A SAD DAY IN TALLAHASSEE

[TallahasseeGrannie]

I've mentioned on DU a dozen times or more that I raise my own chickens and garden extensively.

Well, I am slaughtering the chickens tomorrow. The bird flu doesn't have me too concerned personally, but if it is going to get anyone it will get the chickens and I would rather do it now then when they are infected.

I wonder if geese get the bird flu? I have an order in for goslings but might cancel it.



T.GRANNIE...CRYING INTO HER BEER

[Midlodemocrat]

1. Grannie! Why not wait and bit and see if it even arrives in your

state? You can track it on the CDC website. Don't slaughter your chickens prematurely.

:hug:

[Karenina]

70. GRANNIE!!!

Do yourself and the chickens a favor. Put down your hatchet, turn OFF your cable news, leave them in peace to do their chicken thing, sit on the porch after servicing them (food, water, egg-gathering) and watch them doing their chicken thing, (you KNOW how relaxing that is) and DON'T EAT BEEF!!! Don't make me jump through cyberspace just to smack you upside yo haid!!! :spank::spank::spank: (Don't worry, I haven't figured out the keystrokes that would allow me to do so yet. ;-) )

[Coexist]

2. I am so sorry

:hug:

[MuseRider]

3. I am so sorry.

Do you raise them for slaughter or just as chickens to keep with you? I was planning on getting some but am going to wait for a while longer before I start my brood.

Are you sure you can't wait?

This must be a very hard decision, again I am so sorry.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. I raise them for eggs mostly

and pleasure. I have little appetite for the roosters I have to slaughter, but I do eat them. It's a respect thing.

A chicken is a wonderful thing...so many varieties. I can sit in a chair and watch them all day. I call it "The Chicken Channel."

[MuseRider]

28. I understand the respect thing.

I have never been able to develop the "farm mentality". I would name everything and would never be able to slaughter them but if I had to, and who knows what the future will bring, I would do it as you do, with respect.

I can't wait to be on the farm and have some chickens and ducks but I will wait until the fear of this is over I am having enough trouble with my oldest horse and worries of West Nile even with the vaccination.

I have often wondered if when my horses go it wouldn't be most respectful to have them hauled and used rather than hire a backhoe and bury them. I guess I should start thinking about that.

Good luck to you. Eat them in good health. To the spirits. I will think of you.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

38. We always backhoed our horses

and planted trees on them. The trees did REALLY well. We had a friend who tried cremation and ...well, it didn't go that well. No details. We did have to add extra dirt around the tree every few months for a while.

When my goats would pass away, I would drag them down to the end of the property and they'd be vultured to nothing in about two days. I checked with my extension agent who said that was okay to do. Hey, vultures need to eat, too! I couldn't see wasting them. If they died from disease I buried them, but I had a lot of trouble with dogs and also some does wouldn't deliver well.

[MuseRider]

44. That is most likely

what I will do. All my dogs have been cremated and are in boxes waiting for our final home on the farm. I have a lovely area well away from anything where I think I will plant them all with Catalpa trees.

We have too many coyotes around to leave a carcass out, it would get scattered all over the place so I leave chicken (sorry) out for them if they seem to be having problems with hunger.

I actually like your vulture idea, they do have to eat and I find them quite fascinating. One of them died close to my barn and I saved as much of the skeleton as I could and am saving the head for my husbands cousin who does some interesting types of art. Use what you can and give the rest back to mother earth. I wish they would let my family just backhoe me on the farm!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

49. Vultures are awesome birds

not too pretty on the ground doing their thing, but free wheeling in the air. We have a very swampy lake nearby that draws migrating vultures. Sometimes it looks like there are hundreds over there.

I intend to be cremated and dispersed on the family farm where we all will be living (we are building one big house and a smaller one later), unless they allow "green funerals" altho that my creep out my survivors. But the concept of my ashes being where my family lives is very, very comforting to me.

[XOKCowboy]

60. We did that for my father...

We buried him about 200 feet from the chair he passed away in. The grave we dug by two friends with backhoes and 12 of his and our friends lowered him into the ground. Over 300 people showed up. It was a beautiful experience. He now lays at rest on a small hilltop overlooking the house and barns he built and grew up in on one side and the lake and pastures he cared so much for on the other.

