this limit and closed permanently in 1983. The area has been decontaminated. The engineering report states that the soil from 53 of the 56 nearby properties was beyond the radiation limits and had to be removed to a low-level radiation storage site. The cost was over 100 million USD. The cleanup cost was 1000 USD per cubic meter.

DU in the US must be processed in a facility that is licensed to handle radioactive material. The military has rules to handle radioactive emissions when they store or handle radioactive rounds. However, there are no controls whatsoever and no rules for cleaning up after a cannon round is fired and the danger is far greater when the Uranium becomes aerosolized.

http://www.umrc.net/facts_and_fictions.aspx



Contamination of Persian Gulf War Veterans and Others by Depleted Uranium

by Leonard A. Dietz

July 19, 1996 (last updated Feb. 21, 1999)

Abstract
We develop background information about depleted uranium (DU) and use it to describe a physical model of how on the battlefields in Kuwait and Iraq a large number of unprotected Gulf War veterans could easily have acquired dangerous quantities of DU in their bodies.

* We examine how U-238, which comprises more than 99% of DU, decays radioactively, producing two decay progeny that are always present with it and add significantly to its radioactivity. The pyrophoric nature of uranium metal causes it to burn (oxidize rapidly) when heated by impact or in fires to form invisible aerosol particles that become airborne.
* We refer to scientific measurements that have been made of the atmospheric wind-borne transport of uranium aerosols over distances up to 26 miles (42 km) from their sources. Stokes' well-known physical law helps to explain how airborne transport of DU particles can occur over large distances.
* We describe how gamma rays and energetic beta particles become absorbed in body tissue and can traverse large numbers of body cells, potentially causing damage to genetic material in the nuclei of living cells. We describe a biokinetic model developed by the International Commission on Radiation Protection that explains how uranium microparticles can enter the body and spread to vital organs. The model predicts that an acute intake of uranium particles can result in urinary excretions of uranium for years afterward.
* We review estimates of the tonnage of DU munitions fired during the Gulf War. Even if only one or two percent of a low estimate of 300 metric tons of DU fired burned up, this would have produced 3000-6000 kg of DU aerosols.

This background information allows us to propose a plausible contamination model at a battle site. It consists of three steps: (1) a source of hundreds of kilograms of DU aerosols generated suddenly against concentrated Iraqi armor; (2) widespread rapid dispersal of DU aerosol particles by wind action; (3) inhalation and ingestion of DU particles by unprotected U.S. service personnel on the battlefield.

Complete paper available here;
http://www.wise-uranium.org/dgvd.html
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Chemical Bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. And they scare us by talking about "dirty bombs"...
while we are setting off "dirty bombs" every day in Iraq and Afghanistan. I hear you.

Bill
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-20-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
6. kick!
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. the use of DU weapons is a war crime and . . .
a crime against humanity . . . and BushCo will eventually pay for their complete and utter disregard for human life, the environment, and the planet itself . . .
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-21-06 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
10. It will be a part of the bush* legacy. Along with lying and warmongering.
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