Bin laden tape- *peace be upon hims* missing/ WTF?

[Carni]

Here is a link to a supposedly full transcript of the binforgotten tape from yesterday

http://www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/01/19/ap2462598.html

Note at the link to yesterday's tape transcript that when UBL says *God* that he does not follow the statement with *peace be upon him* or any other traditional type blessing (disclaimer--whatever that is/forgive my ignorance I have no idea what it is called I just know it's ALWAYS said)

Now here is a link to a transcript of a 1997 interview with UBL for CNN (pdf file)

http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/binladen/binladenintvw-cnn.pdf


Note in the 97 interview that after every mention of God there is a *peace be upon him* type remark...

It is extremely cumbersome to read both of these transcripts but I would really like the opinions of others on this--I thought it was like mandatory to follow a comment where you mention about Allah or God with a *peace be upon him* or like type statement?

Even if it isn't mandatory why did UBL do this in 97 (to the point that it's annoying to read his comments) and then none of that yesterday on the so called new tape?

[JeffR]

1. Karl was in too much of a hurry

To get the script ready?

[Carni]

4. Yeah really-

After reading this stuff for four years it dawned on me when I read yesterday's tape transcript that the structuring of the remarks wasn't right.

[JeffR]

8. And given "Osama's" grasp of US current events...

Maybe CNN should hire him too. It would be an improvement on the post-pubescent know-nothings and recycled right-wing hacks they employ nowadays.

[Carni]

13. yeah no kidding--

The CNN interview BTW was by Peter Arnette and we all know what happened to him!

[JeffR]

14. God yes

What an upside-down world this planet has turned into.

[sabra]

2. he also plugged an anti-american book... this whole thing smells...

[Carni]

7. Wonder if that book was published in Arabic?

wouldn't that be a hoot if it wasn't lol

[Poll_Blind]

3. I agree Carni, it's very odd. It's like Pat Robertson NOT saying....

..."Praise Jesus!" after every other sentence.

PB

[Carni]

9. I think it might actually be a sin to not follow with the P.B.U.H deal

That's going to be a real pain to google :(

[JuniperLea]

5. Anything on the tape that can be put on a timeline?

A date or event mentioned? Or is it all very vague, as per usual?

[Carni]

10. In yesterday's blatherings he references Europe bombings

But he doesn't specifucally mention a city--so it could be spain or Britain I guess.

[htuttle]

12. I'm pretty sure 'he' refers to a few events from this last year

He refers to the report of Bush planning to bomb Al Jazeera in Qatar, and of course the reference to the 'Rogue State' book.

[leftofthedial]

6. once you own all the media and all the "intelligence" you can do anything

and no one will question it.

I'm surprised they don't just throw an Arab shemagh and some cheap sunglasses on Karl Rove and make their own al Qaeda videos right in the WH

Oh, wait. They already do that.

[Carni]

11. Yeah I remember that tape

It was pretty pathetic!

[w13rd0]

15. No, sorry...

...it's any mention of any of the prophets that is followed with "peace be upon him". Allah is usually followed with the phrase for "praise be His". There's no need in any religion that I'm aware of to wish peace upon God, since it's assumed God can hold his own in a fight. But yeah, the binforgotten tape is WAY fishy or very poorly translated. And the timing is too convienient to be ignored, as well as the swiftly following Talibornagain talking points.

[Carni]

23. I didn't know the specifics

It just seems odd that no where in that transcript does he does he say any of his usual things--something is very suspect.

[izzybeans]

16. Here is a BBC transcript

perhaps its a transcription problem.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4628932.stm

[Carni]

24. Wow that is quite a bit different than the AP translation

But still no peace be upon hims.

If you look at the PDF file of bin forgotten in 97 he must say it about 25 times over the course of the interview.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

17. The problem is with...

The lousy, less than complete and totally misrepresented transliterations.
A proper translation from Arabic sources DOES have the usual references!

Have you by any chance heard the audio??

[Carni]

25. No, I haven't heard it at all

I wouldn't have a clue what I was hearing either.

[DrDebug]

18. He is also very informal which is not the way Arabs talk

The first two paragraphs:

"My message to you is about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and how to end them. I did not intend to speak to you about this because this issue has already been decided. Only metal breaks metal, and our situation, thank God, is only getting better and better, while your situation is the opposite of that.

But I plan to speak about the repeated errors your President Bush has committed in comments on the results of your polls that show an overwhelming majority of you want the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. But he (Bush) has opposed this wish and said that withdrawing troops sends the wrong message to opponents, that it is better to fight them (bin Laden's followers) on their land than their fighting us (Americans) on our land"

That's not the way a dictator talks. Saudi Arabia is a hierarchical the normal way to make a speech is to talk down to people and not like a friend who is making a speech during a party. He is only gaining some momentum in the end, but the rest is too informal.

