Don't Marry Career Women

[AngryAmish]

"Guys: A word of advice. Marry pretty women or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it. A recent study in Social Forces, a research journal, found that women--even those with a "feminist" outlook--are happier when their husband is the primary breadwinner."...

"To be clear, we're not talking about a high-school dropout minding a cash register. For our purposes, a "career girl" has a university-level (or higher) education, works more than 35 hours a week outside the home and makes more than $30,000 a year."

from Forbes magazine (via boing boing)

discuss

[Phillycat]

1. I...erm...

:puke:

[Caoimhe]

2. sexist bullshit n/t

[Sequoia]

84. What a darn cute photo!

[C_U_L8R]

158. totally cute photo

I want one - massage that is

[lvx35]

132. No kidding...Now if it said "don't marry a career person if you are too"

it would be fine...I'll bet marriages where both people aren't working all the time run better. But why is it always the woman who is supposed to stay at home? What's wrong with Mr. Mom?

[bryant69]

3. Seems kind of pathetic

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[ananda]

4. Sexism rears its ugly head..

.. again!

I hate this kind of article. It's so skewed towards keeping
women in their place, barefoot and pregnant, financially
dependent, and disempowered economically and
politically.

This is all such a load of cockpucky.

If a marriage is bad, it's bad.. and career women have more
of a chance to get out of it than non-career women who must
then suffer through years of strain and abuse, which is bad
for them and their kids.

Give me a fuckin break! Get real, stuffy rightwing plutocratic
male-biased authors. Financially empowered women are
good for everyone and always make a society better.

Sue

[Finder]

35. Good point...

regarding career women having a better chance of getting out of bad situations.

[Brewman_Jax]

81. I have 2 graphic examples

My actual mother is 45 years unhappily married to my father. She is not a college grad nor career woman. In a fair world, she should have left him decades ago. She knew that she wouldn't be able to care for herself and children, so she stayed. My other-mother is a college grad and career woman (nursing). She was married twice, but knew that she could take of herself and children and didn't stay in crappy marriages.

Education is about having options.

[OzarkDem]

187. There is one benefit to a revival of sexism in the professional workplace

It will remind younger women not to take for granted all the years of hard work it took to help women advance this far.
It can also be easily lost. A bad SCOTUS decision would be all it takes to throw a lot of progress in reverse.

That said, I'm a career woman married to the same man for 25 years. It just takes some work and compromise.

These guys must have their boxers in a wad because they don't like having to compete with women.

[Caoimhe]

5. I guess that also means

guys: don't encourage your daughters to be anything but housewives. You want them to have good marriages, after all... right?

[bumblebee1]

6. I guess university educated men don't cheat or get divorced.

n/t

[etherealtruth]

7. Well of course ...

... human happiness/contentment can only be achieved with women in a subordinate position to men with in relationships/happiness.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

I don't have enough time to enter all the :puke: I feel.

[amitten]

8. I'm a career woman. And if you don't want to marry me,

that's great, because you're not my type anyway.

[noonwitch]

21. Exactly.

It would be nice to meet Mr. Right and get married. But I'm holding out for Mr. Right. If he doesn't want a career woman, then he's not the guy for me.

One of my cousin's wives laughed at me when I said I'd never change my last name, because I've been working for almost 20 years with the same name. Plus, I like my name, first and last. She asked me what if the guy demanded it, said he wouldn't marry me otherwise? I said that he wouldn't be dating me if he was looking for a woman who would back down so easily.

[AZBlue]

113. Exactly!

Well said!!

[Nimrod2005]

145. Will you marry me?

:hi: :rofl:

[amitten]

192. Yes, if you meet the following requirements:

1. Pretty darn good-looking
2. Good in the sack
3. Good conversationalist
4. Earn a decent living doing something legal
5. Have brains
6. Have good morals
7. Be kind and considerate
8. Like animals
9. Not an addict of any kind
10. Fantastic sense of humor
11. A pleasant odor.

(not in that order, mind you)

So...yeah, I'm a little picky. A little picky career woman! :D

[IronLionZion]

203. I meet all those requirements!!!

So....you wanna get some coffee sometime....or go to an anti-war protest?...:evilgrin:

:hi:

[amitten]

209. You, my friend, are a rarity.

And if you're ever in Austin, sure...the coffee's on me. (Well, not literally I hope.)

[noonwitch]

206. Don't forget my #1 rule: You can't live with your mother!

I absolutely refuse to date any man who still lives with his mother.

[lukasahero]

155. BRAVO!!

Best. Retort. Ever. :)

:yourock:

[treestar]

188. AMEN!

Better to be single than to live with such an asshole!

[BOSSHOG]

9. Wow

My wife has been a career woman for the past 35 years, while maintaining a very loving relationship with me and following my sorry ass around from Navy base to Navy base. Now I'm retired, don't work, spend part of time dicking around on DU the rest of the time dicking around on other stuff and my wife is still doing career women stuff. And we both very happy. Gosh I guess Forbes didn't consider me and my kind.

[Jed Dilligan]

10. Without reviewing the studies cited,

I would say that anyone who makes marriage choices based on statistical likelihood of success is doomed to a very, very bad marriage.

[pooja]

11. If I had my cake and ate it too.... I would deffinately take time off

during those young baby years... I hate the idea of another person instilling fundamentals in my children. But other than that.. the rest of it is all phooey... of course your not going to leave your bread winning husband, cheat on the man (like you get out of the house often enough to think about cheating on your man). oh well.

Personally, I think it would be nice to have the option within a household to choose whether or not you want to work or your husband wants to work, not that you both have to go and slave away to pinch pennies.

[wryter2000]

20. Ding, ding, ding

Personally, I think it would be nice to have the option within a household to choose whether or not you want to work or your husband wants to work, not that you both have to go and slave away to pinch pennies.

We have a winner.

[Marie26]

12. What a jerk

I can't believe Forbes published this. This piece just oozes male insecurity, sorry. "The other reason a career can hurt a marriage will be obvious to anyone who has seen their mate run off with a co-worker: When your spouse works outside the home, chances increase they'll meet someone they like more than you." "Then, to put it bluntly, the more successful she is the more likely she is to grow dissatisfied with you." Yes, don't let her out of the house!

[Sequoia]

91. She'll be disatisfied because the guy is a whiner.

Poor ole white man that I am slaving away for Mr. McGreedy at this 500 Fortune Company. My army boot wearing wife makes more money than me. Boo hoo. I'd better buy a Hummer and make her pay for it. I'm not cleaing this dirty house. She can do it when she gets home, after she fixes my dinner and gets the kids to bed. Opps, gotta go....Father Knows Best is on.

[Cleita]

110. Oh, I can. The founder of the magazine, also named Forbes is

a big RW dickhead. He shows up as a guest on the finance channels every now and then.

[Raksha]

159. What a crock!

How many career MEN have run off with co-workers?

[eridani]

195. That's why the ancient Greeks didn't allow women to watch--

--the Olympics. They were afraid (for some odd reason) that women would get dissatisfied with their husbands.

[shanti]

13. really....

so how am i supposed to eat? :eyes:

[Solly Mack]

14. bovine caca

[bleedingheart]

15. Of course...the burden of a happy marriage is the woman's

these studies piss me off....

The messy house part is the one that really gets my goat...if you both live there...then you should both be cleaning up.

[Ravenseye]

123. Bingo...The studies aren't 'wrong' but the results are predicated..

...on the woman doing everything...

They even basically say that one of the things men don't like about career women is one of the reasons they get married (so they don't have to clean or cook) isn't getting done. Sorry, but it's not a career woman's fault if that's the case. Why does the man get to come home from his job and sit and recline while the woman has to cook and clean?

I'd be curious as to look at a subset of those numbers where the husband and wife both claim to make communication a priority in their relationship, as well as are happy with sharing household chores. Show me a relationship between career husbands and wives, where they openly communicate, and equally share households tasks and I bet there are very different statistics for them...

[Dora]

16. What a distorted perspective.

Why is it always about the woman?

I think it be more accurate AND MORE RESPONSIBLE to say that marriages where both partners work 40 hours a week experience more stress, are more likely to find that one or both partners will have an extramarital relationship, these parents will find that childcare is less rewarding, and are more likely to end in divorce. They can just as easily argue that this is a reflection of our culturally/economically unrealistic demands of what constitutes a normal and healthy working life. BUT NO! IT'S THE WOMAN'S FAULT!

WHY DO THEY ALWAYS BLAME US?

For the record: I work 40+ hours a week, have a toddler in daycare for those 40+ hours, and I'm in my 14th year of being very happily partnered to the same man, married for four of those. My husband had to go part-time after a layoff 2003. If he was still working full time today, we would never see each other, never have time for our son, and we'd both feel isolated and lonely. Damn straight that it is economically hard on us that his dayjob is part-time (gigs, lessons, and recording brings in income as well), but the resultant payoffs are so much greater than money can buy. Our contentment and happy homelife is worth every pinched penny.

[wryter2000]

17. Fuck that shit

If I was a stay at home wife, my husband would have fucking starved. I wish he were still alive to tell this person what he thought. Would have scalded his ears.

[sarge43]

18. Yes, as always, it's the wimmin's fault if a marriage fails

Mega-:sarcasm:

[Heidi]

19. Don't _even_ get me started.

:puke:

Forbes ought to poll Call Me Wesley about the value of having a partner who doesn't rely on the "guy's" income. I suspect he's pretty pleased that I'm financially independent.

Respectfully submitted,

Heidi (who's always been happiest earning as much as or more than her partner)

[wryter2000]

26. Last I heard

men like having more money in the household rather than less.

[Heidi]

32. I've heard that, too,

as recently as half an hour ago. ;)

[IdaBriggs]

37. Mine whines when I don't! He has made darn sure that I know he

doesn't mind if I make more money than him -- in fact, he encourages it! He has this fantasy about becoming a "kept man" and the style he would like to live in! He's a wonderful partner who really encourages me in everything. Isn't it great to have a good man? :)

[tonkatoy57]

46. Before we married...

...my soon to be wife said in passing one day that she didn't think she would like to be married to a man who made less than she did. I didn't think as much about that passing comment as I should have since I was making three times what she made at the time.

Now my wife makes, roughly, three times my salary and it has certainly changed the dynamics of our household. We entered into marriage with the understanding that what I made was "ours" and what she made was "her's". It remains that way today. I'm responsible for the mortgage and all household bills. My wife pays for groceries. I've never felt poorer in my life and my wife doesn't understand why I occasionally don't pay a bill on time. I'm juggling bills trying to get everything paid. She really resents having to use "her" money to pay for major things like a new fridge or roof.

I can empathize with '50's housewives.

[Heidi]

55. Are you saying that your wife treats you poorly

because you make less money than she does? I hope that's not the case, because economic bullying is wrong, regardless of gender.

[tonkatoy57]

66. I'd say she treats me...

...differently now that the economic imbalance is weighted in her favor.

It's certainly disheartening to suffer from anxiety when you have to ask your wife to pay for something like new glasses or a dental bill because you don't have the money. Before doing so you have to ask yourself, "how much will I be made to grovel today", and,"how long will the lecture on financial management be".

[Heidi]

69. Well,

I don't want to be the cause of any problems that aren't already present in your relationship, but if you were a woman seeking advice from a crisis hotline, you likely would be told that you're being emotionally abused. I can't say that I would disagree with that assessment, but I'm not qualified to make that judgment.

Hugs are cold comfort, I know, but I'm sorry your value in your relationship is sometimes reduced to economics. :hug:

[Finder]

76. Well just think how it is for millions of women and has been...

for way too long.

Look at your marriage in light of a partnership...like in business.

[grace0418]

211. Yeah, but for women, at least in "traditional households" they have

a husband who pays for a majority of the household expenses and does things like yardwork and cleaning the gutters and whatnot (I'm speaking totally stereotypically here). In tonkatruck's situation, he carries the bulk of the financial burden AND the bulk of the household responsibilites. If the roles were truly reversed, she'd be paying for more than groceries *and* she'd be at least doing the yardwork, regardless of who makes more money. Unless they eat solid gold for dinner and their grocery bills are more than their mortgages, she's getting by far the better end of that deal. I'd personally be very concerned if my spouse was that selfish.

[Marnieworld]

90. she's being selfish and unreasonable

It's time that you re-evaluate what marriage is to you and how it is defined in your relationship. It's alright when people have separate accounts, it may make balancing the checkbook easier. But when two people who are supposed to be united are living radically different financial lives it is a problem.

I was once watching Suze Orman's show and she had good advice. Add up the total of both of your incomes. Then determine the percentage of contribution of each of you to that total. Say the total, for easier math, of the whole household is $100,000 and you earn $30K and she earns $70K. She should be responsible for 70% of the household bills because she makes that much of the collective income and you would then pay 30%. That is the only fair and equitable distribution of burden in proportion to income.

Marriage can be many things but primarily (as it clear when it ends) it is a financial contract joining the income and assets of two individuals to be a new separate entity. It's like you have two different worlds not one. You shouldn't have to feel like your partner is a bank that you apply for loans. How is that saying we are in this together?

At least that's my opinion based on my own beliefs and observations, no profession. If you were my friend I would describe it as abuse and control and not living in love.

:hug:

[Finder]

106. Every family or relationship will be different but the example you cite...

seems unfair. It is like punishing someone for making more. Do you think that if two individuals/friends decided to room together that the one making more money should pay a larger percentage of the bills? Of course not.

[Marnieworld]

114. roomates aren't married

And take it up with Suze Orman if you disagree.

I don't think that sharing income with your equal partner is unfair. If it's an "US" situation then the money is "ours." What's unfair is expecting a partner to live up to your lifestyle when they don't have the means to and then berating them for it like the OP described. That's why it is a marriage and not just living together because it is a financial contract.

[Finder]

137. Well we don't know both sides of the situation, but in the past too many..

wives have been left with NOTHING when husbands have moved on. Any woman who does not keep a nest egg with the worst case scenario in mind is leaving herself open.

If the OP is so unhappy there is always divorce.

[Finder]

148. No idea who Suze Orman is....

and I agree sharing is fair. I just disagree that when the situation is totally equal that one partner should pay more based on what they earn.

Also, depending what the grocery/food bill is the family...that can be equal or higher than a mortgage/bills. I know it is in my situation.

I do agree with you regarding lifestyle pressures and as a couple they need to make financial decisions together.

[grace0418]

210. No, roommates should not live like that, but we're talking about a

married couple. It's not the same thing as being roommates at all. The fact that tonkatoy57 and his wife seem to live more like roommates than a family is actually part of the problem here. Except for the fact that his wife seems to want him to act like he's the bread-winner when it comes to paying for the mortgage. She can't have it both ways and expect him to be happy about it. Either they live like total roommates and split all expenses equally (which doesn't make for a happy marriage IMHO) or they work out the finances like a family. Right now she's getting to live essentially rent free, have a free live-in housekeeper, cook and yard boy, and all she has to do is pay for groceries. Pretty sweet deal for her. Pretty selfish too.

Heck, even in the most ass-backwards, sexist, Cleaver-esque households, the breadwinner pays for the bulk of the household expenses while the other spouse cooks and cleans. Mrs. tonkatoy seems to be getting out of *all* of the responsibility.

[Clark2008]

112. That's what my husband and I do.

He's in sales and makes a good deal more than I do (because I can't stand sales and, in my town, that's just about the only place one can get a decent income unless you're a member of the Republican elite, which, obviously, I'm not). We split some of the bills in half, but, because he required more cable access, both internet and television, and his insurance was higher than mine when we were single, he pays more of a percentage of those two bills, for example.

We have separate accounts, but those accounts are linked and we just transfer money around to pay bills: kind of like separate, yet equal (LOL!).

Do we fight about money? Sure! I lived as a single mother for years on a paltry income and have a house; whereas, he had a better income and only has a truck to show for it. We fight mostly about spending habits, but he's getting better, now that we've purchased a house together. He knows he can't just go buy a big-screen TV when the mortgage and electric bills have to be paid or ruin your credit (BTW, my credit score drawfed his, despite his earning two times as much).

[Sequoia]

101. Now, that's downright mean.

All she's pays for is the food? What a very selfish person. Sorry, but she's treating you way wrong and you can tell I said so. Hang in there buddy!

[NashVegas]

124. No Offense, But I Think Y'all Need a Marriage Counselor

If the roles were reversed, any woman in a healthy marriage would expect her husband to be putting more money into the house than he would the golf course. And she would not expect to grovel about extras, just say, "we need X dollars for ..." and get a check on the dining table the next morning.

Your wife is being entirely unrealistic. And you don't sound like you're comfortable at all with her financial footing, either, which may make it more difficult.

[grace0418]

135. tonkatoy57, can I be blunt? That's fucked up. I'm sorry, but it is.

No adult should have to grovel to their spouse for money, man or woman. You are supposed to be a team, a unit, a FAMILY. If she can't see that, then you should really examine your relationship more closely and maybe get some counseling.

First of all, just from a financial/credit standpoint, it's utterly idiotic for her to be allowing bills to be paid late because you don't have the cash if she DOES have the cash. Her credit will suffer as much as yours from late payments.

Second of all, it's just plain unloving to live like college roommates if you're married. I mean where does it end? With you timing her showers and telling her that she owes you money because she used more hot water than you? Or with her claiming you ate 75% of the pint of Ben & Jerry's so you owe her a dollar? It's petty, and ridiculous and does not make for a happy marriage.

There are plenty of solutions that will allow each of you to have some money that's yours alone and some money that's both of yours. It's fine to keep separate, personal accounts for yourselves. But there should be a joint account from which all JOINT purchases are paid. You should figure out a percentage (or dollar amount) of your income that will go into that joint account and then the mortages, utilities, insurance, groceries, car payments, etc. should all come from that joint account.

I think you have to have a talk. That is a very sad situation, and it doesn't sound like she'll be motivated to improve it on her own. Good luck.

:hug:

[wryter2000]

139. I'm really sorry that's happening to you.

I hope you can get things on a fairer basis. In a backassward sort of way, that's part of the "traditional" way of looking at things. The man makes the living, and the woman makes "pin money."

:hug:

[suziedemocrat]

173. She sounds like a total bitch!

There - I said it. If you are MARRIED you should both work together to support the household. She sounds like she is stuck in the "men should take care of women" fairy land.

Also - I think the article is total bullshit! Hitler didn't like working women either. "kinder, kuchen, kirchen" (children, cooking, church)

[r54w32q1]

174. you're being emotionally abused.

Good call Heidi...lots more at google

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

63. I'm so sorry for you!

I've always made more money than my husband, but the money is OURS. We do discuss things and decide what to get-only time we haven't was when one or the other of us had a medical emergency-but we both know that spending money there is OK.

Right now, our income is low, but we are rich in our happiness and devotion to one another.

I hope you can somehow change your wife's thinking.

[Finder]

73. That is the arrangement in my home too...

What he makes(at his primary job)is ours and what I make is mine. This works since I am the primary cook, child rearer, homemaker. This was established well before marriage. I do handle(without resentment)all major purchases...vehicles, home repairs, etc...

