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AMLO: "to hell with their institutions". FOX at 70% approval.

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:53 AM
Original message
AMLO: "to hell with their institutions". FOX at 70% approval.
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 09:54 AM by UTUSN
There are plenty of posts sanctifying AMLO. Please allow a different opinion without personal flaming.

*******QUOTE*******

http://www.heraldextra.com/content/view/191964/

.... But some analysts said the apparent victory could prove short-lived and costly for the party and Lopez Obrador. ....

Recent polls already put

Fox's approval rating at as much as 70

percent, a near-record high. ....

"Let them go to hell with their institutions," Lopez Obrador told

thousands of supporters over the rain drenching the Zocalo.

Leaders of the PRD said they wanted to avoid a confrontation with the thousands of police officers deployed around the Congress. ....

Lopez Obrador loyalists and PRD officials had lambasted the security measures as an assault on Mexicans' constitutional right of free movement.

"They have suspended individual guarantees along various kilometers . . . and this is very serious," said Navarrete. "People cannot go to work, they are stuck in their vehicles (and) children cannot be taken to school by their mothers . . ."

The PRD and its supporters continue to block miles of city streets as part of their civil disobedience efforts. Their encampments on the principal artery, Paseo de la Reforma, cost businesses an estimated $15 million a day in lost revenue. ....

Meanwhile, Fox supporters were not going to be provoked by the PRD's "lamentable decision," said PAN Sen. Santiago Creel, a former interior minister.

"We were not about to respond with violence to violence," he said, adding that Congress will have to transform the political system. "This cannot happen again." ....

********UNQUOTE*******
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Nozebro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. 70% of Mexicans are either rich or stupid? I don't believe it. EOM

nt






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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. 70% Not bloody likely. Who did they poll, his family?
The Mexican electorate just made it quite clear
that he doesn't have anywhere near a 70% approval.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. Bwwwwwwwwwwa
:rofl: more propaganda
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. the poll is obviously a lie. at least 50% voted against the party of fox
after participating in the corrupt election and refusing to hear the complaints fox has not suddenly gained the support of nearly half of those that opposed him.

this is the party that was supposedly going to do away with the old corrupt mexico. it did not take them very long to show that they are the same old thing. pan is the new pri.
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CollegeDUer Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Exactly! What kind of polls are these with these approval ratings?
Obrador and his people will fight for a FULL RECOUNT. What is so wrong about that? What IS SO WRONG ABOUT WANTING A FAIR ELECTION?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
5. Interesting display of anti-Obrador gibberish.
Do you feel this is the place for it?

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
6. And I am supposed to flame you because why? What is your point?
It's a Dallas Morning News report, and, typical of our corporate news monopolies, they think that business losses are more important than democracy and free and fair elections. If business doesn't want to be inconvenienced, they can pay their workers more and support an equitable society, instead of one in which the rich are always getting richer and the poor are always getting poorer. And, in Mexico, we're talking about millions and millions and millions of impoverished people, due to U.S. global corporate predators and neo-liberal (false liberal, the rich get richer) policies.

The Dallas paper quotes another corporate news monopoly--El Universal--saying that Lopez Obrador's supporters in Congress made a mistake in embarrassing Fox. They then quote an unnamed poll that Fox has a 70% approval rating. I frankly don't believe it, and the lack of documentation supports my suspicion. His hand-picked successor won by only a .06 margin, less than one percent, and if Lopez Obrador is right that millions of votes were uncounted or miscounted (and the evidence if I've read about supports his view), then Calderon didn't even win. I suppose it could be a Clinton/Gore situation, where the president's personal popularity outdistances his designated successor and the votes he gets*. But I would have to see a lot more evidence than this, and I really don't believe much of what I read in the corporate press any more. They are so rightwing and such liars! And they are especially bad on the awesome, peaceful, democratic, leftist revolution that is sweeping Latin America.

A president who barricades congress with tanks and Darth Vader troops deserves to be heckled and himself blockaded from congress. Further, one who has presided over as foul an election as this one deserves 2 million people in the streets who won't be moved until every vote is counted. Fox brought it on himself. But what is at issue here is more than a stolen election. It is a lack of inclusion of Mexico's vast poor and brown population in government and economic policy. It is the fascist--and very Bushite--attitude that, if you can grab the reigns of power, all power now belongs to you and your friends and your well-off supporters, and to hell with everybody else. We have become numb to this attitude, but the Mexicans are not. They find it appalling. We are seeing a serious rebellion also in Oaxaca, and throughout the southern states, as well as in Mexico City. This is no small thing. It is a huge revolt against neo-liberalism and globalisation that leaves the poor out, and impoverishes many in the middle class as well. And it is connected to the revolution in South America. Latin American peoples throughout the hemisphere are sick and tired of being exploited and impoverished--and in some cases, gravely brutalized--by U.S. interference in their countries.

Revolts similar to Mexico's have occurred in Bolivia, Venezuela and Argentina, with leftist governments now elected in those countries, as well as in Brazil, Chile, Uruguay and Paraguay (with a strong new leftist movement in Peru which will likely be elected next time around--also in Nicaragua). Friends of U.S. global corporate predators are few and far between (Columbia, a pigsty of pro- and anti-drug money; Guatemala, free of the brutal US-backed military junta, but still right wing; Costa Rica; Panama maybe?). The forward-looking countries are all leftist-run and are banding together in regional economic and political solidarity. They are the future, and the rightwing dinosaurs like Columbia and Guatemala will be left behind. (Venezuela helped Argentina out of its World Bank debt, for instance; and the Latin countries are resisting US/Bushite pressure to keep Venezuela out of the Security Council--Venezuela will likely be seated in th SC next year, with South America's backing.)

