How the HELL could ANY DUer Hate Steve Irwin

[never_get_over_it]

It has been quite a day with all the Steve Irwin posts - and I as many have been pretty shocked by all the nasty comments. I knew very little about him - mostly thought he was kind of goofy and was not surprised by his death - because of his risky behavior. I knew he was married and had two kids - I had heard about the baby and the open mouthed crock incident - but that is about all I knew

Because of all the posts today I stopped on the Animal Planet when I was channel surfing because there was a show on about him. What I learned is that he met his wife at one of his demonstrations - apparently it was love at first sight for both of them - she shared his passion - he was a devoted father and a devoted conservationist.

But the one portion of that show I WILL NEVER FORGET is the footage of a whale beaching - where Steve went to comfort the whales as they died because nothing could be done for them - apparently a couple of whales had been beached and the whales cried out for help which brought their entire pod into help them - they then got beached - and Steve said they had to stay with them to make their passing as comfortable as possible - which brought me to freaking tears

He stated his job, his passion the reason he was put on this planet was to save wildlife - that if could bring people up close to wildlife - to touch them - that they would want to save wildlife.

When I woke up this morning I knew very little about Steve Irwin (actually I didn't even know his name) and as I go to bed this evening I have an enormous respect for him and a DEEP sadness that he has passed

So all I can say is that any DUer that hates Steve Irwin or is making nasty comments about him is ignorant of his life or just plain freaking heartless.

[proud2BlibKansan]

He was a rabid right winger

nuff said

[seabeyond]

5. that is callous. that is not nuff said. that is too little. that is sad

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. He dogged John Kerry

and strongly supported bush. I am sorry he is dead but he was no hero in my book.

[OzarkDem]

18. Sorry, but you'll need to prove it

can you offer a link?

[seabeyond]

26. i dont really care if

he is a hero or not. i dont know that i have ever had a "hero" in life. goes against a strong part of who i am. but i also know being decent in no way allows me to trash fellow man in pain and sorrow, loss or the lost.... death. i see nothing of value in that. further it only slights myself, it does nothing to the already dead. just says who i am as a person.

i dont think our world can much afford this callousness and ugliness anymore. it is so rampant. so easy for us today.

i dont appreciate or condone it.

my children read the irwin threads on this board. and though i could say much in listening to them try to understand some of the comments, it did allow them to focus on how they wanted to experience a persons death. and proudly i say, they chose love and respect and appreciate for what a person gave in their life,..... not dissing fellow man. and recongizing the many on the board that were kind, yet still the sadness at those that did not have hte kindness within themselves.

always a lesson

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. I have not trashed him

I just explained I understand why some here do.

[seabeyond]

46. ah, i see. thank you proud n/t

[tyedyeto]

59. BS.

you said... He was a rabid right winger nuff said

He was a conservationist who cared about about the earth and it's environment. The Australian gov't told how he was an environmentalist re: endangered species et al.

How does that make him a 'rabid right winger'?

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Read the rest of this thread

"In front of us right now is the greatest leader Australia has ever had and the greatest leader in the world," Mr Irwin told the pro-Howard audience at Australia Zoo, north of Brisbane.

He said it was the first time he had been given the opportunity to say how much he dearly loved the prime minister.

http://timblair.spleenville.com/archives/004371.php

[tyedyeto]

63. So, he did NOTHING to further the environmentalists cause?

Not one of his shows ever showed the world that environmentalism is passe?

Are you teaching native environment since you are a public school teacher? Are you advocating that all flora and fauna in your area should be accepted today since it's accepted that it was introduced years ago? Let's make all regions of the world accept the fact that because something was introduced 50-100 years ago (or longer) it's indigenous to the area.

[proud2BlibKansan]

86. Your comment makes no sense

He was a right winger. I don't like right wingers because I happen to think they are destroying our country. They are doing a number on Australia too. So when one of their heroes dies, I won't be sending a card.

I have not made one comment about his environmentalism. But I wonder what he thought of the phrases "Clear Skies Initiative" or "Healthy Forests" that our right wingers coined. Do you suppose he too denied global warming?

[LostinVA]

107. He was an Australian, not an American

Good grief -- lots of totally wrong info in many of your posts... including the Kerry falsehood.

Weird.

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. So why was he commenting on OUR election?

I remember wondering at the time why in the world he cared who our president was. He was an Australian TV star and he thought his opinion about our presidential race was that important?

Now I am watching an Australian on TV saying his death is as devastating as Princess Diana's. :wtf:

[fishwax]

129. why do you keep claiming that he was commenting on our election

when you haven't offered any support for your claims. :shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

132. I heard him on TV

calling Kerry a traitor. He was also a big John Howard fan.

