Would it be possible to have a bit of perspective?

[bobbolink]

I realize that many people here greatly appreciate both Mike Malloy and Keith Olbermann. I also know that no matter how I phrase this, there will be those who will claim I'm trashing both of them, and therefore am a freeper. It wouldn't be DU if that didn't happen.

I've never had the opportunity to listen to Malloy, and have nothing against him. I also very much appreciate Keith.

But, what is this obsession with both of them? Is this really the most important things to deal with right now? Really?

I would like to point out that there are people RIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY, who are suffering and dying of poverty. There is sooo much that could be done, and done right here on DU. Yet, posts on poverty consistently are ignored, and it gets just a tad difficult to see all this hand wringing about a radio personality who will be OK. Really, he will. He will surface again.

Not so those who die in poverty. They WON"T surface again.

Many, many times there have been posts begging people to call and write about a vote coming up that would affect people in poverty. It gets a handful of responses, then sinks into oblivion.

So many times Sapphire Blue tried to bring really important poverty issues to the attention of DUers, who could tremendously affect what is happening to these issues. But, more often than not, she was discouraged by the lack of concern.

Sapphire Blue has now been missing from DU since the 11th of August. In her honor, could we agree that for every minute spent on worrying about Malloy, etc, we could match that with a minute spent on behalf of people in poverty?

Could we agree to write and think and act on poverty as if it's as important as Mike Malloy?

See, you can still write and organize your flower drives, or whatever... just follow that up with an equal amount of effort on behalf of poor folk. Couldn't that work?

Now, then, see... I haven't impugned Mike's integrity or criticised the efforts on his behalf, OK? Just asking to balance the effort a bit.

We liberals could do that, couldn't we?

Thank you.

[NNadir]

1. I have neither seen or heard either of them.

Somehow my political opinions are formulated without them.

[brentspeak]

2. Good post

[bobbolink]

3. thanks

:hi:

[Ron Green]

4. There's room here for both

concerns about Malloy and Olbermann as well as efforts to reduce poverty. Many DUers are working on the latter, either through their work or their contributions. It's also important to speak for and about those few strong voices for truth and democracy that actually get widely heard.

[bobbolink]

5. with all due respect,

I didn't say there *isn't* room for both, did I?

I think I was very careful to say it's not either or.

Right?

Now, if you will notice, there reallly is no comparison between the threads in support of Malloy and Keith, and the threads in support of poor folk! NO POVERTY ISSUE has *ever* received the kind of attention that both of these men receive! NEVER.

The title of my thread is "perspective", and that is for a reason. Spending this much time on two personalities, and so little time on people who are literally dying is a disgrace.

I will repeat... I asked for a bit more parity.

Surely the good people of DU can see the reasoning of that, and realize how important it is.

Thank you.

[EFerrari]

6. The reason I support Mike isn't because of his status as a media

personality but because he has helped me very directly to raise money for poor people. So, I don't think of him as a rock star but as good guy who is on my side.

:)

[bobbolink]

7. That's fine.

That wasn't my point.

I would feel much more included if there were 1/4 the number of posts about poverty is there is about MIke.

Right?

I'm sure you see the lack of balance on this.

[EFerrari]

8. Oh, of course. But the support for Mike has an immanent shelflife

and I suspect we'll be dealing with poverty for a long time.

With Mike's situation, we're in a window where we are getting some attention from management that will last about 48 hours. Because he is an advocate for social justice, that's my priority for that window.

But, of course, there's the long haul and that one needs our daily attention. No argument here.

[EFerrari]

9. And, where IS Sapphire Blue?

:(

[bobbolink]

16. I wish I knew.

I'm very concerned.

With what happened yesterday, I may be disappearing suddenly, also.

That's why this all hurts so much.

So much begging and pleading for people to care about poverty, yet it just is too much trouble.

But it's never too much trouble for the "stars".

IT HURTS!

[bobbolink]

15. Well, yes, poverty wil be with us. BUT many poor people won't

And I'll probably be one of them.

Many of us are dying.

I know that you *DO* write and call, or at least, I think you do, so we don't need to keep going with this.

I'm surprised that somehow you took my words as a challenge of supporting MIke. I think I went waaaay far in saying that it isn't against Mike or anyone.

It's FOR poverty.

And BALANCE

[EFerrari]

18. Got it. I'm just not writing or reading very well right now.

:(

[lyonn]

36. If the Dems don't get control of some part of our govt.

the poor will be lost for a lot longer. We need people like Keith to get the msg. out there about all the issues. He only has 1 hr. minus commercials to make his point on the issues the media has brought to the masses attention. Keith comes on right after Chrissy Matthews which works as a buffer against all the slanted perspective Chrissy puts on the issues. We desperately need the Keith's of the media to sway the vote this Nov.

The war drums are beating and far too many think bushco will keep us safe. Right! (sarcasm) As a female journalist mentioned on c-span this a.m., Clinton kept the Middle East from waring with each other, excluding terrorist bombings. That is info the masses need to hear. You win the hearts and minds by showing respect And Strength, which Clinton accomplished. Who is in jail for the first Trade Center bombing and much info was found during the investigation. Can't say the same for bushco. Point out these lies to those that believe this admin. is keeping them safe. bs

[bobbolink]

39. So, the people who die in the meantime... well, that's OK?

Yanno, WE are the gov't.

I stated a pretty simple message -- PLEASE spend as much time advocating for poverty issues as you spend advocating for Keith and Mike.

That's simple, yes?

I'm really amazed that it leads to argument.

Would you be arguing with me about it if I was asking for more support for Gay Issues? For the environment? For peace?

No, it's poverty that gets people defensive. Can you please explain to me why that is?

Again, it's very simple. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT! If all of you would spend an equivalent amount of time calling and writing concerning poverty issues, the out come would be much different, and there wouldn't be so many people dying.

What's to argue with that?

??? Please explain.

Thank you.

[lyonn]

46. So, poverty is the No. 1 problem in America?

[bobbolink]

47. No, not for the Dems. So, people dying unnecessarily is OK with you?

[bobbolink]

63. Not everything is about the war. People are dying in THIS country, too

I posted about poverty.

Poor people count too, yes?

[Critters2]

10. The reason I love Keith

is that he's talking about the things that ARE relevant. The rest of the MSM are talking about John Karr and that polygamist. KO, otoh, is taking Rummy to task. And the $400B spent in Iraq would go a long way toward dealing with poverty. But the MSM don't question the Repug priorities. Keith does.

As to Malloy...AAR isn't on the air here, so I don't listen.

[bobbolink]

14. So, you're willing to call and write when poverty votes come up??

[Critters2]

32. I get action alerts from my church letting me know when votes

on issues of poverty come up. And yes, I call and e-mail. Don't be so presumptuous.

[bobbolink]

56. Well, I was ready to thank you, until I got the zing at the end.

It really was a simple request.

I'm glad that you do the calling and writing! That is very much appreciated.

It's totally unnecessary to add the verbal violence at the end.

That's not peacemaking.

As they say, have a nice day! :hi:

[PresidentWar]

11. Cult of Personality

It's what I expect to see from Reichnuts - but VERY unattractive on my fellow leftists/liberals/Progressives.

[bobbolink]

17. So, you'll kick poverty posts, and write and call?

Thanks.

[calimary]

53. It could be that you're hitting a nerve. It could also be that

some people here have indeed done what they could, and feel not only overwhelmed by what a huge need it is and what they may feel is a drop-in-the-bucket effort on their part. I know how that is. Where do you even begin? This is a coast-to-coast problem. Around here, you should see the average park in Santa Monica, for example. Holy COW! People on the streets, on the grass, huddled under a tree, on a bus bench. This started back during the lovely Reagan era, when that old schmuck cut funding for mental hospitals and other care institutions, causing hundreds of thousands across the country to be turned out onto the street. Where were they gonna go? But Nancy got her rich friends to buy her a whole new set of White House china.

The poor are all over the place. Even in a well-to-do area I drove through the other day, I saw this little old lady, homeless, no teeth, rags, with a plastic bag, hunkered down on the curb. AWFUL. Where do these people even go? Where can they turn?

I'm sure DU has a big collective heart. You can't be a liberal or a Dem without one.

Funny, as I write this, I'm watching Brad Pitt of all people, who seems to have made a commitment to do what he can to help - by sponsoring a housing design contest for the people in the still-neglected Ninth Ward - and it's all designed eco-friendly to help save energy AND a lot of money. And he's bankrolled the competition himself. We need more efforts like that, especially the ones that get press like his has.

[bobbolink]

58. Thank you for setting me straight.

I had no idea that seeing homeless and hungry people was so upsetting to so many people. I didn't realize that it took so much out of middleclass people to see us suffering. I appreciate you enlightening me.

Now I do understand why it's too much to ask people to call and write about poverty issues. They're just done in just with seeing us, and have no energy left after we have drained them.

I do understand now why it's possible to write about Mike and Keith and not about the budget, and other votes affecting poor people. It's now clear to me.

I certainly wouldn't want to make anyone uncomfortable because of my own homelessness, so it's time to fade into the background.

Far be it from me to drain people's energy. That is certainly not my intention.

[EFerrari]

60. What a great idea! I've never cared for Brad Pitt very much.

I was wrong.

:)

[EFerrari]

12. Kick

When my husband was homeless, he was literally saved by a journalist who was ALSO homeless.

We never got to thank him. He died just about a week later a few feet from our city hall with its gilded dome.

Since, I got to talk to that man's daughter, his sister and brother.

I would much rather have talked to Trent.

:kick:

[ismnotwasm]

13. I don't listen to talk radio

So I don't have a horse in this race.

I do understand you have to fight fire with fire sometimes, and my impression is that is what Mr. Malloy was trying to do. How do you counter the Limbaugh's of the world?

I would love to see liberal ideals in the mass media. I would love to see the Darfur threads not sink like a stone as well as any activist threads involving poverty, homelessness, the environment and the like. I wonder if countering the aggressive, insane right wing ideology with like tactics is one way to go about it? I don't know, I truly don't. I do know that liberal still is a dirty word, but it's not as bad as it was. If people embrace liberal ideals, maybe, just maybe we can address liberal issues in a more effective way.

But you're right. Action speaks louder than any typing I might do here. There are a number of things I can do locally to help combat hunger, poverty and homelessness. From dropping food into a food drive, to volunteering at a food bank, to supporting the local efforts to combat poverty. Volunteering at schools, monitoring the difference in schools in poor neighborhoods. Writing my congressional rep. when I find my local school going without books, basic supplies etc.
I live in a poor neighborhood--It's multi-ethnic working class neighborhood that enriches my life despite the problems that come with living in a impoverished neighborhood.

Like I said, I don't listen to--or even like-- any talk radio. That's just me. I have friends that do.

I appreciate your post, and as a matter of fact there is something I can do today to help combat poverty.

[bobbolink]

20. Thanks for hearing!

I tried so hard to word my post accurately, but ... the point seems to have escaped. I don't really believe that I attacked anyone or their interests. I just asked for some perspective and balance.

>I appreciate your post, and as a matter of fact there is something I can do today to help combat poverty.

Oh, Thanks! :hi: :toast: :hi:

Yes, there is so much to be done!

I will NEVER forget last year, and begging people, and begging and begging! for them to call and write their senators and reps about the budget cuts, yet very few responded at all.

The budget was lost by TWO representative vote, and ONE Senator vote. IF there had been *half* the response to those pleadings as there is to writing to save Mike and thanking Keith, it could have had a different outcome. It isn't one or the other -- it's remembering poor people just as much as the "stars"!!

That hurts deeply, when you're one of the ones affected, and see just how little you matter.

This isn't a horse race, it's about humans and suffering and dying.

Thanks for what you do!

