Anyone else here astonished by the vitriol aimed at Irwin's death?

[WilliamPitt]

I am.

So far, I've seen a whole bunch of people in GD either actively celebrate his death, announce that he deserved to die, or make some other kind of cutting comment. Apparently, there is film footage of the moment of Irwin's death, and someone in another thread said his family would sell the video to make money.

Is everyone drunk? Did people get into the moonshine or the rotgut?

Reminder: There is a widow and two suddenly fatherless young children involved here. Locate a tiny sense of decency and bear that in mind.

(/sermon)

[Sherman A1]

1. Yes, it seemed a bit over the top for me.

I never watched his programs, but many comments seemed to be rather mean spirited.

[redwitch]

2. some days DU doesn't feel right. Today is one of those days.

Sad.

[OzarkDem]

3. Its getting close to election day

I suspect we're seeing much more subversive activity than usual and other people get caught up in it before they realize where its going.

We'll probably see a lot more of it until election day.

[LostinVA]

106. A decent amount of them

Aren't exactly long-time posters....

[elehhhhna]

217. Time for a zero-tolerance policy. We're infested.

[LostinVA]

291. I'm right there with ya

[ClassWarrior]

13. I fear the creatures are crawling out from under their bridges again.

And I'm not talking about crocs.

NGU.

[calimary]

192. Very likely.

It's sad. My husband and I were just talking about him. How at least his kids will have a good life because of the good living he made, AND at least they have a record of him - a substantial, interesting, and entertaining one. They will NOT forget him. It's a shame. Sad. Poo!

[LiberalArkie]

27. Some days it sounds like the same people who wanted to lynch Clinton

[calimary]

146. Indeed. Maybe some of us are just too hungry for blood.

I'm sorry this happened to him. He was fun to watch and very entertaining. I hope the end was quick and as painless as possible. Hey, look - he died doing what he loved - fraternizing with the beasties where the wild things are.

[NMDemDist2]

4. yes. n/t

[neverforget]

5. It's amazing how rude people can be. The body isn't even cold and they're

spitting on it. Two weeks ago I lost my dad. If someone had been as vitriolic towards my dad as some of the posts have been, I would have been in many fights.

[Bucky]

102. For what it's worth, sympathetic posts seem to vastly outnumber crass ones

I'm deeply sympathetic about your father. I'm also one of the lucky ones who's dad has been a real anchor in my life. Whenever I lose him, I know my world is going to feel a little empty for a long while. I wish you peace.

[calimary]

151. Sorry to hear about your dad. It's never easy.

May he go with God.

[renate]

191. I'm truly sorry about your loss

:hug:

[neverforget]

270. Thank you Bucky, calimary and renate. I appreciate the words of

sympathy. It's been tough the last 2 weeks.......:grouphug: :hug:

[Deja Q]

6. His estate has a fortune. I'll think of those who lack money instead.

As for his family, they can sell what they like. No doubt they will; corporations have sold far worse things to, um, "commemorate" events. :( (yes, it is disgusting, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody sold it -- if not simply leaked it out either...)

[WilliamPitt]

9. Selective compassion?

I must have missed the day they taught that at Sunday school.

[Deja Q]

38. I told the same thing to the person who tormented and assaulted me...

...in a church. (you didn't expect to see that, now did you.)

[hlthe2b]

60. I don't actually think this is a new phenomenon...

although maybe more obvious now...

One example (among many) that comes to mind is the death of John Denver in a plane crash. The comments I heard were amazing among those who I'd always viewed as like-minded and compassionate. When they weren't excoriating him for his DUI problems in recent years, they were making light or even celebrating his downward turn in musical popularity, and sneering at any record of environmentalism--way before environmentalism and human rights became "cool" for celebrities to become involved in. Many seemed to relish the reports that his own mistake with the fuel on his plane led to his death...

More recently, I think of Peter Jennings. Rather than focusing on his long career--which was quite honorable, his recent failures to "stand out from the crowd and be fired for taking on the Bushies* when no one else would," had many DUers similarly reveling in rather unkind sentiments...

Even Christopher Reeve came in for his share of harsh criticism after his death--for trying to work with the administration on stem-cell and whatever else some found reason to criticize. :shrug:

So much for "not speaking ill of the dead."

[Booster]

105. I certainly agree with you re: John Denver. I worked on his TV

show and found him to be probably the most charming, sensitive, wonderful man I have ever met, other than my own brother. I was shocked when I saw the negative things people were saying about him. Notice I didn't add "perfect" in my description of him - he wasn't perfect, but he came as close to perfect as anyone I've ever met, and he gave far more than he ever took - I still miss him and recently bought a DVD of one of his concerts so I would never forget just how special he really was.

[hlthe2b]

110. Kudos to you spenbax...

I always had a very special admiration for JD. He was flawed, as we all are, but authentic--something very hard to maintain in showbiz or other successful endeavers. I miss him to this day..

[renate]

193. aww... that's so nice to know!

He seemed so gentle and goodhearted--how nice that his real-life personality matched his public persona.

When I hear his beautiful songs from now on I'll feel even warmer and fuzzier inside. Thank you!

[NotGivingUp]

180. it made me think of john denver, too. he created a lot of beautiful

music and did so many good things. he was a caring human being. i never could understand when people would make fun of him. i've loved his music for over 30 years now.

[L A Woman]

243. when aaron spelling died...

people were dancing on his grave because his television shows were not of a high enough caliber. OMG!!!!

i am grateful to have not been a member here when Paul Wellstone died...or Mother Teresa....or Princess Diana....or Mister Rogers...God knows what I would have seen...

[hlthe2b]

258. well, we might have had a troll or two with Wellstone....

but I don't recall anything but very sincere grief during that period. Diana and Mother Theresa were, of course prior to DU, but I don't recall any public nastiness then, either-- Well, perhaps Christopher Hitchens who had always been a drunken foul-mouth lout with an axe to grind with respect to Mother Theresa.


Funny, isn't it? I didn't read any threads about Spelling, but I guess that wouldn't surprise me. Lordy, if any here haven't committed enough "sins" to be excoriated, shoud only the "worst" about them be memorialized, I'd like to meet that person. I know I'm truly not so evolved!

[SoCalDem]

278. People who are "elevated" are somehow held to a higher everything..

Apparently Steve used a lot of his own money he earned, to pour into the zoo and to buy up native lands so they won;t be developed.. Will that make his estate worth a lot? Of course, but it's not like he used his money for whores, booze & cocaine.. He did something positive with it...and of course terri seems like she will continue with his dreams...

How everything will continue withour him, is another story...since HE was the enterprise.. It seems as though his life-long friends might step in to run things with her...as a tribute to him, if for no other reason..

[The Straight Story]

18. And I would bet a year's pay they would rather have him then $$$

Do we begrudge people with more than us so much so that we can only have compassion for those with less than us?

[Deja Q]

34. Agreed, it is a generalization on my part.

Mind you, the actions of a few tend to color the whole group. And he's said he's no liberal and has bashed others who are nature conservationalists...

I know he's done some good things in his life too. But he was no saint and there are far more people blindly treating him like a saint.

What if I started jumping on the backs of animals, who use their self-defense mechanisms in return? I'd be called "foolish" too. :eyes: For being knowledgeable on animals, he made one hell of a mistake. (besides, other conservationalists would be more inclined to film from a reasonable distance, or if nothing else not play stupid games with the creatures, who by instinct are going to feel threatened. They don't see Steve, or anyone else, as a friend who wants to play with them!)

All things considered, I'm comparatively "in the middle" regarding him. Or, at least, I haven't by any measure said the cruellest of comments.

At least he didn't drive race cars for a career.

[hfojvt]

40. Hey now

The "intimidator" was a saint, and on the front page of every newspaper in the universe, except the NY Times. :P

[mcscajun]

247. I don't know about the print edition, but he was the top story on the NYT

website this morning when I got up.

[hfojvt]

269. RU just messing with me?

Or do I have to explain everything? :argh:

Hypnotoad said: "At least he didn't drive race cars for a career."

To which I replied that Dale Earnhardt Sr., known as the "Intimidator", was on the front page of every newspaper when he died, except for the Librul NY Times. Thus I spoofed the well-known, and debunked claim of Ann Coulter, and was thoroughly hilarious to those who have been paying attention :spank:

Maybe my delivery needs work. Let me try another one. "Donald Rumsfeld is giving the President ...

[The Straight Story]

47. His techniques may have not been what some liked

but he did draw an audience and educated more than others.

He reached the lives of many, made them laugh, and taught them something while doing it that - in the end - probably benefited this world more than anything I have done (on that large of a scale).

Hell, my life has been real far from perfect. I hope when I am dead though people don't judge me on what I did wrong, but on the things I did right.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

64. Here's some info on his conservation efforts.

Also, his "mistake" with the sting ray is indeed a freak mistake. They bury themselves in the sand. He surprised a buried stingray, which he probably didn't even see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin#Environmentali...

Irwin was a passionate conservationist and believed in promoting environmentalism by sharing his excitement about the natural world rather than preaching to people. He was concerned with conservation of endangered animals and land clearing leading to loss of habitat. He considered conservation to be the most important part of his work: "I consider myself a wild-life warrior. My mission is to save the world's endangered species."<7> Irwin bought "large tracts of land" in Australia, Vanuatu, Fiji and the United States, which he described as "like national parks" and stressed the importance of people realising that they could each make a difference.<12>

He had urged people to take part in considerate tourism and not support illegal poaching through the purchase of items such as turtle shells, or shark-fin soup:

These Hitlers use the camouflage of science to make money out of animals... So whenever they murder our animals and call it sustainable use, I'll fight it. Since when has killing a wild animal, eating it or wearing it, ever saved a species?

