Why is Indiana so red?

[stuartrida]

I was recently reading about Edward L. Jackson, the KKK member who was Governor of Indiana in the 20s, and it had me wondering. Why is Indiana so politically different than the states around it? I looked up the 1996 election results, and while Clinton won by a 8.5% nationally, and won Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and Kentucky, he lost Indiana by 5.5%

I know there are progressive people in Indiana, and I liked Indianapolis for the brief time I was there. But why is it generally more conservative than the other states in that part of the country?

[BobRossi]

1. Buckle of the Bible belt. nt

[Iris]

2. NPR has been doing reports on Indiana voters all week.

One thing that stuck out to me was they said you won't find any "right wing extremists" or "left wing fanatics" - people were pretty much middle of the road.

Anyway - you can probably listen to the reports at npr.org.

[rpannier]

3. I used to live in Indiana

Go to Stark County or Kankakee County. Stark County is a hot bed of Klan Activity. Kankakee County's High School is called the Kankakee Kounty Kougars. They have KKK on the side of their school building. Don't believe it? Go to the school some time, you'll see
Kankakee
Kounty
Kougars

The Klan had its rebirth in Indiana -- 1920's. Most elected politicians in the 20's and 30's had strong ties to the Klan.

[bigwillq]

4. Wow. That is scary.

Would never want to go there. :scared:

[DefenseLawyer]

29. There is no Kankakee County in Indiana

Good story though.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

40. It's in Illinois. n/t

[hippiechick]

7. Won't find any right wing extremists ?

Man, have them call me ... I can lead 'em right to a whole bunch of 'em !!!


:wow:

[Clark2008]

17. I agree with you!

My family is from the South - Tennessee - and when I was a child, my Dad got a job in Indiana and we moved there.

Despite our having lived in the South, we never saw as many backward, redneck, bigoted people as we did in Seymour!

I'm not saying the whole state is like this: I'm sure, as there is everywhere, that there are good and bad people, but when you get a truckload of Southerners moving up there only to move back in a year becasue THEY were backward, well, that's sayin' something!

[TahitiNut]

18. Indiana is loaded with klan and white supremacists.

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?S=IN&m=4

[joemurphy]

52. There are twice as many in Ohio, Illinois, and Michigan

Three times as many in Texas and California.

There are similar bozos in every state in the Union. It doesn't mean Indiana is "teeming" with them. This statement is just silly.

[Iris]

33. It's funny because on a discussion list I'm on someone else mentioned

the Klan in Indiana this week. Actually, the NPR report may have been discussing a specific part of Indiana. They covered different communities throughout the week. That was just one line that stuck in my mind and I only mentioned the stories because it's come up twice now in a couple of day's time.

[im10ashus]

58. No shit.

So can I. I grew up there. Scares me every time I have to go back. Even some of the family can be scary.

[AlinPA]

5. The KKK was strong there, probably the main reason. nt

[Bozvotros]

6. Probably just fewer metro areas

I am from Fort Wayne and I am seeing major changes in how folks view this administration. I can wear my "Worst President Ever" t-shirt anywhere and never get hassled and usually get thumbs up. Indy is largely blue as is the Michigan City, Gary area but Fort Wayne has been mixed. We frequently elect Democratic mayors here while voting in National Republicans by big margins. As a state we are coming around however as more and more good jobs are lost and the total failure of Bush's policies are being felt. Lots of folks who had supported Bush for years, now won't defend him at all.

Indiana labor has been surprisingly conservative for years. I know union officials who had been stunned at the political ignorance in their ranks, but that is changing too. I think there will be surprises this November. Mark Souder is facing a tough Congressional reelection fight and other Pugs who have had their noses firmly attached to Bush and Delay's butt are now quietly distancing themselves from the party line and even offering criticism.

[INdemo]

27. Great Post ,you summed it up really well...

I did not realize Mich.city was a blue city..
I knew that Hayhurst would give Souder a real fight but I haven't been able to find any polls on this race...

[alfredo]

32. I talked with a political activist from Indiana. He's quite

hopeful of the Dems chances there. From what I remember, he mentioned three races in the southern half.

Kentucky might pick up two seats, more if we're lucky. I'd say two.