My husband got another part time job and the income from that is his to do with what he wants.(his toy fund.lol) Have you considered doing that?

[tonkatoy57]

79. I teach music privately..

...so, yes, that money is there to take care of day to day expenses like transit fare, a beer or two, or if I go out to eat lunch at work on occasion.

I'm also the cook, house cleaner, handyman, and yard boy.

[Finder]

85. Do you have children? n/t

[Recursion]

138. #6 sent me through the roof

The house will get dirtier? Are you f**king kidding me? I love how they say "the man could pick up a broom" almost like it's a joke.

[Dora]

93. Wow.

:hug:

That's out of balance.

:hug:

[IdaBriggs]

99. I'm sorry to say this, but it doesn't sound like a "fair" arrangement.

It almost sounds like you have a roommate w/privileges, instead of a partner. My husband's earnings are mine, and mine are his. We negotiate "big purchases" from the household fund, and try not to abuse the checking account. We have a "no questions asked" policy about minimal personal purchases (I'm addicted to books / he loves computer games, etc.), and other than the fact he's the "cash" guy (he likes carrying it, while I'm more of a credit card/check book woman), its a pretty equal partnership.

I don't understand the "separate account" people, and in your case, I have a hard time figuring out what your wife is spending her salary on -- you say she makes three times your salary, but you still cover the mortgage, and the bills? That doesn't make any sense to me. Is she socking it all away to surprise you with an early retirement or something? Is she a gambling or shopping addict? I would definitely be sitting down for a "renegotiation" session if I were you!

Good luck! :hug:

[Finder]

147. "Separate account people"?lol

Sorry, that sounded funny...I call them individuals. Why should a bit of romanticism/sex in a friendship/partnership cause one to trust someone more?

As a woman, I feel confident that if my husband should decide to want out, I am secure financially. I never would have entered into a marriage under any other arrangement. Perhaps that is the radical feminist in me.

As long as the male knows that he is entering an relationship of equality, it will be successful. Men who marry in order to have someone take care of the house, cook, raise kids will not be happy with equals.

[IdaBriggs]

214. Well, for me MARRIAGE is more than "a bit of romanticism/sex" but

that is MY relationship. It is literally a matter of life and death, and I trust him with it, as he is the one responsible for making my medical decisions in the event I am incapable of doing so, just like I am with him. When you are trusting someone THAT much, frankly money seems like a pretty small thing. Also, he explained "the new rules" to me years ago -- before we got married: whatever he earns is OURS, and whatever I earn is OURS. We are a partnership, and we are working for OUR future.

Now, let me explain the circumstances of that particular conversation. We had just bought our first home ten months prior to our wedding (and yes, we were confident we were getting married, and knew the risks involved in that large of a mutual financial purchase without being married, but we had been living together already, and it was a good financial investment, as opposed to renewing a lease). Anyway, when we bought the house, we were very careful not to overextend ourselves, but the whole thing was still planned on "two incomes" -- but a month after we moved in, I came home and announced that I wanted to quit my lucrative job, and return to school to complete my four year degree (which I had two and a half years left in, and had been diddling around with for a long time on a part time basis). My beloved sat down, did the math, and figured out we could be without my income for eight months and still afford to pay for my school, so I quit, and then did seventy-five credit hours at an accredited four year college in eight months, while finalizing my wedding plans, and then getting married mid-semester.

Now, it wasn't very long into this extremely insane time that I had a small freak-out. I felt HORRIBLE asking him for money for lunch, gas, etc. because I hadn't had to ASK anyone for money for YEARS! (I've been on my own since I was 17.) It felt very "daddy, can I please have" to me, and I hated it. I nearly started hyperventilating as a full blown panic attack started -- what HAD I gotten myself into? Double/triple the classload at a University, planning a wedding, buying a house, getting married, AND QUITTING MY JOB??? Was I nuts? Who was this guy, anyway? What if it didn't work out, and I ended up homeless? And was I taking advantage of him? (I'm not one of THOSE people, thank you!) Was I supposed to do the cooking and the cleaning and stuff while trying to do this insane school schedule AND take care of all the damn wedding things? (He had very little interest in wedding planning stuff; his eyes would glaze over very quickly, while I could go on for hours about every single detail -- sigh.)

That was when he sat me down and explained "the new rules" -- when we decided to get married, we became a partnership. My degree was an investment in our future, and he was proud of me for what I was doing. The money he was earning was OUR money. The money I would earn in the future was OUR money. We were both going to do our best, and as long as we both gave it our best, it was going to be okay.

But, what if I failed, I asked him. (Did I mention that the whole idea for 75 credit hours in 8 months had come from a book my mother had picked up at a garage sale for a dime called, "How to Get Your Four Year Degree in One Year?") Would he hate me forever, and hold it above my head to beat me up with it whenever we fought for the rest of eternity? (Did I also mention my family is amazingly dysfunctional? Hence the whole "moved out at age 17".)

No, he told me. He knew I would do my best, and he believed in me. Now, I needed to chill out, quit acting like an idiot, and come give him a kiss (which I did, but honestly, not until after a lot more panicking).

I completed my degree, got my first job as a college graduate (as an easter bunny at a local drug store -- sigh), and then stepped into my new field at a substantial cut in pay from my previous job, but that didn't last. Its ten years later, and my income quickly increased. I'm a "project" person, so I go through periods where I work like crazy/earn a ton of money, and then months where I recover/don't make a dime. He's a rising young corporate executive in finance, and prefers the security of a fortune 500 company, so he's doing well, too.

We rarely argue over money; most of those times are him panicking about the future/retirement accounts (he's figured out when we will have to start eating cat food -- I believe its currently at 2046). He has a lower threshold for minimum amounts in the checking account than I do, while I get anxious about "emergency money that we don't touch" so we compromise. Bills are paid on-line, and the checkbook is recorded in Excel, and e-mailed back and forth weekly, while he loves to plan out future expenses to the tee. (I'm more laid back.) Of the two of us, I am "the little devil" who encourages frivolous spending on stuff we want (I didn't even consult him when I bought him a satellite radio recently), but we are both pretty conservative in general. Our biggest fights involve Christmas Spending on my family, which since they pretty much suck, drives him crazy. Also, my side is four times as big as his, and he doesn't like most of them, so, its the biggest stress.

If something were "to happen", we both know where all the accounts are at, and it would be impossible for one of us to "drain them" without the other one knowing, but that is more in the nature of how the accounts are set up in case one of us dies, than because of a trust issue. In the meantime, we are both lucky enough to make good money, and no addictions except to books and computer games, as well as a mutual hatred of shopping for clothes, so we do okay.

Its not always been easy (as witnessed by my story), and we have had to discuss things regularly over the last ten years, but overall, it works for us. As I said, I trust him with my life and my future children; money (even when we were contemplating bankruptcy after a failed business attempt, but that's another story) isn't one of our "trust" issues. Sometimes its a "priorities" discussion, but we are both reasonable people who understand the difference between "want versus need" and we do okay. Frankly, it just seems "normal" to me, and thus I have a hard time understanding the folks who have to do the "separate accounts" because one spouse takes advantage of the other, or they don't trust each other, or whatever, although I do get that there are circumstances where those are good decisions.

Its a pretty good deal for both of us -- he's my best friend, and I love him to pieces. I am an extremely lucky woman, and he is the World's Greatest Husband. Fortunately, he's not perfect, so we still fight sometimes, too, but I would say I'm happy 95% of the time, and he seems to be, too. It works for us. :shrug:

[Finder]

218. Sounds like you found a great guy...

who is very supportive of you. Good luck.

Being a separate account person, I don't see any other way. I had my own accounts and assets before marriage and can't imagine just handing it over. Of course we have a joint account as well for house expenses.

Our Christmas situation is always interesting for the reasons you mentioned but I cover that up to a certain amount.(I am a lot more frugal than he is.) We have 3 kids so it is usually crazy.

Not sure if you mentioned if you had children yet, but believe me...rarely is the situation equal between partners in the child rearing years.lol

Tuck some money away for yourself in case of emergency...if none arises..you and your spouse can take a cruise at retirement.

[OzarkDem]

189. Ours, too, for 25 years

Not to say we haven't squabbled over money when its tight, but its easier if marriage is a partnership.

[Cleita]

115. That's not acceptable. Talk to her.

My husband and I lived together before we got married and we split expenses down the middle. However, I always found myself with an empty purse and he had plenty of money. I finally told him he was proportionally going to have split the expenses with me or I was moving out. I told him that he would have to pay 70% of the household expenses and I would pay 30%. It was fairer that way.

However, after we got married, he turned his check over to me and I paid the household expenses, saved and invested. I gave him an allowance and a credit card for his personal use. It worked out much better that way as I was better with managing money than he was even though he always earned more than I did.

[IronLionZion]

207. Sounds like you need to have sit down chat

and might need a third party. I'm really sorry to hear that you are unhappy. Your wife needs to know how you feel.

Damnit, money is the worst thing to fight over. Money and relationships are like oil and water.

[Heidi]

48. You've made my day.

It's great to have a partner like that of any gender, and it especially makes my day to hear from other warrior women who are living and working as more than appendages of their partners. (The last thing Call Me Wesley is is a whiner. He loves it when I'm the best that I can be, but he also knows that The Wiley and Excellent Boy Cat Named Ginger would eat roast beef every day, with or without his income. :D )

I'm glad you have an excellent partner, IdaBriggs. Stuff like that makes my dad, gf. :hug:

P.S. You didn't think you'd get away without viewing a "baby pictureQ" of how well-adjusted the son of "career girl" can be, did you? :rofl:

[wryter2000]

136. There are good guys out there

That's why we don't have to put up with ones like the author of the Forbes piece.

[SoCalDem]

75. My daughter-in-law makes more than my son, and occasionally

he ribs her about it, but she only makes a few thousand a year more and two six-figure incomes in a household is a blessing to a couple of 32 yr olds, so they are happy :)

[Sequoia]

104. Stop with all these cute cat photos.

I'm angry and happy at the same time!

[Lex]

22. I do believe that women are less likely to stay in bad marriages

if they have the financial means (good job, good pay) to leave it and support themselves when it is bad.

Some women stay in bad marriages because they don't have the financial means to leave it--I guess the author of this piece prefers that situation.

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Oops! Too late!

My life will be ruined now! I didn't marry someone who is lazy, has no goals or motivation, or is an idiot! D'OH!

As they define it, 'career women' are just average women that have a job. Using a dividing line like $30,000 a year is pathetic - that is less than the functional minimum wage in a large portion of the US! Why in hell would anyone not want to do better than that, unless it is because they have a really great job that makes them very happy (in which case it becomes a career position anyway, which violates the premise again)? Marriage is a partnership, so why would I want a partner that is a liability?

[Heidi]

65. If I could recommend a post, this would be the one.

I'm proud to say that I married a rational man much like you, EP. :hug:

[EstimatedProphet]

70. Aw shucks!

:pals:

[Greyhound]

24. The management at Forbes, like its founder, is full of sexist,

misogynistic, assholes, that are terribly insecure about their tiny penises. But then, I suppose that pretty much sums up the entire financial industry.

[pscot]

25. Forbes is an asshole

and his magazine refllects his personal views: smarmy, moralistic and self-rightious with a full blown sense of entitlement.

[RB TexLa]

27. I did, and that would be the only kind of woman I would have considered

[Misunderestimator]

152. LOL!

No other comment than that. :rofl:

[RB TexLa]

204. I don't see what's funny

[Misunderestimator]

213. Ok

[no_hypocrisy]

28. Hey guys! Don't marry women who can THINK and COUNT MONEY!

Fuck you, Forbes.

[warrens]

29. Forbes, eh?

Sure that wasn't published by Malcolm, back in 1967 or something? Either way, it's a hoot. Just to be clear, I wouldn't marry someone who DIDN'T have a career of some sort. This has to be one of the most idiotic pieces I have ever seen.

Yeah, professional women get divorced more often. Because they CAN. How many unskilled women are trapped in horrible marriages because they will never be able to support themselves and their kids?

[Zensea]

30. Has anyone actually read the article clear through?

I kind of get the feeling they haven't.
I'm seeing a lot of knee jerk reactions that are completely predictable and are not really a response to the actual article. It bugs me no end to see liberals falling into the same sort of lack of comprehension as freepers ....

The article is reporting on a study.
The author may agree or may not.
He keeps it kind of open what he thinks actually.
Midway through he writes
"If a host of studies are to be believed, marrying these women is asking for trouble."
IF.
& he ends the article with this statement regarding studies in general --
"A word of caution, though: As with any social scientific study, it's important not to confuse correlation with causation. (emphasis added) In other words, just because married folks are healthier than single people, it doesn't mean that marriage is causing the health gains. It could just be that healthier people are more likely to be married."

I will say the general tone of the article is designed to get a rise out of people & it certainly looks like it has succeeded.

[Marie26]

38. The author is not reporting

He is editorializing & stringing together numerous studies & ancedotes & conjectures to support his theory that men should steer clear of "career girls" - meaning, apparantly, any woman w/a college education or a job. He throws that sentence in at the end as a yadda yadda don't sue me disclaimer. But it is very clear what this author's POV is & he really makes no attempt to disguise it. Forbes apparantly never even stopped to consider that a good portion of their readers probably are career businesswomen.

[Gormy Cuss]

Absolutely. There is precious little in the way of direct citation

The whole article reads like this guy is cherry-picking results to defend his contention that women who have careers are risky business.

The primary journal sourced doesn't have so much as an abstract available and it's difficult to judge what the findings were nor what limitations there are to the data.

[sarge43]

39. I can't speak for the others, but I did read it through and I was

commenting upon the study. It seems, mmmm, biased.

[pitohui]

43. i read it also

anyone who read the whole thing can see the spin, a few weasel words at the end doesn't excuse anything

imagine a similar article called telling people not to marry a black person and throwing out endless studies, such an article could be constructed, such studies could be found, but it would be pretty clear even to the clueless the purpose of the article was to stir up hate and to keep black people from being able to improve their circumstances

sexism too is real and the same tricks are played, it's just that sexism grows more socially acceptable every day

[Zensea]

52. I agree it is biased But

I don't think there's any doubt that corporate culture causes a break up of community and the ties that bind people together or that corporate culture with its emphasis on loyalty to the corporation over the past 50 years at least in America has created an uprootedness of the populace.
This article describes a subset of that phenomenon.
Its sexism is its focus and its take on the overall phenomenon in that it doesn't look at the whole picture.

[Zensea]

45. Sure does

but it might also be true statistically speaking.
The individual examples that everyone provides in this thread are just that, individual examples.

[NashVegas]

72. "it's important not to confuse correlation with causation"

Thank you!

When I embarked on my career 20 years ago, I knew my career was #1 priority, and I knew it was a career that would be very difficult to flourish (you have to be highly mobile for relatively little pay, early in) in if I had a husband and kids. So I decided against a husband and kids. There were also a host of other reasons why I didn't want a family.

We want our great careers and our terrific families, too. But I don't believe we can be great at both.

[Finder]

97. You sound very rational...

and not subject to society's pressures. Too many women try to do both and end up unhappy. These days it is a bit easier than 20 years ago with the internet and such for some careers.

Still, the compromise is demanded more from the woman than the man for those who want to raise a family.

[NashVegas]

120. Overly Rational

Had I been more emotionally healthy when the decision was made, it may have been something entirely different.

Some women can make more money than their husbands. In that case, nothing wrong with hubby considering to be an at-home parent. Some men might think that demeaning, but in that case they should perhaps demonstrate a little more ambition if they want to be the prime bread-winner.

If we are to apply Darwin to gender roles, we must not forget to remember the key part of the theory has to do with adaptation.

[BeTheChange]

86. No..

because it's infinately easier to jump to conclusions and illformed opinions. Post something like this on a) Christians b) Homosexuality c) Abortion or d) "Gender" issues (but only when the focus is generalizations about women.. all men are chauvenist assholes, remember?)

And you will have a slew of people pop out of the woodwork to freak the fuck out without even objectively identifying the point of the article in the first place.

It's so predictable that I click on these threads just to see how outrageously, stubbornly and retardedly indignant people get. It's good to remember that there are broad brush/ closeminded people on both sides of literally every issue.

[Marie26]

184. Have you read the article?

In your opinion, what is the point of this article? IMO, the point is pretty clear, from the title on.

[Sequoia]

108. Then you didn't read between the lines.

[Finder]

31. The article is objective...

and is based on studies by social scientists. Unfortunately it does not offer any possible solutions except the headline.

Personally, I think the success of any marriage depends on why the individuals chose to marry in the first place.

[pitohui]

41. the article is not objective

it's all in the spin

everyone knows who is paying attention that successful men are more likely to cheat, get divorced and do the trade-in for a younger model, and no successful man cleans his own toilet...but is any article published saying, "women: don't marry a career man?"

the phrase "career man" doesn't even sound natural to the ear, we are completely indoctrinated in this idea that women cannot have the equal freedom to divorce or not divorce, cheat or not cheat, clean or not clean, that virtually every successful man takes as his birthright

why do we even automatically assume that having the choice to divorce if unhappy is bad? why do we even assume it's better to do the 1.9 hours of extra housework a week than not to do it? these are silly assumptions...no one is going to notice that missing 1.9 hours/week of housework

[Finder]

50. Well accusing all successful men of being cheats is just as bad...

as broadbrushing all "career women" which I do not think the body of the article stated. The headline was definitely intended to get a reaction though.

The posters who point out that the higher figures for career women divorcing is probably based on the fact they have the means and support whereas other women do not is an important point to consider.

[pitohui]

182. reading for comprehension is always a good thing

it is indisputable that successful men are more likely to cheat, i didn't say "all," you put the word "all" in my mouth and i don't appreciate it

mischaracterizing what i said and putting it in your subject line is not honest discussion

you seem to agree w. my point -- which is that people who have more options have more options -- so why get on my case about it?

[Finder]

208. Sorry if you thought I was getting on your case...not my intention.n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

89. The 'article' is subjective and mentions studies without full citation

It's flat out an opinion piece.

I agree with your assertion that the success of a marriage is in part linked to why individuals choose to marry as well as other factors such as level of maturity of both partners and a fundamental meeting of the minds on issues such as raising children.

[IdaBriggs]

33. Bwa Ha Ha! Quick, I'm going to find my husband, and tell him he's unhappy!

In order to *save* my marriage, I will now run to the University where I got my degree, and *BEG THEM* to take it back! Then I will fly to my employer, tell them I can only work 34 hours a week, and DEMAND a pay reduction!

That ought to fix things, right? :sarcasm:

Back in the land of reality, my (college educated) husband *LOVES* the fact I'm a "career girl" who brings home "more than $30K a year" and work more than 35 hours a week outside the home, AND that I have a university-level education. In fact, when I'm between projects, he gets UNHAPPY because he *LOVES* the fact I make good money when I work.

My mother taught me a long time ago that a GOOD WIFE makes sure she can take care of herself and her family because "you never know what the future might bring." Am I supposed to be stupid and helpless, lose our home, and have my children starve if my husband suffers an accident and can't work while he's hospitalized? Or what if (God forbid) he should get sick? Should we lose everything because I couldn't be bothered to get a marketable skill??? I wouldn't want to marry a man who would *want* someone like that -- but then again, I'm smart, and I picked a guy who likes smart women!