There are people who butt out their cigarettes in gorilla-paw ashtrays, with wastepaper baskets that were once elephant feet, who have ivory ornaments… who wear cheetah fur. Don't buy these things! Then there'll be no market and the animals won't be killed.

We have domesticated livestock raised for consumption and perfectly good fake leather and fur, so why must we kill wild animals to satisfy the macabre taste of some rich person?<13>


He founded the Steve Irwin Conservation Foundation, which was later renamed Wildlife Warriors Worldwide, and became an independent charity. He was described after his death by the CEO of RSPCA Queensland as a "modern-day Noah", and British naturalist David Bellamy lauded his skills as a natural historian and media performer.<14> Irwin discovered a new species of turtle that now bears his name, Elseya irwini—Irwin's Turtle—a type of snapping turtle found on the coast of Queensland.<15>

He also helped to found a number of other projects, such as the International Crocodile Rescue, as well as the Lyn Irwin Memorial Fund, in memory of his mother, with proceeds going to the Iron Bark Station Wildlife Rehabilitation Center.

7. ^ a b King Murdoch, Anna, "He's smart, by crikey", The Age, The Age Company Ltd, 10 June 2003. Retrieved on 2006-09-04.
12. ^ Enough Rope transcript: Steve Irwin, 6 October 2003.
13. ^ Wildlife Warriors: In the Media 2006, copy of an article from Australian Women's Weekly, August 2006.
14. ^ Reuters: Australia stunned by death of "modern-day Noah", 4 Sep 2006.
15. ^ http://www.deh.gov.au/cgi-bin/abrs/fauna/details.pl?pst... ;pstrTaxa=3312;pstrChecklistMode=1

[LostinVA]

112. Thanks for posting this, sis

Unbelievable today, huh? You'd think we were fondly remembering Limbaugh or something...

[demobabe]

130. Correction

"Also, his "mistake" with the sting ray is indeed a freak mistake. They bury themselves in the sand. He surprised a buried stingray, which he probably didn't even see."

This is not accurate. He had a cameraman in front of the ray, and he was swimming over top of it - indeed a mistake - to be over top of the ray in 6 feet of water within striking distance of it's tail.

I agree it was pretty freak as accidents go, but he's dodged the bullet many times where he was in striking position of the animal and didn't get killed.

I'm sad too, but the odds got him. It is a painful reminder how careful we must be around wild animals. Indeed, tragically sad.

[elehhhhna]

220. How do you know this? Link please.

[demobabe]

236. Here's a link

Skipper Pete West, whose boat Deepstar was acting as film support vessel, said the crew were filming the bull ray in 2m of water 'when it stopped, turned and hit him in the chest'.

Mr West, of the National Underwater Marine Agency, said the attack was not provoked.

"Under no circumstances was he harrassing the animal, he wasn't poking or prodding it at all," he said.

"The rest was just tragedy ... he was doing what he normally does."


http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,20355284%255E14787,00.html

[LostinVA]

111. Irwin didn't "jump on the backs of animals."

I think you've been watching the wrong shows.

What the hell was his mistake yesterday, huh? SWIMMING IN THE OCEAN????

[elehhhhna]

219. He jumped onto the stingray. Right. And Roy shoved his throat into

Montecore's mouth.

I suggest you try reading the news reports from AU.

[LostinVA]

109. Give me a break -- seriously

Terri Irwin is not going to do that. You apparently might, she won't. I wouldn't.

Most of their money is tied up in trust funds for the kids and the zoo.

Will's right: "selective compassion." I wasn't raised that way, my mind can't even grasp acting that way.

[leftchick]

129. just so you know

he gave back almost 100% of what he made to conservation efforts.

[ldf]

160. WOE! you are better than that.

you have shown that in many of your responses to other subjects.

having or not having money is not relevant.

and what someone one did to you in church gives you no excuse.

this is not about you.

[LostinVA]

292. Actually, his response doesn't surprise me

I've seen way worse from him before. Including today about Steve Irwin... toasting him as a "faux conservationist."

[warrior1]

7. I don't get DU

sometimes. Your right Will. I just leave here when it gets like this. Sadly it does sound freepish to me.

[stepnw1f]

8. Threads Like That Get Them Out of the Wood Work

I like to know who is who. It's just a damn shame that the death of a man who had a positive impact on people and conservationism should be attacked at all. Like I said, I like to know who is who, and where people stand.

[Phoonzang]

10. I know what you mean....

...maybe DU is just the "left" version of the Free Republic after all.. :-(

[orpupilofnature57]

22. ???????????

[The Straight Story]

30. I think it refers to the hate some display

or outright callousness towards fellow humans.

Ala - if you don't have the same political faith I do, then you are not as good as a person as I am. If you die, get hurt, etc, screw ya.

That kind of mentality.

People say the world would be better off without religion (and people like me I suppose who have a religion) yet they can at times worship at the altart of dogma and drink from the well of politics, then run off preaching theirs is the only true way.

Right. Left. Sometimes they share similar MO's.

[orpupilofnature57]

A valid point

[Phoonzang]

94. Thank you...exactly what I meant

and more eloquently put.

[elehhhhna]

222. Blaming the victim is a trend GW's boosted for 6 solid years.

Just saying.

[ClassWarrior]

29. On the other hand...

...it could be all the FReeps that troll this board whenever they get nervous about some threat, real or imagined, to their fatally flawed "conservative philosophy" - otherwise known as crony capitalism.

NGU.

[LostinVA]

115. No, I don't think so n/t

[elehhhhna]

221. Or the FR's are trolling here.

[EstimatedProphet]

11. I am

Short of the baby incident, what has he done to deserve all the bile? And the funny thing is - I EXPECTED it. There's some trend that people have (not just DU) towards self-adulation or something, that when someone famous dies, they gloat, as if the fact that the person was famous was a personal affront to them.

[elehhhhna]

225. blaming the victim is a classic form of denial of ones own mortality

[EstimatedProphet]

239. Yes, I was just thinking about that

Maugham's The Razor's Edge comes to mind...

[Redstone]

12. No shit? I'm staying out of GD, then. That is just really low-rent.

Redstone

[hfojvt]

48. are you bashing poor people now??

:spank: :spank:

"Third rate romance, low rent rendezvous."
Yer making "the queen of my double wide trailer" angry.

[Redstone]

55. Ha! That gave me a good laugh. Thanks.

Redstone

[hlthe2b]

76. On the threads I've seen the majority are saddened...

and countering any criticism or negativity... at least it appears that way to me. Perhaps it is jealous of a man who lived every second of life to the fullest, or simply a need to "release" through a bit of dark humor?

[LostinVA]

117. It's been really, really bad

[The Straight Story]

14. Was just talking to the wife about this

Seems almost ghoulish in a way.

And I thought we were the party of good hearted people who were compassionate.

The guy seemed pro-environmental, loved animals, and has spent years educating fellow humans about the creatures we share the earth with.

Crikey mates, give a guy a break!

[PCIntern]

15. I for one, am not surprised...

I have witnessed the transparent 'blood lust' of posts of those excited by the setbacks or deaths of so many righteous people fighting for their respective democratic countries in the last few weeks here, that nothing and no one can shock me.


I'll leave it at that...

[mcar]

16. Unfortunately, I'm not astonished

I've seen this happen here in other instances. People are so quick to judge others and so quick to pile on.

Why doesn't it surprise me? Because over the 5 years I've been here I've seen threads that referred to me and others like me as a:

Breeder (because I have borne children)
Cultist (because I'm a Christian)
Sheep (see above)

It's really sickening here sometimes.

Your last statement is exactly right: His widow and children and, I might add, his legions of young and old fans, deserve a tiny bit of respect - if his memory doesn't.

[The Straight Story]

24. I'm with you on that one-I feel like a suitcase covered in negative labels

at times.

People talk more nicely about castro then me :)

Oh well, it does take a thick skin I suppose out here on the Mutual of Omaha's wild Internet Kingdom. I just didn't think this site would be like that as much as it has been on some things.

Overall though, good and kind folks here. A few bad apples ain't no reason to cut down the tree.

I am sure I have done just as bad at times myself, we all have those days sadly.

[mcar]

35. I love it!

A suitcase covered in negative labels :rofl:

You and others like you are the reason I keep coming back! Thanks for this.

And you're right - most are good and kind folks and all have the right to their opinion - I certainly have quite a few of my own. :toast:

[Fierce]

17. Funny, I feel the same way about the way the Santorums...

...grieved their baby's death -- a story that crops up here every full moon or so. Something about death that brings out the weird, I guess.

ETA: I mean, I feel the same way some here slaver all over and judge the way the Santorums grieved their baby's death.

[elehhhhna]

230. Oh just stop. Dead baby sleepovers are disgusting. Period.

[longship]

19. It's the Net thing...

For some reason everybody *has* to give their opinion, no matter what it is, and regardless of how it may be interpreted in context.

Plus, there's a bit of mean-spiritedness about it. Some people don't seem to be very nice sometimes.

[Annces]

20. Because there is a message in his death

It is symbolic. It is not just a death of a person.

Look at how he died. There is symbolism everywhere in the whole event.

[whalerider55]

86. i'm interested in what you found symbolic about his death

i'm sure it feels pretty real to his kids and wife.

irwin was probably Australia's most effective advocate for the environment. actually, aside from mel gibson, how many aussie experts in any field can you name- i couldn't even recall the name of their prime minister this morning in a conversation with the wife and kids about irwin.

the passion he brought to his work, which was essentially the un-distilled passion of an educator for both their subject, the learning process and the students, was genuine and persuasive, if not infectious. it certainly was righteous; as a montessori teacher myself, i could see he had it going on in a big way.

i always look for the symbolic elements in an event myself. but understand, as freud said, that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. was the symbolic value that he died doing something he loved, or was it that if he was seen as an exploiter of wildlife, it literally reared back and bit him?

i guess i'll keep my thoughts with his family and kids, and let the rest of the commentators comment without my judgment added. i'll miss him, as a fellow educator who recognizes the magic when he sees it in another and can only aspire to the didactic and experiential joy he felt and brought others.

and my kids, whose wide-eyed appreciation of this astonishing world was stoked by irwin, will miss him as well.

g'day mate. well done, well done.

whalerider55

[Annces]

113. Symbolism

What I find symbolic about it is that he was harassing an animal, (and wild animals let you know loud and clear they don't want you near them), and that he got punctured right into his heart. The heart is the center of love and responsibility. So yes, I think it was a giant karmic payment and advertisement from the universe that this person was doing something that was wrong toward this animal.