[Rex]

19. Er...

Another selfish-selfless post. Poverty sucks, I should know. Using Malloy as a tool to get people aware of a problem everyone knows about it stupid, IMHO. I will refrain from calling you a freeper, nice touch btw. :eyes:

[bobbolink]

21. Oh, yes, I'm selfish. And, a freeper, of course.

Thanks for playing.

It's always good to meet a caring liberal.

[acmejack]

27. It's a little rough to form a judgment by simply looking at today

and stating that everyone is uncaring and oblivious to the suffering and poverty in the world. Are you confident in passing judgment on so many of us without even knowing what we have/are doing to battle these scourges?

You get angry when people are offended by you denouncing them as uncaring since they are not giving equal time in this time period to causes which you prefer to see them devoting their time to. Is that what being a "Liberal" is all about?

Your causes are undoubtedly noble, but haranguing folks is not always the way to acheive one's ends.

[bobbolink]

49. If you noticed, in the original post, I mentioned post after post

BEGGING and PLEADING for people to call and write their Reps and Senators.

Plus, many others.

It's been posted that the least attended forum here on DU is the poverty forum. Doesn't that say something?


You feel blamed? I don't think I worded it that way, but maybe people NEED to be shaken up a bit.

People are DYING. Isn't that as important as Mike and Keith?

Really, isn't it?

Does it really hurt to call and write about these issues?? What does it take from you to do that??

What are people so defensive about?

Maybe a guilty conscience?

If the shoe fits.....

[Jeroen]

22. The battle against intellectual and moral poverty is equally important

Fascism means the end of intellectual, creative and spiritual freedom, the end of diversity.
A black and white rainbow. It means poverty of the innerself, physical and mental enslavement.

We live in a world in which the MSM determines what the majority of people think and choose concerning politics. Therefore the people who defend a society against abuse of power and manipulation, depend, to some extend, on the people in the MSM who have the courage to say ‘No, enough’. It was a significant and important moment when Olbermann warned of an imminent fascism in your country.
People understand it is not about Olbermann, it is his message and the context. And to some extend it is about Olbermann. Change, progress, revolutions are often companioned by symbols, figures who embody that change.

Besides, poverty is the result of bad policy, lack of compassion and the willingness to share resources. And I guess that is even a simplification of the problem. It is difficult to discuss poverty and to think / work together on solutions. Same applies for the global warming problem. It is easier to talk about things you might be able to change. But I see want you mean, I agree that there needs to be balance. A more progressive US government can help the fight against poverty, which is a root cause of evil and suffering.

Substitute ‘Olbermann’ for ‘Karr’ in your post and I would agree totally.

Edit: or ‘Karr’ for ‘Olbermann’?? It is 3.30 in the night here..cant think strait any more;-)

[bobbolink]

23. I'll remember that as I'm dying in my car.

:eyes:

[Jeroen]

26. Yes, or when your up against the wall

[EFerrari]

25. No, it's not. First we feed and house people. Then, we worry

about their beautiful minds.

[bobbolink]

45. Thanks, Beth! Looks like there needs to be a course on Maslow's

hierarchy of needs, eh?

:shrug:

It's all pretty hopeless..... :cry:

[EFerrari]

57. Maslow's is a great model and we should all review it.

:hug:

[bobbolink]

59. Yup, he reminds us that he never met a self-actualized person younger than

...65!!!!

So much for all the pretense of "having it together" if you're younger than that!

Here's to you and your big-hearted wisdom, Abraham Maslow! :toast:

:hug:

[bobbolink]

24. Folks, once again, what I asked for was equal time in writing

and calling for poverty issues.

Is that really such a stretch?

Not *everything* is a battle about who is "right" and who is "wrong".

Just asking you to spend some time with poverty issues, too.

'K?

[sendero]

28. How do you think we..

... got in this mess? How do you think that "liberal" got made into a dirty word? How do you think that the current cultural attitudes that have infected America got cultivated?

Well, you can start with talk radio and the news media.

It IS a big deal when one of the handful of liberal talkers gets taken down. It IS a big deal when a cable news outlet deigns to let our side of the story be heard once in a while.

You might not be a freeper, but you missing the big picture.