[TankLV]

8. No high RPF Repuke Screen available yet.

(Repuke Protection Factor).

But Democrats are working on it...

[hippiechick]

9. Basic incuriousity, me-first-ness, and a lack of critical thought process

... people here are almost proud of their intolerance, ignorance, and refusal to accept anything that's different from what they've always seen/known (whether it works or not).

The almost childish backwoods religious faith ("Jesus will fix ALL!") and acceptance of (Republican male) authority is mind blowing.

I ask myself regularly why I ever moved here. :shrug:

[suziedemocrat]

10. I'm a Hoosier and it sucks here.

People here don't think Fox news is biased. They are lame, dumb hoosiers. Most don't travel or know geography very well. Being too smart here is a bad thing. They are very patriotic people though and have no doubt that the U.S. is absolutely the best country ever.

[mdpod]

24. Right on...could not put it better.

[Retired AF Dem]

11. Study a map

Indiana is the middle finger of the south. I grew up in Indiana and now reside in Alabama. Tough call which state has the most rednecks.

[joemurphy]

12. Indiana isn't as red as you might think.

We have a Dem senator (Bayh) and a moderate Repub (Lugar). Indianapolis is solidly Democratic. Gary and Evansville are blue as well. The Legislature is usually narrowly one party or the other. It's just in Presidential elections that Indiana is usually reliably red. Our governor now is a Repub but we had Dems for three straight terms.

As a group, Hoosiers are pretty insular. They are socially conservative and the rural areas are pretty backward. If you saw the movie "Hoosiers" it would give you a good flavor for small-town life. There is a big difference between it and the cities. The KKK thing happened, but it was a long time ago. Indiana is more Bible Belt than Bigoted.

[greendog]

31. The KKK thing didn't happen "a long time ago"...

...When George Wallace campaigned in Indy in '72, a $25.00 a plate lunch was attended by State Grand Dragon William Chaney...and Frank Thompson, head of the local John Birch chapter.

When I was in grade school our school bus went past William Chaney's house. Around that time he was sent to prison for a bombing at the Naegele Outdoor Advertising Company.

Just a few years ago I saw a man at the DQ in Waverly wearing a Klan t-shirt. I'd bet they're still active in south central Indiana today.

[joemurphy]

51. Well, if you think so. I've lived in Indiana all my life

and seen zero, zip, nada of the Klan. Wallace did win a primary here (30+ years ago) and it wasn't about the Klan. It was about the same kind of thing Buchanan's about -- "pointy-headed liberals"; state's rights; fear of busing and affirmative action, thinly-veiled bigotry and nativism. That was nothing to be proud of, but it doesn't mean Indiana is rife with Kleagles, and Klaxons, and Kleenex.

You seem to think that every Indiana small town is teeming with Klansmen. You can think that if you want to, but you'd be awfully mistaken. Just because you saw some idiot with a stupid T-shirt doesn't make rural Indiana a hotbed of the KKK. Anecdotes like that don't cut it. Those kinds of stories are equally valid (and just as unscientific) in any other state.

Rural Indiana is conservative, suspicious of change, and wary of Negros, Hispanics, and blacks (since there are so few of them in rural Indiana) -- but Indiana farmers aren't running around in sheets, burning crosses, or bombing black churches. The Klan isn't here anymore. It hasn't had any influence here since the 1920s. It was thoroughly discredited when its leader, Stevenson murdered Madge Oberholzer (or more precisely repeatedly raped her and then caused her to commit suicide). That was over 80 years ago.

[greendog]

55. I grew up in Greenwood...

...in the 70's and it was common knowledge that the klan was active in Greenwood and even more active in Martinsville.

[joemurphy]

57. I grew up in Indy. I've heard of bigotry occasionally.

For example, most Indianapolis blacks will tell you that the cops in Carmel target blacks and arrest them whenever they can. Whether that's true or not, I don't know.

I've heard the same stories about Martinsville that you allude to too -- that it was once a hotbed of Klan activity, etc., etc.

I can't say I ever heard anything like that about Greenwood, which is now pretty much an Indy suburb. Admittedly, it wasn't the case so much in the 70s.

Personally, I think a lot of the above is urban legend. I've never heard of one instance of the KKK marching, burning, pamphleting, or really doing anything in either Martinsville or Greenwood in my lifetime. I'm 56 and I've lived in Indianapolis all my life.