He may have done a lot for conservation, and gotten a message across, but it had to be done in a circus clown way, which is how we seem to need our information. As a nation, we are far, far away from the line where respect for animals lies. There are ways to teach children about nature and respect for all life, but our education system doesn't do that and certainly most parents don't either. It is usually the child that winces at the pain of an animal, not the adult. There is a spirit in all life, and the native peoples know this, but our culture does not, far from it.

We need to have a more mature relationship to nature then we have, with our heart and responsibility. Steve Irwin didn't represent that to me at all. He was like a young boy, tackling dangerous animals.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

131. First of all, there is nothing to indicate he was harassing this animal.

Many divers swim around stingrays with no problems. This was a freak thing.

Secondly, the heart is not "the center of love and responsibility." The heart is just a muscle that pumps blood around your body.

[Annces]

169. You have your opinion and I have mine

Just because your opinion differs, does not mean I am the one who is wrong. Haven't you ever felt that circular energy in your heart, when you are with someone you love, or are inspired by a piece of music?

Secondly, he was always grabbing, jumping, running in circles around animals. That is harrassment from an animal's point of view.

And third, why a FREAK accident? Just one of those things? The universe has a sense of humor and timing.

[LostinVA]

197. I was going to answer your post

But it's sooooo...... I can't even find a word for it. I'll let someone more awake than me do it. I'm putting you on ignore.

And, haruka is right -- the heart is a muscle that pumps blood... everything you mentioned is in your mind or -- if you believe in it -- your soul. That's a FACT. You can have your own opinion, but not your own fact.

[elehhhhna]

232. Lost, do you get the feeling we're wating valuable time being baited by

some of our newer members? I do.

Stay ALERT.

[LostinVA]

294. Yes, I really, really do

Lots of low posters throwing out lots of chum the last 24 hours....

[elehhhhna]

231. "Harrassing" crocs causes death by stingray? Link or retract, please....

[elehhhhna]

234. Let's review:

Your heart is really your brain.

You speak for all animals.

This accident is funny and timely.




Did I miss anything?

[LostinVA]

295. gigglegigglegiggle

[SeveneightyWhoa]

274. Watching Colbert much?

"You have your opinion and I have mine."

Truthiness, defined.

Fortunately, the facts don't agree with you. Irwin wasn't attacking or harassing the animal, no matter how much you'd like to believe that was the case.

[whalerider55]

214. i certainly respect your point of view, but...

don't find your symbolic analysis persuasive. I've taught kids for years, and worked as a naturalist as well.

the first thing you notice about kids is that the inherent respect for animals that you feel is not, well inherent. It is learned. They approach the wonder of the world purely instinctively- there is a little fear, which is inevitably overwhelmed by a desire to look, feel, touch, interact. My own kids, kids I've taught, they all look a lot like Irwin, boys and girls as well; my beloved, courageous, worm-holding Caterpillar peeking daughter among them. It seems, from my limited observation he always communicated two important lessons into every interaction with animals- he was always aware that he was in the moment dealing with a wild, natural animal, to be respected and understood; and that at the same time, he needed to convey a message to kids about the value of environmental and species conservation.

A clown? Perhaps, altho I find that a little uncharitable. What my kids got from him was that every animal, even dangerous ugly ones should not be harassed, but that they also deserved to live in an environment that was pristine and suited them.

Is that the first step toward creating a loving and markedly altered attitude regarding nature that we both agree needs to happen if the life force of the universe is to continue? I hope not, because I hope my partner and I have already taken the first step with the kids. But is it a message they took from Irwin? Yup, right out of their mouths, this morning, to my ears.

I also personally try to avoid interpreting karmic payback on the grand scale you suggest might be at play here, because I'm way too insignificant and unlearned in the ways of the universe to think i could get it right.

besides, if what you suggest was really the deal, i'm left to ponder this.

given all the shit he has shoveled into this world, why hasn't the universe caused Dick Cheney's pacemaker to explode like a toaster tossed into a bath? Heart, seat of responsibility, crimes against nature...

maybe Irwin's crimes were greater?

whalerider

[LostinVA]

119. What symbolism? That freak accidents happen to anybody?

[elehhhhna]

235. NO! Just famous people. Duh.

;-)

[XOKCowboy]

21. I am too...

I've added a few people to my ignore list and want to thank ForrestGump, LostinVA and haruka3_2000 for adding some needed balance to the vitriolic subthreads.

[LostinVA]

122. *blush* Thank you

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

135. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[Gormy Cuss]

23. No.

Using the fresh corspe as a platform for some harangue is becoming all too predictable.

Actor Glenn Ford died last week, and it took only a handful of posts before someone wrote a negative one based largely on his unwavering support of Republicans. Sheesh.

[deutsey]

25. People here are saying that? I'm glad I haven't been active here

today.

A lot of people here need to disconnect from their computers and TVs for a while and reconnect with their humanity.

[hlthe2b]

26. At the risk of putting on my "Dr. Freud" hat...

I wonder if it isn't sort of a projection--maybe of subconscious envy for some.... Irwin lived life to the fulllest, had a definite purpose, and exuberance that many of us will only dream about. Maybe envy makes it easy to focus on any faults of his screen "persona", rather than Steve Irwin, the man.

Just my take...:shrug:




And, crikey, I will miss him. He introduced so many to the wilder (literally and figuratively) world around us...

[driver8]

28. I'm surprised -- I thought that DU'ers had more compassion than that.

I thought I was over in freeperville for a moment.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

[hfojvt]

31. I am a little bit astonished at the hype about the vitriol

Near as I can tell, praise, sorrow and condolences outnumber vitriol by about 8-1. But the vitriol has inspired half a dozen threads.

edit: I am also flummoxed by my inability to type.

[mcar]

44. The vitriol is so....vitriolic

It's rather shocking in its intensity. I think that's why it has inspired so many threads. There's so much anger in some of the posts that it's really disconcerting.

[hfojvt]

70. but it is not prevalent enough

to really represent DU except in our diversity and outspoken-ness.

[MelliMel]

32. Not really

But compassion seems in short supply everywhere in the world.

[Nutmegger]

33. I'm not surprised

This isn't the first time I've seen such comments. The ignore thread button has become my new friend.

[Contrary1]

36. I'm not astonished...

and furthermore; it doesn't bother me one way or the other. People are different, and so they have different opinions. It would be nice if all people were kind and considerate, but that will never happen. Why would it be any different here at DU?

How people can get so riled up about what a complete stranger posts on a bulletin board is beyond me. It seems that some are posting from one thread to the next just to keep it going. Both sides just need to let it go.

By the way, I was a big Steve Irwin fan.

[MrSlayer]

37. No, I'm not astonished.

He was one of those love him or hate him kind of guys. I personally thought he was an annoying buffoon so I'm not surprised some people are treating him with derision. I refrain from my usual dark humor on this site so I stay out of the threads where I might not be able to resist and just say nothing.

[WilliamPitt]

41. "and just say nothing"

A sound decision, sadly not emulated often enough.

[dweller]

284. Karma is sucha a ...

these words should ring as a last tone
to those that feel death's sting.

but, by then it's too late.
dp

[tocqueville]

39. Irwins page on Wikipedia defaced

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin

pics not suitable here

I take a screen copy

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE ?

[Pirate Smile]

51. Truly sick. What the hell is wrong with people? I'm sure a poll of

DU would show most people are saddened by this.

When there is breaking news, frequently an obnoxious minority shows up but that certainly isn't most people here.

I'm sure a poll would prove it.

Many, like me, just try to avoid that nasty crap. Perhaps we should spend more time challenging it but sometimes it just doesn't seem worth it.

[ContraBass Black]

42. You of all people ought not be astonished by any vitriol on DU.

:D

[WilliamPitt]

49. Meh

I've earned at least a portion of the fire that comes my way, and it comes from people who deal with me here on a daily basis. That personal connection is the thing. This guy Irwin is a stranger to everyone here, a face on television.

Put it this way: I'd bet everything in my wallet that Irwin never told anyone on DU to go fuck themselves. I have, and thus deserve to get kicked around every once in a while. Getting this nasty about a total stranger is just bizarre to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. I am staying out of those threads

Sure seems like we have bigger fish to fry these days than arguing over celebrities lives and deaths.

[Texasgal]

53. Some people can focus on

more than one thing ya know....

[Balbus]

45. It's jealousy.

He lived his life the way he wanted. Did exactly what he wanted to do. He was happy at what he was doing, he loved his family and his family loved him. That stings some people to see someone live like that and when he stops living, it's one less person they have to feel envious of.

[earth mom]

79. I was thinking the exact same thing only that people are also jealous

of his financial success too. Steve had it ALL and some people can stand to see that when they themselves don't. The mean spirited attitude around DU today is beyond ugly and evil in my book because Steve was a good person and just doesn't deserve to be dissed like that!

RIP Steve-my family and I will miss you greatly! :cry:

[Karenca]

118. I was thinking that too.

Immature

Hateful

Jealousy.

[LostinVA]

139. I often don't agree with your posts on certain topics, Balbus

But this one is totally right on...

[buddhamama]

46. astonished, no.

what does astonish me though, is the amount of time people are willing to commit to hating someone who has, as far as i can tell, done them no harm.

i'd prefer people remain indifferent than feel hatred toward Steve. He was a a passionate man, who tried to his best to educate people to the perils we face (and no, i don't mean the animals but our ever increasing destruction of the environment).

we have lost our way...

if we cannot respect one another how is it we can be expected to respect those we view as less intelligent than us, namely animals, insects, heck even micro/macro organisms. we are arrogant, us human beings. it is sure to be our downfall.

[ForrestGump]

259. "we have lost our way"

I think we have.

Thank you. :hug:

[PresidentWar]

50. Can you give us some examples?

I think that "vitriol" would be a subjective description regarding an emotional event like the death of a well known person.

Show me some specifics, please.

[LostinVA]

140. There are many posts dripping with it

Go search the Steve Irwin threads. Look at THIS one. I've been reading the threads all day, and it's astonishing -- it was STEVE IRWIN.

[PresidentWar]

158. Like FOR INSTANCE?

I'm asking for specifics. Please don't send me off on a needle hunt. Surely if you have witnessed this vitriol you can point me to a specific or two? Come on, it simply can't be that difficult.

[notadmblnd]

52. I've only read one thread regarding Steve today

and yes, there was one particular poster that was completely obnoxious. Maybe it's agood thing I havent' spent time here today. It has always been my opinion that misery loves company. The people who appear to be heartless when events like this occur are miserable human beings and are only happy when they are making people miserable too. I've also found that if you do not react to their rancid comments, that they usually just fade awy.

[proud patriot]

54. after seeing the vitriol in a "how to cook chicken" thread

3 years ago in the lounge, nothing surprises me anymore ..

I feel bad for Steve Irwin's family .

[guinivere]

67. Seriously? A huge chicken cookin' brawl?

That's understandable. :crazy:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. No one was allowed to talk about chicken for awhile. nt

[proud patriot]

164. Seriously

:-)

[hlthe2b]

137. Man... I must have been out of town that week....LOL

I do think that puts our DU pissing contests in perspective...Vitriol in a "how to cook chicken thread!" :rofl:

[LostinVA]

144. bwaaah! I don't remember that one!

[KoKo]

165. Thanks for the levity! It's true..."How to Cook a Chicken" could get

DU in a tizzy...if the chicken died in a way that caused controversy.

Great Post! Even though it's still sad about Steve Earl...a discussion over his death starts to look like relatives who appear at the wake and start to hash over what the deceased meant and how much he/she will leave him. Family FIGHT....

So...I guess it's just the way it is... I'm sorry about Steve Earl...just can't stand the fighting ...but feel compelled to join in on sides, I guess..... :-(

[hlthe2b]

181. Koko1, I think you mean Steve Irwin.... Steve Earle, fortunately, is

still with us making music and talking fav tunes on his Sunday AAR show--at least as far as I know...

[KoKo]

189. lol's .... a mega typo on my part.....hanging head in shame. Thanks for

picking up on that. I don't know why Earle came into my head...Sheesh. :blush:

[hlthe2b]

195. no problem...LOL.... 'Just didn't want to start a rumor

Earle might have thought it reflected his status with AAR (which of course, could be the case, given all the recent show changes)...

[guinivere]

56. I was very surprised and saddened by some of the remarks that

were made. I mistakenly thought that Dems were a compassionate bunch.

[OzarkDem]

71. The vast majority are

Sometimes all it takes are a couple of disruptors. People jump on the bandwagon and before they know it, are saying things they regret later.

Fortunately, Dems are also known to be very forgiving people, another trait that makes them superior to conservatives.

[jus_the_facts]

57. As The DU Turns...

:hurts:

[buddhamama]

61. too true

yes indeedy. Hi sweetie :hi:

[jus_the_facts]

66. Sad but too true...

...SIGH! x(

:hi: b'Mama! :hug: :loveya:

[Canadiana]

58. It's quite sad

The lack of compassion is upsetting. I feel sad most of all that this kind man died and has left a family behind. But I feel his death was also senseless....I wish I could say 'well if he hadn't been tempting that croc, he wouldn't have been maimed'. But he was killed by a freak accident with a frikin sting ray - very rare. He might as well have been killed by a stroke of lightening.

[W_HAMILTON]

59. Unfortunately, that's one of the bad things

Almost no matter what happens, or no matter what you say, someone will be against you. I guess it's the opposite of the groupthink of the Republicans.

Someone can post "I like dogs."

That post will inevitably followed up by:

"Why don't you like cats?"
"There are more important things in this world than discussing something as trivail as this."
"Its spelled TRIVIAL."
"Sorry, typo. And it is 'it's', not 'its.'
"So, why do you hate cats again?"
"Why is this in General Discussion, doesn't this belong in the Lounge?"
"I like dogs, too."
"You should give a cat a shot. I bet you would like them. Check out www.getcats.com."
"OMG, don't go to that site. They treat the animals horribly there. How could you advertise them like that?"
"I hope your dog is spayed or neutered, if not, you're being irresponsible."

ETC.

That's about the only regret I have about this site sometimes, it's like no matter what you say, you'll have someone tear you a new one for whatever reason. :( Usually about something that doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand. So, when it comes to Irwin, I guess it shouldn't be all that surprising that some people will find something to argue about when it comes to his death, either.

[SammyWinstonJack]

74. !

:evilgrin: Your fake DU dialog, too funny! :rofl:

[OzarkDem]

87. Spot on!

That's a fairly accurate analysis of DU conversations. Its sometimes hard to decide when to challenge people for stepping over the line. We're sometimes too conscious of hindering someone's "self-expression" at times when we need to keep a discussion from getting to negative or destructive.

In the end, we're liberals, we're kind and compassionate people and sometimes that means we have to limit someone's "self expression" when they become too hurtful and disrespectful of others.

Gosh, I hope I didn't make too many spelling errors. ;-)

[gaspee]

99. About the funniest thing

I've seen on DU. And so true.

[durrrty libby]

100. So ....why is it that you hate cats?

You are spot on

I love it when a thread is posted and someone comes in and asks

"What is the point of this discussion, why is it here"?

Why post in a thread you don't care about? It is foolish

[petersjo02]

62. Not surprised

I saw the same kind of vitriol expressed here on DU at the time of Barbaro's horrendous accident, vitriol aimed particularly at his owners, the Jacksons, for daring to spend their money in an effort to save their horse's life. Apparently the problem was that the Jackson's had the audacity to arrange for appropriate veternary care for their horse before checking with certain individuals at DU first, to seek advuce about how they "should" spend their money.

It is one thing for a person to disagree with another person's decisions about various things, but to condemn others who wish to be supportive of friends and family who are struggling with grief, or in Barbaro's case just trying to save his life, is crazy, selfish, meanspirited, cruel, disgusting, disrespectful. Maybe such hateful people have no one in their own lives to care about them, so they're jealous. It is hard for me to understand that mindset, so I'm just speculating. I found the ignore button pretty quickly in some of the Barbaro threads and doubt I've missed much for lack of reading those posters' subsequent messages. As far as I'm concerned, all life is sacred and I grieve the loss, whether it be equine, human, reptiles, whatever. Those of us who aren't so hateful are entitled to feel sadness and grief at the passing of beautiful and spirited beings without being judged as less than sane by uncaring slobs with questionable motives.

[renate]

198. "...before checking with certain individuals at DU first...."

:rofl:

and

:applause:

[patrice]

63. Is it okay to call them trolls?

Or do I get deleted for that?

Whatever you call them, they stink.

[ChiciB1]

65. Totally Out Of Line... He Was Actually So Much More Than

Crocodile stunts! Sure he made that "baby" stunt, but he apologized and I'm dare say he has done so much more good all over the world. A Cousteau type IMO!

I'm really sorry people are so baseless and MEAN!

[tularetom]

68. He seemed like a decent guy and I always enjoyed his show

and as far as I know there is absolutely no evidence that he ever abused animals as some have alleged. I will miss seeing him and the variety of critters he interacted with. My sympathies and prayers go out to his family.

However, I cannot shake the sense that if his show was at all authentic, he was destined to meet his end in an encounter with something that crawled, slithered or swam. And I felt this way the first time I saw him pick up some poisonous viper by its tail. I also believe that he must've known this was how he would go out.

The only happiness I feel is that, from all reports I've seen, he didn't suffer.

[JVS]

69. Verily I say unto ye, those who live by the pointy parts of wild animals..

shall die by the pointy parts of wild animals.

[rockymountaindem]

72. I don't get it either

I never watched his shows because I thought he was too loud and honestly, I'm not a fan of reptiles. But, he did what he loved and I never got a bad vibe from him.

Even if he was kind of a jerk, and I'm not saying he was, the reaction of a lot of people around here is pretty revolting. I'll save my "oh boy! he's dead!" reactions for old Nazi war criminals and the like. Naturalists, of any kind, just don't illicit that kind of reaction from me, and I'm surprised that anybody could get so riled up against a pretty harmless figure. And, to quote John Donne, "every man's death diminishes me, for I am a member of mankind; therefore, ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee". I think those are words to remember.

[Mythsaje]

73. He pushed the envelope on a regular basis

showing us a wider view of the wild world than we may have experienced otherwise. He took risks and did some things that left me gasping "god, that guy is nuts!" but, overall, I enjoyed watching him. I've read some of the things people have posted about him "molesting" or "terrorizing" animals with a kind of numb shock.

I once watched him drag a timber rattler out of its hole by its tail, lift it up, all the while crooning "isn't it lovely," and had to laugh, even while aghast. It takes a big person to have that much goddam nerve. He wasn't afraid of the wild. He loved it, and lived in it, and, in many ways, was bigger than life himself. He was a giant, and he loved the animals. He risked his life to save them, and to show how important they are to all of us.

The world is diminished a little by his death, and it's sad that a lot of people will NEVER understand that.

Too bad.

[bumblebee1]

194. If I'm not mistaken,

that was the same episode when Steve looked down while squatting and found another timber rattler between his legs. I don't know if he was bitten or not.

[Mythsaje]

241. I think it was the same episode

and if I remember right, he narrowly avoided being bitten that time.

[cboy4]

77. Yes. Some of these people really need to see psychiatrists, I'm serious..

Or at least switch over to the GOP where this kind of nauseating vitriol is always welcome.

[genie_weenie]

78. Astonishing the glee and relish... It's not like he led a nation into a

false war or has made gross profits for himself and his allies from said War.It's not funny, it's not decent, it's not appropriate.

To me an Ironically appropriate death would be a Chickenhawk Leader crashing his little plane onto the deck and killing himself in an effort to exploit a mission accomplished moment...

RIP Croc Hunter

[tuvor]

80. Not really--There's almost a hundred thousand DUers.

[eShirl]

81. Apparently if someone is famous, they don't deserve to be treated with

the same human decency as everyone else. Even, or perhaps especially, in death.

[astonamous]

82. I must agree...I have tried to stay away from all the threads

regarding Mr. Irwin. My feelings about the guy and his career are irrelevant to the fact that he was an educator. Good or bad he did bring in an audience and if he got a few people excited about the world around them and the animals that share this planet with us, then he did his job. I don't agree with some of his "circus" type tricks sometimes, but he was also an entertainer and an over the top one at that. He was a character and he will be missed.

Trudy
www.pryorsplanet.com

[BeHereNow]

83. No, I'm not, given the high numbers of trolls here these days.

Consider the source is all I'm saying...
BHN

[Beausoir]

84. Not astonished in the least. It's predictable. I compared 3 threads.

The anonymity of the internet allows people to say things they would never have the guts to say in real life.

There are some very bad people hanging out here at DU. More and more...it resembles the "other" place, where hatred and malice rule the day.


First thing this morning,I compared three separate threads on Irwin's death. One in LBN, one in GD and one in The Lounge.

At that time of the day, the LBN thread was just that, people looking for facts about the accident.

The Lounge thread was full of people offering sympathy and sadness.

And the GD thread was split evenly between sad people and people who actually take pleasure in the man's death. People who celebrate the death of a father, husband and son. People who believe that tragedy is a cause for celebration..to tap dance on a coffin.

There are some seriously mentally fucked up people in the world and some of them hang out here. That much is certain.

[durrrty libby]

85. It is sickening but sadly not surprising

I truly believe dems are the most empathetic people, but sadly
it seems some of our gov’t stink is trickling down, and has reached the pores of good people





:hangover:

[az chela]

88. I am deeply saddened by the death of Steve Irwin.

How sad that someone so young and courageous had to die such a violent death.
He loved animals as much as he loved humans and he lived his life to the fullest

[FlaGranny]

89. Amazing isn't it

that there are so many cruel folks here? They show up on other occasions too.

[neebob]

90. I can't decide if I'm more astonished by the vitriol itself

or the overuse of the word. Mostly, though, I'm glad that being bombarded with disapproval by invisible strangers is still one of the worst possible consquences of saying what one thinks on a message board in cyberspace.

[NC_Nurse]

91. Lots of angst spewing here lately.

I dunno what's up. :shrug:
I was really sad to hear about it myself.
Of course I couldn't help myself from joking about the animal "molesting" thing...oh well...

[Kerrytravelers]

92. Are these people long-time DU contributers... or just those who show up

to create sensation so michelle malkin can quote us and o'lielly can smear the "looney left?"

It doesn't matter whether or not I liked Steve Irwin, his politics, his show or public appearances. A guy died. He left behind a young family. I don't degrade a young African male who dies and leaves behind a young family, I don't degrade a young Republican Christian fundamentalist who dies and leaves behind a young family, I don't degrade a liberal with whom I disagree who dies and leave behind a young family, I don't degrade a Mexican farm worker who lives below the poverty line and dies, leaving behind a young family. I don't degrade all these varied people- why is Steve Irwin any different?

When someday, Bush dies, although we hate his policies, his beliefs, his administration, the deeds his family has done and everything he stands for- are we going to throw a party on DU?

Allow me to RSVP now to that party- no, thank you.

[LostinVA]

150. Many are low posters -- but not all

One is a long-time, well-known DUer.

[Cleita]

93. No. This vitriol has been done many times at DU.

I'm not surprised at all, but I am very disappointed every time it happens.

[Jazzgirl]

95. Absolutely astounded.

Its really very weird. So disappointed. :(

[etherealtruth]

96. Saddened yes, astonished no...n/t

[Raine]

97. Disgusting but nothing new

here or anywhere else, society has losts it's civility. I hate having to live in this kind of world. :cry:

[KoKo]

98. Whaaaa.....I've not seen this "vitriol" you talk about,.. have links?

a few posters thought he might have had a "death wish" and thought his series was a little OTT...but I've not seen what you are talking about as a MASSIVE DU TRASH of him. :shrug:

I think most of the posts I've read were very fair in pointing out he was a "Risk Taker" who died in the cause of his work. Lots of folks are torn up about it...but he always knew the risks he took. CNN even showed an old Larry King interview asking him if he had his "Crew" carry snake anti-venom in case he was bitten? He said, he NEVER had his crew or anyone cary "anti-venom" because he felt (like his Dad had taught him) he could charm the snakes after the intitial encounter.

I think he lived "close to the edge at all times" and it's sad he died the way he did...but he knew what he was dealing with...and sadly he just got too close to a Sting Ray while diving that dealt him a lethal blow. It's only the third Sting Ray Fatality in all Austrailian statistics about Sting Ray deaths.

It's sad. I remember when Phillipe Cousteau died in that "experimental aircraft "Ultralight" and his father's work lost a great voice that could have continued his legacy. Phillipe's death sort of siderailed the Cousteau legacy for a time.

When one lives so close to the edge of Wild Kingdom one knows the risks.

RIP Steve...lots of folks will remember your legacy just like many remember the Cousteau's...who opened the underworld of the sea to all of us.

:cry:

[sinkingfeeling]

101. Yes, it's surprising.

[WindRavenX]

103. I am fucking PISSED

People wonder why people don't give a damn about the enviroment and the planet, and it's because there are too few people like Irwin. Irwin has lead a life of informing the public and taking the conservation movement to the masses with GREAT results.
ANYONE who calls what he does exploitation can kiss my big biologist ass.

[LostinVA]

104. Jesus Christ, yes

Both the vitriol and the out and out LIES about him. Ugh.

What's so hard with saying he was a decent guy who was a huge advocate of animals and the environment?

[WindRavenX]

108. apparently, he "molested" and "exploited" the animals

:eyes:

And DUers KNOW that I am a BIG TIME animal right's supporter-- Irwin has done NOTHING but raise the public's awareness on issues concerning conservation and wildlife

[LostinVA]

153. And terrorized -- I asked ForrestGump to post on a thread or two

Because he's a wildlife (marine) biologist, and thinks Steve-O was a good guy.

I love how certain Duers -- long-timers and newbies -- just kinda make stuff up -- he was a "faux" conservationist, etc.

Bonkers or just mean?

[WindRavenX]

155. I'll take a third catagory-- "assholes"

:)

(ForrestGump is important to post on this, because he has WAAAY more experience with handling animals than I probably do--I'm just a lil' ol biologist who has done education programs with kids and animals)

[LostinVA]

166. My SO has a background in Marine Biology

And I had an eagle ray swim under me while I snorkeled. I also have pet a pot-bellied pig and stalked the wily cat across my living room floor... (for real -- the SO and I do a "Cat Hunter" parody with our kitties).

[WindRavenX]

168. LOL

I want to swim with rays-- that sounds so cool :hi:

And a pot-bellied pig? How cute!!! :D

[LostinVA]

186. It is cool -- and kinda scary

They leave you alone, but things happen.

I love little piggies....

[notadmblnd]

266. There was a great parody done on children in a school yard

by a website called camp chaos. It was halarious. I've been wanting to let people know all day about it it but was afraid people would take it the wrong way. It wasn't derogatory towards Steve at all. to me immitation is the greatest form of flattery, and taking another look at the caroon is a great way to celebrate his life and to ponder all the people who benefited from it.

[durrrty libby]

124. I tell you what. Even bad experiences can be learning experiences

There are some posters I won’t forget, and the next time they have something to say,
I’ll know not to waste my time reading them

I have no interest in the opinions of insensitive, callous, blow hards.


:nuke: :thumbsdown:

[LostinVA]

I'm right there with you

[Nictuku]

107. It makes me wonder

...

It makes me wonder just how low our country has slid. When I was young, I had such a hopeful vision of our future. I believed that enlightenment of mankind was on the rise. But now it seems we are going backward.

Sure the guy should never have had that baby near a crocodile. But as far as I can tell, not a single one of us is without making some kind of horrible mistake in our lifetimes. I'm sure Mr. Irwin regretted it.

It certainly is no reason to crucify the guy. Especially on the day of his death.

God Rest his Soul.

[WindRavenX]

114. agreed

He has lead a lifetime (albeit a short one :( ) of education. That must be commended.

[AlCzervik]

116. Yes i am very surprised.

[Karenca]

128. I'm not surprised

just because someone shares your political beliefs
doesn't mean
you'de want to have them over for coffee.

Really, the majority of people are compassionate,
but to think that everyone thinks exactly like you
just because they're posting on a message board
doesn't work.

But I agree with you------I think it's disgusting
and I am sorry Steve Irwin is gone.

[Holly_Hobby]

120. Please see this thread for quotes from Steve

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2047948

[demobabe]

121. I don't think you meant this thread the way it appears

I haven't seen ANYBODY HERE celebrate Irwin's death. It is a horrible tragedy, I think everyone can agree.

