What is a bigger problem in America, Rascism or Classism?

[LiberalVoice]

In my opinion the single biggest change to the conservative movement over the past 5 decadesI suppose since the civil rights movement) has been the Republicans(And by Republicans I mean the rich ones in power)predilection for no longer seeing race as the number one issue as to how they vote. Their transitioned flexibility to do the bidding of those with money no matter what color their skin has really been what gave them all their power.

Now granted I know most republican politicians are still rascists at heart, they have learned to put that aside, or at least keep their mouths shut about it more then usual, for the benefit of the party and discriminate more according to socioeconomic status.

Attacking the poor in this country has been a long standing tradition but, the war on the middle class IMO has never been so blatant. I'm interested to read everyones insights on the issue.

[Vidar]

1. I agree with you wholeheartedly. The Republicans are a fat cat party

whose playbook consists of turning back everything FDR, & other reformers, did.

[eccles12]

24. i believe it is racism. But since most people hate to think of themselves

as racist, they will naturally turn to classism. i don't care how wealthy a black man or woman is, there many neighbohoods and clubs where they will not be allowed in. The undercover housing research proves it is racism. When whites with the same or even lower economic status and same or worse credit history applied for housing they were able to have their applications approved while blacks were not. Racism is still chiefly a white/black thing in America. Many may not like brown-skinned immigrants but they will not be discriminated against as will American-born blacks. This is especially true in health care, education, housing, and financial backing.

[AspenRose]

26. I agree.

eom

[Behind the Aegis]

2. They are too closely intertwined.

Both racism and classism are products of the same hate: the hate of "difference." Sadly, it affects all sides and is used by both sides as leverage.

[LiberalVoice]

3. What leverage do those with little money have against those with all of it

Sure we are more in numbers, but if we are kept too dumb to a) realise whats going on, b)care whats going on, or c)do something about it, what leverage do we have?

[Behind the Aegis]

6. it perpetuates the hate.

Think about the messages sent to those "without." The "blacks, Mexicans, etc." are taking your jobs! Thus, racism is propagated. Think about the comments about "poor, white trash," "hillbillies," and "rednecks," all used for poor people and racists. Racism and classism are tightly joined.

So what leverage do the poor people have? They can continue the racism. They will "fall" for the propaganda. They will vote accordingly. Look at the poorest states...what color are they? They are usually "red!"

[NMMNG]

7. "If there was hope, it must lie in the proles,

because only there, in those swarming disregarded masses, eighty-five percent of the population of Oceania, could the force to destroy the Party ever be generated."

"Until the become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they they have rebelled they cannot become conscious."



1984

ppg 60, 61

[Nobody]

17. Exactly. Divide and Oppress N/T

[xchrom]

4. in this country poverty or classism and racism are

conjoined twins.

we still ''direct'' our poverty at people of colour.

and unless we can significantly change education for poorer people it's going to stay that way.

and i'll add -- while i'm a fan, on the one hand, of junior colleges, shifting focus to those education systems means we are locking people into a certain economic status.

i say that because 4 year schools are becoming more and more expensive -- it will price out a good number of folk.

that's a very worrying trend in education and the future of the country -- for my 2 cents.

[Nobody]

5. Racism and classism are intermingled

Both are a huge problem. Much of racism is the assumption that most minorities are poor. Racism assumes that poor people who are neither white or black are assumed to be immigrants, latinos/as are assumed to be illegal, and that poor black people are assumed to be unemployed and on welfare not because they can't find a job but because they won't find one.

Everyone on DU has noticed that the class war is raging in full force as the Republicans in office are doing their best to keep people from economically bettering themselves. And yet the Republicans have made class war a dirty word.

I live in a diverse neighborhood. Every day I see hardworking people of all ethnicities who are ripping the above stereotype to shreds. Even so, it isn't enough to convince the people in power to see minorities and poor people and those who are both as anything other than what they want to see. It makes it easier to make policy decisions that take from the poor and give to the rich.

Racism mixed with classism is ugly. Most of the "isms" can be boiled down to one concept. Person Z thinks they're better than Person Y.

[bliss_eternal]

9. Very well said...

:hi: I agree wholeheartedly.

[FlavaKreemSnak]

10. Because you are more likely to be rich if you are white

If you are rich then you can have whatever you want etc, and people will want to get on your good side no matter what your race is, even if they are secretly racist they will still do it, they will like make an exception, but the problem is that people that are not white are more likely to be low income, I mean I know people always say well there are more poor white people, and it is true, but the percent of people who are not white and low income is more. So you can't just separate them out and say it is class and not race.

But we might find out more about which one is the strongest value with the economy changes from the war on terror because more people will be having a low income lifestyle of all races.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

8. Other: State-ism

[Disturbed]

13. The Biggest Lie.

The Biggest Lie.


“Surely, in the history of lies told to the population, this is the biggest lie. In the history of secrets, withheld from the American people, this is the biggest secret: that there are classes with different interests in this country. To ignore that—not to know that the history of our country is a history of slaveowner against slave, landlord against tenant, corporation against worker, rich against poor—is to render us helpless before all the lesser lies told to us by people in power.” Howard Zinn

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0321-20.htm

[Freedom_from_Chains]

20. The groups that Zinn cites are in fact classes. Only there are only

two classes, the aristocracy, and the peasantry, always has been that way, still is today.

[skids]

11. Other: idiocy. n/t

[Beacho]

12. Racism is part of the equation of class war waged by the monied

Hence they can't be seperated

[liberal N proud]

14. Racism can be dealt with

Classism know no color and people who are seen as lower class are not ever provided the opportunities to help themselves.
Racism has boundaries and can be defined and treated although, not always addressed appropriately, the means are there.