Occasionally you'll see some KKK grafitti sprayed on a railway bridge somewhere -- but that's usually stupid high school kids at work -- not something ordered by a Grand Dragon.

[greendog]

62. Greenwood was one of the "white flight" suburbs...

...durring the period of school desegregation and busing. Because it was outside Marion County it was considered by whites to be "safe". The "visible" presence of the Klan was minimal. They'd occasionally have a get-together in the country that people would stumble across (my brother has a story). There probably weren't that many of them.

Their function to the community was that the rumor of their presence was enough to keep blacks from moving across the county line. I think that that a lot of white folks appreciated the fact that these stories about the klan would protect their schools and real estate values. The advantage was you didn't have to be an overt racist to reap "the benefits". You could repeat the stories and even even claim some moral high ground by knocking their backward ways and the stories would spread just the same.

I've lived in Greenwood as recently as 2001 and there were still very few black people living there. I did see a lot more black folks coming to Greenwood to shop, something that you'd never see in the '70's.

[joemurphy]

63. I hear you about white flight.

I lived in the Forest Manor neighborhood in Indy in the late 50s and early 60s (around 34th and Emerson) and there was a lot of blockbusting and white flight from that area when I was a kid. Most whites that could afford to headed north (part of the reason for Carmel's upsurge in growth). I guess the same thing probably happened in Greenwood. Indianapolis became sort of a donut town -- a high percentage of blacks in the old city limits and in Marion County generally, ringed by suburban counties that are still very white. Court-ordered busing triggered some of the exodus. The racism became less overt than simply de facto. Lots of whites have just moved away.

If you ever read the book "Going All the Way" by Dan Wakefield about life in Indy in the 1950s it gives a pretty accurate portrayal of the prevailing attitudes back then. Black intrusions into previously white neighborhoods were described as: "They're coming" and it was seen as something "scary" and "inevitable," like Sherman's march to the sea.

I like to think this is ending for pragmatic reasons. Many white professionals and gays are now moving back into Indianapolis. They're finding that the 45 minute commute to the job into town daily from Carmel isn't worth it. Indy has the better restaurants and social amenities and living together with blacks isn't regarded as scary as everyone once thought. Indy's getting better culturally and from a race-relations standpoint as a result of this new admixture -- particularly the downtown and Broad Ripple areas. At least that's my opinion.

[greendog]

64. You're right about things improving in Indy

I've lived at 16th and Pennsylvania, 17th and Talbot and 46th and Indianola...all mixed neighborhoods and everyone got along well enough.

My experience with white flight was in the Meridian-Kessler neighborhood around '67/'68. A black Minister, his wife and her elderly mother moved onto the block and there was an almost instant mass exodus. I think we moved in '69. It had been one of those "ideal" 60's baby boom neighborhoods with lots of kids. Walk to school. Walk to church. Walk to the grocery store. Beautiful old handcrafted homes. And everyone abandoned it to move to crappy chain link, cookie cutter suburbia because they couldn't share it with people who looked different.

[joemurphy]

65. Yeah, stupid and sad.

I'm grinning a little at your addresses. We're practically neighbors. I live in Renaissance Place just northeast of Riley Towers. I'm pretty familiar with the locations you mentioned.

When I was in high school, I hated Indy. Some of the comments mentioned in some of the other threads sound the way I felt about things back then. I just wanted out. I went out of state to college and then spent time in the army and in law school. When I came back, the ambience had changed a lot. I love living downtown now. I have a lot of multi-ethnic friends. I like the way Indy continues to develop. I love the place now. Go figure.

Anyway, nice chatting with a fellow Dem that's so familiar with the place.

[happyslug]

13. No large Industrial City., except Gary.

Illinois had Chicago and is suburbs, Ohio has Cleveland and Cincinnati and their Suburbs. Michigan has Detroit and its suburbs. In fact the Capital Cities of each state are more red than the industrial cities, thus Springfield Ill, Columbus Ohio and Lansing Michigan are roughly the same as Indianapolis. On top of this Michigan had secondary cities of Flint Ohio has Toledo, Canton and Youngstown, Illinois had Cairo. Indiana has really no cities like those (It has small cities but not Flints, Cantons, no Cairo etc). Thus Indiana is more rural than Ohio, Michigan and Illinois and thus Indiana is more red than Michigan, Illinois and Ohio.

