Boulder PD Deserve more Contempt than Karr

[Mike03]

I was a bit taken aback to sign on tonight and see so many posts suggesting Karr be sued, etc, for the cost of extradition.

I'm no fan of this guy, but it was OBVIOUS from day two that he was not a serious suspect in the murder of Jon Benet Ramsey. This guy needs psychiatric help. If anyone should pay the taxpayers back, it is the morons at the Boulder Police Department, who can't do a single thing right. They could have tested this man's DNA without issuing a single press release, without holding self-congratulatory press conferences, without extradition procedings--without any of this! Karr is probably a delusional psychotic in dire need of help. I don't agree that he should be let loose. He should be remitted to a psychiatric wing for complete evaluation and treated as need be.

I don't understand why people are furious at an obviously ill man, when the real imbeciles are the cretins in Boulder who fell for this obvious hoax in the first place!!! (And the incredibly stupid media).

Please explain.

[IChing]

1. Here you go.

[im10ashus]

2. Mind if I join you?

[IChing]

7. nope

[Mike03]

39. Forgive me, but

I'm surprised to see someone with a Buddha icon express that disregard for any human being. That is one reason I am so conflicted, is because this is my tenth year practicing Buddhism and I struggle with these issues. Shortly after the Iraq war broke out I was even lectured (in a friendly way) by a fellow Buddhist here on my hatred towards Cheney...

Is it OK to feel hatred, ridicule or indifference towards sick, stupid people as a Buddhist? It would make me feel very relieved if you reply yes to this answer, because I am struggling to get over the feeling that 85% of the human race are, in fact, morons. If it is OK, as a Buddhist, to feel negative emotions towards ghouls like Bush, Cheney and anyone, by all means let me know! This revelation would be a huge weight off my shoulders, because I do tend to harbor animosity towards people who do evil things. I have been searching for a teacher for years and have not had the pleasure of meeting a true one.

Thanks in advance, fellow Buddhist.

[salinen]

3. Yup

[spindrifter]

4. You are right!

Most police agencies know how to go about getting DNA without making it the Media Event of the fortnight--and it doesn't make any difference that the guy was in another country.
You are also right that Mr. Karr needs an evaluation and he probably needs treatment. I do not think he will pass the danger to self or others test currently, though. So, it would have been better, most likely, if the authorities charged him with something like obstruction, if they have enough to get that charge, so maybe he could have some court-ordered psychological/psychiatric care.

[Mike03]

13. Thank you

I appreciate at least getting one response by someone who understands what I am saying.

This man is definitely a creep.
He is definitely not someone I would want to meet or for my niece to meet on the street.

But he was an obvious fake, and the BPD and media made jackasses of themselves pretending this was a serious development in a ten year old homicide investigation.

[H2O Man]

5. What mental disorder

would you suggest he suffers from?

[Mike03]

8. Psychosis of some kind

Pedophilia, obviously. Maybe I'm way off base, I'm just angrier at the BPD and media for even falling for this in the first place.

Probably, I should not have even started this thead. If people were not so gullible, I don't think they would be so shocked and amazed that this guy didn't kill that child.

[acmejack]

15. The world has too many amateur Psychologists as it is.

Do you think Mr Karr is well? Then again mental wellness is a rather nebulous concept, the more one considers it.

[H2O Man]

36. Well, of course

psychologists aren't the only folks who diagnose mental illness. And I'd propose that the better professionals wouldn't go out on a limb, and say what he is or isn't based on the tidbits in the media.

I've thought before that he seems to have some characteristics associated with a schizoid personalty. One could debate if that is in any real sense a "disorder" or "mental illness," as much as it is a personality type. It can include things such as preoccupation with fantasy and introspection, and a sense of being a spectator rather than a participant in the greater society.

Again, I'm not saying he is schizoid, or that he is "well." I've only seen him on tv, and read a few articles about him. I've also discussed the case with professionals in the forensic mental health field, and some retired federal investigators. It seemed clear that he is a disturbed person, potentially dangerous for any small children he comes into contact with, but certainly not the killer of the little girl in question.

[LostinVA]

20. I'm not a psychiatrist, but I'm betting it's something

The man is skeevy and creepo... but he always seems very Unwell, in a non-sociopathic way.

[spindrifter]

44. I don't think we can give him the old armchair dx.

A psychologist should have an opportunity to review his records, including from childhood, and do some interviewing if possible. I certainly haven't felt the need to read much about Mr. Karr, but there are a number of diagnoses that may be appropriate.