[fishwax]

147. since it's apparently impossible to provide any link supporting your claim

i can't help but think you misunderstood what you heard.

[proud2BlibKansan]

155. Well unless there is a transcript online

you will just have to take my word for it. I know what I heard. I also remember when. It was right after the RNC in September of 2004, during the height of the swift boat crap.

[uppityperson]

158. WRONG Kerry. There are many "Kerry"s in the world.

Aussie Agricultural official's name was Kerry, that was the Kerry he spoke against. http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s982212.htm

Steve Irwin defends quarantine ad
PM - Tuesday, 4 November , 2003 18:42:00
Reporter: Louise Willis

MARK COLVIN: The 'crocodile-hunter', Steve Irwin, has declared himself good value for money, after revelations that he got $175,000 worth of taxpayers' money to appear in a television advertisement. The Federal Government paid Irwin for one day's filming for the quarantine commercials.
The Labor Party's Agriculture Spokesman Kerry O'Brien is now asking whether the deal prompted Steve Irwin's recent declaration that John Howard was the greatest leader Australia had ever had.
But Steve Irwin denies he's in the Government's pocket, and points out that he used his fee to help protect endangered animals.
The khaki-clad adventurer spoke to Louise Willis in Brisbane.

<snip>
LOUISE WILLIS: Is there a link between you doing these ads and the fact that you've been praising John Howard recently?

STEVE IRWIN: No. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard – absolutely no link. That's like asking if an eagle can mate with a budgerigar.

I think what's happened… here's what's happened – I love John Howard, and that's the way I am. So everyone thinks I'm, like, this die-hard Liberal supporter. I'm not! I'm not. I'm sitting on the fence, mate, I'm a conservationist. I can't afford to be one way or the other. I just have to run straight up the middle, mate. I have to get on with whoever's in power.

And to tell you the truth, the best speech that popped up in Parliament House when George Bush was here was Simon Crean. Here's a bloke who actually disagreed with Iraq, okay, so he put forward the most eloquent speech, which really boosted his profile in my eyes. By crikey, I thought, Simon did the best one there, which is fantastic. So I appreciate good work when I see it, and that's all it is.

But what's behind this – the motivating factor is the Labor guys like Kerry unfortunately they think that I'm some staunch Liberal supporter and there's some deals going on, well, there isn't. I mean, he's missed the mark.
<snip>
STEVE IRWIN: I was invited to the George Bush barbecue just like John Eales and Lleyton Hewitt because I'm an Australian who's out there, who's achieving conservation, probably greater than any other Australian currently. And George Bush loved Croc Hunter, you know? He said, wow, it's really good to meet you, you're a great conservationist, keep up the good work, and stuff.
<snip>

[Dorian Gray]

68. Did he and his wife even live in the USA?

I thought that they lived in Australia. Sure, she's American, but who cares who he supported politically if he spent most of his time in Australia. Granted, I know little about the man, so I may be naive. But, the man died horribly and sadly, and I feel terrible for his family.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

70. They lived in Australia.

One of his foundations had land in the US (and other countries), but that was merely to protect the land for wildlife.

[LittleClarkie]

92. He couldn't vote for him

Where did he dog Kerry? How much influence could he have had. I never went to him for political advice, personally.

[LostinVA]

106. No, he didn't -- he dogged the Aussie Agricultural official

Whose name is also KERRY. Geez.

Rabid RWers do NOT act as conservationists and environmental advocates... and are NOT against sustainable use.

Good gods.

[berni_mccoy]

6. ? You'll have to explain that one...?

[Zensea]

7. Just goes to show there's more to life than politics

and to a person.
I bet there's plenty of people whose politics I agree with who haven't accomplished much in the world to amount to anything.
There's more than one equation for a person's worth.

[WindRavenX]

8. ?

Never heard that one...

[jonnyblitz]

19. people have posted quotes from him where he dissed Kerry

and supported Bush and John Howard of Australia. that could be it. :shrug: I am neutral on the guy (don't watch tv and when I do it's not animal planet) just kind of stunned at the intensity of the hysteria. :hi: I am sorry to see you so sad.

[SoCalDem]

64. He was a public person and would have felt the need to seek

support from whomever was in power.. that just happened to be Howard..

I too have read the invectives in some of these threads..

So what if he did not like Kerry? he was not a US citizen and as a "guy on animal planet" who just happens to enjoy wildlife and their causes, who gives a rat's ass what he thought of our candidates..

I never saw him on Hardball, trashing anyone...or writing op-eds..

he was a devoted husband, a kooky, funloving guy and someone who loved life.,. and he did make people aware of wildlife and their troubles,

People can be many things at once...

whether he liked Kerry or not, is meaningless..

he was a good guy and he never got to say goodbye to his wife & little kids..and it sucks that he died in such a crazy accident..

[jonnyblitz]

67. I was just pointing out, I could care less about the guy

one way or the other. I don't celebrity worship. :shrug:

[SoCalDem]

75. I did not "worship" him.. It just always sucks when someone

so young, with so much ahead of them, dies....especially when they are doing something good ..

[LostinVA]

108. Jonny -- he didn't dog JOHN KERRY

He was talking about an Aussie Ag official also named Kerry.

[Fox Mulder]

125. He wasn't talking about John Kerry:

See here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5589481&mesg_id=5594202

[LostinVA]

109. Because it's not true n/t

[varkam]

11. Regrettably, there are few issues that tend to be...

so important that they should and do cross party lines. Wildlife conservation is one of them - or at the least, should be. Mr. Irwin's passing saddens me despite the fact that he was beholden to right-wing ideology. His passing saddens me, and should sadden everyone, because we have lost someone who was deeply committed to wildlife conservation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. The OP said how can any DUer hate him

and I believe I answered that question.

I didn't hate him. I just thought little of him because of things he said about Kerry in 2004. I also don't diminish his work on conservation issues. But truth is he was a rabid right winger.

[OzarkDem]

27. Link?

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Looking

His remarks slamming Kerry were posted here in 2004. I remember because I was surprised that an Australian would criticize a candidate in the USA.

[Marie26]

105. I found it for you.

Please see post #89.

[Texasgal]

58. Who gives a shit?

he wasn't even a US citizen!

JAYSUS CHRIST!

[fishwax]

62. he was a rabid right winger?

the closest thing i can find to evidence about that is that he effusively praised john howard when howard showed up at his zoo. That kind of over-the-top rhetoric strikes me as more indicative of irwin's personality than a genuine political ideology, let alone being a rabid right winger. In one of the same articles which offers that quote, his friend is quoted as saying irwin wasn't an outspoken supporter of either party, but that those comments just reflected his excitable nature. But maybe you have some further evidence of his rabid right wing views?

[Duppers]

78. you were asked for links in the 'Steve Irwin quotes' thread too

It seems that you were the only one bashing him in that thread too.

Still no links from you.

Steve Irwin will be sadly missed at my home. I consider him to have been a good,loving human being.

[proud2BlibKansan]

89. I am not the only one who has posted links to quotes

proving he was a rw hero. I can't help it if you can't read.

[LostinVA]

111. Irwin wasn't a "RW hero" -- that would be,m say, Reagan

He was a hero to animal advocates and conservationists everywhere.

[fishwax]

120. you haven't posted any links proving he's a right wing hero

you posted one link with him praising howard in his typical over the top style, and on the basis of that you claimed repeatedly that he was a rabid right-winger.

And then there's the claim that he bashed john kerry, which is untrue.

[panzerfaust]

95. Gee, I thought, and think, that Kerry was little different than Bush

Both are rich, east-coast, silver-spoons, born to the Ruling Class. Both own, and are owned by, multinational corporations.

BUT...

At least Kerry put his ass on the line in RVN, unlike *

AND

Kerry (and the democrats) would have continued the illusion of democracy, which I would have preferred to the ungloved in-your-face fascism we are now slipping into.

PLUS

I really do NOT CARE what Irwin's political beliefs may, or may not, have been.

Irwin was a strong force in the preservation of the wilds and of wildlife.

There is no replacing him.

The world is poorer for his passing.

Life is Larger than Politics

[Marie26]

98. He was talking about Australian Sec. Kerry O'Brien

Not that the truth much matters.

The interview you are talking about occured in 2003, and here is the relevant section:

"The (Australian) Federal Government paid Irwin for one day's filming for the quarantine commercials. The Labor Party's Agriculture Spokesman Kerry O'Brien is now asking whether the deal prompted Steve Irwin's recent declaration that John Howard was the greatest leader Australia had ever had.

But Steve Irwin denies he's in the Government's pocket, and points out that he used his fee to help protect endangered animals. The khaki-clad adventurer spoke to Louise Willis in Brisbane.

STEVE IRWIN: Yeah, I wasn't actually paid one cent, mate. I was really impressed with AQIS donating $175,000 to our wildlife fund, and we put that straight into a koala hospital. Right here in our region in south-east Queensland, we have one of the greatest populations of koalas that are dwindling. They're getting hit by cars, chewed by dogs… that's where that money's gone.

LOUISE WILLIS: Is there a link between you doing these ads and the fact that you've been praising John Howard recently?

STEVE IRWIN: No. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard – absolutely no link. That's like asking if an eagle can mate with a budgerigar.