We had no problem legally burying him on our ranch. People told us we couldn't do it but all we needed the funeral home for was the death certificate and to keep him (unembalmed by his wishes) for a couple of days while we dug the grave. We did buy the cheapest wooden casket they had (Dad wanted a pine box) to placate them somewhat. We went and picked Dad up at the funeral home and took him home in the back of his old Ford pickup.

I still smile when I think about that day. That's saying a lot about your father's funeral. It just gives me a lot of satisfaction to know we were able to fulfill my dad's wishes. It was the way it should be.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

63. Do you live on that farm yourself?

that's a great story.

My parents were cremated and are in a chapel at the church we all were baptized at, so I feel good about that. I'd rather have them on the farm, but it wasn't their farm and didn't mean that much to them.

[XOKCowboy]

73. I don't live there now

but it's my grandmother's old headright land. Now it's just my two brothers living there but we all grew up there. Dad was pretty headstrong and had been ill with Addissons Desease for years. He HATED funeral homes with a passion. He would have haunted us if we'd let him die in a hospital then turned him over to a nursing home. He picked out where he wanted to be buried and in what manner. He'd been an agronomist as well as a rancher and the idea of going back to the soil really satisfied him.

Sorry to hear about your chickens. That's a tough choice.

[MuseRider]

65. Great story.

Thanks for sharing that. How perfect.

[EFerrari]

4. Oh, no! Are you sure it's necessary right now?

I kept chickens for a while. They used to take walks all over my mom's ranch, like a group of tourists. We never could slaughter them but instead had a lot of omelets. The geese were the best watchdogs ever.

[joeybee12]

5. Don't do it!

I doubt it'll get here anytime soon. Save the little birdies!

[Fridays Child]

6. Is it something specific that you've read or heard that causes you to...

...make this decision now?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Yes

Once I heard it was in Turkey in poultry and children who play with fowl have gotten it, I figure Turkey is a strong trade partner and it will be here before long. Better to do it now and not waste them. I abhor waste. Also, I saw the pictures of the folks trying to get rid of them and burn them, etc., so it just seemed like a good time to get out of the poultry business!

[radwriter0555]

26. You're over-reacting.

Bird flu isn't going to hit tallahassee florida.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. Well, there is a LOT of poultry farms just north of here...

[radwriter0555]

58. and how much contact do you and your chickens possibly have with any

birds that could get infected?

Think of the chain of infection and the highly unlikely possibility that your lovely little well loved and cared for birds will become part of that chain anytime in the next few years?

It'd be like you getting leprosy. Don't fall for the hype. If you're that worried, then re-home the birds somewhere else. It sounds like they're loved and well cared for... someone else could enjoy them and give them a nice home...

Please... think about it, and don't fall for the fear-mongering....

big hugs.

[Fridays Child]

45. I understand your fear.

:hug:

[snowbear]

7. That is sad..

Have you called your local Agriculture Department or anyone else for their opinion?

Boy.. I sure couldn't do it..

C'mon T-Grannie.. please give them a stay of execution until you're sure.

"You're Gonna Do WHAT Grannie ???"

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. Oh poor Chicken Little

the sky really IS falling! I called the extension agent for the county and he said when it gets into the country they will be very vigilant and that since I am not raising them as a business, it was up to me. Privately he agreed that once it is in the country we'd want to burn them. This way I get to freeze them and use them. If I have to do it, I want to give them that, at least. See, I believe chickens know what it is all about. (the fact that they feed us and we feed them) They aren't as stupid as some think!

[tocqueville]

8. you are overreacting, don't do it

NOBODY in Western Europe is slaughtering tame birds, even if the flu is far nearer than in the US : flu in Romania is like if you had the flu in Toronto.

all birds can carry the flu, even geese. To pass it to tame birds AN INTENSIVE CONTACT between contaminated wild birds and tame ones is needed. How often does it happen to you ? An easy prevention method anyway is to keep the chickens inside under the comming migratory period.