[Evergreen Emerald]

6. he had a warrant for his arrest on child porn charges

In another jurisdiction. He would have been brought back anyway.

[Mike03]

11. Ugggg

I wasn't aware of that.

Um, can I change the title of this thread?

[karlrschneider]

26. They are saying the porn charges were misdemeanors.

I don't want to seem to be defending the guy but whatever he was possessing must not have been
all that horrific or they would have filed felony charges?....he does seem to be a pretty batshit
nuts character but ....oh shit, never mind. I don't know what to think.

[LostinVA]

29. No, I feel the same as you

I'm totally not defending him -- but misdemeanor child porn charges? I am curious to know what was found, since they aren't felonies.

[karlrschneider]

30. There is also the subtle but very real legal distinction between

pornography and obscenity. Although nowadays that line seems to have become blurred somewhat.
I'm trying to remember who first said (a Supreme Justice, I believe) "I can't define it but I know it when I see it..."

[LostinVA]

38. I am very curious to know what tye charges are specifically

No, I don't mean in graphic detail *shudder*

I've read the DA's "motion to quash" online -- and Karr is one sick psychotic dude, imo.... but that doesn't mAke him guilty. The Sono,moa people said he would probably get time served, probation, and sex offender registration in the CA charges.

[TheCowsCameHome]

41. ......better that than mrdemeanors, I guess.

What a nutty case from day 1.

[H2O Man]

22. The charges

are misdemeanors. The state would not have attempted extradition, nor sent police to bring him back from a foreign country for that level of charge. In this case, of course, he was not extradicted; the foreign country deported him, and police accompanied him to US soil, where he was taken into custody. They invested the money to do this because of the nature of the potential charges.

[LostinVA]

23. Misdemeanor charges -- he wouldn';t have been brought back

He WASN'T brought back... Karr wasn't extradited. Countries don't extract people for misdemeanor charges.

[Evergreen Emerald]

34. Here is the latest

http://cbs5.com/local/local_story_240201735.html

Sonoma County Seeks Extradition Of John Karr

(AP) SANTA ROSA Sonoma County prosecutors took the highly unusual step Monday of seeking the extradition of John Mark Karr on child pornography charges after the case against him for JonBenet Ramsey's murder collapsed.

Karr was arrested in Petaluma in 2001 and pleaded not guilty to five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography. But he fled before he could be tried and still faces an outstanding warrant in Sonoma County.

[H2O Man]

37. That is, of course,

from one state to another, not from an overseas country.

[LostinVA]

40. I heard that this is VERY unusual

And is only being done because of people baying for blood, so to speak. Hmmm...

[Jed Dilligan]

9. Just a number of typical American tics:

1. The police may be wrong, but they are never to be blamed.

2. Sex offenders are not sick people who deserve to be treated; they are the embodiment of evil and they should just be tortured to death or something.

3. Anyone who enjoys luxury products in any context is the sworn enemy of the down-home, up-by-the-bootstraps, cracker-barrel, puritanical values that make us American.

Shake those three up in a typical American, and you have a regular hootenanny of grievance.

[rocktivity]

10. I think HE was the one doing the hoaxing.

And if the charges he's being extradited to California for hold up, he's got a built-in insanity defense. Crazy as a fox, he is.

:headbang:
rocknation

[blonndee]

12. I agree he needs help, but it's hard to have much sympathy

for him because of the child porn charges. That's not to say I don't think the Boulder PD or the DA or whoever is responsible for this fiasco, including the corpmedia, behaved in a completely irresponsible and idiotic fashion.

[Mike03]

16. Yeah, I agree

I didn't know he was up on child porn charges. That is atrocious.

There's no excuse for that. If he did that, though, why can't he be jailed or tried here in the US? Why are they letting him go?

[QuestionAll...]

14. still can't get over how people get suckered so easily...

especially people here...

as IF this story ever had any relevance to anything - but the threads were popping up like crazy - arguments - accussations - spittle all over.

yes, 'the media' is a total screw-up or valuable tool of distraction or a mix of the two.

But DU is also a medium, and acted way too much like CNN or FOX in grabbing this nonstory and going beserk.

[LostinVA]

17. I agree with you, except for one thing

I honestly think the Boulder DA did NOT want to do this -- I think it went over her head.

The guy wasn't even extradited -- he was deported... which makes me believe the US officials have literally nada to show the Thai officials.

I would love to see what the "damning" emails said...

[Mike03]

24. Thank you

for the clarification. That makes some sense to me, because shortly after the excitement over this development, I recall there were a bunch of statements like "don't get your hopes up" or something like that.

