1 in every 5 female cadets has been raped at the Citadel, 1 in 25 men

[wicket]

Also, 1 in 25 of the men surveyed have been reported being raped also.

:grr: :grr: :grr:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060823/ap_on_re_us/citadel_assaults

About one in every five female cadets at The Citadel last spring says she has been sexually assaulted since enrolling at the formerly all-male military college, according to a survey released by the school Wednesday.

Nineteen male cadets, or about one in 25 of the men surveyed, also reported being sexually assaulted since joining The Citadel. The survey comes a decade after the first class of four female cadets walked onto campus at the state-supported college. Last year, the school's cadet corps had 118 women and 1,770 men.

All of the women and about 30 percent of the men were asked to complete the anonymous online survey regarding sexual assaults and sexual harassment, Citadel spokeswoman Charlene Gunnells said. Of those, 114 women and 487 men responded. The inquiry is being used to determine how well the school is assimilating female cadets into the corps.

Most of the reported incidents involving women happened in the barracks or elsewhere on campus and the alleged perpetrator was another cadet, the survey found.

[babylonsister]

1. What kind of Animal House has that place turned into? nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

2. Hey, lets all support the troops now.

:sarcasm: And, no, I am not saying they are all guilty, however, that is an unexceptable percentage. Dont ask, dont tell policy??:banghead:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

21. Please get off your high horse and don't paint all of us with

the same brush.:eyes:

[Pacifist Patriot]

24. The high horse isn't all that high.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1967066&mesg_id=1967765

[babylonsister]

33. Thanks for looking that up, Pacifist Patriot. I figured AUS

had similar instances, and self-righteous people really annoy me.

[ComerPerro]

45. high horse? His name is PointAndLaugh, for Chrissakes

lol

[Pacifist Patriot]

23. Your blanket generalization is not only insulting and inaccurate....

but, you should be careful about living in a glass house and throwing stones.

http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/statistics.html

The Women's Safety Survey was conducted in 1995 and published by the ABS in 1996. The survey relied on face-to-face interviews with a random sample of approximately 6,300 women in Australia, aged 18 years and over, who were living in a private dwelling in urban and rural Australia (non-English speaking women were interviewed over the phone with the assistance of an interpreter). The survey investigated women's experiences of physical and sexual violence in the last 12 months, and since the age of 15. It was estimated that, of women living in Australia aged 18 and over:

100,000 (1.5%) experienced an incident of sexual assault in the 12 months prior to the study.
99% of the perpetrators of sexual violence incidents experienced in the 12 months prior to the survey were men.

Women in the 18-24 year age bracket were more likely to be assaulted than women in other age-groups: 19% of women aged 18-24 had experienced sexual violence in the past 12 months, compared with 6.8% of women aged 35-44 and 1.2% of women aged 55 and over.

Only 15% of women who identified an incident of sexual assault in the 12 months prior to the survey reported to police.

An estimated 1.2 million women in Australia aged 18 and over had experienced sexual violence or its threat since the age of 15. More specifically, one in six adult women in Australia had experienced sexual assault since the age of 15 years.

45% of women sexually assaulted since the age of 15 had experienced more than one incident.
Sexual assaults occurring since the age of 15 were most commonly committed by a man known to the victim, and usually occurred in a home.

1 in 10 women who had ever been in a relationship disclosed an incident of sexual violence by an intimate partner.

[wicket]

32. Well put

And thank-you :hug:

[madmusic]

41. Sexual violence: 1.6%

Isn't that progress? Isn't that a lot better than it used to be?

If it is worse in the states, why?

Granted, 126 100 incidents of sexual violence is still a lot, and this is violence or threats of violence, not just touching or something, but even so, isn't it still a lot better than the 1 in 5 we always hear about? If it is twice as good as it used to be, that has to be progress, doesn't it? Doesn't it mean that (mostly) men are getting the picture?

Also, 0.6% of men were victims, which makes women as victims 1% higher, but it's been a long time since any math class.

EDIT: source: http://www.ausstats.abs.gov.au/ausstats/subscriber.nsf/0/6609ADCA83BBB30ACA2571C50074B5B7/$File/49060_2005_Reissue.pdf

[Greyhound]

51. The more repressed a society, the more twisted its sexuality.

Hell, look at Britain, less violent but way more perverse. I won't even start on the African continent, victims of both Catholicism and Islam, scary. :scared:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

52. It is a strange twist in "our" general sexual psychology

It has a lot to do with
1) being constantly told sex is wrong, dirty, bad, sinful, etc. (unless between two married-before-god-and-man-forever-and-ever-never-to-be-free *ahem* -parted-til-you-die-but-only-one-man-one-woman-cause-any-deviation-is-SINFUL people)
2) constant barrage of sexy commercials, tv shows, magazines, etc.

and
3) the suppressed emotions of every one simmering under the surface, because we are forced into this un-natural "norm" that only fits 10% (or less!) of the population.

