Do you ever ask RW acquaintances whether they feel shrub's power should be

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

limited in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER? Explore that in conversation with examples (power to arbitrarily throw anyone, American or otherwise, in prison without charges indefinitely, to torture, etc.)?

If they think his power should be "unlimited" because of the "war on terror" then ask how this is in any way different than the power of the worst tyrants and despots of world history? And how this squares with the idea of freedom from tyranny, and democracy in America?

Since there is no endpoint to the war on terror, are these dictatorial powers then to be maintained forever?

It's supposed to be okay because we must TRUST him, because he's a "good man"? How does this square with how we're supposed to be a nation of laws and not men? What happens when someone not as "trustworthy" is in office? Then we have to reinstate all the laws and Constitution that we used to care about?

What do they have to say about all this? :shrug:

[Greeby]

1. I think President Gore laid out the most chilling example

"The Dean of Yale Law School, Harold Koh, said after analyzing the Executive Branch's extravagant claims of these previously unrecognized powers: "If the President has commander-in-chief power to commit torture, he has the power to commit genocide, to sanction slavery, to promote apartheid, to license summary execution."" :scared:

[ewoden]

2. My rw Acquaintances don't respond at all . . .

you see I only talk to them when the radio is unplugged and they can't hear Rush et al. That way they merely look at me, cock their heads to one side, wag their tails, and slobber on the carpet.

[leftstreet]

3. I know many Repub "voters," although they're not wingnuts

And they're VERY upset by the Administration power-grab

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

4. So is this likely to change their voting patterns at all, if nothing else,

just as ANY kind of check on shrubco's power, even if they aren't enthused by Dems?

Or are they just gonna support the same Repubs, even if "holding their nose"?

[leftstreet]

5. Some yes, some no

I fear some are just waiting for McCain. Party loyalty.

But others (the ones more likely to follow news regularly) have made statements from "I'd vote for that John Murtha" to SHOCKINGLY "I hope Al Gore runs again." And they'll go on and on about Gore's MLK-day speech, complaining they don't understand why the papers and networks aren't talking about it.

Weird rumblings from mostly moderate to conservative Repubs. I've been hearing many of them say "why are they making abortion and gays so important - what's that got to do with anything?" for some time.

But the illegal wiretapping seems to have brought out real anger.