[MoseyWalker]

18. Karr is this election season's distraction

not gay marriage. Pedophiles and sex change and what many people say "eeewwww" over.

I don't usually respond to distraction threads (which this is not, btw), but have to at least have a brief say about this.

Karr is not just transgender/transsexual. He is also most likely an active pedophile. I have no sympathy for pedophiles.

Please try not to have the media put the two together in your mind.

There are at least two different logical ideas to hold onto here.

[Mike03]

19. My Bad

I didn't know there was a warrant out on his arrest for child pornography. Thank you for letting me know that is the case.

So, he is a bad guy, and a mental case.

My only point, and I stand by it, is that the Boulder cops and media are still complete idiots. I guess one positive thing did come out of it, though, which is (as I stated before), to get this man off the streets and get him evaluated and, if possible, helped.

[LostinVA]

25. I don't think he can be a bad guy and a mental case

I think your OP still stands. The guy is clearly sick... I don't think he;s a sociopath -- he's not acting like one at all.

[Mike03]

31. *Blushes*

I became fearful because that post was attacked and withdrew from my belief. I just think the man is sick and needs help, and that society would benefit if he gets help, and gets off the streets.

Thanks for trying to keep me honest. Sometimes I get really intimidated around here. That's why I don't post very often.

[LostinVA]

42. Trust me, I understand!

Sometimes I start to post then stop myself.

No, I agree: he's sick and needs to be off the street if at all possible... but I don't think he CAN be taken off the street.

[Mike03]

43. Thank you

for understanding.

I've seen your posts on other topic threads and really respect and admire you. Thanks for being around here.

[aikoaiko]

21. he can get his care in prison should he be convicted of child porn

I think pretending that one can make a clinical diagnosis form news media is a strech.

[MoseyWalker]

27. He's being charged with misdemeanors

which generally mean up to one day less than a year sentence max in a jail, not a prison. He will be held without bail. It is conceivable that by the time he receives his sentence, it will be time served and probabion on these charges.

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. They should have called in Sen. Frist to do a diagnosis via internet.

Coulda saved a bunch of time, money, and king prawns.

[Mike03]

32. LOL

Thanks for giving me my best laugh since the Howard Stern rerun this morning on Sirius!~

[madokie]

33. I propose letting him pick out his rope we hang him with

just kidding but I feel no compassion for a person who would get himself in a situation of being accused of child molesting and admiting guilt by fleeing the charges. no tears here. imo

[MoseyWalker]

35. He didn't flee molestation charges, in my understanding

He fled misdemeanor child pornography charges. Big difference.

I'm not defending him, but let's try to keep the facts in place. I could be wrong.

[politicat]

45. Back up a bit. Boulder PD is not equipped to deal with this kind of crime.

Look, Boulder has 300,000 residents, of which some 40,000 are students and don't pay into the local tax structure except in terms of sales taxes for the things they buy and property taxes in the form of rent if they're in off campus housing. The university does not pay a dime to support the local infrastructure, putting the town (which is, to be honest, not poor) in the position of policing a hell of a lot of drunken frat-rats and the attendant crime that goes with a university town. Had this case happened in Denver or some other larger, better staffed town, it wouldn't have been so difficult to handle. But Boulder is a small town and the small town mindset of it can't happen here is a fact of life in towns like this one.

But for the most part, Boulder is a really calm, law-abiding community with few murders and relatively little violent crime. (We average less than one murder a year.) Most of the violent crime that does go on in Boulder is of the domestic or acquaintance sort - domestic violence, date rape and the like. In other words, fairly cut and dried cases that are easy to prosecute and don't require a lot of investigative resources... which we don't really have.

I'm not defending BPD - they have some serious issues and well, they're cops. Rather useless gits as far as I'm concerned, but better than the alternative of vigilantism. But most of the force does not live in the community (because housing prices are outlandish) and the case was bungled early on. However, they have done a significantly better job than a lot of equivalently staffed and funded forces. At least they investigated the guy - and that's the thing they needed to do.

It's not the city's fault that the media went batshit over this. They have not been the ones calling the media; they hold as few press conferences as they can get away with and have a strict non-disclosure policy in terms of on-going investigations. They don't call the press, the press badgers them.

[opihimoimoi]

46. He is gonna run for high office, Senator, maybe Govenor...

[Crabby Appleton]

47. It was the DA's office

that filed the charges, not the Boulder PD. The Boulder PD screwed the case up in the beginning, but the DA's office has taken over the case.