Blend well, ferment for decades (or centuries for high-potency) and serve.


check us out on the 'values' map...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3744557&mesg_id=3744593

I've been mulling this over for a few years now. We've got some serious self-imposed issues. Fascinating, ain't it?

:shrug: :cry: :mad: :sigh:

[Crabby Appleton]

4. but isn't that less than other schools?

http://danenet.wicip.org/dcccrsa/saissues/campus.html

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Yes it is, but...

I find it interesting given the more controlled environment of a military academy than an open university. I'm not saying the environment is completely controlled and does not provide any opportunity, but I would think it would cut down on sexual assault to some degree.

I attended university near Virginia Military Institute. I wonder what the sexual assault statistics are for that school compared to the Citadel.

The saddest thing to me is that this behavior starts well before college. Sexual assault in the academic setting is way too common in not only high school, but junior high. How in the world can we change such atrocious cultural mores?

Have you ever read Reviving Ophelia?

[SmokingJacket]

5. Does sexual assault = rape?

It's unclear from this article.

[TheWraith]

29. Probably not.

The definition of "sexual assault" usually can run anywhere from forced touching to full rape with penetration. No telling really where each casefalls in the spectrum without details.

[Radical Activist]

34. That's why I was wondering about the headline for this post.

I don't believe it is accurate.

[Pacifist Patriot]

38. The Yahoo / AP article has morphed several times since...

this was first posted. The writing is very bad and not getting any better with the revisions. The first version I saw used the terms "rape" and "sexual assault" and now it's just using "sexual assault."

Still, given the last line in the article, "The Justice Department has estimated as many as 25 percent of women could be raped or experience an attempted rape while attending college in the U.S." it makes one wonder. The rate of incidence at the Citadel would actually be lower than the average even if all reports of sexual assault were indeed rapes.

[LostinVA]

35. Rape is sexual assualt, but all sexual assault is rape

Howeveer, that doesn't make the other types of sexual assualt "better" or less harmful.... imo.

[wicket]

62. Amen to that

n/t

[Jed Dilligan]

6. Terrible, but

I wonder what people think will happen to them if they enroll in military school? I mean, do they really expect not to get raped? It's the same as a prison, a cage full of young, horny apes. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily subject him or herself to such an environment.

[etherealtruth]

14. Uh, yeah ....

...Women deserve to be able to take advantage of the same educational and experiential opportunities as men ... the onus is on the institution to provide a safe environment for all of it's students, faculty and workers.

Entering this horrid environment, reporting it's moral and criminal abuses is slowly becoming (I pray) a catalyst for change.

The question should be: Who allows an environment like this to flourish, much less exist?

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Sexual abuse has always been a part of this form of "education"

The blame is spread throughout a culture that glorifies the military and says "boys will be boys" when we learn of its abuses.

[etherealtruth]

18. I understand that there is a VERY hideous history ...

We need to change the situation ... not avoid it. (I am NOT suggesting that you believe this is "OK")

[Jed Dilligan]

20. It goes way beyond this one school

There's a whole militaristic culture to be taken down!

[uppityperson]

54. indeed there is.

I read your #6 post with amazement, am glad you wrote more which helps clarify. Military culture of Might is Right, of peer pressuring each other on, of being a cog in a larger thing with no personal responsibility, all wrong.

[Jed Dilligan]

56. What's weird to me

is that people can condemn the rapes in the Citadel without condemning the very existence of the Citadel. If you buy macho-military culture, you buy rape. It comes with the package.

[lgn19087]

60. I dont know...

"college women has shown that 1 out of every 5 college age women report being forced to have sexual intercourse..."
http://sa.rochester.edu/masa/stats.php

wouldn't that make the rate noted above below the national average?

if those numbers are true, then military schools aren't exactly the "cages full of young, horny apes", or at least any more so than most colleges.

[Jed Dilligan]

61. What about the 1 in 25 men?

How does that compare to real colleges?

