the dems have virtually NO attack machinery, why not?

[mopaul]

the republican's attack machine is awesome to behold, and terrible and swift, but where's our version of an attack strategy? goddam if we don't have PLENTY of ammo, but no desire to use it. what the fuck dems, do "I", mo paul, a schmuck nobody have to tell you how to attack these fuckers?

[xchrom]

1. institutional fear.

individually you will democrats make attack remarks -- but the machinery remains fearful of the right and being blasted as being something it isn't.

''wellfare queens'', ''elitist'', ''liberal'', etc

the repukes have been at work since the seventies building what we see now.

[mopaul]

4. 'turn-the-other-cheek-ism'

it's time to remind the bullies who's in charge.

[Warpy]

21. More like "I got MY tax cut-ism"

Let's face it, party bosses and thieves in Congress have done really well under GOP maladministration. There's not much motive for them to queer the best deal the rich have ever gotten. I suspect they're perfectly content to be shut out of power as long as the money keeps rolling in.

There are still a few real Dems left, of course, but they stick out like sore thumbs and are constantly being attacked by conservatives in the party as being, well, unseemly and intemperate in their comments.

[deutsey]

2. I'm puzzled and pissed off about this too

The old hockey analogy describes it for me:

The Dems always gear up for a rough and tumble game of ice hockey while the GOP is in a machine gun nest out on the ice rink waiting to mow them down.

[mopaul]

3. they need to stop playing defense, and develop an offense

what really pisses me off is when they apologize for saying something true, yet controversial.

[xchrom]

7. there it is.

the repukes have the heritage foundation, norquist's group, the religous fundies, etc.

they groomed these guys for years and years post nixon.

the democratic party has not done the same.

we need groups like these to form the leading wedge of a machine that will do all the heavy lifting.

we still do all the pressuring as a group of individuals that react to threats -- same with naral, now, sierra club, etc.

[mopaul]

8. just use some of their nasty tactics against them

you'll be accused of sinking to their level of course, or 'we're better than that' or some other excuse.

[rodeodance]

9. Rove came out saying Repugs would do the Dems are soft on terrorism

mantra yesterday in 2006 elections. They will use the same playbook.
but i agree with out. We are floating in the water at this point with few anchors (coordinated offence).

[xchrom]

12. one needs to create the institutions that do just that.

moveon is/was a start.

but you need more -- these groups need to coordinate with each other to accomplish these goals.

they work with the democratic party to feed them continually useful up to date information and how to use that information to go on the attack.

[bklyncowgirl]

25. ...and have you heard any Democrat challenge that so far? WAKE UP!

Howard Dean released a statement that was short and hard hitting and challenged Rove's credibility. That was good.

It was front and center on the DNC home page for a while but now it's gone replaced by the previous article about Republican corruption. The response to Rove is now buried in the blog.

Democrats wake up. The Republicans are scaring people shitless. The are tying your statements to Bin Laden and you guys are just going to let them run all over you again.

This security thing is not going to go away. The few voters in this country who do not absolutely love or absolutely despise Bush are more concerned about their safety than about being ripped off. The Mafia has known this for ages.

Unless you pound away the fact that the Republicans suck at defending America just as they suck at everything else except stealing elections you will continue to lose and the consequences for this nation and the world a very grave.

[ixion]

19. and beyond that

they have entire college campuses set up to train activists, uh, so they can go out into the world and fight 'activist' judges, and much much more.

[malaise]

17. A better analogy is football v baseball

One mows down everything in sight to win and uses the media to good effect re all calls, while the other defers to the 'umpire'.

[ixion]

20. or baseball (rethugs) vs softball (slow-pitch dems)

I've always felt that was accurate.

[deutsey]

57. I think the GOP wants to eliminate the Democrats entirely

and liberalism in general

[leeroysphitz]

27. It may be old but it's apt...

We dems seem to always be bringing KNIVES to GUN fights.

[Swamp Rat]

5. Somebody needs to light a fire under their asses!

[mopaul]

6. yeah, our employees got it too easy up there

we the people have the matches.

.....'do you smell somethin' burnin''?
.....shemp howard, 1948

[mopaul]

10. kerry for example:

when they were swiftboating him he more or less just stood there stoically taking the blows in a monotone robotic way instead of screaming bloody murder about it.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Centralizing vs. Self-Determination

While the Repugnicans developed the "Southern Strategy" and many plans and cons over the years...it steeled their coven into being very disciplined..."on message". Memes were introduced that became all but Pavolovian responses: "Democrats are big spenders...weak on defense..." and then into the person with attacks on Teddy Kennedy then Jimmy Carter then Gary Hart and on to Clinton and so on. It was creating faux issues and demons that kept fueling what has developed into the parallel universe where all corporate media power and influence flows.

Meanwhile, Democrats took a more laize-faire attitude. Live and let live...dissent is a healthy thing. Arguing...especially on issues that seemed of little merit or importance (but were brewing storms in wingnut land) weren't worth the bother. One would hope that eventually they'd all implode from their hot air or that the truth would run them over. Neither has happened. Instead the Democratic party got torn into factions that were and are quicker to form circular firing squads that provide more material and fodder to the wingnuts, but to look for fights in their own tent before uniting to go after a bigger meance/foe.

This is what happens when you lose elections and try to pander to be everything to everyone...not to offend. The corporate media now has gone from conflicted to totally compromised as they know they've been complicit in a lot of the scandals that are starting to surface (thank goodness for prosecutors who care about the law over who nominated them for the job). They don't know how they'll dance out of this yet...but they expect they will.

The one difference over the past in now many of us who brooded privately or had few outlets for input and output of what's going on, now have far greater resources. We still haven't yet figured out how to put the pieces together, but Richard Viguerie wasn't born over night.

Cheers...

[koopie57]

13. I always find myself dumbstruck

at how the democrats sit back and quiver. One of those fuc***s should stand up, tell it like it is and the rest cheer him/her on. They seem to worry about being re-elected which is so stupid. The republicans will not vote for them and the democrats will continue to vote for them in spite of their being cowards.

I admire Gore for speaking out. I am angry that he did not speak out before, but maybe he did and no one heard him. But I think it is time for the democrats to rally around someone. No candidate is perfect, but who has the balls to deal with what will come after him/her during the election. I think Gore has the anger and knowledge to deal with it.

I don't care who the candidate is. I want him/her to go out there and fight tooth and nail, to be confident that we will stand behind him/her and not to quiver in the face of this dirty republican party. We have Dean, Gore, Kucinich (spell) and Ted Kennedy is not maybe presidential material but he has shown balls in the recent past. I know the MSM sucks, but maybe they are just waiting for someone to make the headlines? I don't know, but we need to make a stand and make it loud. I wish I had the smarts to make a difference, but my talents are in working for another.

[bklyncowgirl]

14. It's because the Democrats are not a united party.

They are not united on policy--at least on the most contentious issues like the Iraq war--and they do not have a consensus on how to address these policies.

Unfortunately many of the longest-serving, senior Democrats who get the most media fact time are also the most timid.

Individual Democrats may attack but when they do they're left alone to spin in the wind or are backstabbed by their fellow Democrats.

Right now the right wing noise machine is merrily pointing out that Osama Bin Laden's tape echoes statements by many leading Democrats. You wouldn't know that from the DNC website--despite the fact that DNC chairman Dean is being held up as Osama's personal speechwriter. Since Dean's no blushing flower, I have to assume that he's being muzzled by the party leadership who somehow believe that if they ignore this it will pass.

Message to Democrats. It's not going to pass. Stop agonizing, stop apologizing and start calling these bastards out.

[Lorien]

59. Unfortunately, this has always been the case

Roy Rogers said "I don't belong to an organized political party, I'm a Democrat"; true then, truer now. We could have push through a liberal agenda when Clinton was first elected and we controlled the house, but instead there was infighting that made the party nearly impotent and eventually our lack of unity helped the repugs win control of the house and senate. What will happen if we regain either later this year? Will the DLC try to crush the few remaining Progressive Democrats, leading to an even greater lack of unity? If we can't agree on the Iraq war, the environment, NAFTA, Civil Rights, Health care etc. what CAN we agree on?

[Skidmore]

15. Agreed, mopaul.

But there are some on this board who will eventually post, "What do you mean they're not fighting. They are doing this and that." Sure they are, but it is often with a serious lag time, and sometimes with all the wrong arguments. That war room should have many teevees and radios being monitored and responses out immediately. Demand air time to correct the record. Different Dem legislators and operatives should be the designated people for specific areas of response. Take out those individuals who think they need to have lunch with the enemy--Brazile comes to mind and so does Carville.

[izzie]

16. It is our lack of all the power.

GOP goes with some one putting something in their mouths and then they all say the same thing. Look what happens to you if you do not say the party line. Sort of like the Reds and how they ruled. Just think of McCain and Snowe as they have not fit into the GOP's pattern.Dem. at one time had more power over their people in Congress and they lost it. Most likely the GOP did that butI am not sure on that. Muskie of Maine had trouble with his own party in Congress as he did some thing they did not like and he was told he would not hold any important job and he did pay the price. I think it goes back to one party rule in Congress. Always bad for any party to have all the power. I think at one time their was also a Sen. from Del. GOP that had trouble. I feel his name was Williams but I am really pulling out old thoughts here.

[spinbaby]

18. Part of the problem, I think...

...is that we seem to do most of our strategizing in public. Right here, for instance. Republicans keep everything behind closed doors.

[Hubert Flottz]

22. Here is one time, I will not agree!

The democrats don't need a machine like the GOP has! If the democrats had such a machine as we now see, cutting our civil rights down on Bush's knee-jerk, power-crazed, whims and trampling on and thumbing their noses at, our rule of law, it would be just as WRONG, as the machine we are seeing the GOP wield now. A REAL "democracy," has no place for such a machine. Will the democrats throw in the towel now and agree with Bush, that we are now the Kingdom of Bushco Inc., instead of the United States Of America.

Being a congressperson is "Hard Work" too, but the people in congress, on both sides of the fence, swore an oath on the Bible, to uphold and defend the rule of law and the Constitution of the United states of America. Did they not all then commit, the very same "high crime" that Mr.Clinton committed, when he knowingly, made a false statement under oath, if they do not keep their sworn promise, made to ALL the people of America? Did Bush not lie under oath twice, when he swore to uphold and defend the Constitution and then was publicly heard to say, that, "the Constitution is just some God-damned piece of paper"?

Bush forgets all about all the people, who for over two centuries, gave up everything they had, or everything they would ever have, on battlefields all over the world, to uphold that very same Constitution, that he and the GOP Congress and SCOTUS, now seek to degrade, diminish and destroy a piece at a time. Bush has never in his life, upheld or defended anything, but greed and his own self interests.

If I thought the democratic party, ever was, anything even remotely like the lying, stealing, crooked, broken, perverted, illegal, anti-American, GOP machine, that we see ruining our country these dark, dreary, days, for "political capital" and profit, I'd never vote for another democrat as long as I live.

The CIC and his cutthroat gang of political hacks are not only bad for the morale of the troops fighting in their elective war in the field, but they have almost destroyed the morale of the entire planet!

"This Aggression Shall Not Stand!" Is my prayer to the Almighty whatever!

When the Freepers finally do come to their senses and see Bushco for the real monster it is, this will be their swan song...

STOP THE WORLD AND LET ME OFF
Written by Carl Belew and W.S. Stevenson
(As released by Patsy Cline 1/13/58)

Round n' around n' around
Round n' around n' around
Round n' around n' around
And around and around

(Chorus)
Oh stop the world and let me off
I'm tired of goin' round n' round
I played the game of love and lost
So stop the world and let me off

My heart is shattered can't you see
'Cause you no longer care for me
But someday I'm sure you'll see
Loving you did this to me

My dream world tumbled to the ground
The one I love has let me down
I lost the wonder of his kiss
How could he leave me here like this...more

http://members.allstream.net/~april/Music/Artists/abc/ClineP/Lyrics/StopThe.htm

[yellowdogmi]

52. I think you are missing the point

Which is we need a party machine that can stay on message. Broadcast our message. We need a machine that will stand up for each other. A party that does not snipe at fellow democrats but backs them up. A party with some discipline. A party that strikes back when they are attacked. A party that will press the advantage when they have it. I think you read this to mean that we need to act like repukes. That we need to adopt their official policies. If I am wrong I am sorry. This was all my humble opinion. Additionally Mo I think you should see this thread if you haven't already.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=190599

[Hubert Flottz]

53. Our battle needs to be with the machines alright...the voting...

machines. Until that issue is REALLY resolved, the country is at the GOP's mercy. PERIOD!

AL GORE WON...John Kerry WON! * What good did it do?

Our party registered a huge number of NEW voters in 04, a record number! * What good did it do?

Until we win the battle of the GOP's voting machine owners and operators vs. the will of the people, America will continue the downhill slide, into total banana republicanism.

My point is...Blaming democrats is what republicans do. It's okay to try and figure out what we've done wrong and try and fix that, but we can't lose sight of the fact, that there is far more to America's problem, than what Al Gore or John Kerry did or didn't say...

The GOP loves our infighting. Division of our party is part of their game plan.

[yellowdogmi]

64. sorry

You have valid points that I missed and you do understand. Sorry I was just trying to clarify.

[Hubert Flottz]

65. Welcome to DU yellowdogmi

Anyone who is happy with the way things are going in America is either one of two things, IMHO.

1. Very Wealthy.(Old Money)
2. Very stupid.

[blindpig]

23. Perhaps because Nader was more right than wrong?

:hide:

[robbedvoter]

26. Oh, yeah, let's never stop thanking Nader for his attacks on Gore

We would have been so unhappy under president Gore!
All hail the great Nader!

[blindpig]

30. Just a possible answer to the question asked.

This hard-on for Nader is a bit sad. It ignores the sorry ass campaign that Gore ran. More importantly it ignores the mass defection of Democratic voters to bu$h. Care to blame that on Nader too? Nader sure as hell ain't no saint but he was the figurehead of the Greens that year and as the Democratic Party saw fit to ignore the Left can you blame people for looking to raise a voice that they felt more represented them?I believe it's fair to say that the vast majority of Nader voters in 2000 expected Gore to win. I mean, how could a man like Gore lose to a wretched creature like bu$h? That he let himself get steamrolled in Florida and gave up the fight is less forgivable imho than Naders part. While his recent speeches have been good it's too little too late.

[robbedvoter]

36. Eath to Blindpig (good handle): GORE WON!!!!!

Until you get your brain wrapped around that one, everything you say and do is irrelevant.

[blindpig]

38. Well and good,

I believe that's likely the case. Then why are you blaming Nader for Gore's loss? Furthermore, why did Gore walk away from his win? That was inexcusable. And heartbreaking.

Remember, every once in a while a blind pig finds an acorn.:P

[robbedvoter]

51. There is no Gore loss. Blaming Nader for helping Bush.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. If Nader hadn't insisted on being such a swollen-headed shit

The election would have been MARKEDLY more difficult for Bush to steal.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Wait. I thought there was "no difference" between Bush and Gore.

That's what Ralph kept telling us.

[wiggs]

43. Bingo. Nader was right about dem motivations: corporatism. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

61. If Nader gave a shit about anything besides his ego

we wouldn't be in this mess.

Hmmm. And how come none of the Erstwhile Nader defenders ever want to talk about Ralph's use of far right, spoiler minded Republican staffers and money in his '04 campaign?

24. we are like John Kerry - thinking we are too good for it all

they have more focus than us right now

[SillyGoose]

28. I think part of the problem is the lack of a balanced media

and ineffective handling of the media as it exists. For example, when Rove made his comments yesterday, Dean came back with a great rebuttal. I haven't seen Dean's comments covered by the MSM, at least not to the degree Rove's speech was covered. Or the John Kerry comments about Chris Matthews swipe at Michael Moore. The Dems usually issue pretty good statements but they're not picked up and broadcast like the GOP talking points are.