Start to worry if there are cases of bird flu in Alaska.

besides to pass the flu to an human, the human have practically to sleep in the feces of the chicken. The cases in Turkey were caused by children playing with dead birds.

Have another beer and think it over

:toast:

[Blue_In_AK]

24. It hasn't shown up here yet at all...

...although the local bird experts will be on the watch in the spring when they all pass through here. I wouldn't off the chickens yet, Grannie.

[necso]

9. There is little point in slaughtering

your birds (or not buying more) until this bird flu makes it here.

Of course, the government may lie to us about it until it is plausibly undeniable. (Or, when it does arrive, they may -- with tremendous corporate-media support -- hype it out of all perspective and proportion to further their political/economic ends.)

Bird smugglers are probably the biggest short-term worry, otherwise I would guess that it will be at least months.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. See, that is the issue

who do we trust?

[necso]

25. It's a matter of levels of confidence

and a carefully fashioned framework of verified (to some level of confidence) knowledge to use as a (one) basis to test any new "information" against.

(And in this government, the corporate-media, and the ruling class more generally, I have no confidence -- none.)

No one knows how this bird flu will turn out. All sorts of scenarios are possible. And all sorts of (current) indicators and base "knowledge" can be read in various ways -- particularly by those who wish to do so... one way or the other.

This particular bird flu appears to be spreading. Without strong measures (and perhaps even with any and all practical and reasonable measures) it appears likely that it will reach this hemisphere. At which point, measures will have to be taken with domestic fowl, as close contact with infected birds (and possibly persons) is how this flu spreads (currently) to humans.

When this will be, I don't know. Bird-smugglers could bring it at any time, but it might spread less quickly during winter-season, if it stays more or less in the form that it is in.

The larger questions are unanswerable. Will it turn into a form that spreads like regular flu among humans? Will this form fully erupt into the human population? Will this form (or forms) have high lethality?

Who knows.

But it could take no more than a little recombination between this bird-flu and some other flu-virus in the body of some person to make a monster.

Now, there are those who will argue that this sort of thing is impossible. And science can tend to be conservative.

But who knows for certain.

Not me... or anyone that I would trust.

But I'd guess that it's at least months away.

[hlthe2b]

10. Grannie... I understand your fear, but....

There is no H5N1 (avian flu) on this continent. While I know what you read/here is worrisome, realize that the risk is still theoretical. Even should migrating wild fowl bring the virus here, there are things you can do to protect your flock and yourself. Perhaps it would help to put this in perspective if you realize that,like seasonal human flu, other strains of avian flu HAVE occurred (and do occur) periodically in this country. If you've not been aware of this or affected by it personally in your own birds, speaks to the focal nature of these sporadic outbreaks and the success that USDA and other veterinary specialists have had in containing these outbreaks before they spread.

Realize that Asian countries have culturally very different levels of constant exposure to domesticated birds than we do in this country and until now, less rigorous surveillance for disease.
It is no coincidence that type A influenza viruses (the most important types that infect both birds, swine, humans and other animals) most typically originate in Asia.

At any rate, yes, geese can become infected as can any wild migrating or water fowl. Gosling and chicken hatchings are monitored closely in US and Canada, for this reason.

[Surya Gayatri]

11. Grannie, it's taken months

& months for the flu to travel from SE Asia to Turkey. Don't do anything rash--those chickens will be able to live a long & happy life before the virus can leap across the Atlantic, or come over the Bering Strait from Asia. SG

[TomInTib]

12. There is NO logical reason to do this.

This whole thing has been blown completely out of porportion.

If your chickens are isolated from other birds they are at ZERO risk.

As far as humans, there is no risk at this time without ingestion of raw blood or body parts.

Geese can get H5N1 but it has yet to occur in our Hemisphere. Same with chickens.

DON'T DO IT!

[xchrom]

13. yes geese get it too.

BUT i have to echo others here when i say it's way too early.

there's no bird flu here yet that we know.

track with the cdc -- and see what's happening.

peace

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. Thanks for the kind responses

I'm a tight old broad and one thing I want to do is slaughter them while there is no question they are disease free, then I can clean and freeze them. Also, I have young grandchildren who like to play with the chickens. I just don't feel confident right now and I can just see myself in there in a bio hazzard suit (do they make a 4X???) once it is on this continent.

I'll just have to wait until it is over and start another little flock.

[Booster]

16. I'm so sorry for you, but like your attitude to just wait and start

another little flock. Chickens have been around forever, and you are right to want to protect your grandchildren. Hope it's not too long before you can get some new chickies.

[pitohui]

68. oh that's nonsense she will never be able to keep chickens again

the mutation to allow human to human transmission of avian flu has not even occurred yet

there will never be a safer time in human history to keep chickens

she is killing the birds for nothing and no reason

as i said in my other post, if i lived closer, i would be happy to drive over and take them myself, there is zero risk to humans here from chickens

apparently tho there is a huge, huge risk to birds from hysterical humans

[FreedomAngel82]

20. Aw I'm sorry

:hug:

[madokie]

21. my understanding is that All flu's start in the same valley

in China, in Pigs then transfered to foul, Ducks, then spread around the world due to the migration of said ducks. I haven't googled it but I have read this on several occasion for several years now. correct me if I am wrong.

[graywarrior]

22. Should I get rid of you know who?

[snowbear]

29. LOL... I've been telling you to release that poor duck forever..

But you just won't let him down...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

32. WELL, HE DOESN'T GET OUT MUCH...

[graywarrior]

51. He doesn't get out much coz he's kinda tied up right now.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

64. In a bind, you might say.

[f-bush]

23. I'd wait and see what developes if anything!

[donheld]

27. A stay of Execution is sought

This is just too premature. Grannie wait a bit and see what happens.

[bigwillq]

30. That's so sad.

:cry: :hug:

How many chickens are there? :shrug:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. Sixteen

[bigwillq]

37. .....

:(

But they made be better off in the long run.

[DeepModem Mom]

31. Oh,Grannie!

:hug:

[snowbear]