[IChing]

7. Also rape in Recruiting offices

80 Military Recruiters Disciplined for Sexual Misconduct Over the Past Year

The Associated Press has revealed that more than 80 military recruiters have been disciplined over the past year for sexual misconduct. Women were raped on recruiting office couches, assaulted in government cars and groped en route to entrance exams. We speak with Martha Mendoza, the Pulitzer prize-winning AP reporter who exposed the story.
Desperate for more troops, the U.S. Marines announced it is beginning an involuntary recall of inactive service members to return to duty and go to Iraq and Afghanistan. The number of U.S. troops in Iraq has now increased to one hundred thirty eight thousand. At the same time, sexual misconduct by military recruiters is on the rise.
This is the opening paragraph from a recent Associated Press expose: "More than 100 young women who expressed interest in joining the military in the past year were preyed upon sexually by their recruiters. Women were raped on recruiting office couches, assaulted in government cars and groped en route to entrance exams."

The article goes on to quote an 18 year-old victim who says: "This should never be allowed to happen. The recruiter had all the power. He had the uniform. He had my future. I trusted him.""

We speak with the Pulitzer prize-winning AP reporter who exposed the story, Martha Mendoza.

This was on Democracy Now this morning
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/23/1413222

[wicket]

15. OMFG!!!!

:grr: :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Kickoutthejams23]

8. The number is 16 out of 118 girls

Which is one in seven. That is a horrible number and those men involved should be arrested. But why stretch the truth. Is one in five catchier? We do more damage to our causes when we try to pump up the numbers when the reality is bleak enough.

[wicket]

10. Who are you accusing of stretching the truth???

From the article:

It has been a decade since the state-funded college opened its doors to female cadets. Last year, 118 women and 1,770 men were enrolled.

All the women and about 30 percent of the men were asked to complete the anonymous online survey, Citadel spokeswoman Charlene Gunnells said. Of those, 114 women and 487 men responded.

The article has changed slightly since I posted it but I didn't "stretch the truth" by merely printing their numbers.

:grr:

[Kickoutthejams23]

12. I'm just saying 16 out of 118 is 7.375 not 5

[wicket]

13. Fine, send them an email about their math

I just posted the article as is and I did NOT inflate the numbers.

[Kickoutthejams23]

17. I wasn't attacking you.

I'm sorry if you took it that way.

[wicket]

25. No problem

I'm sorry for overreacting :hug:

[Taxloss]

9. How are they meant to respect civilians if they can't even respect their

comrades-in-arms? What a great freakin' recruitment poster for the military: "Join up, there's only a 96% chance of getting raped (80% for you, ladies)"

[WI_DEM]

11. and it's probably higher than that

[warrens]

19. Sexual assault is a rather vague term

Rape is just its most extreme example.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Why the need for the deceptive headline?

Your headline state than "1 in every 5 female cadets has been raped."

Yet the article states "About one in every five female cadets at The Citadel last spring says she has been sexually assaulted"

Great job on giving ammunition to those who would trivialize this problem.

[wicket]

27. Because that's what the headline was when I posted it

As I noted in another post on the thread, the article has changed a bit since I first posted it. Great job on your reading comprehension :nopity: The time for editing the post has expired so there's nothing I can do about the original news article being changed after the fact.

[pitohui]

28. is this "the lords of discipline" school?

seems like there is a culture of violent hazing that goes back decades

why can't they clean up this mess?

[LostinVA]

39. Yes it is -- and, Shannon Faulkner's mistreatment isn't that long ago

The Citadel seems to have had an especially vicious type of mindset pounded into its cadets. I know women who went to VMI, and they didn't have anywhere near the problems the Citadel and Annapolis female cadets have.

My BIL, a conservative dude, says the officers from the Citadel he came into contact with in the Army were GENERALLY an arrogant, fratty, sexist by=unch... who often had trouble dealing with female and minority superiors.

[Pacifist Patriot]

40. Yes it is, but what is really intriguing is that these statistics...

actually put the Citadel below the national average for sexual assaults at a college or university.

[LostinVA]

42. That actually makes sense to me

Very few cadets get to roam free at military colleges -- their time and behavior is very, very structured. It's also difficult to have time alone with another cadet. To me, that actually makes these and the Air Force Academy's stats so horrifylying high. I guess that's because there is a strong culture of obedience and control at military colleges. So, a predator actually Ash to work less hard to find victims -- they are sitting ducks.

[Pacifist Patriot]

44. That's what I said elsewhere in the thread.

I went to university very near VMI and dated a couple of cadets. I can see how the environment would be conducive to sexual assault, but impede opportunity. Strange combination.

[LostinVA]

47. I skipped over your post somehow -- d'oh!

[madmusic]

30. Of those, 114 women and 487 men responded

Any is too many, but doesn't this slant the numbers?

