Heavy handed or prudent?

[proud2BlibKansan]

Parents question suspension of student carrying water pistol

By FOSS FARRAR
Traveler Staff Writer

Seven-year-old Clayton Jenkins brought a paint gun to Adams Elementary School last Thursday to show his classmates during "show and tell." It never occurred to him that he would get in trouble with school officials who would view the toy as a weapon.

At first, his teacher and the school principal told Clayton he wouldn't get in trouble, even though it was inappropriate to bring anything to school that looked like a weapon, according to Clayton's father.

But that changed a day later, after another Adams first-grader brought a plastic water pistol with him to the school, said the boy's father, Chris Jenkins. The water gun was spotted by a bus driver who turned him over to the principal.

Later, both boys were suspended for five days, Jenkins said. They must serve the suspensions out of school and may not make up classroom work, he added.

more . . .

http://www.arkcity.net/stories/011706/com_0004.shtml

[SmokingJacket]

1. I think a note home to the parents would suffice.

Sheesh.

"may not make up classroom work..." I don't get that. Enforced stupidity is now a punishment?

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. That's standard policy when kids are suspended

They can't sit at home for a few days and then come back to school and make up any work they missed, as if they had just been absent.

I agree these kids are bit young for heavy handed discipline. But the district could be bound by state laws.

[SmokingJacket]

8. It might be standard policy, but I think it's really, really dumb.

Particularly for little kids like this. When a kid that age does something dumb like bring a toy gun to school, it's an error of judgement, and probably the parents' fault (though my kids have occasionally slipped a toy in their backpack when I wasn't looking -- but I check).

Forcing him to fall behind in school teaches NOTHING, just makes the whole experience of education a more miserable one for the child.

I suspect policies like that are designed to encourage older children with behavior problems to drop out.

I'm going to check and see if my state has laws like that, and raise a stink if so. It really burns my butt when policies are created without any intelligent thought about the consequences.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. It's called zero tolerance

Those kinds of policies are in place in most states I believe.

[High Plains]

15. I call it zero sense.

I am resisting the urge to bash school administrators. But it's hard sometimes...

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Write your state legislators or city or county govt

That's where the zero tolerance policies come from, not school districts.

[acmejack]

2. Stupid.

That will teach them. not

[proud2BlibKansan]

4. They bungled it

First the principal says "No big deal" then the kid gets suspended for 5 days?

I also think the parents will start checking that kid's backpack every day. He's only 7. I know I looked in my kids' backpacks every day when they were that age.

[BuyingThyme]

5. DELETE

[sandnsea]

6. federal gun free school zone legislation??

I don't remember the details of that law, but it could be they risk losing federal funding if they don't implement the law exactly as written. I really don't know for sure.

At the same time, it seems to me most schools have idiotic disciplinary systems anyway. With in-school suspension, they have to go to a separate room and actually DO their school work. For most disciplinary problems, that's a bigger punishment then having days off. Not that I think these little boys were disciplinary problems, but it still would have been a better option than traditional susepnsion.

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. Schools are mandated to abide by all state and federal laws

and those laws take precedence over local school board policies.

Quite often, the schools' hands are tied.

[High Plains]

16. So were their hands tied in this case?

I didn't know we had any federal paint gun or water pistol laws.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I don't know the laws in this state

Where I teach, the law can be interpreted to mean a toy or fake weapon is treated just like a real one. If it is used to threaten anyone, we have to call the police, regardless of what kind of weapon, real or pretend.

If this situation played out the way the article says and no one was threatened, then in my district, I think this kid might be sent home for a day, certainly not 5 days.

It really depends on the circumstances. Many years ago, a 3rd grade girl in my district was suspended for a year when she brought bullets to school. No weapon, just the ammo. But what got her suspended was that she had a hit list in her pocket with the bullets. Last year, a 4th grade girl was expelled when she stabbed a classmate with a fingernail file. SO it really depends on the circumstances.

[SmokingJacket]

9. I think suspending elementary school students is absurd.

But that's a rant for another day...

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. It depends on what they have done

I have seen elementary students bring weapons and threaten others with them. I know kids who were suspended for sexual harrassment and sexual assault - in elementary school. I have seen elementary students try to start fires at school and vandalize cars in the parking lot.

Fortunately, these kinds of things don't happen often, but they are not imagined. To state that elementary students should never be suspended is what is absurd.

[SmokingJacket]

14. If their behavior is that bad, they shouldn't be in a special school

or program or intense therapy. A few days off from school, plus enforced denial of education, is going to teach NO ONE why he shouldn't start fires or kill people!

You're arguing with me as if I think suspension is too harsh: not at all. It's that it's INEFFECTIVE, and even counterproductive. It produces the opposite of the intended effect. It makes the kid less educated and makes school that much more impossible. (I was a teacher, and never met a kid with behavior problems that didn't also have academic problems).

Frankly, if someone in my son's third grade class sexually assaulted him, I'd be pissed as all hell if the kid got a couple free days then came back, more alienated from school than ever.

More education, not less, is what they need.

Taking a kid out of school is only effective in that it protects other kids (but only for those few days, so if the aim is to protect the other kids it should be a permanent removal) OR if the kid is in a family that really cares about education (so the parents will be motivated to get the kid some help).

[sandnsea]

17. ineffective and counterproductive

Just to note, that's what I said. Schools' disciplinary systems are ridiculous, they don't opt for things that work, like in-school suspension where kids have to do their work. Too few have effective reward or team work programs in place. They're usually either inconsistent or just plain flakey. I also qualified kids who are disciplinary problems and said I didn't think the little boys were disciplinary problems anyway, which I thought made clear that I don't think most elementary school children fall in this category. So I pretty much agree with what you're saying. And mostly, kids who are succeeding academically and taking pride in that success aren't going to be discipline problems.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Most school districts do not have alternative or special schools

for elementary students. So expelling them is the only way to get them some help. That wakes up the parent, who then finds counseling and intervention for their disturbed kid. They are able to get an education in an alternative setting when their parent looks for it. We at the school often have nowhere to refer kids like this.

[Gormy Cuss]

10. I'd vote for asinine.

These are very young kids and suspending them from school with the added penalty of not allowing them to make up the classwork shows a wanton disregard for basic education. The principal's initial approach sounded more in line with the offense.

I hate peabrained zero tolerance policies.

[BuyingThyme]

12. Somebody should let FOSS know that there's a difference between

a paint gun and a paint-ball gun.

[EFerrari]

20. Heavy handed, definitely.

Because at that age, five days is an eternity. Not to mention, long enough to forget why the heck you were suspended in the first place.

Mostly -- I've never taught in public grammar schools - it makes me miss the Dark Ages when I was in school. And when some rational person sat down with me and talked to me about my transgression. And then reinforced it the next day to help me really learn what they wanted me to learn.

But, I'm a Sagitarian and have little real connection with the reality of today's public schools. :(