[Servotron]

21. Osama's not a dictator.

He considers himself a warrior, soldier of jihad, and/or of Allah, not a political leader. It wouldn't serve his purposes to talk down to people when he's trying to gain popular sympathy for his "struggle".

[Carni]

26. You know one thing stands out a 4th grader could grasp his point

And that is a typically American campaign/speech writer thing--I once read that campaign speeches are slung together so that even a person with very little education can understand what is being said. UBL's comments are usually more cryptic and confusing where as that tape is very matter of fact and easy to follow.

[KnowerOfLogic]

19. I thought they only say that after mentioning Muhamad's name, or 'the

messenger (prophet)', but i don't know if he normally says if after mentioning the name of god. I speak a little arabic and have listened to some of these tapes in arabic, and FWIW i think it's really him, but whether he's reading something someone else wrote for him, who knows.

[Carni]

27. Here check this out this is from the 97 CNN interview

I think you are right about peace be upon him--but look below at all the praise and glory be to him stuff everytime he says *God* (I had the wrong saying) yet in the thing yesterday I don't see all that like I do below.

Maybe you can better see what I mean if you compare this CNN intreview below to the tape translation from yesterday:

Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett
The first-ever television interview with Osama Bin Ladin was conducted by Peter Arnett in eastern Afghanistan in late March 1997. Questions were submitted in advance. Bin Ladin responded to almost all of the questions. CNN was not allowed to ask follow up questions. The interview lasted just over an hour.
ARNETT: Mr. Bin Ladin, could you give us your main criticism of the Saudi royal Family that is ruling Saudi Arabia today?

Osama bin Ladin
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




BIN LADIN: We are confident, with the permission of God, Praise and Glory be to Him, that Muslims will be victorious in the Arabian peninsula and that God's religion, praise and glory be to Him, will prevail in this peninsula. It is a great pride and a big hope that the revelation unto Muhammad, Peace be upon him, will be resorted to for ruling. When we used to follow Muhammad's revelation, Peace be upon him, we were in great happiness and in great dignity, to God belong credit and praise.


BIN LADIN: We are a nation and have a long history, with the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to Him. We are now in the 15th century of this great religion, the complete and comprehensive methodology, has clarified the dealing between an individual and another, the duties of the believer towards God, Praise and Glory be to Him, and the relationship between the Muslim country and other countries in time of peace and in time of war.





bIN LADIN: Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds, that He made it possible for us to aid the Mujahidin in Afghanistan without any declaration for jihad. It was rather the news that was broadcast by radio stations that the Soviet Union invaded a Muslim country. This was a sufficient motivation for me to start to aid our brothers in Afghanistan. I have benefited so greatly from the jihad in Afghanistan that it would have been impossible for me to gain such a benefit from any other chance and this cannot be measured by tens of years but rather more than that, Praise and Gratitude be to God. In spite of the Soviet power, we used to move with confidence and God conferred favors on us so that we transported heavy equipment from the country of the Two Holy Places (Arabia) estimated at hundreds of tons altogether that included bulldozers, loaders, dump trucks and equipment for digging trenches. When we saw the brutality of the Russians bombing Mujahidins' positions, by the grace of God, we dug a good number of huge tunnels and built in them some storage places and in some others we built a hospital. We also dug some roads, by the grace of God, Praise and glory be to Him, one of which you came by to us tonight. So our experience in this jihad was great, by the grace of God, praise and glory be to Him, and the most of what we benefited from was that the myth of the super power was destroyed not only in my mind but also in the minds of all Muslims. Slumber and fatigue vanished and so was the terror which the US would use in its media by attributing itself super power status or which the Soviet Union used by attributing itself as a super power. Today, the entire Muslim world, by the grace of God, has imbibed the faithful spirit of strength and started to interact in a good manner in order to bring an end to occupation and the Western and American influence on our countries.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, what was the significance of the Afgan war for the Islamic movement? Veterans of that war are fighting for Islamic movements and conflicts from the former Soviet republics such as Chechnya to Bosnia to Algeria. Can you explain that phenomemon to us?

BIN LADIN: As I mentioned in my answer to the previous question, the effect of jihad has been great not only at the level of the Islamic movement but rather at the level of the Muslim nation in the whole world. The spirit of power, dignity and confidence has grown in our sons and brothers for this religion and the power of God, Praise and Glory be to Him. And it has become apparent even to the Islamic movement that there is no choice but return to the original spring, to this religion, to God's Book, Praise and Glory be to Him, and to the sunna of His Prophet, Peace be upon him, as understood by our predecessors, may God be pleased with them. Of this, the acme of this religion is jihad. The nation has had a strong conviction that there is no way to obtain faithful strength but by returning to this jihad. The influence of the Afghan jihad on the Islamic world was so great and it necessitates that people should rise above many of their differences and unite their efforts against their enemy. Today, the nation is interacting well by uniting its efforts through jihad against the US which has in collaboration with the Israeli government led the ferocious campaign against the Islamic World in occupying the holy sites of the Muslims. As for the young men who participated in jihad here, their number, by the grace of God, was quite big, Praise and Gratitude be to Him, and they spread in every place in which non-believers' injustice is perpetuated against Muslims. Their going to Bosnia, Chechnya, Tajikistan and other countries is but a fulfillment of a duty, because we believe that these states are part of the Islamic World. Therefore, any act of aggression against any of this land of a span of hand measure makes it a duty for Muslims to send a sufficient number of their sons to fight off that aggression.

REPORTER: Can you tell us now about your expulsion from Saudi Arabia and your time you spent in Sudan and your arrival here in Afganistan?

BIN LADIN: I was, by the grace of God, Praise and Glory be to Him, in the great spot that is dear to God, Praise and Glory be to Him, al-hijaz, especially Venerable Mecca, where is God's Ancient House. However, the Saudi regime imposed on the people a life that does not appeal to the free believer. They wanted the people to eat and drink and celebrate the praise of God, but if the people wanted to encourage what is right and forbid what is wrong, they can't. Rather, the regime dismisses them from their jobs and in the event they continued to do so, they are detained in prisons. I have rejected to live this submissive life, by God's favor, Praise and Gratitude be to Him, that is not befitting of man let alone a believer. So, I waited for the chance until, God, Praise and Glory be to Him, has made it possible for me to leave the country of the Two Holy Places. I hope God, Praise and Glory be to Him, would confer upon me His favor to return one day when God's law rules in that country. I went to the Sudan and stayed there for aboutfive years during which I visited Afghanistan and Pakistan to work against the Communist government in Kabul. When the Saudi government transgressed in oppressing all voices of the scholars and the voices of those who call for Islam, I found myself forced, especially after the government prevented Sheik Salman al-Awdah and Sheik Safar al-Hawali and some other scholars, to carry out a small part of my duty of enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. So, I collaborated with some brothers and established a committee for offering advice and we started to publish some declarations. (The Advice and Reformation Committee). However, the Saudi regime did not like this and started to exercise pressure on the Sudanese regime. The US government, the Egyptian government and the Yemeni government also helped in doing so. They requested me explicitly from the Sudanese regime and the pressure continued. Saudi Arabia dropped all of its conditions put to the Sudanese regime in return that I be driven out of the Sudan. The US government had already taken the same stance and pulled out its diplomatic mission from Khartoum and put forth their condition to return only after I have left. Unfortunately, the Sudanese government was in some difficult circumstances and there was a tendency inside the government that was inclined to reconciliation or surrender. Then, when they insisted initially that I should keep my mouth shut, I decided to look for a land in which I can breathe a pure, free air to perform my duty in enjoining what is right and forbidding what is wrong. I ask God, Praise and Glory be to Him, for increase in prosperity for this great land, the Land of Khurasan (Afghanistan) in order to carry on this duty. So, we implore God, Praise and Glory be to Him, that He accept (our deeds) from us and the Muslims.

[F.Gordon]

20. Did you ever play "Post Office"

I recall a short time after I joined DU several of us discovered this same "problem" with an OBL transcript. Different news agencies had different versions.

Tried to do our own translation. Didn't work so well. But I did learn that the literal translation for "jihad" ... is "difficult task". :P

I'm guessing that all the good translators were fired from the NSA/CIA/Whatever because they were gay. :eyes:

[Village Idiot]

22. Other parts are disturbing, as well - certainly a HOAX!

"The mujahideen, thank God, are increasing in number and strength - so much so that reports point to the ultimate failure and defeat of the unlucky quartet of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz."

Does he not know that Wolfie is shaking down the World Bank now?

And if Bush decides to carry on with his lies and oppression, then it would be useful for you to read the book "Rogue State..."

Is he actually telling people to join Oprah's Book Club, or WHAT??? This really sounds WAAAAAAAY out there!

"We are people who do not stand for injustice and we will seek revenge all our lives. The nights and days will not pass without us taking vengeance like on Sept. 11, God permitting."

Is he finally, after almost five years, taking credit for 9-11? Anyone else find this rings falsely?



There are very few occurances of "Inshallah" and "bismallah" - any other of his speeches had these phrases by the DOZEN!!! Beyong this, there is NOT ONE SINGLE REFERENCE TO THE KORAN!!!

Very strange, indeed. Perhaps KKKarl has never read it.

[Carni]

28. No references to Israel either

And pre-911 that was a stock thing with him.