[wicket]

31. Kickoutthejams23 mentioned this up thread

It's actually 1 in 7.

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. I feel for you.

Numbers don't jump out at me. If I'd been the one to post I'd have done a straight copy and paste from the article as well without the arithmetical mistake even dawning on me. It sure is easy to shoot the messenger isn't it? ;) The article started off with "about 1 in 5" and now reads "almost 20 percent." Maybe people should be more concerned with Bruce Smith's writing and the Associated Press' release than they are your headline. Cheers!

[madmusic]

43. I was questioning the self reporting.

Like here, doesn't that slant the numbers?

[Pacifist Patriot]

49. Are you talking about surveys v. crime statistics?

In that case, I would say the numbers are definitely going to be quite different. I was raped as a freshman in college but never reported it. I was 17 and stupid. If I knew then what I know now I'd have endured the humiliation and nailed the bastard through the system.

I would think women are more honest in anonymous surveys than they are about reporting the crimes to the proper authorities. I'm more inclined to trust these surveys than crime statistics. I realize that is a personal bias based upon my own experience and those of women with whom I'm personally acquainted.

[madmusic]

53. I'm not saying those who self reported aren't truthful.

But am only wondering if those with reason the return the survey might be more likely to do so, meaning those who were not assaulted might not respond or might be less likely to respond.

I'm sorry to hear of you college trauma, and hope you were able to finish school and move on. Maybe the only good news is that men are starting to get it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

59. Possibly, but a response rate of 114 out of 118 is remarkably impressive.

Voluntary surveys might carry the skew you're talking about, but what about random surveys?

Thank you. I'm not sure how I pressed on through the freshman year, but I ended up staying at that school all four years and graduating. Unfortunately, so did the rapist. I sure hope men are starting to get it.

[wicket]

58. Thank-you!

:yourock:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

37. 1 in 4 in College are assaulted

1 in 4 Worldwide are battered physically.

I know the numbers have already been given up-thread, but but in this case, repetition is called for.

http://www.wrc.umaine.edu/programs/United%20Sisters/statistic.htm

[madmusic]

46. Sexual violence: 1.6%

As linked above, why is it so much better there?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

55. The Aussie numbers? That's for the last 12 months...

100,000 (1.5%) experienced an incident of sexual assault in the 12 months prior to the study.

The one I quoted is during their lifetime. I bet they are close to ours, but that's just a guess...

I can count 3 specific instances in my life that I was either in that situation, or seriously threatened with it. In only one of those did my bad choices lead to the possibility.

I think the numbers are probably a even a little higher in the US than the article I quoted.

[madmusic]

63. Thanks.

I need an algebra refresher course.

So if it is 1.6 a year, for it to get to 25%, that would be 1.6 * X = 25.

x = 25/1.6.

x = 15.6.

So that means over 15.6 years, the rate would come be 25% (Or 1 in 4, either assault or threat of assault).

And that study didn't count repeated incidents of the same victim.

You know, I always thought that might be a little exaggerated, but it is plainly not. It also explains how you could have 3 incidents. I'm sorry you had to deal with that and hope you are able to move on and enjoy life.

EDIT: sp, of course.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

65. What I had to deal with was minor

but it still fit the criteria. I've been lucky, no permanent scars.

[Recursion]

48. I never had a good officer from the Citadel

They all thought they were God's gift to the Corps and could do no wrong. The Academy officers were a lot better (but mustangers were still always the best officers -- I wish you had to do an enlisted tour before you got a commission).

A few people have pointed out that 1 in 5 is lower than the average college, but then again I think it's higher than the average service academy. But I don't know for sure.

Anyways, Pat Conroy's The Lord's of Discipline is a pretty good book about going to the Citadel back in the 60s, if that same kind of stuff still goes on then sexual harassment is part of the training process :(

[LostinVA]

50. That's what my BIL says -- he was a Mustang, btw!

CWO3 when we got out due to breaking his back in a jump. I said up thread that he hated the Citadel officers -- they were arrogant, sexist, racist, and lazy. And, my BIL is borderline Freeper sometimes.

[YOY]

57. I've met men and women from all of the Armed Forces Academies

Most were gentlemen and ladies and highly intelligent/respectful. I did notice a trend among two of them.

Westpoint: Just way too overaggressive in dealing with teams. I rather resented the constant 'take charge' attitude. They were polite and friendly otherwise.

Citadel: The exception to the highly intelligent/respectful. It was if they had taken the greatest of the overtestoseroned dicks from other colleges and crowded them in one school. They were flat out rude and egoistical without merit.

[wicket]

64. kick

:kick: