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OMG! Condi Rice's "Birth Pangs" is a freakin' Rapture reference!

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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 06:45 PM
Original message
OMG! Condi Rice's "Birth Pangs" is a freakin' Rapture reference!
Condi Rice's infamous words on July 21, 2006:

"But I have no interest in diplomacy for the sake of returning Lebanon and Israel to the status quo ante. I think it would be a mistake. What we're seeing here, in a sense, is the growing -- the birth pangs of a new Middle East."


What a strange way to describe such extreme human suffering and violence. Then again, it turns out our Secretary of State isn't the only one to use "birth pangs" in such an interesting way. "Birth pangs" is a common term among End Timers to describe the turmoil that precedes the tribulation and rapture supposedly foretold by biblical prophecy:


From Pastor Ron Graff at Bible-prophecy.com:

BEGINNING OF BIRTH PAINS - Matthew 24:4-8

This is a picture of the times in which we are living. This is the generation which has seen the rebirth of the nation of Israel, exactly as prophesied in Ezekiel, chapters 36 and 37 ...

The events of this period of time are like the onset of labor pains. They are strong enough to let the mother know that the time of birth is near, but they are not as severe as they will be later. Thus, the dreadful events of the Tribulation are prefigured by many smaller versions of the same things before the intense trouble of the Tribulation actually begins.


From Tribulation Forces, Signs of the times and Bible prophecy:

There are two periods that Jesus taught about the end of times. During the first period we will experience the "birth pangs" <Matt 24-25>, <Mark 13>, and <Luke 21> which are setting the stage, so to speak of things to come. The second period will be the actual "signs" of the end. Here are the "birth pangs" (again, NOT signs of the end):

- Israel becomes a country again. <Ezek 11:14-18> In 1948 Israel became a nation again for the first time in 1500 years.
- In 1967 after the 6-Day War, Israel regained control of Jerusalem.

- Many people will claim to be the Christ (the Messiah) <Matt 24:3> Since 1900 alone there have been over 1100 public figures claiming to be Christ.
- Among them Sun Myung Moon, Maharaj Ji and countless others.
- People will be decieved by these fakers.

- Wars and Rumors of wars, revolutions. Since World War II there have been over 170 limited scope conflicts.

- Famines, earthquakes, pestilences. Billions of people go to bed hungry each night. Just view the happenings in Africa.
- The number of earthquakes has increased in both numbers and intensity within the last 30 years. From 1960 to 1979 there were over 64 earthquakes measuring over 6.0 on the richter scale. From 1980 to present there have been over 200. Compared to even the early 1900s when there was only 8 in a 30 year period.

- Nations and kingdoms at war. It seems that on any given day somewhere in the world there is an ongoing armed conflict.


From Rapture Ready:

The unending avalanche of catastrophes has convinced me that they are part of the end-time warning signs called the birth pangs. The Bible predicts they will increase in frequency as we get closer to the tribulation hour. I expect the world media will soon be covering new calamities in the coming months.

The birth pang factor is not the only end-time indicator at work today. Jesus told His disciples that apathy would also be the calling card of His return. In the Book of Mathew, the Lord repeated himself four times in the space of a few verses. He obviously was trying to make a point of how slothfulness will relate to the last days.


And from the Rapture Ready Forums:

Guess what folks: The birth pangs are still coming

pains(sic) are still coming. Some thought things had quieted down for now but it looks like we were just in a lull before the next hard contraction. With all that's going on is the world today, it looks like the rider on the white horse of Revelation is busy taking peace from the earth. Are we next. We seen a glimpse of it in N.O. Now its like a wild fire that's spreading over the earth as people seemly goes nuts.


From a piece called Eschatology, Different Rapture Views by Greg Rugh:

"Essential to this view is the division of the Seventieth Week into three major, distinct, and identifiable periods of time; The beginning of "birth pangs," the "great tribulation," and "the day of the Lord." Ibid. p. 223


And finally from Max Blumenthal's piece in The Nation, Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism, but he doesn't mention Rice's statement:

Brog's recently published book, Standing with Israel: Why Christians Support the Jewish State, expands his case for Jewish acceptance of evangelical political goals. Brog told National Review that his book has universal appeal and will help anyone to "better comprehend the birth pangs of what in time will be a very important alliance." The phrase "birth pangs" is clearly understood by evangelicals as a scriptural citation from Matthew 24, which refers to the apocalyptic struggle that will usher in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.


And hits from Google just keep on comin'.