I think what's happened… here's what's happened – I love John Howard, and that's the way I am. So everyone thinks I'm, like, this die-hard Liberal supporter. I'm not! I'm not. I'm sitting on the fence, mate, I'm a conservationist. I can't afford to be one way or the other. I just have to run straight up the middle, mate. I have to get on with whoever's in power.

And to tell you the truth, the best speech that popped up in Parliament House when George Bush was here was Simon Crean. Here's a bloke who actually disagreed with Iraq, okay, so he put forward the most eloquent speech, which really boosted his profile in my eyes. By crikey, I thought, Simon did the best one there, which is fantastic. So I appreciate good work when I see it, and that's all it is.

But what's behind this – the motivating factor is the Labor guys like Kerry unfortunately they think that I'm some staunch Liberal supporter and there's some deals going on, well, there isn't. I mean, he's missed the mark."

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s982212.htm

This interview was then twisted & misquoted on DU as a diss of John Kerry, sending Kerry supporters into fits. And apparantly inspiring some people to still post vitriolic rants against Irwin three years later. It would be odd for an Australian to express an opinion on the American election, & Irwin wasn't doing that. Instead, he was referring to an Australian Labor party politician named Kerry O'Brien. So can you stop slamming him now?

[LostinVA]

110. He did NOT say that about Kerry, and he was NOT a rabid RWer

Good grief. I'm a member od the DSA, I'm not exactly a "rabid RWer" apologoists... but I also don't like seeing being accused of stuff they didn't do/say.

[roguevalley]

99. the world lost an animal advocate of great influence and passion.,

I didn't like Kerry either though I voted for him. Does that make me a redneck too? The invective is too bad. You judge people by what they do, not what they say. If that was reversed, Bush would be a great man because he can spew platitudes but he doesn't do anything good. I really am sad over Irwin. So must the world of animals and plants also.

[PresidentWar]

25. On that note, I did find this little tidbit....

Irwin's Rabid Support of Far Right John Howard

"In front of us right now is the greatest leader Australia has ever had and the greatest leader in the world," Mr Irwin told the pro-Howard audience at Australia Zoo, north of Brisbane.

He said it was the first time he had been given the opportunity to say how much he dearly loved the prime minister.

http://timblair.spleenville.com/archives/004371.php

[Critters2]

38. That honestly sounds like someone who was just misinformed

and awed at being with a national leader. It's too over-the-top. And sounds like that Croc Hunter's hyperbole. I'll not condemn him for this.

[PresidentWar]

40. Would you be so forgiving if he said it about Bush?

I wager not.

[seabeyond]

45. one little piece of a persons life is not indicative of the whole

it is the small person that cannot look beyond. that cannot feel love and compassion in the sorrows of others.

i wager i could

[PresidentWar]

49. Unusually forgiving on that subject for DU.

Is this perhaps due to the "closing of the Irwin ranks" on this forum? Believe me I know how much ego can creep up on you when it comes to stuff like this.

[seabeyond]

54. i am pretty consistant regardless of the death.

but again if your choice is to find the lowest of motive that is how you will preceive much of life. it isnt the way i walk or honor life.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Critters2]

47. I'm not real good at playing "what if"

He didn't say it about Bush, so I have no idea how I'd react if he did. He probably knows more about Howard than I do, so I'll allow him to assess the elected leader of his own nation, thank you very much.

[PresidentWar]

50. Howard is a fascist little power lackey.

Are you telling me that you need not see all that is available on this creep and let good ol Steve Irwin speak for you on the matter?

Excuse me, but that hound don't hunt.

[Critters2]

52. I find the word "fascist" way too easy to toss around these days. nt

[PresidentWar]

53. It fits Howard.

Beligerent use of military power to solve all ills, thats one major descriptor of the fascist.

[roguevalley]

100. so what. so, he liked Howard. Where in his ACTIONS did he

show allegiance to redneck values and actions?

[LostinVA]

112. Bingo

[Gman]

48. The first 100 results of this Google search returned nothing

that substantiates what you say.

http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hs=SIQ&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22steve+irwin%22+and+%22john+kerry%22&btnG=Search

[LostinVA]

113. Because there IS nothing to substantiate any of it

What a bizarre post... (not yours!)

He didn't diss John Kerry, he wasn't a "rabid RWer," nor is he a "RW hero." I think most RWers probably hated his guts to death.

[gully]

66. Sheesh are we no better than they are?

This post sounds Coulteresque.

Goodness, two kids lost their father today. He was a conservationist and an amazing entertainer regardless what people think of his politics. I don't consider "pro-environment" rabid right wing?

Man alive.

[never_get_over_it]

76. Ok I have done a lot of searching on google

and I can not find any indication that Steve Irwin was a rabid right winger - I did however find this which given his conservation goals makes perfect sense to me....

http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s982212.htm

" LOUISE WILLIS: Is there a link between you doing these ads and the fact that you've been praising John Howard recently?

STEVE IRWIN: No. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard – absolutely no link. That's like asking if an eagle can mate with a budgerigar.

I think what's happened… here's what's happened – I love John Howard, and that's the way I am. So everyone thinks I'm, like, this die-hard Liberal supporter. I'm not! I'm not. I'm sitting on the fence, mate, I'm a conservationist. I can't afford to be one way or the other. I just have to run straight up the middle, mate. I have to get on with whoever's in power.

And to tell you the truth, the best speech that popped up in Parliament House when George Bush was here was Simon Crean. Here's a bloke who actually disagreed with Iraq, okay, so he put forward the most eloquent speech, which really boosted his profile in my eyes. By crikey, I thought, Simon did the best one there, which is fantastic. So I appreciate good work when I see it, and that's all it is. "

[LostinVA]

What??? No he wasn't.

He was conservative.

[LSK]

104. its the next day, got any links yet??

:shrug:

Edit: Try this one: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=5589481&mesg_id=5594202

[fishwax]

130. no links yet, though the poster still keeps making the claim

about irwin attacking kerry or meddling in our elections :eyes:

[Random_Australian]

124. No, he wasn't. Most of the time he did not really care about politics,

though he DID like John Howard (Our prime minister, one who is far right in world standards, but not yours, aka. nothing like a fundy).

He spent most of his life helping the animals, and working at the zoo.

Here is Aus he is not so much a TV figure as someone well respected for his work in the wild, and helping, and raising awareness.

He's not in America. We don't have the kind of politicians like you! We don't have the split - I know and respect many who support Howard here.

Rabid right winger indeed - you make him sound like he was going say that evolution was wrong.

Weirdo.

[never_get_over_it]

146. It is quite obvious

that there is absolutely NO PROOF of your statement that Steve Irwin was a rabid right winger - and it appears to me that you have made a mistake. These statements you claim of him trashing Kerry - were not about John Kerry but Kerry O'Brien an Australian politician...you have provide no proof and now said you heard him on TV - he did say he liked John Howard but that does not support your claim either. I have spent time on google and can not find anything to support your claim and find evidence that the man was probably not political and only involved himself when it would help his conservation goals.

I'm the type of person who really doesn't have that big of a problem admitting I made a mistake - it is actually very liberating - you don't have to spend a lot of time making excuses - we all make mistakes and I really think it is time that you admit you made a mistake calling Steve Irwin a rabid right winger - I think it might actually make you feel better - let it go he wasn't period - and then I suggest you watch some of his programs - he seems to have been a really sincere caring guy.

[brentspeak]

162. Hey, where'd you run off to?

You did such a great job at disrupting the board. How much did you get paid for that?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. oops double post

[citizen snips]

2. hate is a strong word.

[tuvor]

3. Simple answer: There are nearly a hundred thousand of us.

Some say, "it takes all kinds." Hell, I say we just GOT all kinds.

[salvorhardin]

4. That's a lovely post

Thanks. I've been distressed at the anger and hate too.

[PresidentWar]

9. A solid majority of DUers have posted positive things about him.

Don't you think the woe card has been WAAAAY overplayed here?

[never_get_over_it]

16. Oh I know there have been many beautiful post on him

but when I saw that thing on the whales I just couldn't understand how ANYONE could have said nasty things about him - I'm really pretty stunned by it - but I was pretty stunned by some of the nasty remarks made about Mike Malloy last week - I don't know why things still surprise me - after the last five and a half years I would think that nothing should surprise me anymore - oh well

[PresidentWar]

37. Hey, I hear ya. But my gripe was these people making a mountain...

out of a molehile. It sorta pisses me off because it mischaracterizes the whole picture. For instance - one of the silly threads on this subject uses this hyperbole to paint all of DU with a penumbra of hatred and incivility. And that's just bullshit. The users here are in fact some of the most enlightened, sensitive and emotionally advanced people on the planet and its an enormous INSULT to them all to capitalize on a few nasty comments in order to produce a fantasy monster of hate out of it.

That's a tragedy much greater than one man's death, in my not so humble opinion.

[seabeyond]

10. it has been an experience for me listening to my 8 year old go thru

this today. all the beauty and love and compassion and wisdom he has shared with me, holding on to this mans death. tonight after having gone thru a lot of what happen to irwin, my son said, it is a pretty big deal for a kid my age to experience the death of someone i looked up to so much for so long.

to talk about all they learned from the man, the compassion for the animals and teaching that to kids, the way he was with his daughter and teaching them about animals and love of animals

my youngest is pretty amazed by the man, and heartfelt in the loss. i think i will honor that with him, in appreciating and valuing what irwin gave to him.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

28. We didn't tell our four year old grandson because he

idolizes Irwin. We had the sound off on the tv and when they showed Irwin's picture he shouted, "Hey, look, there's my friend the crocodile guy." He will probably hear it from his pals at preschool tomorrow and then we may have to face the talk, his first, about life and death. But for today his innocence remains.

[seabeyond]

36. ya. i hear ya. i didnt share 9/11 with oldest when he was 6

the next day i got him back from school and wooooooo, what he had picked up. then we started talking. my kids are pretty sheltered too. but seeing how they are 11 and 8 i told them this morning. i knew they would hear. they are on the net on kids boards. and they did hear. much older than 4, it is going to be a sad day for your little one. a huge hug to him. yes, irwins enthusiasm had hold of the kids.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

43. Thank you, Sea. Very kind post

and I will share it with his mom. :hug:

[rooboy]

13. Steve Irwin was completely ignorant politically, and he admitted it. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

32. nail on head

Genuine ignorance is forgivable, particularly under these tragic circumstances.

Steve was a valuable animal advocate and leaves behind a young family. That is a genuine tragedy on both counts.

RIP.

[brokensymmetry]

14. Thank you for a great post. K&R

It's good to see the kind of sentiments that
I associate with Progressives and Liberals - to
see the caring and thoughtfulness that make DU
a haven.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. I am sad about his death

but more about the attitude of some here at DU. Same thing with the Malloy threads which showed a very strong division, very ugly side of many people here.

I know this might sound disgusting to some but for the first time today I think that we deserved that ** won the election. I see lots of people talking about how bad we have it with the Republicans but with the bad attitude of some of the Democrats here I believe that it will be no different with the Freepers or Dems.

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

34. perspective?

Malloy and Irwin are/were entertainers first and foremost.
It's disgusting for me to think that anyone deserves * and the neo-cons.

[Lost-in-FL]

35. Many sure are behaving like heartless freepers

just saying

[ForrestGump]

69. Some of them probably aren't

behaving like Freepers, if you know what I mean.

[LostinVA]

115. Oh yeah

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

90. Hate to say it, but I'm starting to agree with you.

The prevailing attitude here lately has been a bloodlust for political purity. This is not any better than the fascism we've been living under during these Bush years.

[DRoseDARs]

17. Well carrying his infant son into a croc pit with him would be a start...

Don't know anything about his politics, nor care, but that little stunt was absolutely boneheaded and frankly unforgivable.

[OzarkDem]

22. Check your facts

He was investigated and found to have not done any harm. I'm surprised at Dems making such knee jerk reactions and baseless accusations. That's something right wingers usually do. I'm not saying you are one, but we should think of holding ourselves to a higher standard.

[seabeyond]

33. being an overprotective mother, i say bullshit.

i wouldn't have done with my children but then i am overprotective as hell to their determent. that baby was not in danger. it was clear. and if the baby was not in danger, then all the supposition is a waste of time and misdirected. it was truly stupid some of the comments made to irwin after that event. and they sounded about like yours right now. uninformed, or purposely ignorant.

[DRoseDARs]

65. Tell me again that this is what a responsible parent does...

...that "it was clear ... the baby was not in danger."



And while we're at it, who wants to be first to hold a double standard whenever they see this one:





You both act like a crocodile is some well-trained performing monkey whose behaviour is always predictable and reliable and that investigations NEVER find in favor of highly popular, highly visible suspects. Talk about uninformed and ignorant.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[renate]

77. that was utterly,200% stupid,but it doesn't make it okay that the guy DIED

sheesh.

[DRoseDARs]

80. Didnt say it was ok; hell, dont really care. He died the way he lived...

Poorly.

It's a shame that his wife and children are left in his wake, but what's more tragic: Some guy who harasses wild animals and predictably gets killed by one or the on-going slaughter in Darfur that the world doesn't seem to give much of a shit about lately because it's too busy giving a shit about some "entertainer" submitting his bid for the Darwin Award?

[LostinVA]

117. How did he die poorly?

Maybe understand the facts of his death and the facts about rays before you make grandiose pronouncements about someone's life and death... and, he lived wonderfully. Again, see what the man did for YOUR country... the land he bought, the animal education and PR he did for FREE.

He wasn't an entertainer, he was a conservationist. The entertainer bit was his side business.

Man, the bile and ignorance in these posts -- and the falsehoods. Jesus.