We're both happy, successful people, and I think we know what we want out of life more than the moron social scientists who came up with these stats -- I wonder if they're going to do follow-up? Remember that anti-Feminist woman a few years back whose husband traded her in for a younger model? Maybe they should check with her! :)

This article must be someone's idea of a joke. :eyes:

[Lerkfish]

34. hmm. someone should tell my wife of 19 years, our son and our happy

marriage. I guess we're doing something wrong.

[pitohui]

36. people with more options have...more options

wow, hot news flash

sure, a woman who can support herself and doesn't have to be afraid of being abandoned can divorce, cheat, and not vacuum the carpet

the same is true of successful men, who have been getting multiple divorces, cheating, and not vacuuming the carpet from time out of mind

[undeterred]

40. Women: Don't marry men who write for Forbes (or read it)

:bounce:

[grace0418]

219. Best response to an idiotic article.

Thank you! LOL!

[stop the bleeding]

42. I am a man with a career woman - we are and have been very happy together

sexist bullshit

[Gormy Cuss]

44. "Gals: Word of Advice. Don't marry career men"

Do you suppose we'll ever see such an article?

[Finder]

57. Well that is common sense...lol...

I bet the divorce rate for those who marry men without ambition is a hell of a lot higher than the studies in the article.

[Generic Other]

47. But hell that income about makes up for all our flaws! Ha Ha

Ask my husband.

[silverweb]

49. Bullshit.

What a misogynistic asshole this guy is. Ditto for all those like him.

:puke: on them!

[xchrom]

51. ok -- if blue staters have lower rates of divorce and higher rates

of folk with college degrees -- then something is fishy with the original study.

the ONLY conclusion you can draw from this -- is that women with financial options are less willing to settle for the worst option.

prhaps some of those backwards red staters should consider -- returning to school and WORKING HARD to be deserving of their partners?

as is evidensed here on du -- lots of liberal women are happy with their liberal men and vise verse.

i just have my own ideas about WHO this article is putting on notice -- and it's not what the author is intending.

[BlooInBloo]

53. If ya wanna be happy for the rest of your life....

... never make a ca-reer woman your wife!

So from my personal point of view,
Get a jobless girl to marry you!

:rofl:

[elehhhhna]

54. HAHAHA! MY HUBS LOVED staying home w/ our babies when

I made 6 figs.

[Kickoutthejams23]

56. $30 grand a year.... setting that bar a little low?

This article is beyond stupid. Gee would I rather have an smart independent woman who has actual interests and makes money or a woman whose goal in life is sloth.... hmmmm..... I'll get back to you on that one. Actually the article is weird. The most career oriented woman I have ever met were artists and they made nowhere near 30k a year while woman working the 9 to 5 middle management gig making in the mid fifties seemed pleased with their job but certainly not some me first type. I think they writer is an insecure nut playing with outmoded stereotypes. Working woman are ubiquitous now. Let me check my calender and make sure it isn't 1975

[Finder]

61. Geesh, women who choose not to have a career are not "sloths"...

and I am sure that is not what you meant. I don't think the author of the article is agreeing with the studies since there are a few disclaimers in the article itself.

[AngryAmish]

64. How about a man who chooses not to have a career

Would he be a sloth? Married, kids, but quits because he doesn't like to work anymore. Would that be considered slothful?

[Finder]

78. Unless he plans to cook, clean, raise the kids...then he would be...

a loser.IMO

[Kickoutthejams23]

74. I was referring more to the author of the studies

There are some woman (and men) who are sloths. I didn't mean to imply (though re-reading my verbiage I clearly did) that stay at home mom's are sloths. (My opinion of stay at home unemployed dads is not politically correct or progressive enough to post)

[BeTheChange]

96. Of course they are.. cause nobody could get satisfaction w/o the mighty...

dollar bill, ya'll. So, if a women doesnt work nowadays she is a lazy sloth. Didnt you get the memo?

Fuck doing something that means something if it doesnt fit into the preapproved list of acceptably nonsloth- like careers. Fast track yourself to the corporate ladder and forget about all of the parts of you that weren't meant to climb it in the first place. Forget about caring for your kids, or even raising them in most cases.. forget about.. *gasp* caring for your husband. Screw him, who does he think you are anyway? A maid? His mother? You are so much more then a wife, a mother.. You have a CAREER. Your priorities are obviously firmly in place. Let's all just worry about making as much money as we can and being as "self sufficient" as possible so we don't have to depend on anyone else and when the going gets tough we dont have to deal with that shit.. lets just leave.. cause Jim in the next cubicle is looking kinda cute anyway.. and he is so charming during those long lunches youve been taking together. Cause that is what it all really comes to down to. It's a super healthy way to live and be in a marriage, always waiting to assert that independence you have worked so hard to preserve and cultivate. Cause you can just leave that sorry ass husband who expects you to clean the house.. or spend more time with lil johnny.

That is definately better then being a "nonworking", stay at home mother aka lazy sloth.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

164. Do you think that cuts both ways?

Are you as scathing of men who decide to devote themselves to careers rather than housework or childcare?

I don't think there's anything wrong with a couple deciding that the man is going to work full time to support both of them financially while the woman is the homemaker, but nor do I think there's anything particularly admirable about that arrangement compared with others.

[BeTheChange]

181. Umm..

men werent the topic of the post I made or the one I responded to.

I dont think much of ANYONE (gender is irrelevant) who "devotes" themselves to a career at the detriment of their marriage, their children or themselves. I'm not enamored, amused or impressed with the trappings of success. Because they are just that. Traps. Traps that distract us from things in life that actually mean something.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

58. How interesting

of course, I don't meet their money criteria, but other than that--my mother was forced into a career after her first marriage ended in divorce. She remarried and she and her second husband (a high school dropout who worked in management at a store)lived a very happy life together. The fact that she had a steady income allowed him to break away from the store and start his own business, which was very successful and rewarding to him. They always spent their time off from work together, and there was never a thought of either of them cheating or carrying on with someone else. And they were making a lot more than $30K. They only parted when he died in 2004.

[Sequoia]

59. Wrong! It's a pretty woman.

If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
A pretty woman makes her husband look small
And very often causes his downfall
As soon as he married her and then she starts
To do the things that will break his heart
But if you make an ugly woman your wife
A-you'll be happy for the rest of your life
An ug-a-ly woman cooks meals on time
And she'll always give you peace of mind
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Don't let your friends say you have no taste
Go ahead and marry anyway
Though her face is ugly, her eyes don't match
Take it from me, she's a better catch
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

Say man!
Hey baby!
I saw your wife the other day!
Yeah?
Yeah, an' she's ug-leeee!
Yeah, she's ugly, but she sure can cook, baby!
Yeah, alright!
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life
Never make a pretty woman your wife
So for my personal point of view
Get an ugly girl to marry you

by Jimmy Soul

[catabryna]

60. I was waiting for this!

:rofl:

It was bound to happen!

[BlooInBloo]

71. heeheehee! I beat ya! #53

[Sequoia]

80. Too quick for me I guess.

I know of a very beautiful woman who got married and at the reception her husband arranged for a band to play this song. Everyone laughed although the bride was a little upset at first but then thought it was funny too.

[tigereye]

62. oh for heaven's sake

who funded this study? Rick Santorum? What a lot of horse-shit.

[newportdadde]

67. These studies are bizzare, things like marriage are so subjective.

I just don't see how these studies are worth anything. We all look for different things, men and women.

Personally I think the one thing that can help a marriage is if both people have similar financial goals. Money can cause so many issues in a marriage if the two of you are close on how you feel about money whatever that may be your half way there.

[Finder]

82. How true...

Is it funny how so many couples do not even discuss these goals prior to marriage.

[boolean]

68. High school dropout minding a cash register??????

That is unbelievably condescending.

[Blaukraut]

83. very condescending

So are a lot of responses in this thread, for that matter. I've seen women who choose to stay home called sloths, unintelligent, lazy, etc.
In our effort to stand up for career women, which is a valiant effort, we have managed to dismiss and malign those women who do not have careers for whatever reason that may be.
Women who were fortunate to be able to attend university and have careers should not be made to feel guilty for enjoying that career, just as women who did not take the career route, should not be made to feel stupid, somehow of lesser worth than their working peers.
The bottom line remains this; Choose a partner who will make you happy. Period.

[Finder]

88. I don't think that was the intention of the poster...

but I agree on both your points.

[Blaukraut]

94. probably not, you're right

but it was a good place to point out that in our effort to prove the author/article wrong, some of us veered into the same condescending attitude.

[Marie26]

95. What a choice

High school dropout minding a cash register or marriage-wreaking career woman. What's a guy to do? He basically seems to feel contempt for women in general.

[NC_Nurse]

77. I was a homemaker for a long time...

kicked my first to the curb because we didn't get along and I got no respect, plus he was NEVER home.
Now I'm a career woman, get along fine with my current spouse. I also am the primary breadwinner - if you mean I make more $. So what?

I call BULLSHIT.

[Catchawave]

87. I married the military man....

he and our kids and other military wives were my career!

[ComerPerro]

92. Yeah, its called stress. Compare the stress levels of a career woman

with those of a housewife who drinks and swallows Xanax all day.

Who do you think will be "happier"?

[Blaukraut]

98. Oh come on

So housewives drink and swallow Xanax all day? Next thing they'll be sitting on their sofas, all fat and in a mumu, watching soaps and eating bonbons :eyes:

[ComerPerro]

100. Have you ever really, really looked at Laura Bush?

[stepnw1f]

102. lol

she really is trophy.