Now these are traditional rural Northern Republicans, not neo-conservative Republicans. Nor are they Southern Fundamentalist Republicans Through they may be members of Fundamentalist Religion, they are NOT the same as the Southern Fundamentalists, the Democrats may be able to swing some of these Voters for while they tend to be Republicans, they also believe in Government support for Schools and what use to be called "internal Improvements", (i.e. Roads, infrastructure etc). The main reason such people are Republicans is that is how they ancestor fought in the Civil War. The GOP rely on these Voters but the GOP do not want to give them what they really want. It is possible to switch these people to the Democrats once they eyes are open to the problems being caused by the GOP. Right now they first choice is to Vote GOP, if they have no other reason to vote.

My point is right now Indiana is pro-GOP by Tradition more they what is in their best interests. Careful planning can get them to switch, but it may take some more GOP handling of the Economy to do so.

[suziedemocrat]

22. I think people here hate welfare - plain and simple.

When I dig around here to find out why people vote Republican, it is because they HATE welfare going to people who they think don't deserve it. This is NOT racially motivated either. A LOT of whites here are on welfare, and people HATE it. They have this story or that about someone working the system and it drives them nuts because they have to work. They see the Democrats as being pro-welfare, and the Republicans as being anti-welfare.

[happyslug]

26. Yes, and tell them the #1 cost of Welfare is Medicaid.

And most of that goes to pay for people in Nursing homes. Cash assistance is all most people on welfare gets and that is small part of the Welfare Budget. If we had national Health Insurance, Welfare costs would drop like a rock (Health Insurance would no longer be the large part of the Welfare Costs).

[LostInAnomie]

30. I'm not sure that would matter.

Most of the anti-social program nuts I know around here can not be reasoned with. They see any tax money going to anyone else as a direct theft from them. No matter how well reasoned, benevolent, or just the cause they will despise it.

Here's an anecdote from my experience in my community. A few years ago my community was going to build a new head start building to help the underprivileged children in our city. This building would have been built completely from state funds and would not have raised taxes one cent. Yet when ground was broken letters to the editor were written and local websites blew up in outrage over the fact that tax dollars were being spent on yet another social program. These people would rather see a generation of local children fall behind in school and never catch up than spend what would have been roughly two cents of their tax money to build a school. To me that is disgusting.

[happyslug]

34. Then tell them about long term Nursing Care.

You only have 60 days under Medicare, after that any long term care has to be paid by the person getting the care (out of their assets). Once that money is gone, then long term care is paid by WELFARE. Ask them what they propose to PAY for this care, or do they want them just kicked out of the care center to die.

If they say ANYTHING tell them how would they come up with $100 a DAY for the care. NO ONE CAN PAY FOR THIS EXCEPT WELFARE.

[LostInAnomie]

37. To a rational person that argument would be overpowering.

To the hard core cons here in Southwestern Indiana it would be an example of how government intervention is holding up the free market. Either that, or how the breakdown of the family has led to a nanny state where the old are cast away by their relatives.

They would rather the free market fail societies needs over and over again, than have social programs succeed.

[suziedemocrat]

42. Um - they'd say kick them out to die. (unless it's them.)

My cousin (a good Catholic) actually said to me "Do you really think EVERYONE should be entitled to medical care?" Another strong Catholic I work with said "Show me where in the constitution it says health care is a right."

A woman I work with complained about Katrina victims who "lost a shack and now expect the government to replace it with a mansion" is checking out how her son can get medicaid to pay for injuries he received in a drink driving accident.

Compassion is not big in this state (unless the recipient goes to your church.) I was hurt at work and could not make it down to the cafeteria, over several months only two people offered to get me a drink or asked if I needed anything. And one was a janitor.

[Bill McBlueState]

53. "Show me where in the constitution it says health care is a right."

Hopefully you had the ninth amendment ready:

--

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

--

It doesn't say health care is a right, but it does say in plain language, "Just because we didn't list it doesn't mean it ISN'T a right."

