Molly Ivins won't support Hillary and has had it with Dem politicians.

[Cyrano]

Usually, Molly Ivins uses wit and humor to make her points. But in this article, she's not being cutesy. She's pissed at many Democrats in congress and is not pulling any punches.

http://www.workingforchange.com/printitem.cfm?itemid=20250

Here's just part of what she has to say regarding Hillary: "Her failure to speak out on Teri Schiavo, not to mention that gross pandering on flag burning, are just contemptible little dodges."

snip

"If Democrats in Washington haven't got enough sense to OWN the issue of political reform, I give up on them."

Concerning Bush, Cheney and Co. she says: "In WWI, (patriotic bullies) went around kicking dachshunds on the grounds that they were "German dogs." They did not, however, go around kicking German shepherds. The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog ... or you could just piss on them elegantly, as Rep. John Murtha did."

Go, Molly.

[KyuzoGator]

1. I don't think anything will change until...

...a strong progressive independent emerges.

[zanne]

7. Yes, KyuzoGator!

Why should these Dems change if we keep electing them and supporting them to do what they're doing? They want the best of both worlds and we have to be the ones to make sure they don't get that.We keep waiting patiently for them to get a spine. What if they never do? It sure looks like they're happy where they are. We have to realize that, just because someone has a "D" after their name, it doesn't mean they want the best for us.

[MakeItSo]

29. Democrats should fund a political leadership program for Iraq war vets

Paul Hackett and guys like him are the future of the party.

[Catrina]

60. She is so right about this

The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog .

I also think they could be sued for that also, and maybe it's time to test that out. To be a traitor is a crime, and if somone falsely accuses you of a crime, they better be able to prove in a court of law.

[BuelahWitch]

2. I like this paragraph best:

"The majority (77 percent) thinks we should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment. The majority (87 percent) thinks big oil companies are gouging consumers and would support a windfall profits tax. That is the center, you fools. WHO ARE YOU AFRAID OF?"

[Catch22Dem]

3. Having said that...

Don't look for Molly to go supporting repukes, or handing elections to them. Molly's principled, not stupid.

[SaveElmer]

4. She's not stupid...but her political instincts are sometimes suspect...

As her endorsement of Ralph Nader proves...(to me anyway)

[Catch22Dem]

6. So forget what I said about handing the elections to pukes

I completely forgot about that.

[alarimer]

13. But she lives in Texas

where it made no difference to vote for Nader.

[Catch22Dem]

14. Yeah, but her public support makes a huge difference

Even if her individual vote doesn't.

[kurth]

23. Molly is very much a Texas populist à la LBJ

LBJ was her hero - a flawed man who probably wasn't above stealing elections but who made tremendous contributions to this country with his progressive LEADERSHIP.

Nader was a self-centered screwball, but he was a good leader with a great deal of courage.

[alarimer]

58. I thought Nader was better as a consumer advocate

than as a Presidential candidate. I think we really need to concentrate on getting good candidates more than we need to worry about third party candidates. I don't want Hillary to be the nominee. I really don't and I won't vote for her in the primary. And, since I live in TExas, I could vote for a third party candidate, since the Republicans have this state pretty much sewn up. I think we have little chance of carrying it for a few decades at least, until Hispanics are a majority and maybe not even then.

I don't really have an issue with Nader voters anymore. It is water under the bridge now and the important thing now is picking a good (hopefully more populist than H. CLinton) candidate. Clarke, maybe. OR some Westerner like Schweitzer. I don't know. Not Hillary, not Lieberman anywhere on the ticket.

[oasis]

16. Support Nader then rip Hillary. Get a grip Molly.

[Lars39]

17. She considers herself a libertarian, not a Democrat.

[SaveElmer]

19. Interesting...I didn't know that...

Explains alot actually. I really enjoy her column, and her folksy way for sticking it to the Bushies...I just reject her solution for getting rid of them...

[Lars39]

25. I've wondered if it's been a label to use so she can write

whatever she wants and not be considered biased.

[SaveElmer]

28. That's possible...

I agree with her 95% of the time...just once in a while she goes off on something that I just can't agree with her on...like this Hillary thing, or the Nader endorsement.

[Lars39]

31. Me, too. I still like her though. She's real.

[derby378]

34. But she supported the semi-auto ban in the 1994 Crime Bill

No self-respecting libertarian would ever get behind that.

[Selatius]

61. She might be old-school libertarian (i.e. left libertarianism)???

In the time before the 1950s and the rise of the right-leaning Libertarian Party, "libertarian" was almost synonymous with various left libertarian groups. Actually, that's still often the case in much of the world outside the US, but it's not so anymore in the US.

[burrowowl]

65. Libertarians are not

LEFT!
Molly is a populist! A progresive populist!

[zanne]

5. She took the words out of my mouth.

Weak dems in Congress have to be replaced with strong Dems. That's it.

[DainBramaged]

8. "If the Washington-based party can't get up and fight,

we'll find someone who can."

Someone who was very important to us all said that recently, and his statement is in my signature line.

Maybe it is time for new blood Democratic Veterans of war to retake the party from the doldrums. I listened to Harold Ford the other day, and he was sounding more apologetic than upset that we should get out of Iraq sooner than later.

I'm tired of the politics of pacifism. We will not winn throwing flowers at the tanks the Thuglies send against us.

[Pryderi]

9. KICKED AND NOMINATED!

[xchrom]

10. ''They did not, however, go around kicking German shepherds.''

''The MINUTE someone impugns your patriotism for opposing this war, turn on them like a snarling dog ... or you could just piss on them elegantly, as Rep. John Murtha did."

i couldn't say it better.

paul hackett, anyone?

[okasha]

11. Amen, Sister!

Preach it, Molly!

[SharonAnn]

20. I noticed that. Bullies attack the weak, not those who are strong!

So let's act strong! Make them back down!

I'm tired of being bullied, aren't you?

[neverevergivein]

12. Can we BEG Howard Dean to run

and this time, not allow Kerry and Gephardt to sink him in Iowa

[acmavm]

15. Where are all the Hillary supporters? I've seen this article on DU twice

now and everyone who responds has basically agreed with it. I most certainly do. Always have. I DO NOT WANT HILLARY and the Dem nominee in 2008. Never have, never will. But when a DU member says that they get bashed by the 'Hillary can win, Hillary is the best, Hillary this and Hillary that' crowd.

What are they saying when someone like Molly Ivins points out the TRUTH?

[oasis]

18. I support Hillary and so do most Democrats. If Howard Dean rips Hillary I

may start paying attention.As far as I'm concerned, Molly carries about as much weight as Andy Rooney.

[MakeItSo]

24. Not, true, most Democrats I know DON'T support Hillary

And that includes women. When leadership has been called for, Hillary has shown political calculation instead. She doesn't have the political skills to make her calculations seems genuine, as her husband did. She is not a good stumper, and she does not connect with people in the way a gifted politican (like her husband) can.

[oasis]

64. Just maybe you know enough Dems to make a dent in a national poll.

In that case, Hillary will have to work all the harder.

[SaveElmer]

21. This was debated extensively...and sometimes heatedly..

Yesterday...here is the thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=192591&mesg_id=192591

I am a Hillary supporter btw.

[acmavm]

33. Yeah, found it on my own in the Greatest page. I most certainly understand

that you're a Hillary supporter. Reading your posts I was kind of wondering if you weren't Bill Clinton.

[SaveElmer]

35. Well sometimes I wish I were...

He is more articulate than I am...and his life is a damn site more interesting that's for sure.

[seabeyond]

22. screw molly ivans. another dem demanding unification as she

threatens and divides. makes sense,..... not at all

[Lars39]

26. Molly's not a Dem.

She considers herself a libertarian. :hi:

[seabeyond]

30. then screw someone who isnt even a dem telling us dems all our

dems are worthless though i have watched them for the last year kick ass against an administration and nation in repug control. wink. thanks. i am not a dem either, but..... i am willing to recognize the dems accomplishments in order to defeat the repugs

[Lars39]

36. Molly's been one to consistently tell us how bad george is, though.

I hope she's just trying to encourage the Dems to be bolder with these criminals.

[seabeyond]

39. she is feeding the rhetoric dems bad to a nation that is fed that at

least five years. that has had an effect on dem party beyond their control even though they get the blame for it, media and repug abuse. good for her for consistantly going after bush. i still dont buy it though. factually what she says isnt true about dems. just rhetoric.

[Lars39]

44. And you're right, that rhetoric has made a huge impact

on this whole mess. We need to clone Gore. :)

[Servotron]

47. Isn't that what the DLC does every day?

It's common knowledge that Al From, Marshall Wittman, and Will Marshall aren't Democrats by any stretch of the imagination.

[MakeItSo]

27. leadership is more important than "unification"

Leadership means going against the grain even when its difficult. Haven't seen that from pro-war Hillary.

[seabeyond]

32. i have seen plenty of leadership. but if you are willing to turn a blind

eye to all the thing dems have been doing and making a silly comment like dems spineless, dont say anything, lack leadership you create any story you want to convince people of a nonreality. kinda what rove is expert about and media follows right along, giving to our dems. like dems are obl. how easy it is. have a bunch of people that embrace the rhetoric, and truth no longer matters now does it. isnt it wonderful to have so many sheep to follow all the rhetoric blindly

[MakeItSo]

37. How exactly has Hillary shown leadership? Name an instance

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said all Democrats were "spineless." Some of them have real guts, John Coyners for example. Ted Kennedy as well.

I am NOT impressed with Hillary. I don't want her to be the Demcratic nominee because I care about our country and I don't think she has what it takes to win the presidency against the Fascists.

I'd go with an Iraq War veteran like Paul Hackett -- someone who shows integrity and courage instead of compromise and calculation.

The irony of your post is that you accuse me of producing "blind rhetoric" whereas your post is devoid of any content at all, aside from slogans.

[seabeyond]

40. i have stayed out of the hillary argument...has had it with Dem politician

i am talking about have had it with all dems. i think that is evident in my posts. i dont hear enough of what hillary is up to. i am not a great supporter of hillary. i also dont jump in the feeding frenzy of hillary either, giving repugs more power to make dems weak and useless and a non threat.

i wil go back in hte post to see if i was specifically accusing you of using spineless ect..... my impression is i was refering to what is happening on this board and media in general promoting the repug lie that dems are weak, doves spineless and say nothing. that is what i was referring to. if you havent consistantly heard it on this board, then i assume you just are missing the threads or arent here often, because there are a lot of posters that say this on a daily basis. i dont know anything about your past posts, so i dont think i would be accusing you of something i dont have a clue about. that isnt my style.

[seabeyond]

41. a poll on du kinda confirms wat i say about spineless shit

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=201024

[MakeItSo]

46. I think we're on the same page about that

That's why I think the Dems need to recruit as many Iraq War vets as possible. We need to be the party of the Iraq War vet.

If the chickenhawk Republicans want to call vets spineless, be my guest.

[ronnie624]

43. Indeed.

Some of us are just a little reluctant to support a party whose leadership for the most part approves of imperial plunder and genocide. Just sayin':shrug:

[seabeyond]

48. most part approves of imperial plunder and genocide

is this truly what you hear from the majority of the dems. because it isnt what i hear from the majority of dems. please, prove to me that the majority of dems support imperial plunder and genocide. since you put that statement out that is who the majority of the dems are, i think you ought to prove it. a pretty harsh and totally over the wall statement, kinda reinforcing my argument on this thread, what we dems do to our own in total dishonesty

[High Plains]

50. I suppose you could start with those who voted for the Iraq war...

and I hope the "they didn't vote for war" chorus doesn't even bother to show up.

[seabeyond]

53. why, because it is a fact they werent voting for war.

you would rather live in your repug talking point, having anyone that challenges your rhetoric to succumb without bothering with facts?

[High Plains]

54. Yeah, go ahead and excuse them.

Anyone who was observing at the time knew what that vote meant.

Yes, it was Bush's war, but he was enabled by all those Democrats who rolled over for him.

[ronnie624]

57. Amen High Plains.

As Molly Ivans said,"There are times when regular politics will not do, and this is one of those times"

[ronnie624]

51. Oops.

You forgot the word "leadership" in your misquote of my statement. The words of Hillary Clinton, Joe Leiberman and others over the past several months speak for themselves.

[derby378]

38. Molly's only reminding us of what we should never forget

One reason John Kerry lost the election in 2004 is because he pulled too many punches and refused to take on the Karl Rove machine head-on. You can remind me of touchscreen machines and the Ohio debacle all you want, but the fact remains that Kerry didn't exactly set the campaign season on fire. Beating Nero in the race should have been a cakewalk.

Paul Hackett, Howard Dean, Barbara Boxer, and Harry Reid are on the right track, IMHO. I think they are the future of the Democratic Party if they'll just get up on their hind legs and take it.

[seabeyond]

42. i disagree with you. did you take note the bashing kerry received

every time he addressed bush policy. policy, not personal attacks like the bushco administration did to kerry and then were characterized as strong and aggressive, what we like in our leaders. when kerry addressed actual failure in bush policy media then attacked him with being negative, those horrid dems, all of what kerry was saying was ignored and totally a bashing of kerry, trying ot get vote, on our media.

this is just one of the phenomenons that kerry faced that you dont address in your simple critique of kerry. and there is a lot more errors in your post. but just the first one. you do recognize this during the campaign surely? what was the answer to that. because every time media went after kerry for speaking the truth about bush POLICy he lost votes.

[derby378]

45. I stand behind my statements - you don't bring a knife to a gunfight

Here's the deal, straight out of Grassroots 101: The average person in America doesn't give a damn about policy. They are what we call normal. You and I, however, care very much about policy. Unfortunately, that makes us strange. And what John Kerry tried to do was address crowds of normal-speakers in the strange language. Didn't work out so well.

Kerry did not act like he wanted the Presidency all that much. He allowed Bush to force him into neo-con frames (Kerry actually called Saddam Hussein "a threat" in the debates), and he never took on either Bush's policy or his charater in a manner befitting the Democratic Party. Did we support his run for the White House? You bet we did, but only because he was the only hope we had left. And we were all in love with the 1970's version of John Kerry. We were all promised he would bring that same intensity to the 2004 campaign. He reported for duty, sure, but he failed to deliver.

[seabeyond]

49. you didnt address the very first of my issue i gave you

you totally ignored what i said to you. if kerry couldn't even say anything about bus policy what would you suggest the media would have done to kerry if he ignored the policy and attacked bush personally. it is good to ignore the variables that are presented to us, adn create a total illusion of what could have been, but it isn't very useful

my husband suggest why waste time with a gun, when you could use a hand grenade

lol lol

found it funny though i suggested they dont hand grenade, nor gun nor knife, they use their brain. it is a sad day that the brain is so easily dismissed. though i like the analogy especially seeing how the dems HAVE been in battle while the wussy repugs have hidden from battle, behind daddy's skirt

[derby378]

59. I've already addressed that

Kerry had a golden opportunity to humiliate Bush, and he blew it. My point is he didn't use his brain - he just treated the campaign as "business as usual," and just look at us now.

We need Democratic candidates who are streetfighters. The fate of our nation is at stake.

[wiggs]

55. I agree with you. nt

[bvar22]

52. K&R

:dem:
Good yesterday.
Good today!


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans,
family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."--- Senator Paul Wellstone

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[wiggs]

56. Good for her. Stating the obvious, IMO. nt

[DanCa]

62. DTA dont trust anyone (nt)

[CarbonDate]

63. Iraq is the bottom line for me.

Here's what I get from Hillary: she will expand the current conflict in Iraq rather than pull us out. I do not want to still be in Iraq when the end of my enlistment comes up in 2010, but it's becoming increasingly likely that we will be, especially if Hillary is elected.

I like being in the Air Force, but I can't abide by this illegal occupation. Hillary has made no bones about the fact that she thinks we're doing the right thing over there.