[sarge43]

121. A trophy?

A trophy bride would have been an East Coast WASP princess.

[Blaukraut]

103. Laura Bush doesn't equate the average homemaker

Besides, I suspect Laura's alleged drinking and drug use stem from depression and unhappiness. Those transcend all economic barriers and can affect working women as well as stay-at-home ones.

[ComerPerro]

105. Admit it. Being a housewife is a luxury not many can afford

And besides, the article this thread mentioned played off stereotypes. So why can't I?

[Blaukraut]

111. Luxury? No. Not many can afford it? True.

Having been both homemaker and career woman, I can safely say that being a homemaker is no luxury. Neither is being a career woman, but it's infinitely more rewarding.
Yes, the article plays on stereotypes, and in reaction to it, DU'ers did, too.
We should not demonize or stereotype either group. As to whom to choose as partner; the person who is compatible and makes you happy. Career or no career. Of course economic standing is a consideration, especially if two incomes are needed to attain the standard of living one would like, but again, those are subjective choices.

[ComerPerro]

119. No, I got news for you. It was a choice, and it was a luxury

Consider yourself fortunate that your husband made enough money for you all to live on one income, because many people can't.

[Blaukraut]

128. Ok, newsflash

When I stayed home, we were barely scraping by. My husband was in the Air Force, not very high in rank yet, and we had two little kids. Our VCR was in the pawnshop every payday, so we could buy diapers. Some might wonder why I wasn't working to help out. We were stationed in places where jobs were very difficult to find, especially those that were part time. The pay would have been just enough to pay for day care and extra expenses incurred with another job. My husband worked swing- and mid shifts, which also made it impossible for me to work.
So don't tell me about how fortunate we were, and what a luxury it was.
Now we're all set - both of us managed to have careers despite the hardships along the way, but I will never forget what it took, and I will always appreciate the sacrifices that stay-at-home moms/dads have to make.

[ComerPerro]

141. sounds to me like you were unemployed

which, last time I checked, is dramatically different than being "a homemaker who chooses to stay at home with the kids".

Defend the rich if you want, but they won't stick up for you.

[K8-EEE]

129. I Agree, And I'm A Stay At Home Mom -- It's A Luxury!!

It absolutely is -- the first five years I did do both and I found it very stressful although I loved my job before I had the kids, by its nature (TV production) it involved so many hours. Sometimes I would leave before the baby was awake and come home after she was asleep.

The ONLY reason I've been able to even make that choice is because my hub has a union job with good health care benefits. Otherwise I would proably have left my production job for more regular hours just so the kids would be covered health care wise.

I can't tell you how many of my friends have said they wish they could stay home but to do so would put their family at risk financially and health wise.

And all their kids end up hanging over my house, which is fine with me....I do think I'm very lucky, but it's a different lifestyle for sure with one income. Although now that I clean my own house, wash my own car, don't pay childcare, commuting or work clothes & lunches etc. I come out almost the same! If you have to pay somebody to do all that stuff your money is just flying out the window, and of course many people cannot afford to pay for the services and even have to work two jobs.

My hat's off to single working parents. They are truly the hardest working people on earth!!

[REP]

122. Doing Housework All Day a Luxury? Kill Me Now.

Housewifery - cooking, cleaning, doing endless mindless chores that really don't amount to a hill of beans but need to be done - is not a fulfilling career for most. Some may enjoy it, but really - how creative is scrubbing the toilet? How rewarding is vacuuming?

Being able to not work and devote oneself to something like writing, painting, volunteering, gardening ... these are luxuries that not many can afford.

[guinivere]

167. Luxury?? Are you out of your mind?

Cleaning and cooking and laundry and errands. Clean the place only to have the family make a freakin mess again. It's mindless, thanksless WORK.

Luxury is a maid and a chef.

[Sequoia]

217. That's why the "Career Woman" that I am just lets my house stay dirty.

I thought I'd clean it this summer but since I stay in all day at work would rather enjoy being outside while the sun still shines.

Winter...too rainy so I can't move out my junk to clean the kithcen. Stuff just piles up. Oh well. Someday. I hate it really, makes me feel so disorganized. Oh well, just pop a brew and watch TV. Whatever. I work all day and just want to relax. If I'm a CW it's a laugh since I don't come near the $30,000 mark.

[etherealtruth]

125. Yeah, all those lazy substance abusing "stay at home" moms

:sarcasm:

I've done both ... staying at home raising several small children was infinitely more challenging/demanding overall than any job I ever held (well worth it ... but still difficult to do well)

[Cleita]

107. Forbes magazine? Give me a break! How long is it before

they bring out the burqas?

I'll tell you something. If I struggled through college, medical school, an internship and residency to become a doctor, I wouldn't sit back and take a secondary bread winner role when I got married. Many women don't want children because their careers are important to them and they know they probably wouldn't be able to spend the time with them that they should.

Also, a society that gives women flex time during her child bearing years and flex times to both parents during child rearing years would go a long way to keeping families together better. It has nothing to do with keeping an unpaid domestic servant/wife in the home to make marriages work.

That being said, there are women who are content in the traditional role of wife and mother, but if hubby can't hold down a job and provide, well she has to go to work to put food on the table and pay the mortgage. I can certainly see a divorce in this woman's future and her desire to become a professional because it pays better.

[REP]

109. They Say This Like It's A Bad Thing

Yes, women who are college-educated and have meaningful careers are less likely to have children and are more likely to get out of a bad marriage (they can afford to more easily than a stay-at-home mother with no job or a low-paying one). What's wrong with that?

[leesa]

116. Women are more likely to be virtual prisoners when men are the primary

breadwinners. They better be "happy" with their lot, because a divorce would leave them with a low paying job, maybe no skills or work history. They can't affort to lose that man, does that make them "happier"?

[moc]

117. IMO, it's only a problem if the man married to the career woman is a jerk.

FWIW, I'm a career woman (tenured professor), and my husband and I celebrated 16 very happy years just last week.

The problem comes in when a man married to a career woman expects her to carry the weight of managing the household and family. I know one couple in particular where the husband expects the house always to be clean, dinner on the table at 6pm sharp, etc, but he doesn't do anything to help clean, prepare meals or anything.

[spooky3]

146. I kept waiting for someone to say what you did!

Many men in those marriages to "career women" that end in divorce have not adapted to the realities that have existed for decades now, which is that it is unfair to expect a wife who works just as many hours as the husband to do more than half of the work at home, with kids, etc. They enjoy the benefits of the wife's working (primarily the take home pay) but they aren't willing to "pay the costs." After years of either being overloaded with work or endless promises of change that never are fully carried out behaviorally, some women get sick of it and leave--just as men would do if the shoe was on the other foot.

That is a BIG factor in addition to the other ones that other posters have raised (such as that women with reasonable salaries have more freedom to leave if badly treated or desperately unhappy.

[REP]

118. Women Who Have Choices ... Make Other Choices

More about the not having chilfren or not being happy being mothers:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060819.MOMMIES19/TPStory/?query=Motherhood+is+Boring+

Motherhood is boring

Or at least that's what a new wave of outspoken mothers think. As
REBECCA ECKLER reports, these women find kid's birthday parties deadly,
watching Barney tedious. And they aren't afraid to share the dirty
secret of parenting -- Mother Love doesn't always conquer all
REBECCA ECKLER

I would do anything to not go to the playground," Cara says. "I am
bored to tears in playgrounds."

The mother of two children under the age of 10, the 39-year-old Calgary
lawyer also hates kids' birthday parties and took only three months of
maternity leave -- both times. She now has a live-in nanny who she says
"basically raises my kids."

Cara is not alone. American expatriate Helen Kirwan-Taylor recently
admitted in Britain's Daily Mail that her children "bore her to death."
In her new book, Mommies Who Drink, U.S. actress Brett Paesel confesses
she would rather hit happy hour with her friends than have "fun with
felt." And the blogosphere is exploding with posts from mothers telling
the dirty truth that motherhood is, well, mind-numbing.

--

Even the most devoted person on earth will be bored having no one to talk to and nothing but endless rounds of tedious, mindless, repetitive chores to look forward to, no matter how much they love their children. Woman does not equal mother, and for women who find themselves nagged into it when they have doubts, it can be a prison.

[Call Me Wesley]

126. I married a career woman,

and it keeps - besides the double income - the horizon of our both environments wide open. There is no real routine that settles in, but a constant exchange of different approaches; and therefore, no boredom. And I do believe that it's a liberating feeling when you know that neither you, your wife or (in our case) our cat are going to starve, no matter what.

May the social scientists who thought of this study live happily in Stepford.

[Heidi]

196. .

:*

[tblue37]

127. Because she has real options, a career

woman is less likely to put up with a mate's bullsh*t.

[DireStrike]

130. What if I wanted to be a house-husband? -nt-

[BooScout]

131. What a crock of shit....

Why even bother to discuss what a load of crap this study and article is? As a career woman it ain't worth my time.

[Recursion]

133. Jesus F. Christ

Shades of Handmaid's Tale... that's the kind of crap that starts it: women are wombs that just happen to have brains attached to them, and the only way anyone can ever be happy is the continuing and unending act of biological reproduction.

I also loved how couples not having children was a "problem" that is even "more severe" in couples with educated women. Like the assumption is any couple without children has failed in life or something.

[survivor999]

Yup, sexist bullshit!

[sofa king]

134. Gals: A word of advice:

Marry pretty guys or ugly ones. Short ones or tall ones. Blondes or brunettes. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a guy who reads Forbes magazine.

