Salt Lake Trib :Utahns: Dissent aids enemies

[LoKnLoD]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4248560

When Rocky Anderson and Cindy Sheehan speak out against President Bush and his policies Wednesday, they probably will be cheered by thousands who agree. But more Utahns will see them as aiding the enemies of the United States, according to a poll conducted for The Salt Lake Tribune. Forty-five percent of poll respondents said war protesters such as Sheehan and Anderson aid U.S. enemies. Just 27 percent embrace the alternative view - that they "play an important role in the national debate over U.S. policy in Iraq."

I hate all the dumbasses that live here. I will be there with my "DO THE COUNTRY A FAVOR AND RESIGN AND TAKE CHENEY/RUMSFIELD WITH YOU" sign. Look for me on the news :9

LOL...

"Joe Cannon, the Utah Republican Party chairman, expects to see more than the party faithful Wednesday. "Across Utah, regular people from all parties and all walks of life agree with President Bush's principles of strong family values, lower taxes that spur economic growth and a strong defense of our freedoms," he said in a prepared statement.
Evans anticipates "thousands" will attend, but also tried to lower expectations about the turnout. "As Republicans, we're the ones that pay the bills and keep society working. Our natural venue is not taking to the streets."

[AX10]

1. Utah is a fascist state. They are NOT America.

[newspeak]

5. most who have been indoctrinated in the Mormon church

follow the dictates of the church. I've lived in Utah-the church controls your life-I remember my boss telling me that their bishop told him that his wife needed to quit her job, she shouldn't be working. My hubby's aunt and uncle are Mormons (they are the independent thinking kind) and he remembers going into the bishop's office with his cousin and the bishop told his young cousin that he wasn't tithing enough (he mowed lawns). Some are not curious or inquisitive enough to find the truth, they just take things at face value, whatever they're told. They make good little warriors because they never question what they are told to do by authority. To me, the church is like a corporation, structurally and mentally. The members are like good corporate clones, and the church is very, very pro-business. I have another story from a co-worker. He was one who wrestled with his beliefs, came from a generational mormon family, anyway he worked for one of the garment making church industries, anyway, he was let go because his boss stated he wasn't "worthy" enough to be working there.

[AX10]

8. The Catholic Church operates in the same manner.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

12. Thats not true.

It is just repeated a lot.

[newspeak]

13. the Catholic church does not have as much influence

as it once had. The further away from Utah, the further away from the strict controlling aspect. I mean fellow church members ratting on each other to the church, the family dynamic is completely controlled by the church. Mormon church history is very interesting and very violent-someone knowing of the history, I don't know why they'd want to be a part of it. Oh well, each to their own, but not when it goes away from the very foundations of our democratic republic, away from our Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[lyonn]

20. Was a Mormon once myself

This was in Calif. and years ago, maybe they are a bit different than Utah, but, you must tithe 10% or you lack real faith. They were very nice people but the teachings became hard for me to believe. Critical thought after high school changed and then, after trying to find the right church, decided there wasn't one.

[Warpy]

14. It certainly USED to

Every Catholic knew you had to go to a Catholic doctor, a Catholic dentist, a Catholic mechanic, and so on. You could only patronize business outside the church if nobody at church was IN that business.

It wasn't a formal law, it was just one of those unspoken understandings, and I imagine it's the same with most churches.

I have no idea how it is now, but I doubt much has changed except that savvy parishoners go to the best, not the most pious.

[AX10]

18. The Church leaders would like it to still be that way.

[Cleita]

19. Except they keep the money.

At least the Mormons use their money to create businesses and jobs. Everytime I have been in Utah, I am impressed with what appears on the surface to be plenty of prosperity.

[newspeak]

26. yes, if you are mormon

if you receive aid from the church, you must attend, at least their seminary. I played on their girls basketball team and was required to attend their seminary-they have competitive volleyball and basketball with other wards. After going to two seminary classes, I said forget it. I just related the story above about my friend who wasn't worthy enough (even though he is generational mormon) to work for said business. The mormon church has done charitable work, but most charity comes with conditions, not all, but most.