[EFerrari]

29. Kick

[The Straight Story]

30. Here's my take on it all:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2018364

[lisainmilo]

35. very nice post

:)

[bobbolink]

42. What was nice? Dissing a reasonable request?

[bobbolink]

41. I did you the courtesy of reading your link--could you do me the

courtesy of READING my post??

WHERE do you see any words that say I'm judging anyone for supporting Mike Malloy? Where do you see that?

Could you please quote those words to me?

Again, for the umpteenth time, I simply asked for all of you to spend an equivalent amount of time advocating for poverty issues as you do for Mike and Keith.

That's not only simple, it's very easy to do.

If you can't, then don't complain that poor people GET IT, and quit bothering to vote. You can't continue to take people for granted, and then whine when they don't do what you think they should do.

I doubt seriously that you will bother to reply (unless it's another putdown). Somehow most of you think that poverty issues are beneath you.

I'd really like to know why that is.

Really.

[lisainmilo]

51. Please don't insult me, I just got back on line.....

I am not feeling that well today. I just got back on-line, so I was not ignoring your post. I am not that way. I commented on the gentlemens post who spoke about M. Malloy, I thought he was being thoughtful and I could relate, because I also do not know or have listened to M. Malloy. I was simply agreeing that he meant alot to people here and obviously he meant alot to them.
As far as poverty, I try to be a generous person, something my mother taught me. I am not rich, I am not poor, I have been poor early in my marraige, so believe me, I know the feeling and I know the needs, so please donot insult me if I did not comment on your OP. As I said, I was not feeling well and my time on line was limited because of not feeling well.
I will respond to your OP now. Yes, I think poverty is an issue in this country, yes we can spend time talking about poverty, as we would any other issue that is on the democratic agenda. The democratic party is the party of the people, not the party of corporations. It is my thinking already that democrats support issues that pertain to the poor, to the children, to healthcare, to the middleclass, to global warming, they are the party that leverages the playing field with corporations. I am sorry to hear about blue sapphire, I just found DU about a month ago so I have not really seen any of her posts, but if it makes anyone feel any better, at times my posts go with few comments as well. I think that is the way it goes sometimes. I hope she will return. Again, I ask not to insult me as it was not called for. Thank You, Lisa

[bobbolink]

54. apparently you are looking at a post I wrote to someone else.

It's not addressed to you.

[AZBlue]

31. Excellent post! Thank you!!

K&R

[bobbolink]

55. Thanks, AZBlue! It really helps to know there are those who

actually can hear what I'm saying.

I appreciate it! :hi:

[K8-EEE]

33. I Think People Are Starved For Leadership And Truth

And yes, I'll say it, many of those in our own party haven't been standing up to BushCo as vigorously as it should...so when people see someone representing them even outside the political arena, they are so grateful.

[bobbolink]

43. And others are just starved.

And literally dying in the streets.

I asked for some perspective.

Isn't that it?

Remember Katrina?

Does any of that pain concern you?

[calimary]

34. Happily kicking!!! I just always hear a quote from Michael Moore being

echoed in my ear: "you need a permission slip from the poor to get into Heaven."

It seems EVERYONE who votes republi-CON has forgotten this. And it's the key to the highway, I'll tell ya!

K&R

:thumbsup:

[bobbolink]

40. Thanks for that reminder from dear Michael Moore!!

I'm going to write that on a piece of poster board, and put it in my window, NOW!

Thanks!!

You are so right, and I appreciate you hearing what I'm saying!

Oh, and it isn't ONLY the people who vote RW -- the reason I wrote this is clear -- the DEMS have fallen down, and forgotten us poor folk. We just aren't important.

John Edwards is the ONLY ONE who is speaking about it, and I could have kissed him when he got Lamont to apologize for not accenting poverty in his campaign, and rectifying that.

If Lamont can apologize for his oversight, and vow to do better, then why, pray tell, is it so hard for DUers?

REally, I don't get the defensiveness here.

Lamont wasn't defensive, he apologized and changed his ways. Can't we all do that????