Why? Because they're assholes. You run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. Assholes are more likely to get divorced, more likely to sexually isolate you, more likely to want children you can't afford and don't have time for and expect you to do all the parenting while he takes his secretary to Hawaii on "business."

To be clear, we're not talking about some pierced and tattooed she-male smoking Camels behind the desk at the used CD store. For our purposes an "asshole" is usually a white guy with a small dick, an MBA and a faked resume, who thinks that reading Forbes magazine will somehow give him insight into the corrupt web of deception his patriarchal society has created for itself.

[Marie26]

140. Too true.

:rofl:

[thefuzz811]

142. Honestly I would stay at home if my wife made more money.

I can cook, clean, and am better with children, than most of the women I've dated. Being a Housedad wouldn't bother me. I acknowledge that it would have frustrating points, but the rewards from spending time with your family couldn't be matched. I would have no problem with my partner making more than me. If her skills and time is more valuable, I would let her pursue and back any endeavor that she saw fit. My dad is in that situation right now. He is mentally and physically disabled. He makes 1/4 of what my mom makes. He cooks, cleans, and does the house work. He isn't happy with being at the house all the time, but he is constrained by his disabilities. I really commend my mother, because she pursued a career that saved our family in the long run. She realized that my dads health was failing, so she became a registered nurse. She had 5 badass kids, a part time job, full time school and a sick husband to deal with. She is a career woman, and my hero.

[The Backlash Cometh]

143. My husband will disagree with you.

I may have been a career woman, but stayed at home due to unforeseen circumstances. So technically, I've been a stay at home who has at least once been told by a white service man to GET A JOB! Believe me, I'm thrilled that I've experienced everything there was to experience in my children's life, but my husband would far wish that I spent some time in a money making career. So would I, but where to find one in this cow town?

Happiness is where you find it. Sometimes I think God gave me a gift by clipping my wings. I just hope he didn't ground me forever.

[Nikki Stone 1]

144. Isn't this the magazine that Bono bought into?

nt

[Hepburn]

149. Yeah....

....that's why I went to law school ~~ to snag a husband and to be sure and not be able to take care of myself.

What a total LOAD of crap that article is....:mad:

[skids]

150. Career women: look on the bright side of this...

...asinine Forbes readers will avoid you in droves, and it'll be easier to find a real man.

Oh, BTW, anyone need a house husband? :evilgrin:

[Misunderestimator]

151. A career "girl"! And defined as no more than 35 hours and $30K !!

So, basically, they advise marrying a woman without a college education who doesn't work at all or who has only a part-time job (and who doesn't mind being married to an asshole.)

Yeah... whatthefuckever. :rofl:

[Finder]

153. I thought the 30k was a bit silly...

since that would be part time work rather than a "career" in most cases. Depends what region I imagine.

[1monster]

154. Poor, poor babies!!!!

So men are more likely to get sick if their wives are at work instead of home monitoring hubby's temp.

The fact of the matter is that married men live longer than single men, but married women do not live as long as single women. So while the wife is looking after hubby's health, she doen't have the time to look after her own. Who does the same for her?

You are more likely to fall ill.
A 2001 study found that having a wife who works less than 40 hours a week has no impact on your health, but having a wife who works more than 40 hours a week has "substantial, statistically significant, negative effects on changes in her husband's health over that time span." The author of another study summarizes that "wives working longer hours not do not have adequate time to monitor their husband's health and healthy behavior, to manage their husband's emotional well-being or buffer his workplace stress."

Sources: "It's About Time and Gender: Spousal Employment and Health," Ross M. Stolzenberg, American Journal of Sociology, July, 2001; "Marriage, Divorce and the Work and Earnings Careers of Spouses," Lee A. Lillard, Linda J. Waite, University of Michigan, Michigan Retirement Research Center, Working Papers, April, 2000.

[rosesaylavee]

156. OK. First of all.

>Why the hell is the reader assumed to be male? Do only males read Forbe's? Really. Is Forbe's like Cosmo for men? Maybe I am that out of step with the times.

>Secondly. The assumption that seems to run throughout is that women make or break the marriage all by themselves. What kind of irresponsible Peter Pan crap is that?

>Thirdly. #9 slays me. Why do these husbands need to have someone other than themselves decide if they are well or not?

>Fourthly. Where is the report on responsible individuals who marry? If this is the "norm", why are the fundies so concerned that gays are ruining marriage. It's already broke.

This bothers me as much if not more than the stereotype-laden stories of women who need to be 'kept' by their man and 'taken care of'. Why did I think that by 2006, the ridiculous and damaging behavior towards women in general I witnessed at the start of the women's movement would be considered quaint and silly by now. (Sigh.)

7. You'll be unhappy if she makes more than you.
You aren't going to like it if she makes more than you do: "Married men's well-being is significantly lower when married women's proportional contributions to the total family income are increased

8. She will be unhappy if she makes more than you.
According to the authors of a controversial 2006 study: "American wives, even wives who hold more feminist views about working women and the division of household tasks, are typically happier when their husband earns 68% or more of the household income." Reason? "Husbands who are successful breadwinners probably give their wives the opportunity to make more choices about work and family--e.g., working part-time, staying home, or pursuing a meaningful but not particularly remunerative job."

9. You are more likely to fall ill.
A 2001 study found that having a wife who works less than 40 hours a week has no impact on your health, but having a wife who works more than 40 hours a week has "substantial, statistically significant, negative effects on changes in her husband's health over that time span." The author of another study summarizes that "wives working longer hours not do not have adequate time to monitor their husband's health and healthy behavior, to manage their husband's emotional well-being or buffer his workplace stress."

[nicknameless]

157. Your link --> "File not found" (???)

:)

[Jim Lane]

160. Great article!

I hope a lot of men read this and act accordingly in deciding which women to pursue. That will leave a wider selection of intelligent, independent career women for those of us who appreciate them.

And, as amitten said (post #8), the women are better off, too, because you don't want to get involved with those guys anyway.

[Horse with no Name]

161. Sounds to me like whoever burned his ass

did a good thing for herself.

[KamaAina]

162. Don't Read Forbes

unless you want to fill your head with the print equivalent of Faux. :puke:

[Donald Ian Rankin]

163. I find it telling

that they list "less likely to have children" along with "more likely to get divorced", "more likely to cheat" and "more likely to be unhappy about it".

I also find it telling that they ignore the - very obvious - point that a man who marries a career woman is going to have a far higher joint income than one who marries one who stays at home and relies on him to support her financially.

And I would be interested to know what the equivalent statistics about marrying more and less career-orientated men were.

[Iniquitous Bunny]

165. This is so damned dumb on many levels.

I was a SAHM for years. I wanted a career, but when it was time for me to do what I needed to do to re-establish myself, I received little support from my former spouse. He was fine with the concept of "extra money", not fine with understanding I was an intelligent, ambitious person as well. Hence, we are no longer married. I can't imagine the man I'm currently in a relationship with EVER behaving this way.

Perhaps this advice would be good for sexist assholes who make a ton of money. :eyes:

[Broken_Hero]

166. What a pantload...

I'm male, and my wife earns a lot more money than I do, she is the bread winner, and she has a booming career...:) I finally found me a sugar momma!...just kiddin...:rofl:

I support her in everything she does, and I am Mr. Mom...I cook, yard work, house repairs, clean, do bills, grocery shop, and I'm a substitute teacher. My wife was the first, and only financially responsible woman I ever came across during my dating career, and if she wants to earn more money than me...I am not going to hold her back at all :) As a matter of fact, I don't think anybody can hold her back(heaven forbid, if anybody did, whew)...

Its a weird role reversal, with its pros/cons, but its how life is at the moment, and I don't find anything wrong with it in the least bit.

[cyberpj]

168. UPDATE: Disgusting Misogynistic Forbes Article Taken Down!

It's true! A tipster wrote in to let me know! Apparently the people at Forbes actually don't condone disgusting misogynistic articles! They took down BOTH of them, plus the execrable slideshow! Hooray, hooray!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eat-the-press/2006/08/23/update-disgusting-misogy_e_27874.html

[rosesaylavee]

170. Too late. Forbes will always be

synonymous with this loathsome, stupid article in my mind.

[IsIt1984Yet]

169. Fuck this guy. I make enough for him not to marry me TWICE.

Loser.

[Orangepeel]

171. Damn, this thread makes me appreciate my husband.

Both because I don't think it ever would have occured to him not to marry a "career woman," but because we seem to be unusually compatible when it comes to money.


Anyway, I thought dinosaurs that think like this article were mostly extinct by now.

[nicknameless]

172. Hehehe .......... about the author

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Noer

[Marie26]

175. His other article is even worse

This loser wrote another article for Forbes, in which he compared wives and "whores" for their economic value. I kid you not.

"Wife or whore?

The choice is that simple. At least according to economists Lena Edlund and Evelyn Korn, it is.

The two well-respected economists created a minor stir in academic circles a few years back when they published "A Theory of Prostitution" in the Journal of Political Economy. The paper was remarkable not only for being accepted by a major journal but also because it considered wives and whores as economic "goods" that can be substituted for each other. Men buy, women sell.

Wives, in truth, are superior to whores in the economist's sense of being a good whose consumption increases as income rises--like fine wine. This may explain why prostitution is less common in wealthier countries. But the implication remains that wives and whores are--if not exactly like Coke and Pepsi--something akin to champagne and beer. The same sort of thing.
...
In particular, the assumption that there is no "third way" between wife and whore is problematic, if not outright offensive: "The third alternative, working in a regular job but not marrying, can be ruled out, since we assume that the only downside of marriage for a woman is the forgone opportunity for prostitution."