[newspeak]

29. I have to comment on your prosperity quote

Utah is a "right to work" state. They are not a pro-union or pro-labor state. I worked for the State of Utah, and the Salt Lake Tribune carried on front page an article about how many state workers also received food stamps because their wage could not support the family. Their state income tax is as high as California's, even though you have a majority of Repukes in the state senate. There is a state tax on food and in tourist areas, the state sales tax is over 7.50%.

[Cleita]

33. What I said was that it "looked" prosperous. I never stayed

long enough to find out for sure because the everyday godspeak in interacting with the locals got to me. However, when you compare how it looks on the surface to northeastern Nevada and a lot of Idaho, Utah does look prosperous. I do find that Utah is a theocracy and wonder why the feds haven't cracked down on the state for ignoring the separation of church and state spelled out in the Constitution of the nation.

[newspeak]

36. wasn't getting down, just imparting some info.

Utah, historically, is like the willful child--if you read some history on Utah, there have been disputes between the state (before it was a state) and the federal government. There's a joke in Utah, about drawing straws to see who is going to be the Republican or the Democrat-the short straw has to be the Democratic candidate. Utah had to ban their polygamous practices before becoming a state (there's still polygamy in Utah). Utah is very much under theocratic influence. Idaho also has a very heavy Mormon influence and so does Nevada. Nevada balances itself out and there are a lot of different people who move to the Vegas area, but Northern Nevada, especially northeast part of the state is mormon influence. My mom lives in Idaho and I tell her I do not like visiting there (no offense to some Idahoans) but it makes my skin crawl. She lives in southern Idaho, which also has a mormon influence-and the area she's around is very prejudice, very republican. I guess Boise being a college city and bigger may be much different than what I experienced in southern Idaho.

[Sapphocrat]

37. For the most part, yes.

But if you ever get a chance, Cleita, take a drive to the furthest outskirts of Salt Lake City, about 5, 10 miles out. I did once, more than 15 years ago, and I was stunned by the abject poverty -- literally shacks, junked cars... Beats me as to why it was that way, since Mormons are so big on taking care of their own; maybe what I saw belonged to the excommunicated.

I'd be curious to know if the situation is the same, or if things have improved.

[Cleita]

38. DH and I used to travel through Utah as fast as we could going

someplace else. Since he died, I don't travel anymore. It's no fun going alone. Sometimes we had to do an overnight in SLC or Logan, which is when we had to interact with the locals. It's also gotta be the whitest of white people there as well. I wonder if it's because of the isolation when the original pioneers settled there that set the gene pool in motion. I suppose there is more diversity and freedom of expression around Park City since the movie crowd took over although I have never been there.

[lyonn]

39. Had to laugh at your comment about shacks and the

excommunicated! I needed a laugh.

[bluemarkers]

2. I never knew that

"As Republicans, we're the ones that pay the bills and keep society working. Our natural venue is not taking to the streets."


oh thank you Republicans for keeping "society working" you are doing a heck of a job



:sarcasm: <- as if I needed to add that

[SammyWinstonJack]

11. If that's true and it isn't, Mr. Dumbass RepubliCON, please explain

this, the red state are the largest recipients of Federal tax dollars, while the blue states are the greatest contributors of Federal tax dollars. Who are the ones paying the bills again? Why do they also have some of the highest divorce rates? Some great family values there. I swear repugs will say ANYTHING, even if the facts prove otherwise.

[lyonn]

23. Amen Bue State native

[lyonn]

25. Opps, double post

[lyonn]

21. That remark got to me also - they pay the bills?

[warrens]

3. Like Joe Hill said, just before they shot him

"I wouldn't be caught dead in Utah" after explaining he wanted his ashes scattered across all states except Utah.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

4. It plays like an old country western song

They never seem to change.