IMO, the Dems need a team of 'first responders' who operate out of a war room of sorts and who can make the rounds on radio and television programs to immediately get their message out. I'm not sure something like this exists at this point but that would be my suggestion as a start.

I agree with you that something needs to be done, the system they have now, whatever it may be, is not effective at all.

[spanone]

29. Next week an all out attack by rethugs to make chimpys spying case

I hope the democrats are lining up to counter these lying motherfuckers.

Otherwise this whole domestic spying investigation is gonna slip down the memory hole.

[leftofthedial]

31. because it would just turn into a circular firing squad

in all likelihood

there is no organization and no leadership

it's every Dem for him/herself (and whichever corporations own him/her)

[norml]

32. Put me in coach, I'm ready to play. (I already do on KZUM)

I do a great (if I do say so myself) one hour show, two am to three am, Friday morning.

I know how to make the case for public services protections benefits and rights.

I know how to make the case against the evil movement that calls itself conservative.

I've been on the air since August.

My show can be listened to online.

I'd be happy to host or co-host.

Please hire me.

http://www.kzum.org/

[channa18]

33. Great post.....

where's Carville and Begala ?

And please no Bob Strum......kiss of death.

[spanone]

35. Both are on Meet the Press tomorrow!

[channa18]

39. COOL.....THANKS

[rman]

34. It's like all-star wrestling

Looks to me as though the game is rigged - safe for a few exceptions.

[Jade Fox]

37. They are in denial about needing it....

Still hoping that "niceness" will somehow win against the most organized thug-machine this country has seen.

[ourbluenation]

40. msm has tuned us out.

[senseandsensibility]

41. okay, mopaul, you are right on the money

and I KNOW that you didn't just notice this this week. You, I and others on the board have been screaming this for years, since long before the 2004 campaign. But nothing ever happens. There is only one conclusion to be reached. The Dem leadership don't want to attack. They're either afraid or bought off. Sorry, but that's the truth. We need to face it.

[AgadorSparticus]

42. it would be counterproductive to their goals. they only want to APPEAR

as the opposing party.

[wiggs]

44. Sadly, that's what it looks like. nt

[stepnw1f]

45. They Have Me and Many Others

who work for free!!!! Look... we are the machinery. We were never meant to be a Corporate media machine in the first place. And we will win with VOLUNTARY support which is worth more in principal than any Cable News Network. Think about it... we are REAL SUPPORT.

Fox and the rest are NOT real support.

[wiggs]

46. OK. Let's summarize because this is important

Many here are frustrated and mystified why the opposition party can't get a leg up on the worst administration ever in most policy areas and a GOP controlled congress that has rubber-stamped misdeeds and outrages.

There have been so many reasons given for dem passivity and/or complicity over the last five years. These obviously do not apply to each senator...but they attempt to explain why, overall, dem leaders in congress and the democratic party don't pull out all the stops and take advantage of the wealth of issues that are on their side. I've heard:

They are afraid

They are stupid

They aren't as ruthless

They can't get past a biased and complicit media

Their PR machine is better

Dems are, by nature, more diverse and independent...not prone to herding

They are better funded by corporate interests

Dems are not in control of congress and don't have any power


Now...the above sound like excuses -- not valid reasons -- why dems pull their punches. Each one could be overcome if the will were there. And the first three just don't fly. Nearly everyone in congress is smart, courageous, ambitious, clever, and egotistic...or else they wouldn't be there.

So...five years of observation and disappointment tells me that dem leaders (overall) pull punches because they don't mind the trend toward concentration of wealth and power, toward empire, and toward corporatism. Many of them live in that world, same as pugs. Disappointing and sad, but it is the only answer that makes sense to me.

The fantastic speeches and hearings of the last week, IMO, reflect that the adminsitration and GOP congress have taken advantage of their postion and crossed the line. Dems must now stand up for things they never thought would be at risk. The politics "game" got out of control and has to be reeled in. But that doesn't erase, for me, the really disappointing behavior of the last several years.