[EFerrari]

37. Kick

[Marie26]

38. Hero worship?

Liberals are a little bit desperate for a hero. Also, I do think that the poor are mostly invisible to middle/upper class liberals - Mike Malloy personally affects their lives more than a bill to cut Medicaid.

[bobbolink]

44. THanks so much to those who cared to understand!

And, thanks for those recommends!

I don't know who you are, but I very much appreciate it!

This all hurts so much, and it means a lot that at least some of you heard and cared.

Thanks. :hug:

[EFerrari]

48. Please check your pm''s

And thank you for posting this thread.

:hug:

:grouphug:

[calimary]

52. Evidently, DU has others who lend a hand to a needy one.

Did you see this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2033625

It's why I like to refer to the republi-CON party as the Party of Cain. If we think back to the old Bible story about Cain and Abel, we find Abel missing, Cain hiding, and God looking. God finds Cain and asks where Abel is. Remember what Cain said in response? "Am I my brother's keeper?" TYPICAL, it seems to me, of the republi-CON sense of stingey-ness (shoot - hope I'm spelling this correctly). If you asked a republi-CON about his/her brother's well-being, you might get "HELL NO! The HELL with brother! Screw him! I got mine, let him get his own. A Democrat would be more likely to answer - "yes, I'm my brother's keeper. Aren't we all supposed to look out for each other?" Heaven forbid they chip in a few more tax dollars to support programs that help the needy. Heaven forbid.

Besides, I know where we can get 100-thousand bucks a minute. Stop the war, bring everybody home, and spend that money HERE where it's MOST needed for GENUINE national security, not just the phony-baloney lip-service kind. 'Cause I think real, honest-to-God national security encompasses a lot more than just sending our kids overseas to shoot brown people and get shot themselves. REAL national security means being safe and secure HERE AT HOME, with decent housing, enough food to eat, basic health care, enough money to cover heating bills, and a job that pays more than a subsistence wage. THAT is national security.

[calimary]

50. Kickez-vous!

Hey, as you mentioned up top, I, too, wonder what happened to Sapphire Blue. Damn. I hope she's okay.

[TheFriedPiper]

61. Supporting MM and KO = helping to combat poverty

They do a lot more than a thread on DU can do to influence the adoption of policies that will help the poor.

I say let people choose their own ways of helping the poor.

[bobbolink]

62. They do?

Then why did the budget cuts pass?

Is it their fault???

Why isn't it possible to spend as much time writing and calling about poverty issues as it is in defending two celebrities? Why is that?

[Marie26]

64. When was the last

time either really covered the issue of poverty in the US? I haven't seen it, unless I've missed something. Both seem to be very good at covering issues that matter to liberals - Constitutional abuses, the war, Bush gaffes, etc. But not poverty - which seems to support the OP's point that maybe liberals don't care as much about that issue. John Edwards & Bill Clinton have done much more to bring attention to the problem, IMO. So I could see the argument that supporting John Edwards = supporting an end to poverty. When it comes to Olbermann, etc. the connection seems tenuous at best.

[calimary]

65. Kick again!

This is important. We all should be thinking about this stuff. It's what makes us Democrats and liberals and the TRULY compassionate ones instead of poseurs.

[G_j]

66. thank you !!!

your request is right on the mark
I offer that one aspect of 'wisdom' is gaining perspective on priorities
18,000 people die for lack of health care in this country every year
death is the extreme consequence of poverty, but there are so many destructive and tragic consequences they could not possibly be listed

as far as how folks spend their time and energy in writing letters etc.
as a long time DUer I have been quite sad and discouraged over the years watching people such as Sapphire Blue patiently appeal to people to address poverty and related issues.
It is not just poverty but a general tendency to avoid the less glamorous issues and activism in general. That is human nature I suppose but I've held hope that we could do better.

There are MAJOR EXCEPTIONS to what I just said, and I have seen some wonderful efforts made here.
Please don't get me wrong, I have held high expectations for DUers because I know that most of us are genuinely caring and smart people.

peace, G_j