This GUY IS DEAD and to me it seems like this thread could have been created to crucify another poster you don't like or actively compete with professionally.

Now THAT would be indecent.

But I have faith that wasn't your intention and I'm simply reading you all wrong.

Like it or not, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and method of grieving, not just Will Pitt's opinion or grief reaction.

It is a fact Irwin used those animals in dangerous situations to promote his own career. There are a million National Geographic style animal programs. This danger is what set Steve Irwin apart. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

The fact that what he did was dangerous and it was likely he was going to die doing it is not just a simple fact to be brushed aside nor a matter of sensitivity.

As for whether DUers are drunk today, I don't know anything about that. However, there is a poster here I've considered my friend who has posted drunk, and I've had their posts removed to save them from embarrassment.

[WilliamPitt]

123. "I haven't seen ANYBODY HERE celebrate Irwin's death"

Don't make me have a copy-and-paste party. I'm not imagining things or making this up. Go look for yourself, especially in two threads: the original one, and the one describing the existence of video of his death.

[demobabe]

133. So who are the posters you're referring to?

[PresidentWar]

145. I've asked this question twice. Answered by silence.

Perhaps Mr. Pitt is long on indignance but short on substance here? I don't know what other conclusion to reach here.

[Midlodemocrat]

178. LOL. You're kidding, right?

You came to that conclusion about Will in two weeks?

Why don't you do the research? Will is right about the vitriol. It is sickening. Some of the posts are straight out of freepville.

"short on substance"...Will's been called a lot of things, but that's a new one.

[PresidentWar]

202. OK, then defy gravity here and give me a concrete example.

I am listening.

[Midlodemocrat]

207. Here's a better idea. Contribute to DU so that you can use the

search feature and look for yourself.

You're so sure they aren't there, you must have read the threads that Will's referring to, right? And, if you haven't, how do you know he isn't telling the truth?

[PresidentWar]

209. dont you worry, some other enterprising individual finally cited one!

Which was damn near a miracle, considering it took me almost two hours to wrench one from the thread.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

How about you go and actually read the threads instead of asking for

everything to be handed to you? Read the big 300 post thread on Irwin and the one about the video of his death. All of your substance is there. Please read it before coming to conclusions.

Edited to add: The worst ones have been deleted, but there are still plenty of posts to back up what Will and others are saying.

[PresidentWar]

204. Surely if you are so adamant about this, you cant recall a SINGLE example

This is getting odder by the minute.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

211. There was one (may have been deleted) with the subject line

"FUCKING FUNNY."

However, I don't think I'm expecting too much by asking you to go read the threads in question before jumping to conclusions and onto people who have actually read the threads. Did you have somebody do all your homework for you? Seriously, in the time you've spent harassing everybody who has actually read the threads, you could have gone and read the threads we're talking about, instead of just trying to start shit with people.

[MelissaB]

212. Post 165 in this is a starting place. n/t

[Laurab]

224. Here's a better conclusion for you -

You're not supposed to "call out" other posters on DU - read the rules. It's always better to draw educated conclusions.

Then, perhaps, read some of Mr. Pitt's writing - there's plenty of it around here. You'll see that "short on substance" is not applicable.

Welcome to DU .

[PresidentWar]

228. This isnt the first time I've told the Emperor he wears no clothes, Ma'am

and it won't be the last. I don't stifle speaking the truth as I see it merely because its not pleasing to the crowd.

[Laurab]

229. The truth?

that's interesting.

You answered so fast, you can't possibly have read the rules yet....give THAT a try maybe?

[PresidentWar]

238. The rules do not say you may not challenge someone's position.

Which I've done. Perhaps you are looking at a different set of rules.

[demobabe]

248. Isn't this entire thread calling out DUers?

Shouldn't it be removed according to the rules?

[PresidentWar]

256. Good point!

[L A Woman]

240. are you incapable of opening any other thread but this one? n/t

[PresidentWar]

245. Do a search and find out! :)

Sorry, couldn't resist

[xmas74]

249. Why doesn't he show you the posts?

Because it draws a fine line in the interpretation of the DU rules. You have to be careful how you present it or it could be considered calling someone out-something that is not allowed on DU.

Comments have been made that it was in the original thread in GD about Irwin. You'd just have to sit down and scan through the posts.

[PresidentWar]

257. Because they don't make his point.

In fact, most posts about Steve Irwin on DU have been positive. Which leaves no other conclusion than this thread being intentionally divisive and shit stirring for no socially redeemable reason. Have you seen Mr. Pitt, who started it, comment much past the first few posts? It well appears that he threw a hand grenade in a room and slammed the door, just to see what covered the walls in the aftermath.

I indict this entire thread as a violation of said "rules".

[ms liberty]

268. If you'd like to see some of the insensitive posts that have been

referenced in this thread, all you need to do is go to the other threads discussing Steve Irwin's death. I've read them myself, and some of them were from members I like and respect. While most of the posts have been compassionate, there have been some which were not.

I also do not think this thread was intentionally divisive. It gives us a chance to express our dismay at some rather unpleasant posts that are upsetting to many of us. As someone who's been coming here since shortly after DU was started in 2001, I am becoming somewhat concerned with the tone I've seen here recently.

[Name removed]

280. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

138. Jaysus Christ are you sitting counting "Troll Posts" that you keep a Tab

on what some DU'er might post? One would think you would have better things to do than find maybe 10 posts of skepticism or trolldom out of hundreds on DU who are sincerely broken up about Steve's death.

Why is it always trashing a few trolls that get's you to do these posts where you trash the few for the many....and some obscure posts that ticked you off.

:shrug: Sigh........ Wrathfulness...I guess.

[LostinVA]

159. WTF? I agree with Will

There have been more than a few "obscure" posts -- some of them really, really nasty.... towards Steve Irwin AND other DUers. Calling other posters childish, etc. Crazy stuff.

I don't know nor care what your problem is with Will, but he's right.

[demobabe]

183. Generalizations are dangerous

I don't know which posts you're talking about. Once again, everybody should be given the respect to grieve about a public figure in their own way. If posters are calling other posters childish or whatever, I'm sure the mods will remove those posts as they're inappropriate.

But without specifics, we're just left with generalizations and bad logic which only promote division: it's either my way or NO way.

Example: "You're either with us or with the terrorists."

What you're saying is that we should allow certain opinions, but not others. That the DU would be a better place if we just cut out certain opinions we don't agree with.

If you believe in the First Amendment of the Constitution, you might want to rethink what you're saying.

I just can't agree with the main idea of this thread that some people's opinions are more valid than others.

People do and will continue to say nasty things. But what if somehow I got the mods to ban all postings that agreed with Will Pitt like your response here? Would you be upset at that?

I would hope you would...

[PresidentWar]

201. Bravo.

[WilliamPitt]

288. Oh fucking VOMIT

I attempted to haul an all-too-common standard-issue GD death frenzy back from the brink...

...and you throw "You're either with us or with the terrorists" into the mix?

Shame.

Shame.

Seriously. Shame. Be embarrassed.

Wow.

[LostinVA]

296. I would prefer to be with the Crocs... or especially the wombats

They are so cute and plushie...

[durrrty libby]

141. Sometimes people agree with the ugliness, so they choose

not to see it

[Name removed]

147. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

190. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

156. There have been posters who have done just that today

I've been reading the threads since 630 am, EST.... Will is right.

And you are mistaken about Steve's using the animals. SAnd have proved one of Will's points.

[demobabe]

200. "And you are mistaken about Steve's using the animals."

All those animals that tried to bite, sting, dismember or eat Steve Irwin were doing this voluntarily.

I'm not placing judgment on Steve Irwin for using animals. Every time we go to the zoo, we're "using" animals. Animals that are tagged and released are being "used," too for research or preservation benefit.

Other than scaring the living daylights out of some animals, Steve Irwin didn't inflict any harm to them that I know of. As I've posted many times today, I do have respect for his work, and am really sad he's gone.

However, I don't agree with the way he behaved around animals that children might want to emulate. I have experience with exotics, have been bitten by exotics, and would never want my child handling reptiles the way he did. It's not that he was abusive, it was that he put himself in dangerous situations that I wouldn't want kids to copy.

[Garbo 2004]

163. Here's one post that might qualify...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2044351&mesg_id=2044623

[demobabe]

218. Well, it's brutal

Other than the good riddance, the poster has some valid points... I don't think that person is celebrating, though. Just is not particularly sensitive. Is this the widespread vitriol Pitt was talking about?

[Garbo 2004]

251. "Good...got what was coming to him" not the least bit celebratory, just

not "particularly sensitive?"

LOL

[demobabe]

254. Yes, insensitive

The poster said "good riddance," and stated the reasons they didn't like the guy. It was insensitive, yes.

But they didn't say "Yay! Croc Hunter is DEAD! Let's have a party!"

Some people didn't like the guy. That's their right.

Shoe on other foot: how come you didn't come and defend this guy when he died (and I don't approve of him either and am not trying to equate Steve Irwin to him):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/duforum/DCForumID70/1182.html

[Garbo 2004]

275. I simply responded to your post that you hadn't seen anyone celebrating

Irwin's death. The poster said it was "good" that Irwin was dead and he got what was coming to him. That struck me as more than a tad "insensitive" and more toward well, saying it was "good" that he died. So the poster would have had to call for a "party" in order for his apparent satisfaction at Irwin's death to qualify as "celebratory?" I see. You're right. I should have noted he didn't use the party hat smilie.

And is there some obligation that one must post in every prior thread relating to a death, including those prior to membership at DU, in order to post a comment in one now? Ah. Well let me just travel back in time and join DU in 2003 to "defend" old Strom.

Perhaps you could provide a list of other threads so I can remedy similar past oversights so I may be free to comment in future on such a matter without such egregious lapses being raised. But then the "how come you didn't post in this thread" rule can be applied to other subjects as well. Oh dear.

Really. How silly.

[Gman]

167. It shouldn't be a shock that Irwin died, The guy was an adrenalin junky.

So it shouldn't be a shock that he died like he did. If Irwin died of a heart attack, that would have been a big shock. Everyone has seen the dangerous stuff he did which made millions upon millions of people exclaim, "That MF's crazy!" And unfortunately, he continued the dangerous stuff after he had kids knowing full well he could orphan them in an instant. Granted he quit the crazy stuff on TV for the Crocodile Hunter after the flack he took over the baby incident. And that was a good thing for him and his family.

But the guy was an adrenalin junky. Yes, he "died doing what he loved", but he loved adrenalin. who hasn't heard his loud "WOOOOOOOOOOOO!" after escaping a croc that intended to take him for a death roll, or that adder that he had by the tail and just barely kept it far enough away to keep from getting bit. Who hasn't let out that loud "WOOOOOOOOOO!!" after an exceptionally fine line of coke? Don't know anymore circumstances other than what was reported this morning. I don't know if what he did was a reckless act or not. But he had long ago lost his natural fear of dangerous animals, or maybe the fear caused the adrenalin rush. I don't know.

OTOH, Irwin fully deserves all the cedit due him for his conservation work as well as his work that benefited tourism and general good will towards Australia. Irwin was a great conservationist who just so happened to also be an adrenalin junky. He was a great asset to a slew of causes, but he's now gone and left a wife and two beautiful kids as well as world conservation organizations that would have coninued to benefit from his still being alive. I just shake my head and think what a shame. He probably wouldn't have been able to accomplish as much without the adrenalin rush causing behavior as that's what made him famous. But he also coulda/shoulda quit. Unfortunately many junkies can't quit. Smokers often can't quit. Its these addictions that end up being the cause of the addict's ultimate demise and it no doubt had to play a part in Irwin's demise.

[LostinVA]

199. Swimming over a settled ray and dying in a freak accident

has nothing to do with being an adrenaline junkie. It could have happened to anyone swimming in an area where rays are -- which is almost everywhere.

[demobabe]

242. That isn't what happened

They were filming the ray and it is suggested it felt boxed in by Steve and a cameraman and attacked as a result:

"Skipper Pete West, whose boat Deepstar was acting as film support vessel, said the crew were filming the bull ray in 2m of water 'when it stopped, turned and hit him in the chest'."

http://townsvillebulletin.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,20355284%255E14787,00.html

[Midlodemocrat]

125. I'm not surprised, saddened, yes.

I don't understand grave dancing. I've suffered too many deaths in too short of a span to revel in someone's loss. Regardless of who it is, someone loves that person and is grieving their loss. I don't have it in me to ridicule their sorrow.

I personally liked Steve Irwin and I think he did a great job introducing us as an audience to the 'less cuddly' creatures of the wild. I appreciate what he did for the zoos of Australia and his commitment to conservation. His enthusiasm for the animals he worked with was absolutely contagious.

I hope he didn't suffer. I hope it was quick. That he might have suffered is too much to ask his family and friends to bear.

[Autonomy]

126. I'm glad I've not been reading DU much today

I've not seen any of these distasteful posts. Thankfully.

[LSK]

127. yes but they are a minority

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2046861&mesg_id=2046861

[Coexist]

132. Yes. It is ugly and strange.

[Rex]

134. Not surprised, seen some morbid shit here over a lot of topics.

I always thought a croc would get him. Poor guy.

[DeepModem Mom]

136. People resent success, especially when it involves a lot of money --

so they hate the person who has had GOOD LUCK (we don't all get that), forgetting that, almost always, these people also have a fierce work ethic, perseverence, high goals, a willingness to take risk, etc., and, most always, a love and passion for what they do.

It's sad -- and unattractive.

[KoKo]

154. I agree....it's all about "Resentment" for someone who had luck..

The guy died and it's very sad...and so many are grieved about it....but it's about RESENTMENT.... Yeah...right..:puke:

[DeepModem Mom]

175. Are you puking on me? nt

[KoKo]

177. Absolutely Not! It was a sarcastic "puke into the wind." n/t

[DeepModem Mom]

182. Sorry!

:)

[Name removed]

142. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

143. Rachel Ray drives me bonkers

However, I think she's a decent person. And if, gods forbid, she died tragically, I won't go on a thread and rant and rave about her. Weird to me, especially since I'm aware of certain DUers who adore her.

[entanglement]

148. Sad and shocking n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

149. It embarrasses me when a group with whom I identify acts so ugly.

I understand that DU is has a huge population with a variety of beliefs, but I am stunned at how ugly some people can be.

I have defined DU as a group of progressive, caring, intelligent individuals. After today, I am going to have to re-think my definition and with whom I want to identify.

This is embarrassing and ugly and just wrong.

Irwin was a vital, energetic, man so full of life. He taught us, in his unique attention-getting way, the lessons of valuing all life, not just the cute and cuddly.

I have never been so ashamed to be a part of this place.

[Skittles]

176. sometimes I am lucky to be out of the loop during the day

I work nights and saw the scroll pop up on CNN - Steve Irwin killed in marine accident - it broke my heart, and I did not hear read details until 20 minutes later. I haven't read the ugliness and don't intend to. People, revist your humanity.

[Crabby Appleton]

152. Not astonished in the slightest, sad to say - R.I.P. Steve

[bluestateguy]

157. yes.

I think he did far more good than harm, and was a true friend to the environment. He educated people about the environment, and we need more of that.

He was famous. Of course his death will get more attention than some nobody who dies. Geez.

[Jamastiene]

161. Well said. Some people don't deserve to call themselves

human beings if they can't have a little tiny amount of respect for the dead and the family of that person who died. I can just imagine the pain Steve's family must be going through right now. Those hateful comments directed toward Steve Irwin serve only to make the news of his death more painful for them and for Steve's friends.

[countingbluecars]

162. I am taken back

by the hateful Coulter/Malkin type comments.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

170. I Said Earlier That I Wish I Could Look Each One In The Eyes And Tell Them

to go fuck themselves. They are utterly bitter morons who I under no circumstances would care to be associated with.

Steve Irwin was a down to the soul good man with a good family who is hurting right now. Anyone who would be so petty as to throw their vitriol at him and his family at this tragic time can, well, simply just go fuck themselves. Selfish heartless fuckers.

[ForrestGump]

263. I'd rather just succumb to the call of my most base, reptilian

instincts and deck the mofos.

If there's ever a national DU meet-up, I can fully envision a few people rolling around on the floor with broken faces and me getting cuffed while shouting out the various transgressions that those pigs were responsible for, incuding the worst of the gravedancers here. So I'd better not go to this hypothetical national meet-up, I guess. Wouldn't be prudent.

[OzarkDem]

171. Send a message to the moderators

ask for their cooperation here in restoring civil discourse. Maybe there isn't anyone moderating right now. Who knows? Its a holidy, after all.

[DireStrike]

172. Absolutely. You'd think he was a child porn ringleader or something

He didn't do anything bad...

[Awsi Dooger]

173. I'm not even going to sample it

I can gather from the number of threads and some of the headlines that the reaction has been asinine, if not disgraceful.

One person said he was this close to leaving DU based on the comments.

[SmokingJacket]

174. Not everyone here is on the same page.

I don't have television at my house -- I know the guy *entirely* from flicking past his show while sitting on motel beds and looking for something to kill time. My impression of him was that he was constantly manhandling wild animals. That is an activity that IS worthy of criticism. He acted in an incredibly cartoonish way, and I'm not surprised that some people on a public message board are treating his death like a cartoon.

It's fucking tragic that he left behind a wife and two kids, and I certainly hope his good work with conservation and habitat continues.

(on a different note -- why is this board subjected to sermons when only a minority of people are deserving of one?? I don't doubt that obnoxious posts exist here, because I certainly haven't read all the threads, but what from what I HAVE read, the negative posts are in the minority, even if you include the thoughtful negative posts like symbolman's.)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

187. Check out his wikipedia page.

It gives a decent summary of all the good he has accomplished. Read ForrestGump's (a biologist) posts in the big thread. Both of those things should explain the good he's done and where he comes from.

[ComerPerro]

179. I saw a comment in a thread saying producers would sell the video for $$$$

but didn't see anyone saying the family would.

I wouldn't be suprised if that comment was made, though.

And, yeah, I do think someone in production will leak it out.

[LostinVA]

206. Yeah, the comment was made

By long time posters -- who are now on my Ignore list. Terri Irwin would NEVER do that.

And... posters saying they would love to see the video of Steve being killed... and we would too, and if we said we wouldn't, then we were lying. I don't want to see a video of ANYONE dying -- even people like Hitler or Stalin. Ugh.

[ComerPerro]

208. I have a morbid curiosity about it, to see how it happened, I admit

but when I think about it, its not anything I want to see, at all...

[LostinVA]

210. What I read said

The ray was startled, turned, and swam away. That's it. Nothing dramatic. Something that's happened to many divers and snorkelers.

[ComerPerro]

213. Yeah, see, that's what I was unclear on at first, when I was most curious

and the more I reflect on it and who he was, the less I am even remotely curious about seeing it.

[blondeatlast]

272. Yes, a longtime DUer did say that he wouldn't be surprised if the

family sold the vid.

It's in the Lounge, but I won't revisit it.

[nini]

184. Not at all

There's a faction at DU, and many message boards for that matter, that would rather post intentionally upsetting bullshit to get flamewars going than to take a second and contemplate the loss of a human life and the loss it is too millions who saw the good in him.

These people seem to be incapable of understanding what life is all about. If they didn't like the man or his methods - that's no reason to bash him as he did a lot of good for animals and causes for the environment while those keyboard jockeys sit and spew out their arrogance and ignorance, and do nothing to contribute to the world themselves.

This is the shit that makes DU look stupid. This is the shit that tarnishes humanity for all.

They make me ill.

[troubleinwinter]

233. "intentionally... to get flamewars going" I suggest hit 'alert' on such.

[mopinko]

185. there are many miserable people out there.

and some screwed up ones as well. lot of free floating pain, waiting for an anchor. sad.

[SaveElmer]

188. Not the first time...same when Kirby Puckett died...

Seems some people revel in deflating peoples high opinion of certain famous people, and seem to choose the moment of that persons death to reveal their opinions...

Pretty pathetic actually

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

196. I agree my friend. I've been trying to get people to understand compassio

for a while, but few seem to see things my way. I still feel no one should ever be wished pain or death. We are supposed to be human beings (morally superior as liberals, if you think that way), then why can't we see each other with compassion, respect and sympathy? Peoples capacity for abject hate sadly seems to far overwhelm their capacity for abject love.

[AtomicKitten]

203. He worked hard for a great cause.

Made it fun and interesting. His death is tragic and he leaves behind a young family. A genuine loss for everyone. RIP.

On edit: It is unfortunate that a handful of morons is so bereft of humanity that they feel safe in the anonymity of the internets in spewing ridicule of the premature and tragic death of a decent guy. It is neither amusing nor cool. Shame.

[IndianaGreen]

205. Meaness has become an American trait, Will

None of us is without sin!

I dare say that much of the vitriol directed at Steve Irwin was born out of ignorance. His popular TV show was but a small facet of the man and his work.

Conservationists said all the world would feel the loss of Irwin, who turned a childhood love of snakes and lizards and knowledge learned at his parents’ side into a message of wildlife preservation that reached a television audience that reportedly exceeded 200 million.

“He was probably one of the most knowledgeable reptile people in the entire world,” Jack Hanna, director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo and Aquarium in Ohio, told ABC’s “Good Morning America.”

<snip>

He was a committed conservationist, running a wildlife park for crocodiles and other Australian fauna, including kangaroos, koalas and possums, and using some of his TV wealth to buy tracts of land for use as natural habitat.

<snip>

Irwin is survived by his wife Terri, daughter Bindi Sue, 8, and son Bob, who will turn 3 in December.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14663786/

Irwin's death is a loss to all those that value this wonderful and fragile world in which we live.

My condolences to his family.

:cry:

[elehhhhna]

237. It's Bushworld now. Blame the victim and feel superior.

[mtnsnake]

215. The people who you're referring to seem to come out of the woodwork

whenever someone of fame suffers agony, misfortune, or death. It doesn't matter if the person was a noble person like Steve Irwin. In fact, the better the person, the more those bitter assholes relish in the misfortune of others. To derive pleasure out of someone like Irwin's death, those people are no doubt very bitter, very unhappy and warped.

[pitohui]

216. i'm flabbergasted that people would act this way EOM

.

[stepnw1f]

226. yah... "flabbergasted"

"Gee willackers!"

[PresidentWar]

227. I'm flabbergasted that it took 200 + posts to cite a single example

of the righteous indignation that started this thread. Conclusion? Yes, some people said mean things about Steve Irwin. But from what I could see, the vast majority of the comments were very positive toward him and his family.

Some people see a couple of fleas and assume the whole kennel is infested. I suspect its because thats the sort of dismal world they have been aculturated to see.

[Beausoir]

273. Well, of course, from the flea's perspective..what you are doing

is perfectly normal.

However, for the rest of us, who don't normally live with flea infestations, we tend to be very sensitive to the filth that fleas harbor.

Most of us don't like to live in filth. You are obviously immune to it.

Fleas....be gone! Please.

[PresidentWar]

282. Meaningless ad hom, but that seems to be well tolerated

when joining with the amen chorus. That's OK, it's not something I havent seen before.

Perhaps the metaphor of making a mountain out of a molehill will better serve your understanding.

[dogday]

223. I think the idiots do it on purpose

they get a buzz out of it or they are doing it on purpose to actually inflame a thread.. Anything to ruin it... That is what it seems like to me when we get these posts that are so freaking off the wall, that it does not feel right to me either, nor does it feel honest...

I sense a large amount of dishonestly in some of these postings.. I also sense that some are actually trying to cause the kind of effect they are actually accomplishing....

[countingbluecars]

252. I think you are correct.

Sick IMO.

[mcscajun]

244. I've been shocked, yes. I wonder if the full moon isn't involved.

You don't like somebody, fine. You don't mourn their death, fine. Don't disrupt those who did like that person, and have some consideration. A vibrant activist for wildlife is gone, leaving a young family behind.

Save the venom for our enemies, BushCo and Bush Republicans.
These threads will pass, yes we CAN pay attention to the more important things, too, and there's always the little 'x' box to ignore the threads that are making you crazy.

[marions ghost]

246. I'd rather wrestle a croc

than tangle with some of the mean old skunks that show up on DU from time to time. (Apologies to skunks)

The fact that Irwin touched people's hearts is evident. Look at all this reaction.

:cry: Bye Crocodile Hunter...may your efforts on behalf of animals not be forgotten

[glitch]

250. Deep resentment of the fearful for the fearless? nt

[Qanisqineq]

253. The news of his death shocked and saddened me

I can't understand why those that dislike Steve Irwin feel the need to announce it in threads meant for expressing sadness at his passing. Let those that want to mourn his death do so without you thrusting your crap upon us. ("you" as in those that hate Steve Irwin) I hate when people feel the need to be heard on absolutely everything. If someone died that I disliked but many others dearly loved, I'd just keep my mouth shut. I'm really not that important that I need to add more hurt to their loss. If the guy praised Bush, big deal. Does that mean he deserved to live any less than you or me? He did so much good that his conservative views (if true, I don't know) mean very little in the big scheme of things.

[zreosumgame]

255. I see it as the 'South Park' influence

of really un-thought out (even though at times very funny :) ) non-rational responces to life. A mean-spirited way of looking at things.

[OzarkDem]

260. You make a good point

Though I haven't watched the show and have discouraged my kids from watching it, I do see that influence on younger people today. They think its ok to be not just rude and thoughtless, but cruel and disgusting. Surely that's something they'll grow out of, I hope.

[qanda]

261. I alerted on at least one person

And as far as I know, their comments are still there. Since those comments are allowed to stay then I guess that's what is tolerated as fair discussion on DU.

[OzarkDem]

262. and that's a pretty sad commentary on DU

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

267. Yes, I find it sad when relatively innocuous posts are deleted

and yet obvious trolling is not.

[savemefromdumbya]

264. Poor guy

sad for his family and also for the thousands of children who love his programs

[mmonk]

265. Wow

I've been gone a few days and haven't been on here. That's just not right. The first thing I thought about were his kids. Can't believe anyone would feel anything except sadness.

[ms liberty]

271. I might have been once upon a time, but not anymore...

I've seen several situations in the last few months where people intentionally stepped in with threads which could only have been written to create divisiveness and argument. I've become increasingly concerned about this problem.

[Dorian Gray]

276. I don't get it either...

Makes absolutely no sense.

[Lisa0825]

277. Yes, however, it's a small minority.

Most people here I have known and respected have responded in ways I would expect. Only a few have shocked me with their lack of compassion. So, if I look beyond those few, I can still feel good about how many good, kind people we have here, who care about Steve Irwin, his widow, his children, and the animals of this planet that he worked so hard for.

[PinkyisBlue]

279. People get inflamed about PETA, too.

Whenever a thread about PETA comes up, people go crazy with their hatred for this organization. It must have something to do with both PETA and Steve Irwin's being on the side of preserving and protecting animals (and doing it in controversial ways, perhaps).

I, for one, am very saddened about Irwin's death; I feel the world will be a less friendly place for all creatures without his enthusiastic support and committment to conservation.

Shame on the person who said Terri will sell the video of his death for money; it'll never happen.

[Lisa0825]

281. Please don't bring PETA into this....

one can be a huge conservationist and still be anti-PETA. I'd prefer not to get into a PETA debate since this not the time or place.

[PinkyisBlue]

286. See, you just supported my point. You don't have to respond to this post.

I do still have the right to speak my mind, and I see some similarities in the way Steve Irwin promoted his love of conservation/critters and the way PETA promotes its agenda. Both have used attention-grabbing methods to make their points and, in the process, may have turned people off (not me).

But as I stated before, it is a great loss to the world not to have Steve Irwin in it. I, for one, felt better knowing he was here. My family and I enjoyed his work immensely and will miss him. We wish all the best to Terri, Bindi and little Bob.

[farmboxer]

283. I don't understand how anyone could hate Steve Irwin

Steve was very pro-environment, loved our planet's creatures, loved our planet. I will miss him very much. He taught a lot of people to love our planet and it's creatures, to understand them. He was a great human being.

[bananarepublican]

285. Anyone who made such a comment... FU! n/t

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

287. blown beyond all proportions on all sides claiming a soapbox

IMO
DU is full of more and more of this kind of back and forth about entertainers lately

[NMMNG]

289. I am in awe myself

I wouldn't celebrate the death of anybody in the W regime (though I certainly wouldn't mourn any of them) but at least I could understand if people on DU were throwing parties over one of them dying.

But Steve Irwin? :wtf: did he ever do to deserve such a reaction?

[dogday]

290. Apparently, though news to me, he was molesting

the animals he taught us about.... I am just repeating mind you, I don't believe the ca-ca some people come up with...

[ScreamingMeemie]

293. More than.

I just thanked myself for not DUing yesterday.

I had no idea it would look like this when I got here. Everyone is worthy of barbs I guess. :(

[Moderator]

297. Locking.....

This has become inflammatory.