[DRoseDARs]

137. He harassed wild animals and made a TV spectacle of it...

...and as such lived poorly. Dying as a result of doing just that is an example of dying poorly. He's like that guy that messed around with bears in the wild... and got killed by one. I'm not suprised Irwin's many mental felators completely miss how poetic his death was. It's like Bush going to Baghdad again for one of his little PR stunts to say how wonderful things are going... and having the event hit by errant fire from US troops fighting the insurgency that continues outside the Green Zone. The "gentle" stingray my ass, the fact is they generally don't attack Humans unless they're being... wait for it... harassed. I don't care about all the swell things he's done; they're irrelevent. You may not have seen the tent, but he still treated many animals as if they were circus performers. I have always been ambivalent towards Irwin. I have little patience or interest in people who go into the wild with cameras for the sole purpose of not filming animals, but getting up close and personal with them for ratings. Seeing all the circlejerk threads of adoration for him created a momentary blip on my Give-A-Shit meter and I had to respond.

[ForrestGump]

148. Fine

But you are absolutely wrong.

He's nothing like the fruitcake who messed around with bears. And he did an awful lot of good -- he was the younger generation's Jacques Cousteau.

I've argued the rest elsewhere here 'til I'm just plain sick of responding to ignorant, hateful people, so I won't burden you with any particular evidence for how wrong you are just to say that, on your Spouting-Shit meter, you're max'ed out.

[ScreamingMeemie]

150. Thank you Forrest...

:hug:

I don't know if you saw it yesterday, but I posted about how much my son will miss this man. He taught my son to respect all creatures...not to molest them. To respect their homes, not take them away. He taught my son to care... The world has lost one of its greatest conservationists, and many here are too stupid to realize it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2050810

[uppityperson]

161. exactly. Any animal will strike if harassed long enough.

That is my problem with his antics.

RIP Steve, my condolences to your family.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

114. Forced perspective.

The baby isn't anywhere near the crocidile's mouth or striking range.

So yeah, I call bullshit.

The baby in the second picture isn't in much danger either, except for possibly molestation. If I had a dollar for every time I seen a father tossing a baby up in the air or dangling him over the grand canyon or some damn thing I'd have a lot of money.

[DRoseDARs]

138. Croc grabs daddys leg & begins deathroll, daddy falls into water w/baby...

...daddy and baby drown or are approached by other crocodiles. It wouldn't have taken much for that little performance to have gone horribly wrong and a very different series of photographs taken. People such as yourself really need to be "forced" to see certain perspectives.

And dangling someone over a balcony in full view of witnesses, even authorities, generally prompts investigation. Given this is Micheal Jackson, you already know it's going to be a total fuxored circus anyway, so don't hold your breath for any meaningful punishment. Tossing a baby in the air a few inches isn't exactly like holding one over a several hundred foot drop. Apples and a steaming pile of shit comparison you've got going there.

[BushOut06]

157. Nice try, wanna do some research first?

How about doing that, instead of basing your entire statement on what you see in some picture, without any perspective whatsoever?

Those crocs had already been well fed, and they had been out most of the day in the hot sun. When Steve Irwin went in there, they were quite full and tired. I'd say that Mr. Irwin knows a helluva lot more about crocs than you ever will. Not only that, but there were plenty of wranglers on hand nearby just in case anything did go wrong.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. Mmm.

That's like getting upset over David Blaine sawing a woman in half without any anasthesia.

[LostinVA]

116. The Aussie version of DSS disagreed with you

And, having been raised around farm kids and fishermen kids... what Steve-O did with Bob was small potatoes.

[Snivi Yllom]

21. maybe not hated for his environmentalism, but for Irwin's politics

just a guess, but for some, there is no room to accept a conservative environmentalist

personally I loved that guy, and he will be missed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Irwin

Irwin was an open supporter of the conservative Liberal Party of Australia. In particular, he strongly supported the incumbent Prime Minister John Howard, describing him once as "the greatest leader Australia has ever had" and the "greatest leader in the entire world"; comments which drew a cynical reaction in the national media.<5>

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/08/1068243301741.html
Crikey! Praise for PM puts you in a snake pit

Steve Irwin is everyone's favourite Aussie crocodile hunter. And while he was never feted in his homeland like he is in the US, he was widely regarded with benign condescension. That is until last month, when he made the deadly error of alienating Australia's cultural establishment.

When Prime Minister John Howard dropped in on Irwin's Australia Zoo on Queensland's Sunshine Coast, the naturally ebullient Irwin introduced him to the crowd as "the greatest leader Australia has ever had" and the "greatest leader in the entire world".

"I get to meet some extraordinary people and extraordinary leaders," Irwin said, "but meeting the Prime Minister is the proudest moment of my life."

Crikey! Irwin has wrestled crocodiles, snakes and spiders, but nothing could compare with the nest of vipers he had just strayed into.

Suddenly Irwin the likeable, outback ocker became Irwin the greedy "millionaire" Howard-lover. For some people, this was unforgivable.