35. I hope you know Tallahassee Gramma.......

That now I'm not going to sleep tonight worrying about those poor chickens!

~~~~~~



Don't do it Grammy! http://uk.gizmodo.com/baby,crying,tantrum-thumb.jpg

[Vinca]

36. I wouldn't do it unless they're sick. For all we know, bird flu

will never turn up here or if it does it might be after your birds die of old age. Just my opinion.

[DemExpat]

39. People here are starting to vaccinate their hobby chickens....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10818232/from/RL.5/

DemEx

[sandnsea]

43. A solution! Yeah!!!

I'll pitch in to pay for the vaccines. I hope there's still time to save Granny's chickens!

[Maru Kitteh]

50. We would be happy to pay for the vaccines.

We're not well off but we had a good Christmas season this year. I'd be honored to pay for the little sweeties vaccines.

[snowbear]

40. I say we put the chickens to a vote!

Yeah.. we should do a chicken poll.

But if we do.. will T-Grannie abide by the results?

[DemExpat]

41. Good idea, I vote wait - far too soon to do it in the US IMO.

DemEx

[jab105]

42. No disrespect...but that is way way overreacting...

the avian flu coming here and getting us all is more fear-mongering of the Bush boogiemen...it is nowhere remotely close to you...and having the chickens as pets means that they arent in contact with other chickens...good grief...there are many many things that can happen...one of the least likely would be for your chickens to get the avian flu...

[Lorien]

48. Agreed. I'd put down the hatchet and turn off CNN

and the rest of the fear mongerers. There's NO EVIDENCE of the avian flu coming anywhere near the US, so killing them just because there may be a remote chance some day in the future that they might become infected...hell, there's simply no logic to it.

[Carni]

46. Damn I don't have that strong of a constitution--

YIKES! Sorry to hear this :(

[Beelzebud]

47. DO NOT DO THIS!

Come on, this seems a bit irrational! Do not kill your birds! There is no bird flu in the U.S..

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

52. Geese aren't birds so you're safe there

:thumbsup:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

54. They aren't???

what the heck are they?

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

66. Some sort of amphibious rodent

[TallahasseeGrannie]

53. CHICKEN CLEMENCY!

Okay, you have all talked me into it. I will compromise and wait until it hits this continent. Maybe it won't even come.

But I won't buy the goslings because I get very attached to those geese and I've never ever dispatched a goose and I wouldn't want to have to.

I thank you.

My chickens thank you.

The fox across the street thanks you.

The coyote down the road thanks you.


You guys are the greatest.

[Lorien]

55. Woo-hoo!

May the chickens live long and bear you many tasty omelets. :toast:

[Mojorabbit]

59. Oh wonderful granny!

I am in Orlando and am keeping my girls. If the flu gets here they will go into their big house with no outside time till it passes.

[Odin2005]

56. DON"T DO IT!!!

Avian Flu isn't even in the Western Hemisphere yet. I'd wait untill it spreads to wild birds that can carry it here from the Old World. As far as I know, none of the currently infected bird populations migrate to the Americas. Live poultry isn't shipped too much, right?

[Odin2005]

57. Ah shoot, I didn't see Granny's last post.

:spank:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

61. Live hatchlings are shipped, believe it or not

in the US mail. My chicks come one day old from a hatchery called Murray McMurray. Check out their website..it is amazing. (I might have spelled it wrong) They come tightly packed and cheaping in a small box, close together. They don't need to eat for 48 hours, or drink, so the window is wide. I have only ever had one chicken dead on arrival. The mortality rate is higher after a few days. I usually lose one or two a day for a week. That's why I order 50.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

62. Actually hatchlings are shipped a lot

in the US mail. My chicks come one day old from a hatchery called Murray McMurray. Check out their website..it is amazing. (I might have spelled it wrong) They come tightly packed and cheaping in a small box, close together. They don't need to eat for 48 hours, or drink, so the window is wide. I have only ever had one chicken dead on arrival. The mortality rate is higher after a few days. I usually lose one or two a day for a week. That's why I order 50.

[pitohui]

67. please stop and don't do this needless deed

before you do anything else get out a map and look at a map, i'm not trying to be sarcastic here, but you need to be aware of that rather large body of water between you and turkey

the children dead in turkey were playing with fuckin cut-off chicken heads as toys

i suggest you don't do that and don't let anyone you love do that

if you keep your chickens outdoors, odds are 100 to 1 that they'll be killed by raccoons before ANY disease gets them, if they do succumb to disease, it will be a nutritional disease, if it isn't a nutritional disease, it will be west nile virus

your home-grown chickens are not gonna get avian flu, even the harmless kind humans can't get, the odds against that must be 10,000 to 1 against

as far as your chickens getting a flu transmissable to humans, the odds are billions to one against

don't make your chickens pay for your paranoia

there are scare-mongers on this site and others who have posted a lot of irresponsible nonsense, my husband does lots of contract work with poultry industry, the avian flu is just sooooo not an issue, it is a scam and welfare for big pharma, and that's all it is

do you know how many humans have died in all of human history of flu caught from chickens? less than 100

if you plan to eat your birds fine, if you are killing them just to kill them, stop and think abt what you are doing

p.s. if i lived closer to tallahassee i would be willing to take the chickens myself to save them from being killed, unfortunately, it's quite a distance from there to new orleans and a rather busy time for us :-(

another p.s. okay just read your follow-up, i'm so glad the chickens have been reprieved, you won't be sorry

[Raydawg1234]

69. Looks like you've caught the fear bug!

[KoKo]

71. One of our DU'ers went to a NIH Party in DC and was told that

Bird flu is being hyped by the NIH (National Institutes of Health) head who is a total Bush Bot fear monger. He said that they hype a new virus starting every August/September to keep people in FEAR. Remember last year it was a flue vaccine for a strain that was going to kill everyone, the year before it was SARS...the year before it was something else.

Only 50 people all over the world have died from this and that the strain will be much weaker from person to person contact than from a direct contact.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

72. Update on Chicken Clemency

I spoke with the extension agent who lives across the street. He told me that if the worst happens (avian flu in FL or South GA) that I won't have to do it, they will come out and do it and sterilize everything. So I am no longer worried.

But I cancelled the gosling order. I can deal with saying goodbye to a chicken but geese are PEOPLE.

Thanks again for all the support and the calming down.