[suziedemocrat]

56. WOW - Good Point! Thanks!

[Quantess]

38. So, that means they would rather see those children grow up...

...to be inmates, which ultimately costs taxpayers far more money?

[LostInAnomie]

39. When have the Repukes ever had a problem with putting someone in jail?

Except for white collar criminals and abortion clinic bombers.

[karynnj]

59. Great analysis

I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago and Gary in the 50s and 60s. Southern Indiana was a shock, when I went to IU (which was a pretty liberal campus though my nieces say it is not any more.)

[bluestateguy]

14. It's a little different than other midwestern states

Indiana has fewer singles than other Midwest states, more white people who are married with children, few Hispanics and not a lot of young people.

As others have also said, the KKK used to be very strong in Indiana. The Klan briefly took over state government in the early 1920's.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. Fried Brain Sandwich. Used to be cow's. They all have mad cow's dz.

:rofl:

[NNN0LHI]

16. I don't know but I lived in Indy for years and loved it there

I would have stayed if I wasn't transferred back to Illinois because of my job. Have a lot of good memories of downtown Indy and boating to Cincinnati. Those were the days.

I find plenty of Conservative Republicans here in Illinois but I think they tend to vote their pocketbooks rather than their "God, guns, and gays" stuff like some others tend to do.

Don

[MercutioATC]

35. Really? Even in Cleveland, we consider Indy to be a cultural wasteland.

I had to take a few business trips there a few years ago with some co-workers and Indy was our least favorite place to go.

The city just seemed so repressed.

[izzybeans]

50. I live there and I concur.

[INdemo]

19. It was because of Democratic State Party Leadership..

After 1964 the state Democratic party just got lazy. We had something like 3 consecutive Republican governors. But we regained the statehouse in the late 80's Our state legislature has been Repuke majority for years. But there is the good news..
There is a good possibility we will win 3 house seats and we might regain the Majority in the state legislature...
There are a few counties in Indiana that are blue and the city of Indianapolis(light shade of blue).Fort Wayne,and So. Bend are blue...Good things are about to happen this year.After November it wont be such a bright shade of red...

[LostInAnomie]

20. Indiana has a huge problem with "brain drain".

Many of our best and brightest leave the state to find jobs or to get away from all the backwards Bible-thumpers.

We also have a very homogeneous, rural population. They have very little contact with other cultures or points of view and tend to fear anything different. You have never seen people more concerned with "God, Guns, and Gays" than here in Southwestern Indiana.

[BuddhaGirl]

21. where are you located?

I have relatives in Evansville, Mt. Vernon, Newburgh and New Harmony...I have visited there several times - it's a very pretty area.

[LostInAnomie]

28. I live a little bit north of Evansville.

In Princeton. It is a pretty area and the people are nice but politically it is nauseating.

[mdpod]

23. Moved to Boston last year from Indiana.

I am from Indiana (born in Evansville) but left when I was 19, went back when I was 29 and presently live in Boston. I could not wait to get out of there. I don't know what is going on with Indiana. A previous post noted in 1996 Indiana went against Clinton while its neighbors went for him. 2004 election was surprising with 44% for Kerry, if I am correct. I enjoyed reading the previous posts. Hey Hippiechick, why did you move there?

[EFerrari]

36. Welcome to DU, mdpod.

:hi:

[mdpod]

48. Thank you.

[suziedemocrat]

43. I'm moving to Massachusetts next month.

Hope I like it. I'll be up by the New Hampshire border.

[mdpod]

47. You will.

I had always wanted to visit the New England states. I am currently a student without a car and I love it. The public transportation is incredible. It is more expensive but well worth it. So much to do. I still haven't visited Vermont, NH or Maine yet but I will. I may just end up settling in the area.

[Zynx]

44. No, Bush won Indiana by over 20%.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

[mdpod]

46. Thanks for link. Sorry for wrong info but

now that I think about it, I do believe at one point before the 2004 election Kerry was polling at 44%. This was very surprising to me.

[Sir Jeffrey]

25. Indiana was the birthplace of eugenics in the US...

snip

"Most Americans think of eugenics as something that happened a long time ago in Nazi Germany. What many are not aware of is that eugenics is a very real part of the past of both Indiana and the United States. Indiana, in fact, was the first state to pass a “sterilization statute,” which authorized surgical sterilization of citizens seen as a threat to the nation’s gene pool, whether they were deemed criminally insane, “feeble-minded,” afflicted with “pauperism,” or otherwise undesirable.