The trend is overwhelmingly toward democracy and equitable economic policy. As the recently elected, first indigenous president of Bolivia has said: "The time of the people has come." And if all that Fox/Calderon can answer it with is tanks and Darth Vader troops, then they will most certainly be the losers, in the end. They may try to hang onto power with tooth and claw--and "trade secret" vote tabulation--as the Bushites have, but they would have been wiser just to count every vote, as Lopez Obrador's PEACEFUL millions were/are asking for. But, like the Bushites, they see power as all or nothing. The common good doesn't enter into it. And there is no limit to their greed.

------------------------

*(Clinton didn't campaign for Gore, however--whereas Fox did for Calderon--so much so that Lopez Obrador has accused him of impropriety under Mexican rules (using the office and functions of government to favor one candidate--fair rules that sound almost "quaint," given what we've seen Fox's pal Bush do to OUR election system). So if Fox is so popular why didn't it rub off on Calderon? Could it be that Mexicans like Fox, personally, but are becoming very disenchanted with globalisation and the gaping canyon that has arisen between rich and poor? As with Clinton and NAFTA, personal popularity turns to ashes when you lose your job, your home, your medicare care, your kids' education, and, in the case of many Mexicans and some Middle Americans, your farm, your land, your ability to feed yourself and make a decent life.)

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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
7. To all of the above
1- The PAN is NOT the PRI. As I've said in several repetitions, the contacts in Mexico I know are not the super-Rich. They are employed, represent what little there is of a middle class to working poor. At the upper reaches, the PAN does include some of the super-Rich. My contacts are uniformly PAN and in mortal fear of having their economic scrapings evaporate to AMLO. Any economic consequences will not be felt by the super-Rich.

2- As to the posters ridiculing the particular newspaper: I Googled to find the AMLO quote, which I submit represents his contempt and incipient authoritarianism. The Dallas paper was the first Google item listed. And to those claiming that AMLO got 50 percent of the vote and that FOX's polls are not 70%: The AMLO supporters here constantly misrepresent that AMLO is speaking for ALL OF MEXICO or even a majority. This is simply not true.

I defer to "ConservativeDemocrat" and "nadinbrezinski" in the links below for their more extensive (than mine) facts.

There is a time to take a stand. And there is a time to know when something IS NOT IN THE CARDS, and play on for another hand. And I reject totalitarianism of all kinds, from the Right AND from the Left. While I will never forget 2000, I believe that GORE was responsible for his campaign, his choice of Joementum, his choice of namby-pamby lawyers instead of cutthroats to run his Florida legal strategy, and his choice of the gentlemanly ancient ex-secretary of state to represent him. So I don't criticize him for not "revolting" further than he did. It's not that he didn't fight hard enough in the Florida legal situation: He made some fucked up choices all along. And I apply all of this to Mexico today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2025652

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2021967



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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. "...economic consequences will not be felt by the super-Rich." Gee,
I wonder why they and their government and the corporate news monopolies are stirring up all this trouble by refusing to recount all the votes--if they have nothing to lose. I think Lopez Obrador WOULD give Mexico fair taxation and a more equitable economy, and that is precisely why they wouldn't recount the votes.

As for the middle class/working poor being "in mortal fear of having their economic scrapings evaporate to AMLO"--it's classic divide and conquer. Why shouldn't THEY be getting higher wages, more tax breaks, and more services, instead of just scraping by? Who do they think has been stealing from them--the poorest of the poor? Fuzzy thinking, I'm afraid. The ones who ARE stealing from them, hand over fist, get a pass--and they tremble in dread of those poorer than them getting a fair shake. They need to take a lesson from Argentina, where the poor and middle class banded together and drove the World Bank/IMF--which had crippled their economy and forced draconian cuts to all social services--out of their country. They are much, much better off now--free of onerous debt, with all indicators rising.

It sounds to me like your contacts are like all of us, who believed Clinton's promises that he would include labor and environmental protections in NAFTA. Now our country is bleeding jobs, while our major manufacturers stop off briefly in Mexico, to exploit unorganized labor at $3 an hour, then, the moment the Mexican sweatshop workers start to get organized, jump over to Cambodia where they only have to pay 25 cents a day. Shopping for the cheapest, most unprotected labor, all over the world. Global corporate predators. Born here, used our infrastructure, our educational system, our science and engineering communities, our highly productive and creative and loyal work force, our emergency and fire protection systems, our medical system, our legal system--all of them once the envy of the world--and our favoritism to big business in tax cuts, land and other benefits, and our reliable banking system, to build themselves into global corporate megaliths, and now crap all over our heads and all over the rest of the world, from the polluted cotton fields of Uzbekistan to their mid-ocean oil spills to their corporate oil war, and with their slaveshop labor and their pittance wages with no benefits.

That's what Fox is doing to Mexico. The same thing. The rich get super-rich--and the poor and the middle class get shafted.

Well, I hope your friends wake up and join the revolution. If they think Fox/Calderon are going to protect what little they have, they are fools.
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