Still, the economic analysis of marriage explains one age-old phenomenon: gold digging.

"In particular, does our analysis justify the popular belief that more beautiful, charming and talented women tend to marry wealthier and more successful men?" wrote Becker. His answer: "A positive sorting of nonmarket traits with nonhuman wealth always, and with earnings power, usually, maximizes commodity output over all marriages."

Hyperlink: Get information on working girl wages through the ages

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:RbIVb6Rv-VcJ:www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/economics-prostitution-marriage_cx_mn_money06_0214prostitution.html+&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1

This article has also been removed from Forbes website, thankfully. How did this kind of misogynistic crap end up in a major business publication? Just UGH. It's like a time-warp back to the 1970's.

[nicknameless]

178. Holy excrement ...

The fact that Noer could have spewed out such misogynistic bile and still retained his job at Forbes is certainly telling.

Didn't forums go ballistic over his wives/whores piece?
Wonder if Forbes will keep him on?

The guy is beyond just a 1970s throwback; he's deranged.


x(

[izzybeans]

176. AS long as YOU men PULL YOUR WEIGHT at home

your marriage will be fine. But when your wife comes home from a long day of work don't expect a beer and a blow job without some reciprocation.

I'd ask the not-so-well-read at Forbes to look up the words "interaction variable" and read the book "The Second Shift" by Arlie Russell Hochschild. They'll find that working women have carried the burden of a double shift in a household where the adult male acts like a 5 year old child. It doesn't take social science to do the math with that one.

But they got it half right: hey pater familias, yeah I'm talking to you. Marry a woman who wants to live in the home and treat you like a child. You can operate your pater potestas, in public at least, unbridled in that situation. She'll love it and your marriage will endure. You can botox permanent smiles and carve out cute little dimples.

[Fountain79]

177. Did anyone notice that this is present...

as a point/counterpoint article?

http://www.forbes.com/home/2006/08/23/Marriage-Careers-Divorce_cx_mn_land.html

[Initech]

179. Steve Forbes = rich white conservative asshole

[DemoTex]

180. B/S. My wife has a PhD from Ga Tech and is a partner in a $10M+ business.

We have been married 32 years and are happy as clams.

[Mabel Dodge]

183. I'm a "career girl"

I'm also happily married for 22 years. We don't have children, but that has more to do with over population than with having a career.

[treestar]

186. I have a career

And don't have a husband, but I don't see that as a "punishment" for having a career. Just never having met the right guy.

[treestar]

185. Will they never give up on this crap?

I thought 911 had stopped that (along with the threat you were more likely to be killed by terrorists than to find a man who loved you and who you loved and marry him).

[Generic Brad]

190. And don't you go swimming with bow legged women

That almost makes more sense than the author of the Forbes article. What a crock of crap.

[Kerrytravelers]

191. At times, I've made more. At times, Mr. kt has.

I've never felt forced to work. I've never forced him to work. But someone has to! We both want to contribute to our family. Right now, it makes sense for both of us to work. But we don't out ourselves out there for others to judge. And we resent the fact that Frobes felt the need to judge people.

When I told Mr. kt about this article, his response makes me proud: Typical reich wing chauvinistic inequality. That's a real man. Not some knuckle dragging asshole that want me barefoot and pregnant at his command.

[misternormal]

193. I hope you ran like hell...

... after posting an article like this...

I have no problem being in a relationship with a woman that makes more money than I do... I am emough of a man to stand behind her in anything that she wishes to do, and hope that she would appreciate me there. :headbang:

[kdpeters]

194. May this bastard spend a lifetime with the woman he deserves.

Doesn't sound like he wants a painter as much as a pet.

[NewJeffCT]

197. Having been married twice...

Once to a non-career woman, and now to a career woman, I can say that being married to a career woman is infinitely preferable.

That said, when I first met my now ex-wife, she was on track to become an elementary school teacher. But, after we got engaged, she seemed to give up on the idea of becoming a teacher, and instead worked part-time as a waitress at the local Hooters. (It was totally her idea - I was prepared to tap into my 401k to get money for her to finish her teaching degree!)

So, while I was working 70-80 hours per week (on salary) on a special project at my job, she was working maybe 20 hours a week. Despite this difference in hours, she still did no housework and barely did anything to help with her dog.

After the marriage went downhill, I went on a dating spree where I at least learned that - if I was to marry again - I would prefer somebody that either had a good career, or was starting out in a good career (I liked to joke that I dated half the single nurses in Connecticut between my marriages!)

And, luckily, I found the right woman a little more than a year after my divorce was finalized - she was funny and had 2 master's degrees and was clearly very focused on her career. So, while I currently make slightly more than my wife... she certainly has more long-term earnings potential than me. (she made a bit more than me last year, however.)

[Bosso 63]

198. Marriage is not a competition, it should be about cooperation.

Its about what works for the whole family, not who makes the most money. Each family is different,and the dynamics of each family will change. The idea that there is one a cookie cutter answer to who does what is simplistic. Magazines always need crap to fill their pages with, and the easiest thing in the world is to find some statistic, and state "this is how the family should be". Bullshit, the question is what works for you and yours.
The problem as I see it, is that we are a nation divided. One side wants or needs to be told what to do, and the other side wants the freedom to solve our own problems with the full range of opportunity and creativity that is available.
So to all the people who are in nontraditional relationships or roles, remember, they hate you for your freedom.

[rman]

199. I think the same is true for career men. nt

[GeorgeGist]

200. Gals: A word of advice...

Don't marry a man with a career.

[Avalux]

201. Wow! My interpretation:

"Women must play a secondary role to the man or else the marriage is doomed because an educated career woman will demand equality. She won't be completely dependent on the man, so if he treats her terribly, she has the means to leave instead of being stuck in a dysfunctional marriage. Can't have that - can't have the woman able to take care of herself."

Whomever wrote this piece of shit needs to get over their fragile little ego and quit promoting a meme designed to repress women. As a career woman, I can't imagine being subjugated to a man's dominance in a marriage. If that's not acceptable, sorry.

[IronLionZion]

202. HA! I will only marry a career woman

and she better not think about divorce or I'll take half of HER money and the house!

Seriously, I want the double income with no kids. We'll both be busy during the day and have nights and weekends all to ourselves. It will work if we make it work.

I have nothing against domestic goddesses, they are important but just not my type. My grandmothers and my mother are career women. I grew up around independent empowered women and don't know anything else.

On a related note, in all of my career I have always had female managers for some reason. Are most managers female?

[philosophie_en_rose]

205. Don't Marry Career Men, Ladies.

Studies have shown that men that work are 95% less likely to spend all day mowing the lawn, rubbing your feet, and developing their physique for your enjoyment. They are likely to expect you to care about their pursuits, when you should clearly not have to worry about anything that has nothing to do with you.

Men that work are even less likely to clean the house, care for the children, and cook your food. Now, shouldn't a working woman expect a comfortable home, when she returns from a hard day of work?


:sarcasm:

[OregonDem]

212. Did right-wingers do this study?

Since they been known to tell people who they can marry.

[julialnyc]

215. well I thought the number one reason for divorce was financial struggle

according to many other reports. So what on earth are we supposed to do? Go to work and risk our marriage, or don't work and risk our marriage. These reports are all a pile of garbage. Most people can take a shot on doing what's best for them.

[Sequoia]

216. Forbes' Women Problems

Note: Forbes deleted from its Web site the story discussed in this piece some time Wednesday afternoon. But the story has reappeared, posted alongside a rebuttal by Elizabeth Corcoran. The slide show referred to below is still down, but we've left the links in in case that reappears, too.]

The furious blog reaction to Michael Noer's Forbes piece, "Don't Marry Career Women," posted to the Web yesterday, makes the piece sound like an ugly example of "backlash" journalism. If you're not familiar with the genre, backlash stories are the kind feminists believe are 1) full of beans and 2) designed to keep women down. Here's the piece's beginning:

Guys … whatever you do, don't marry a woman with a career.

Why? Because if many social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having a rocky marriage. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found professional women are more likely to get divorced, more likely to cheat, less likely to have children, and, if they do have kids, they are more likely to be unhappy about it.

<SNIP>

http://www.slate.com/id/2148274 /

[TroglodyteScholar]

220. Loaded bullshit language...

"if many social scientists are to be believed".....


How many? 3? 5? This is the same "some have said..." bullshit that Fox News uses to present baseless knee-jerk opinion as well-thought-out expert opinion.

Not really surprised to find this in Forbes, tho. I mean...come on. Being surprised at this is like being surprised a Klansmen doesn't like black folks.

[Tsiyu]

221. Don't Marry a Guy Who Reads Forbes

"Gals: A word of advice. Marry one guy or twelve, any shape or size or all of them. Just, whatever you do, don't marry a guy with any copies of Forbes in his possession.

Why? Because if social scientists are to be believed, you run a higher risk of having to disentangle yourelf from a self-absorbed creep. While everyone knows that marriage can be stressful, recent studies have found that men who read Forbes are twice as likely to pick their noses (too much cocaine), drive Hummers, need Viagra, and if they do live long enough to ever take out the trash without being asked, they'll develop a bad back and be useless for sex or gardening. A recent study in Socially Clueless, a group of lonely geeks, found that men - even those who are well-read and can put more than one sentence together - are happiest when their reading material does not include Forbes.

"To be clear, we're not talking about a guy who merely touches Forbes as he's fondling the contents of the magazine rack. We're talking about a guy with a two-year subscription, who reads the damn thing cover-to-cover."



Discussed

and too bored by that same old, same old to be disgusted.


:boring: (not your thread- the article.)

[lonestarnot]

222. WTF?

Why would a career woman want to marry anyone anyway?