Hey--you Lieberman fans here on DU--Ya still here?

[trumad]

There's a couple of you and I know you're here cause I debated with you during the Lamont/Lieb primary.

You're here---come on out ---I've got a question for you.

Do you still love some Joe?

Lieberman will appear with two prominent Republicans, Gov. M. Jodi Rell and U.S. Rep. Rob Simmons, R-2nd, to celebrate last year's reversal of a Pentagon decision to close the Groton submarine base.
http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctsenate0824.artaug24,0,6788295.story?page=2&coll=hc-headlines-local

Now listen--- if you come out and say you're disgusted by this and he's lost your support--- all's well...let's move on.

BUT if you still support this Johnny Turncoat... well, I think that speaks for itself.

[bryant69]

1. It is a challange to Democratic Moderates

Of which I am one.

Because there are Democratic people who are not Moderates who would like this to be a referendum on moderates - that this is the natural path of betrayel and sell out that you can expect from, well, people like me.

Personally I think there's a difference between being a moderate and being a Bush shill, which is what Joe became several months ago. And I think that most people, no matter where they are on the curve, see the difference.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Jed Dilligan]

4. So what DO you mean by moderate?

Or are you only interested in talking about what you claim not to be?

[bryant69]

6. Good question

Moderate on DU means something different than in Washington, and something else again in the heartland - i spend more time discussing politics here at DU than anywhere else, so it's possible my definition isn't in line with everybodies else.

I am pro capitalist. I am in favor of reducing the deficit and think that needs to be a priority. I am generally in favor of a sensibly sized government - meaning it works well in some areas but there are places where the government is too large. I favor a welfare program that, as much as possible, encourages people to get off welfare (without punishing people who legitimately can't). I favor free trade or fair trade - I like the concept behind fair trade although in some plans it seems like the restrictions would basically end up with no trade. I favor some form of national healthcare.

Bryant

[Jed Dilligan]

12. All that sounds reasonable enough

I disagree that capitalism itself should be a first principle of government. I am also familiar with the workings of the welfare system and understand that the rules tend to create more problems than they solve. "Fair" and "free" trade are fairly vague terms. I agree with you on healthcare. You've made no mention of the environment.

The problem with announcing yourself as a moderate on DU is the Washington definition--the idea of meeting the GOP in the middle somewhere. Most of us are fed up with our Democratic leaders playing that game. You seem to announce in favor of it by calling yourself a moderate.

Furthermore, I associate the idea of being a "moderate" with conformist arrogance--"Step aside, you fools, we're the sensible ones!" (inevitably spoken by middle-aged white man in suit) A lot of us here are fed up with being ruled from that semiological position and are ready to demand that "moderates" tell us, unequivocally, where they are coming from and whom they really support.

[bryant69]

14. Well here at DU it certainly works both way

Being Moderate openly and you let yourself in for a certain amount of grief; perhaps deserved based on the behaivor of Washington Moderates.

But I don't think anythings gained by not saying where you stand - you don't have to be rude about it or aggressive, but you should be clear. Some of the things I hear here at DU are impractical or lack sense. I mean I'm a moderate because I think that's the right answer - any time you think you are right, you are, by definition, thinking that other people who think differently are wrong. Better to face that head on, I think.

Bryant

[Armstead]

19. I consider myself a moderate -- But today that makes me a "leftist"

For example, I see a huge difference between "free trade" and "fair trade."

Fair trade respects the balance between domestic economic and social interests and the need and merits of international trade. That does require a degree of protectionism, and it means we may have to pay somewhat higher prices -- but the payoff is good jobs and a strong domestic economy that bemnefits everyone.

"Free" trade has very little to do with sane trade rules. It is all about imposing a Corporate Rioght Wing system on the entire world. It seeks to undermine domestic politics and civil society, in favor of ungoverned Pirate neo-Colonialism and unbridled Corporate Power of the elite.

But anyone who advocates a balance today is called a "left wing" socialist.

[LostinVA]

20. Where do you stand on women's reproductive rights, gay rights,

Affirmative action?

[bryant69]

21. Yes Yes Yes - but Afffirmative Action is a stop gap

ANd should be seen as such - someday it shouldn't be necessary.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[acmejack]

3. I'm far from a either a Joe fan or a moderate

The Submarine Base is a big deal. It's a huge facility and a major employer in Connecticut. The save is cause for bipartisan celebration, as much as I hate to, I am forced to admit it is nothing more than good politicking by a shrewd practitioner of the art.

[Sadie5]

5. I still say

Joe was hijacked by the pigs in 2000. As I look back he didn't want to fight the election fraud and no whining was apparent back then when Harris and Scalia made their famous *decisions*. Soon after Joe started his bipartisan crap and voted with Bush every opportunity he got. I think he should go ahead with his defection to the GOP and tell the truth for once. I still can't believe Gore chose this wimp for a running mate.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Re: Joe in 2000 as VP candidate

I read somewhere that before his debate with Cheney Gore was still leading in the polls, but after it was behind.
I swear to God, if Gore had picked John Kerry for VP it would never have been close- Nader, the stealing, and all.

[acmejack]

13. I agree with that.

I was really surprised with the selection of Lieberman. I can believe the polling data, I never saw that but I sure can believe it, Joe came off every bit the wimp against the Dick.

[IntravenousDemilo]

16. I forget, had Gore thought about Kerry as his running mate?

It's been a long six years, and I'm Canadian.

[leesa]

7. All the states need to find different manufacturing bases other than war

toys or we will have to constantly be at war to remain solvent. Isn't this a big part of why Joe is such a warmonger...outside of his allegience to Israel over the US? Isn't it why they ALL approve wholeheartedly of continuous warring? Good fer bidness.

[bigscott]

10. here here

without the sub base - all you would have in that part of the state is Pfizer and the casinos

[Beelzebud]

9. Joe is more of a spoiler than Nader ever thought about being.

At least Nader never claimed to be in the Democratic party.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Looks like Joe was BOUGHT OUT a long time ago...maybe 6 or 7 years

[cmkramer]

15. Let Me Let You In On A Little Secret

Whenever there is some kind of event that benefits the state/country -- as in this case, a submarine base not being closed -- it is normal to have people from BOTH parties when the event is celebrated.

Why wouldn't the governor of the state be there? Or the person who represents the district the base was in? Or the senator who no doubt championed the cause?

If both of the other pols had been Democrats, Lieberman would have been there too. It's a "campaign" event only in the sense that it's a "look what I did for you" thing that incumbents get to highlight to show why they should be re-elected.

[Hoosier Dem]

17. My only question here...

My question is this: if this a "bi-partisan celebration" of keeping the base open, will Senator Dodd attend or was even invited.

Just asking.

[Critters2]

18. The worst of the pro-Joes got banned.

[Moderator]

22. locking

DU rules prohibit flamebait threads and calling
out DU members.