[liberalmuse]

6. I was so mad when I read that this morning...

Anyone who believes that dissent hurts America would be better suited to a facist, totalitarian form of government, than our Constitutional democracy. Dissent IS Constitutional, and one of the great privilages of being an American. Squelching dissent is anti-American, yet these fucktards claim to be true Americans when they don't even bother to educate themselves on what 'America' or 'The Constitution' is about. They are simply too stupid to grasp the concept of 'FREEDOM' and do not deserve it. They would have positively thrived as Hitler's minions, but alas, where born 60 years too late.

[LoKnLoD]

10. I sent the writer an email this morning after reading it

"In this article you state, 45% say that anti-Bush rallies more harm
than good, and just 27 percent embrace the alternative view - that
they "play an important role in the national debate over U.S. policy
in Iraq." . No where in your article do you state what the other 28%
of the 625 voters responded. Are the FULL results of this poll posted
online anywhere, besides your article? I fail to see how you can speak
for all Utahns in your headline with the results of this poll, 45%
certainly is less that half of the population, and these 45% certainly
don't speak for me."

[liberalmuse]

15. Thank you!

I hope you get a response. I was wondering how 45% translated into 'Most Utahns'.

[Benhurst]

7. The United States of America

Forty-nine States and One Cult
e pluribus unum

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. We would still be fighting in Vietnam if these jerks got their way.

For that matter we would all be British citizens too.

[ComerPerro]

27. you used the right word, too. "We", not them

their asses wouldn't be fighting.

[walldude]

16. Aiding the enemies... yeah right.

You know Utah ought to clean up their own yard before they start shitting in mine. They can start by fixing their goddamn roads and lowering their gas prices. I drove through there last week on my way to L.A. the roads are trashed and I paid $3.30 for regular unleaded in the lovely town of Beaver.

[newspeak]

22. those in the church believe that you shouldn't drink coffee, tea or

alcoholic beverages because your body is your temple; but if you buy stocks in a certain cola company then caffeine is okay. A couple of my friends drink cola in the morning to jump start with a caffeine kick-- Cause they can't drink coffee or tea. It seems the government in Utah doesn't particularly care about Utahns' health because they've approved certain industries into the state that are very unhealthy (CDC lab, nuclear dump, etc...) There are some mormons who are environmentalists, and since I've left Utah there's been big disputes about drilling in the most beautiful habitats (Canyonlands area). And, in some areas, you can see how national parks have eroded since this administration took office. I think Utah is its' own enemy

[lyonn]

28. Same here, on way back from CA

The traffic was insane in Salt Lake. Got to hotel and mentioned the traffic and the guy at the desk said words to the effect it is a free for all on the highways and if you don't keep up with the flow, be it 90 mph, you are in trouble, even ticketed. His words not mine, damn, I felt lucky to be alive as I'm old and had no idea where I was and how to get off the highway. My daughter and grand daughter were proud of me and my driving skills under the circumstances. They usually don't let me drive. Ha.

[LoKnLoD]

32. Those gas prices are

the sin tax they impose on everyone going to Mesquite and Vegas to gamble.

:party:

[lyonn]

17. Smug bast&rds

How many times are we going to hear, "strong family values" before the election. I'm a damn athiest and I just love my family and hate it when things don't go well within the family. The repubs hammer athiest, socialism which means to me you don't let the "dead body lay in the street until the dogs get it" (if the City doesn't do the job who will??) example. We are not a socialist society, but we should care about the other guy when they get piled on. What is and has happened to inner city schools? They have very little money, they build big schools to house the student and there is no sense of community, neighborhood, etc. Build smaller schools in the citys' poor communities and build some pride and sense of belonging.

Help for college education is Low on bush's list. Poor pay for teachers, cops, all the people that keep America moving and safe. Screw them, hire illegals and let the guy who was a roofer, brick layer, etc. who was trying to provide for his family go pull himself up by his own bootstraps. Ugh. I hate what our govt. has become.

[chat_noir]

24. Utah - Chickenhawk Capital of the United States

Recruits in Utah are fewer but richer

WASHINGTON - Utah ranked near the bottom of states and territories for the number of young adults joining the ranks of military service in 2004, newly released data show.

The reason: Service to God sometimes trumps service to country.