[Tyler Durden]

15. All part of the same illness.

"A man ain't free less he can blow what he pleases."

a reference to Marijuana that can be extrapolated to anything.

The problem in this country and the larger world is that the wealthy have a view of society that says there are only two colors:

Green and everybody else (and I don't mean the "Green Party.")

ALL prejudice is a form of illness, and needs to be treated the same way that leprosy used to be treated: cured or isolated from the healthy parts of society that remain.

Really, isn't it time we stopped picking enemies in our own species? When dogs do this, they get muzzled or put down, and I LIKE dogs more than most people.

As to the "class war," that is a construct of the rich who want to justify their excesses. Time we all started rethinking that little straw man .

[Nozebro]

22. Disagree, counselor.

Rich people don't feel any need to "justify their excesses" to the masses at large. They could care less about that.

[Tyler Durden]

31. I stand corrected!

I forgot that one of the main requirements for being a "One Percenter" in this country was a complete and total lack of empathy with the rest of the "Hoi Polloi."

[Alacrat]

16. We have so far to go, IMO

With classism, education is the key. Uneducated parents are more likely to have uneducated children, it's a never ending cycle. The only way to break that cycle is through education. There are people who see education as conforming, and something bad. Some how that attitude has to be changed. We have to make people see that education is the best way to escape poverty, and achieve the American dream. Racism is a lot like classism, most of the time children learn it from their parents, creating another never ending cycle. Education again, is the key, also calling it out every time it rears it's ugly head. IMO the idea that racism is a white problem only, and other races can't be racist, is dead wrong. Racism cuts both ways. A person of any race, who otherwise isn't a racist can become a racist, if he or she is discriminated against enough by another race. We all need to be tolerant of each other, and treat each other with respect, and kindness every time we have the opportunity to do so. I also don't like the phrase "race card", it sounds like, when all else fails, claim racism. Racism should be called out anytime it occurs, but using it as an excuse every time something happens, causes it to become diluted, and causes real instances of racism too be dismissed, not get the attention it deserves, or be taken as serious as it should be. The current administration is drenched in classism, they have only one class they are concerned with, and they are doing a hell of a job taking care of them. I have no problem, or jealousy of the rich, I just wish they would have the same concern for the rest of us, but I don't see it happening. I can't wait for a change, maybe then, the rest of us will get a little consideration.

[Totally Committed]

18. Although racism is a large component of classism...

both are huge problems that impact our society as a sort of one-two punch. It is the elitism that is at the root of these societal/moral "isms" that is the real threat to this country. As long as only rich white men are allowed to rule and govern, those "isms" will be with us.

TC

[RB TexLa]

19. After last night I would have to say racism, when you have a 100 plus

post with certain DUers screaming that hispanics are "they are raising a flag that ain't 'Merican, uppity, they gittin' UPPITY I tell ya"

[LWolf]

21. I think its classism,

I've noticed that brown and black people who are middle-class and well-educated are perceived, and treated, differently than brown and black people from somewhere lower than "middle."

Not that racism doesn't exist; put all of those who miss the line drawn for "middle class" together, and the perception that the white folks can make it out, and that the brown and black folks can't or won't, is certainly there.

It seems like the class barrier is harder to overcome than the race barrier.

Of course, that's just from my personal (and professional) experience; I don't know if it holds true everywhere.

[Armstead]

23. Classism

Racism is a subset of that.

[Mortos]

25. The divide between rich and poor is growing

The haves rule this country like royalty. They are above the laws they create. I don't think it will change without something dramatic happening.

[patcox2]

27. Insufficient "classism" (WTF?) is the problem.

Class consciousness is the prerequisite for class solidarity and political power. The denial of the fact of socio-economic classes is what keeps the working class powerless. When you ask "why do poor republicans vote against their own economic interests" the answer is because they have been fooled into believing there are no social classes in america.

As for this notion of "classisim," its such a stupid concept, such a half-baked sophomoric twisting of the concept of "class" that its breathtaking to see it mentioned. It seems that "classism" is just the word the PC use when they want to whine about what is really just snobbery. Its meaningless and has no relevance to any political debate.

Class, socioeconomic class, just is. It describes your place in the economy. And awareness of class distinctions, and class solidarity, is essential to a strong democratic party.

[oc2002]

28. Republofacism. Authoritarianism. Imperialism.

Those are what we are afraid is now running the country. King George and his court in Congress, as the MSM jesters fall over each other to please the King while deficating on the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[patcox2]

29. Furthermore, racism is a distraction used to prevent class consciousness.

Do I have to explain everything? Racism is not a subset of "classism," and classism, to the extent I would describe it as class awareness and organized activity on the basis of class to further the interests of that class, is a good thing, not a bad thing (the democratic party is the party of working people, thats pretty classist, isn't it?).

The republicans get poor people to vote against their economic interest by distracting them so they won't develop class consciousness. For the last 40 years the republicans used anti-black racism to distract working voters, mostly southern, from the fact that a working class person voting for a republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. This was known as the Southern Strategy. Lately they have been shifting from anti-black racism to christianity, morality the culture war, and anti-immigrant racism for the same purpose.

We need more classism. Not less.

[omega minimo]

30. 1 yr from NOLA where the 2 converged in televised genocide of black people

this is offensive and an embarrassment celebrating the cluelessness of privileged white people

[stepnw1f]

32. Racism is Huge

but I do think classism has been using racisism to distract poor folks from the real culprits from public scrutiny. Yes... the eefst the wealthy have on our country and society is immense and unfortunately has been negative in the last several years to my knowledge. I know, I know... it's been going on for many many years.