Conservatives Without a Conscience by John dean

[nadinbrzezinski]

folks if you have not Read this book, or listened to it on tape... you absolutely need to. It EXPLAINS so much about our dear leader and his entourage and how we got here.

Every progressive and student of political science must read this book as well as every "real conservative." After all there are eight types of Cons and the movement ain't that long... my my this old horse even learned something of interest. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT quite Edmund Burke for it does not apply to these people. Now Leo Strauss, absolutely but not to all... only Neocons... and of course there are the theocons, the sociocons, the paleo cons, etcetera. We will see a wonderful break up once they finally loose power... assuming they do... but you truly should read this book.

I fear to go even futher into it, for fear if giving it away... but you definitely must read this.

Nadin

[opihimoimoi]

1. Without reading the book, I hazard a guess: The Pubs are evil posed as

Conservatives...a term to hide their Selfishness/Domination/Control/Arrogance/ etc etc

They think they should run the World....and they have invested themselves in the BUSHCO....which , it turns out, is their undoing...but they are tenacious...they keep trying....

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. No, it is not that simple

must of the material he relies on is the research on authoritarian personalities done of the last fifty years.

By the way the people who did the research did not do this for partisan ends... so I will stay away from the partisan language here.

1.- Sheep are real, they are a type of personality. In fact, as I listened to the book I had to finally admit to myself... my dad does not watch Fox news because it is easier to understand. (His primary language is Ydish, followed by Polish and English comes a very distant last). He watches Fox news because like any sharing this personality type is comforted by its simplicity and absolutes. He would probably agree with the statement that the nation needs a strong leader to get out of the mess it is in right now. Granted, he does not vote here, and only comes to visit, but it told me.. politics is NOT something to discuss because he will not agree with me because my personality is NOT Right Authoritarian. By the by, in the US they tend to be hard right, but in the Soviet Union they supported the hard left, why? not partisan, established authorities. These folks tend ot be also among your fundies.. by the way among the sheep the ones who scored high (your thirty something percent, the tracking is that close)... will never admit the US made a mistake in Iraq... they are the same ones who believed we could have won in Nam

2.- Then you have the leadership type. these people tend to take charge of the situation and do things as they need to. They know the sheep will follow. They also are people who believe in the end justify the means and all... but also religious, as in fundy in nature

3.- Finally you come to a group that scares high on both tests... those are the truly scary types for they will do anything to get ahead and are your archetypal fascist.

There is very little research on both the leaders and the third type, the truly scary ones... but what there is, Dean used. He did not anted to go down that road either.

One question he asked is, can there be fascists in a democracy? And he did not mean this as partisan but political science question... yes, and he gave examples (delay and Hastert as well as Bush and Cheney, who are your third type, the truly scary type)

Of course the history sections and how they use history are also faxscinating.

Read it, it should be required.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Yes, I see your point and agree... What Dean describes seems to

delve into why we are what we are.....

Now, I gatta go get the book, LOL

[upi402]

2. i wonder if god will be sorting them out

i don't.
i hate them all with a brand new *special* kind of hate that i never knew i had!
:bounce:

[longship]

3. Reading it now.

It's devastating. Were it only that more Republicans were like Dean.
Of course, then we would not be in our current situation.

I keep waiting for somebody to step forward to lead us out of this dark age.

[BeHereNow]

4. "to step forward to lead us out of this dark age."

Don't hold your breath.
Such people have a tendency to end up
suicided or such...Paul Wellstone, for instance.
The so called "representatives" of we, the people, are,
for the most part criminals worthy of being tried for treason
against this country.
BHN

[mmonk]

5. I have it. I rate it and George Lakoff's "Whose Freedom?"

very high on trying to understand the "conservatives" of today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Next on my list I think

Lakoff's book who is also quoted by Dean

[mmonk]

8. If more democratic strategists got Lakoff's book,

they would learn about issue framing, why the dems have been losing, and how to win the next election. Moving right is not the solution.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Correct, I got his primer a while back

but I am going to say somethign that the strategists will not like... framing is hard work, and they are not willign to do that... or even willing to accept that it is real

[alfredo]

10. I agree. It is essential reading.

[H2O Man]

12. It's a wonderful book.

I would suggest that those interested in the general topic would enjoy the works of Erich Fromm. In particular, his 1955 book "The Sane Society" examines the concepts of the authoritarian mindset. Another brief writing that takes a look at this is Fromm's delightful introduction to A. S. Neill's 1959 classic "Summerhill."

Dean is an insightful man, and it is fascinating to find out that this very educated and curious fellow was not familiar with the general topic before. But it has certainly clicked for him now, and the book is of great value in that it brings the issue to the table today .... and may even get readers to look to some of yesterday's warnings .... Fromm's writings are, in a way, a bit like Ike's warnings about the threats posed by the m.i.c.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Can I add the True Believer here

Another essential book in the list of things that people NEED to read

[H2O Man]

14. One of my favorite

things about DU is having people recommend books worth reading. There is a good reason that the Founding Fathers included a free press in the Bill of Rights. Reading is not only a "right" -- it is our responsibility as citizens if we expect democracy to be a living force in our society.

Thank you for this thread.

[leesa]

15. It is an excellent book. These are some scary (and scared) people

The problem is that as the world becomes more complex, they just become more susceptible to fascist leaders. This book compelled me to read Dean's other book 'Worse Than Watergate', which is also fantastic. It is amazing that someone can put their crimes in print and it is just ignored.