This Web site is dedicated to the history of eugenics in Indiana, a topic of which, as an integral part of the past of Indiana, every Hoosier should have a basic understanding. You will discover that Indiana was one of the leaders in the "improvement of the human race." The proponents of eugenics at the time considered their work humanitarian, yet from today’s perspective, their methods seem drastic, and even cruel. "


http://www.kobescent.com/eugenics/

[Awsi Dooger]

41. A midwestern state minus the big cities

That's already been mentioned several times. For reference purposes, just look at the number of votes in the state. Indiana had less than 2.5 million votes in '04, compared to almost double that for Michigan and more than double that for Illinois and Ohio.

If you uprooted and airlifted a few huge metro areas into the state it would probably be similar to the states surrounding it.

Meanwhile, it looks hopeless on the presidential level whenever I check the exit polls: 89% white, 46% Republican in party ID, and 42% conservatives.

[Zynx]

45. Wisconsin doesn't have any really big cities either.

Milwaukee County has hardly anymore people than Marion County. Lake County has as many people as Dane County. It's more than just an urban/rural dichotomy.

[nemo137]

61. I think it's the type of city.

Madison is the archetypal "college town," while Milwaukee (one of my favorite places on the planet) is the archetyal Rust Belt town. Indiana has, really, neither.

[joemurphy]

66. Bloomington and South Bend. n/t

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

49. Born and Raised a Hoosier

Indiana is a strange state politically. I had the benefit of having a European mother to balance things out. Indiana votes Dem for most of their local offices but, red nationally. It's very frustrating. They vote against their own best interests most of the time.

The cities are far more liberal than the rural areas. Indianapolis, Gary(large African American community), Ft. Wayne and Evansville are far less conservative than the rural areas. The southern half of the state may as well be part of the Kentucky "hillbilly" areas. It is very backward and isolated as most of the interstates run in the north. If you aren't in a major city, you're most likely a farmer raising crops (corn and soybeans)and livestock (hogs, cattle and horses). These rural individuals are most likely very religious (mostly Evangelicals or fundamentalists) and simple people. Most of my family there fall into this category however, they're mostly methodist and vote dem. They like the simplicity of their lives and want nothing more than to continue this tradition. They all live within 15 miles of each other. However, some are seeing the very non-christian attitudes of the current situations. They may not be as educated as some but, they aren't stupid. They just like their little bubble. They work very hard and believe others should too.

As far as racism goes, it's definitely there. In the north it's far more hidden than in the southern part of the state. I think that has more to do with the fact that there just isn't any diversity in those areas. African Americans just don't live in rural Indiana. Rural schools tend to be all white. It's much easier to be racist if you've never encountered someone of a different race.

It's easy for the GOP to keep Hoosiers in check. Speak to their faith. Tell them that the big bad liberals want to change their way of life. Tell them that the liberals want to give their hard earned money to those slackers who won't work.

If the Dem's want to win in Indiana, tell them that their crops will increase in value with the development of alternative fuels like bio diesel and ethanol. Tell them that farm subsidies will no longer be given to the "Corporate farms" and "corporate meat factories". Let them know that the little farmers are important too.

[B Calm]

54. Stupid people.. Not much more I can say about these idiots, other

than the further south you go in this damn state, the redder it gets. You will also notice more protruding forheads and very few teeth in their mouths too..

[stuartrida]

60. Thanks for the information.

The lack of cities seems to make a difference. So my next question is, why do people who live in cities tend to be more progressive? I'll save that for a different thread!

[Ariana Celeste]

67. I live in Plainfield, IN

Far as I can tell the majorly red areas must be the smaller towns and farm areas... maybe it has something to do with the fact my town is growing fast and is right outside of Indianapolis.... but I don't find myself surrounded by Freeper types. Seems the more I talk to people, the more centrist my area appears.

As to why it's so red.... Indiana doesn't have a very large population and it certainly doesn't have very many large cities. Every area of Indiana that has larger concentrations of people, leans farther left. It's still too conservative here for me, but I've grown affectionate towards the state nonetheless.