So, now the Bush administration has taken politically coded language to a new low by throwing a big, greasy bone out to the lunatics who are soiling their underwear at the prospect that we are witnessing the end of the world.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, I remember from my Fundie youth
There are plenty of "end times" references that could be used against BushCo, but it seems that "he will fool many, even God's chosen" is a Bible prophecy that is coming true.

I love using my knowledge against them and do it whenever possible. Call be blasphemous... hell if I care. I'm Agnositc... and I no longer "hold sacred" the dogmatic myths.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Awesome
same here
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PDittie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good post.
Thanks.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
34. those knee high black leather boots are well grounded
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The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Has always been to me one of the keys in prophecy
Wars and rumors of wars were no biggie, we have had them and natural disasters, disease, etc forever. Jesus was pointing this out in this case but also warning that when all these things are kicking in, and more and more are occuring within a limited time frame, then we should take note.

This is the one thing which has not been heeded through the centuries by folks of faith - they take one or two small things and say they indicate the end is near - which is what jesus was warning about. Crap happens, when a lot of shit is happening, and grows, pay close attention :)

And one could argue as well that this was not god saying he would bring about the end, but stating simply that mankind is war like and given enough time and inventions they will eventually end up killing themselves en masse.

Signs are worth looking out for - regardless of one's religious inclination. Logic signs I call them. Billions of people, loads of insane weaponry, divisions along political/religious/etc lines, shrinking resources, and so on - keep an eye on oil, water, food, and potential diseases triggering a massive war.
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I_Make_Mistakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. It's falsely quoted, surprise, surprise. I pointed this out a few
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 07:50 PM by I_Make_Mistakes
weeks ago, but here is the lead up to the demons words.
Signs of the End of the Age (NRSV Bible study)
Matthew 24:3 "When he was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying "Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of your age?". 4Jesus answered them, "Beware that no one leads you astray . 5 For many will come in my name, saying "I am the Messiah!" (my insert Falwell, Robertson, Bush, etc.) and they will lead many astray.6And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not alarmed; for this must take place, but the end is not yet.7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places8all this is but the beginning of birth pangs."

These so called Fundie Christians are being lead astray by the false Messiahs (earthly men) and are too ignorant to get the truths of the teachings. They are so willing to believe that a few quotes taken out of context will enable THEM to ENACT the Will of God, I believe in God and know he doesn't need man's aid to ENACT HIS WILL.

This whole End times bs, was a product of the 1800's and is in no way connected with the true church teachings. You would be surprised at how many young teenagers who were taken with the dumb, LaHaye books got it, when I said, if we are judged on Judgment Day, why would God, do anything while we are here. You either believe or not, I do, but if you get your teachings these fools can't dupe you.

Edit to change came to come spelling error
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Well said!
Now THAT is what I learned in Sunday School!

What is being so widely preached now doesn't even come close... Jesus was not about hate. He is the Prince of Peace FCOL!!!
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. The average Fundy has little clue as to what the Bible says.
They are 'cult of personality' follower-mentality types.
They don't follow the book, they follow the LEADER
who waves the book.

Point-by-point, "christian Fundamentalism" has every
defining characteristic of every other CULT.
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Felinity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
27. I like this point
"They are so willing to believe that a few quotes taken out of context will enable THEM to ENACT the Will of God, I believe in God and know he doesn't need man's aid to ENACT HIS WILL."

Maybe the only way into these silly people's heads is to convince them that God doesn't need their help. Going around smiting oil rich (non-Christian) countries to help bring around the "end-times" is arrogant and blasphemous. This "well we're all going to war anyway, so why not help it get started with a little war-mongering" belies the omnipotence and omniscience of this God of theirs, not to mention that little peace fetish that Jesus guy was all about.

Then again I'm not a OT or NT enthusiast. Maybe Jesus said, "Whensoever the end-times cometh, get thou a great big nuclear bomb and droppeth it on some Arab country thou doesn't like, especially if they spyethed upon thee better than you spyethed upon them."
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. so is "No Child Left Behind"
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 07:06 PM by Mabus
but not a lot of people know that either.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. I discovered this, too, the other day
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Good post! I had no clue until about a 1/2 hour ago, and by pure accident.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Me, too!
I did some googling to see what Condi was really referring to when she said this, cross referencing it with some fundie bibical quotes sites and stumbled across it.