Really...ALL THE ISSUES ARE ON THE DEMS SIDE!!! This should be easy!

[Triana]

47. Most of them are only worried about their own little districts and...

...getting re-elected. Each has his/her own little fiefdom and that's all they care about pleasing so they can be re-elected - period.

The wider problems facing this nation are of no concern to most of them. They collect their paychecks, please their constituents and go home. They are "careerist" politicians and their career is all they care about. The thing to do and about all we can do is, if we are constituents of any of them - is VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE (wouldn't hurt to be very vocal to their offices before the election as to why you intend to do so too).

Of course REPUBLICAN / CORPRAT owned voting machines "count" the votes so - good luck with that, too.

[SupplyConcerns]

48. 1) Fear of assasination, 2) Blackmail

Those are my theories why the democrats don't break out into a real opposition party when the opportunity presents itself. We need to stop saying "this is America, things like that don't happen here", because they've probably been happening here since JFK was murdered. The anthrax letters were sent out to Dems, right before the Patriot Act vote. Paul Wellstone, a man the media had figuratively referred to as a "hunted man", was pretty obviously taken out right before an election (read "American Assasination"). Eleven microbiologists who were the tops in their fields, with all related to bioterrorism potentially, turned up mysteriously dead within a short period of time (http://globeandmail.workopolis.com/servlet/Content/qprinter/20020504/UMURDN). The CIA have long killed political opponents overseas. I think the case can really be made that they've begun doing it at home.

Also, who knows what crazy photos, incriminating information, or damning untrue-yet-convincing-looking information the Republicans, with full access to the resources of the CIA and NSA, are holding over the heads of their political opponents?

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

49. Because they're merely...

...the weak sister subsidiary of a one party system. At present there really isn't any
opposition party.

[natrat]

50. dems are owned,just like thugs, by big biz--end of story (some exceptions

[dogday]

54. The Republicans have had this plan in place for

generations. The Democrats have no plan, but they better start trying to put one together. The repubs have had a lot of time to make these and other contingency plans and the Democrats just sit and wonder how in the hell are they getting away with it?

[EFerrari]

55. Speak for yourself, John Alden.

Listen, can you imagine what would happen if some smart Dem mustered even only DUers?

They'd fuck with us once. Once.

[Heewack]

56. Lack of a unified organization.

We are too diverse to present a unified message on the issues that are at the fore. We can't even present a unified stance on the war as a party. People want leadership and if we cannot become more unified in our ideas and how to implement them then we will have a hard time garnering support on a broad scale across the voting public.

[snowbear]

58. Put Paul Hackett out there and....... stand back !!!

Once reason I like him so much is because he kicks Republican ass and he REFUSES to apologize for it!!

How many times did Chris Matthews ask him if he wanted to take back calling Bush a "CHICKENHAWK"?

He said "no way" and there wasn't a Rethug anywhere with the gonads to fight him on it!



Kind of blows you away when you see how many Veterans are running in 2006 in the Democratic party!!

Band of Brothers ~~~> http://fightingdems.america-patriots.com/ :patriot:

Next time Major Paul Hackett is on Hardball or one of the other shows, we'll have to try and notify you. He literally KICKS Rethug Ass and he needs MORE EXPOSURE !!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

60. because it's hard to attack someone while you're imitating them.

Memo to the DLC.

[stickdog]

66. Good question. (nt)

[Festivito]

67. 30+ years of dirty money, versus US, asking politely.

RepubliCONs have gave up truth, honor and dignity for money in order to get power.
In the mean time Dems tried to keep up with the ever corrupt cost of running campaigns.
Dem supporters had to give, since the funding race was fueled by corruption.

Now that little corruption has grown to epic proportions.

Now the corrupt rule.
And you ask why don't Dems have an attack machine.
What? For attacking like a mob?
How can run as both complicit with a mob and as saviours from a mob?

Well, that used to be the FBI, the feds were our truth, justice, etc.
Who is ABOVE the mob that we once beat? NOT US. NO ONE.

Only our vote.
If it is counted.