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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:37 PM
Original message
November 5, 2006
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 04:45 PM by Pacifist Patriot
I have the oddest compulsion to don this costume and park myself by the White House fence.



Why would that be do you think? ;)


ETA: Without the knives!
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'd Lose The Knives First
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Ediacara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree
I may join you, but DEFINTELY without the knives.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Nah, I'm not into knives either. No problem leaving those out!
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. That was my first thought too. n/m
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jayctravis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. and the cape...
But a large group dressed in black with those masks on sticks would be quite an image!
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why Nov. 5th?
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 04:41 PM by sinkingfeeling
Edited to correct to your date.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Rent "V for Vendetta"
Doesn't hurt that it's two days before Election day though.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. It would probably be a very exciting five minutes.
The years in Gitmo afterwards, though, would probably suck big time.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Remember, remember...
You should do it for Halloween, too!
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I'm already planning on it for my Halloween costume.
Out of Stock everywhere. Go figure!
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. out of stock already? The Halloween stores here haven't opened yet
But I, too, was planning to scoping out some "Vendetta" attire...
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I've been looking on-line.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. interesting, indeed... What will the 31st of October bring?
n/t
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
9. Remember, remember the 7th of November (as in 2000)....
The Florida vote treason and plot. I know of no reason why the Florida vote treason should ever be forgot.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. I liked the quote: People should not be afraid...
V: People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. The movie is a treasure trove.
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 05:12 PM by Pacifist Patriot
Change 'Creedy' in the first quote to 'Bush' and you've got a description of our current administration.

"We are being buried under the avalanche of your inadequacies, Mr. Creedy!"

"...if you are looking for the guilty, you need only look in the mirror."

"We are told to remember the idea, not the man. Because a man can fail. He can becaught, he can be killed and forgotten. But four hundred years later an idea can still change the world."

"...artists use lies to tell the truth while politicians use them to cover it up."


And probably my favorite since it has to do with television...."I can't believe you watch that shit." :)

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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Why is that such a good quote?
I'd think it would be much more preferable for a government and it's people to co-exist peacefully without either needing to fear the other.

I guess I'm just a pollyanna :shrug:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Interesting discussion. I think it's too stark out of context.
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 05:32 PM by Pacifist Patriot
The idea being that a representative and responsive government would have nothing to fear from the people. It's an indictment against dictatorial forms of government, not government in general.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. No, you're right, in an ideal world...
alas, in our current situation, we see the the quote played out in reality--only it's the reverse of the quote, which is why the quote is appropos. Under Bush, the people have cause for fear, fear both of the government and of what it's doing, and alas, it hasn't the least concern over what it's citizens want or need. Seems that this situation could benefit if the government feared the people, at least enough to listen (and I don't mean listen--in to our phone calls).

Now then, as to the definition of fear. The idea that the government should fear the people should mean that our elected leaders should fear us, and, they should indeed--if that fear is nothing more than the fear that we'll vote them out of office if they aren't responsive. Unfortunately, when it comes to the people fearing the government, the people really do have cause for fear--and of much more serious actions than merely being voted out of office, and there's every reason to think it's going to get worse before it gets better (our one hope being a Democratic win in November, but that may well depend upon forces beyond the mere casting of votes, forces that can make such votes result in any desired outcome).

Fear, at least on the part of the people, is a bad thing for several reasons. One of the main reasons is that in fear, people don't think clearly and are susceptible to the loudest voice (one that is composed of the owners and controllers the mass media, the energy industry and the military-industrial corporations). Another is an aspect of human nature that's been studied in which when people's fears are stimulated even slightly, they tend to separate into groups and worse, they actually tend to become more aggressive in their treatment of people who aren't members of their group--even when there is no provocation. Bush's reliance on fear mongering has certainly ensured that he would, in fact, not be a "uniter" but rather, a very effective "divider".

Alas, in the end, fear is an important and necesary and instinctive emotion that on the individual level tends to help improve one's chances of survival. On a group level, it tends to result in more conflict and eventually often ends up costing individuals their chances for survival. We have a great deal to fear in this world, but living life in fear is, well, not much fun. Still, it helps to identify enemies (both real and imagined). In this case, there can be no doubt, the government we fear is not an construct of our imaginations. It's also true that if we ignore the reasons our government merits our fear, it will only get worse.

So, you're right, it would be a good thing not to have fear of government (and that it should not have to fear it's people) or better yet, not to have to have fear of our government. Indeed, that should be our goal--to eliminate the causes for fear on either side of the equation. In fact, since our government should very meaningfully be of the people, by the people and for the people, there should be no fear between the two--the two should be the same. Instead, our government has become a separate and secretive other, a "they". We must resolve this and restore our government to one that is but an extension of ourselves.

Until then, alas, we will continue to live in a nation in which fear of the government is appropriate, and one in which the people would benefit from being able to project a certain kind and degree of fear within that government--not such that it lashes out in fear, but rather in which it pays closer attention to the will of it's people. In it's most primal sense, though, the government we have actually does fear the people--it may ignore them and not care what they think, but it lives in fear of the day the people do wake from their apathetic slumber and start taking ownership of the government. Such is always the fear of the wealthy; that someone will take their riches (and/or power) from them. Strange that greed is the root cause of all our problems; alas, too few can see beyond their fears to realize it.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. I just saw that movie last night for the first time.
Edited on Thu Aug-24-06 06:24 PM by Cleita
Everyone should dress like that like they did in the movie on the 5th of November and demand Bush/Cheney's resignation.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. I think that the concept is excellent.
V for Vendetta is one of my favorite movies and I found it to be very stirring. My concern is that the Republicans would be so afraid of such a demonstration even without any mask or symbol that they would turn out in droves to vote against the Democrats.

People should never fear their government and it is true if anything, the government should fear its people. It should fear the wrath of its people when it tramples their rights. Government should fear its people when it commits atrocities in their name. So if there is any fear between the people and the government, it should be that the government is afraid of the people because it serves by their permission. Only a dictator or despot does not fear the people.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-24-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Actually, they really do fear the people and the more despotic
they are, the greater is the fear because they know how much they are hated. This is why they do everything they can to project their fear on everyone. I think FDR said it best, "The only thing we need to fear is fear itself." With these words he was able to mobilize the American people to win WWII.
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