Utah came in 50th out of 50 states, five territories and the District of Columbia in the per capita rate of 18- to 24-year-olds signing up for the Army, Navy and Air Force, according to the nonprofit, nonpartisan National Priorities Project.

Most other states surrounding Utah enlisted far more recruits, a situation observers say is born out of Utahns in that age group serving missions for the LDS Church at a time when youths in other states might be joining the military. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-days Saints counts about 70 percent of Utahns on its rolls and encourages all eligible young men to serve two-year missions.

So let me put this in perspective. Utahns support George W. Bush (and hence, his illegal, immoral and ill-advised War in Iraq) by a greater percentage (61%) than any other state. Yet, for all that chest-thumping and keyboard-pounding, they enlist in the military to fight the misbegotten war less per capita than any other state. Far less.

That, gentle reader, makes Utah the Official Chickenhawk Capital of the United States.


http://partridge.net/blog/?p=196

[lyonn]

30. Good points, loyalities to Church above service to country

Did not know Utah ranked that low on enlistments. They are saying, you go, I have a mission to god, yet, vote for war.

[grateful581]

48. I always bring this up this fact

Most utah republicans want war just as long as they don't fight in it.
what a bunch of spineless cowards.

[bluestateguy]

31. Um, OK

Utah is not a part of my America. I'm proud to write it off.*

*No, I am not calling for writing off all of the red states, only a few of the hopelessly blood red states like Utah.

[TheFriedPiper]

34. More evidence for why we shouldn't vote for crazy people

and should only support those who are grounded in reality.

[helderheid]

35. I'm looking forward to seeing you there!

:hi:

[helderheid]

40. I JUST got the program emailed to me!

Rev. Tom Goldsmith, Master of Ceremonies


10:30-11:00 a.m. - Prelude music (members of Blue Haiku, plus a few special guests)


11:00 a.sm. -
Aaron Davis - Veterans For Peace
Katy Taylor – her partner is currently serving in Iraq
Doug Wildfoerster – WWII vet and a Legionnaire.


11:15 performance by members of Blue Haiku


11: 25
Tala Fakhouri – Utahns for a Just Peace in the Holy Land
Isaac Giron – will speak on Immigration Rights
Bob Brister – Green Candidate for Congress will speak on the Environment


11:45 performance by Rich Wyman


11:55
Gil Iker – a Green Beret
Debra Daniels – Director. Women's Center at the University of Utah
Erica Torres – will speak on Immigration Rights, is a member of MECHA


12:15 – performance by SLC Slam Poets


12:20
Cindy Sheehan
Mayor Rocky Anderson


12:45 – March to Federal Building - Delivery of Citizen Grievances

WOOT Cindy will be here even post hysterectomy operation! What a woman!!

[newspeak]

41. if your looking for progressives in Utah

it's Salt Lake City, Park City and Moab. Rocky is a really progressive mayor--and you can see, he follows his conscience. I hope they have a HUGE turnout!!!!!

[helderheid]

42. Well I'll be a part of the crowd. Here's another good place to go:

www.udpc.org

I live in a very red suburb of SLC

[newspeak]

43. you've been in SLC long?

I have friends who now reside in Moab that grew up in SLC--a couple of my friends attend a women's gathering that's a couple of days every year. Do you know the shop "Fertile Ground?"

[helderheid]

45. I've been here 5 years (but was born in Utah) - The name sounds

familiar but I can't say I know it.

[grateful581]

47. thanks for the post

I was wondering what the schedule was.

I will be there.

The republican sheep in my state can go to hell!

[PresidentWar]

44. I'm a Utah Progressive

And will be there with vid camera.

[helderheid]

46. Welcome to DU! Feel free to sign up with the Utah Democratic Progressive

Caucus if you haven't already: www.udpc.org

[helderheid]

49. Don't forget "Rock Against Rumsfeld" Evening, August 30

"Rock Against Rumsfeld"


An evening of music in Pioneer Park


6:00 p.m. - 8:00 p.m.


Guest speakers: Rocky Anderson and Debbie Johnson


What a great way to wrap up a Rally Day!! **Be there**