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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, interesting, isn't it....
There is NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, they won't do or say to keep their base. Despicable.
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Mugsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here is the Bible passage:
Matthew 24:4-8

4 Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ' and will deceive many.
6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.
7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Its been going on for 30,000 years...since Man discovered DECIET
and EXPLOITATION
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yeah, and Jesus said a lot of other things like,
Edited on Wed Aug-23-06 08:06 PM by jaysunb
love your enemy, pray for those who despitefully use you, love your neighbor as you love yourself, what you do to the least of these you do to me...and lots more that they don't seem to adhere to.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-23-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. Condi is one
sick fugg. Thanks for this.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
16. This is an area where KKKarl Rove has excelled...picking out scraps
of scripture to throw to the massively insecure and ignorant Fundies. He has them trained better than Pavlov's dogs with a phrase here or there spewed out by the criminals in this administration. It was a stroke of genius when he mastered these fools so well...they will do anything or commit any crime to fulfill this fantasy if they can be convinced the bible says so.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. Didn't the Jon Stewart middle-eastern correspondent dead-pan
the birth pangs comment? That guy was just hilarious. I was hoping he'd be a regular.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 02:00 AM
Response to Original message
18. This line wasn't Condi's
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 02:02 AM by WilliamPitt
Find out who the speechwriter/talking points distributor was for that day's events, and from whom said speechwriter/talking points distributor is getting their marching orders. That's where the line came from. Condi's not that clever; she was told to say this, and someone else wrote it down for her. This was aimed at the base...again, and probably came from the Communications Director, if not from Mr. Rove.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. she says it therefore whe owns it. It is as simple as that.
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. But she probably had no concept of the real meaning. n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I respectfully disagree.
Look at the woman's childhood influences. She fully understands.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I think she's been brainwashed...
this is a woman who remembers growing up in segregationist Birmingham AL like one long trip to Disneyland.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #21
32. Her speech writers probably do
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. we know they planned this phrase as a talking point
because they all repeated it, and the flying cable monkeys too. As far as its relation to the rapture--I think it was a deliberate reference, their speeches are loaded with such code words. As far as whether they believe it or not--what do you think? I think the Rapture is bullshit. If I caught any of my public representatives believing in it I would be shocked and dismayed because it is so extreme and punitive, and I don't want my public servants subscribing to such nonsense--it would indicate instability and a disturbed mind.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #19
25. True
But ask yourself: was this one official making a statement on her own hook? Or was it one official carrying water for the larger admin agenda, i.e. holding on to the base with both hands?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Either way,
she is 100% responsible for what she said. She is an evil human being, who should be judged by the same standards as Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. They can all be viewed as carrying the blood of a larger administration agenda. That does not lessen their personal responsibility.
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
30. I'm sure you're right. The Bush admin breaks down into leaders ...
and followers. The few leaders being Rummy, Cheney, Rove, and the followers being Bush, Rice, and most others. The followers do and say only what they are told and every action and every appearance of theirs is meticulously crafted by the propagandists. I'm pretty positive Rice had no idea what her words implied, but I'm also positive that those words were no accident.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. That was uncalled for...
sheesh...the level of misogyny in that post was staggering.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. Geez pal, switch to decaf already.
Oh and by the way, grow up.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. Was a fundie/evangelical for many, many years.
The "birth pangs" business relies on a single translation, as far as I know. One that I don't own (I had a nice Bible-translation collection at one point), and haven't ever seen used.

One that's not very salient to the majority of the movement. Mostly I've see the translation 'woes' or 'troubles'.

In any event, it takes more than that to prove Rice's phrase is rapture-related. I've used the phrase, my atheist wife has used the phrase. Neither of us buy into the rapture, or ever have.

This isn't even post hoc reasoning.

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KikiDisme Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
33. I KNEW Bush was the Antichrist
My daughter pointed out yesterday that they always talk like that...catering to the "Left Behind" crowd and sending them not so secret messages. The sad thing is that I think Bush really thinks that by stirring up the Middle East, he can bring on the Apocolypse but it won't matter because he'll be raptured.

I don't think G-d sees it that way, based on the rest of the Book.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. Welcome to DU, KikiDisme.
:hi:
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
36. Watch out for the afterbirth!
I don't buy the idea that "birth pangs" was meant as a reference to the rapture--it's a very common phrase.

What scares me to death is that people who believe in the end of times now have the power to bring it about--both DUHbya and Ahmadenijad.

If a new Middle East is born, all I can say is, watch out for the afterbirth...it'll be a bloody mess worse than anything we've seen.

News and commentary, left to right
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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
37. Amazing......
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