[OzarkDem]

23. Is that all you have?

I'm not seeing anything there that justifies vilifying him.

[Snivi Yllom]

31. im not saying it justifies anything, only pointing out there are fools

The fools who are so blinded by single issues or partisanship, they have become petty and are incapable of seeing the good Steve Irwin accomplished.

[roguevalley]

102. he strikes me as a working class guy who was overcome with

contact with power. happens to a lot of people. frankly, from the tone of some people on this board, its a good thing he died, because we'd have to kill him for his apostacy. even if he wasn't an American. :sarcasm:

[never_get_over_it]

55. Well in some respects I can understand that

because I have a very hard time tolerating anyone who supports the freak in chief in my own life - as a matter of fact there are a few people at work that I like and don't even want to know their politics because it would disappoint me so much - however from what I'm seeing Irwin might just have been ignorant of what is really going on - I find it hard to believe that someone like Irwin would have anything but disdain for the hunting practices of Dick Cheney who hunts nearly caged animals

Even if he was a fan of the freak in chief - after seeing him with those whales - there is no way I could say anything nasty about him - I just have to assume he was sever ly politically misguided -

[Snivi Yllom]

83. I don't understand that

Politics cannot be personal or they eat you alive. There are many DUers who claim to have estranged family members due to politics. If they are so partisan about politics that they cant stand family members, imagine how they could feel about a total stranger.

I don't get it, and I could never be so cold blooded as many of the reptiles Steve Irwin loved.

[never_get_over_it]

84. Yes I can understand it to some extent

but don't think it is a good idea or the right thing to do - or in anyway justifies some of the comments made about Steve Irwin - but personally - it has just been SO bad the past five and a half years that it is an absolute struggle not to just completely separate myself from people who don't get how awful this administration is - and I struggle with it - which is why in many cases I don't even go near the political thing with people I like because the sheer disappointment I would experience when I find out they don't get the fact that everything the freak in chief's admin has done is really destroying this country.

That being said I still haven't found anything that remotely reflects that Steve Irwin was a rabid right winger...

[Buzz Clik]

24. You've got to understand the DU mentality.

There are a lot of brilliant people here at DU, but the herd mentality usually takes the day.

Trying to correct that bizarre behavior is a waste of time and could get you in trouble with the powers that be.

[OzarkDem]

29. The powers that be

its their job to enforce the rules including civil behavior.

[Buzz Clik]

82. Good call. I never said otherwise.

However, I have had a post deleted for the simple reason that "people come here to seek refuge from the day-to-day onslaught against them." It had nothing to do with my behavior or civility -- I simply challenged their notions.

[seabeyond]

42. i have never gone with the herd

and i have never had an issue with the powers that be. i am also respectful as i run alone. maybe that is a difference

[PresidentWar]

51. Niether have I. Often, to my hardship.

And I ESPECIALLY hate cults of personality,

[seabeyond]

56. "cults of personality"? hate? you also

seem to chose the very lowest of motive for a person too, per a post above to me. do you often see the very worst?

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

163. It's not herd mentality

It's a few wackos and several RW (pretending to be LW) disruptors. Mostly, it's the disruptors.

[earth mom]

30. Agree with you 100%!

Anyone who's watched a lot of Croc Hunter shows knows the strong level of commitment and care Steve brought to the animal world, as well as the deep love he had for his family.

My two favorite memories are watching the actual footage of the moment when he and Terry actually met. It is something that is not to be missed-it was love at first sight and just so incredibly touching. And watching him freak out with excitement on the way to the hospital when Bindi was going to be born was wonderful too. Steve was unique and special, a gem. Simple as that. :cry:

[Holly_Hobby]

39. Saw a repeat of him w/Larry King tonight

I don't get the hate, either. He was making a difference for wild life, and that's good enough for me.

He explained the dangling baby incident as "camera perspective". He said the camera angle made him look much closer to the croc than he really was, and the criticism devastated him.

Please read some of his quotes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2047948

[savemefromdumbya]

57. politics apart the guy was good

[ForrestGump]

61. Thanks for this thread

Even though it got hijacked and provided a platform for a disruptor to increase his needling and post count.

I'm glad you saw something of what the man was really about and what he tried to do, but sad that you feel his loss more than you perhaps would have a day ago. :hug:

[farmboxer]

72. I will miss Steve Irwin

I will be depressed for a very long time. He was not far from my house pulling timber rattlers out from under rocks a few years ago, incredible. He cared about the environment, animals, no right winger cares about our planet. Steve also mentioned how the frogs are dying from our pollution as a warning, etc.

He was an incredible person.

[bananarepublican]

79. THEY'LL GO STRAIGHT TO MY IGNORE LIST!!!! N/T

[Zodiak]

81. Let's say...for the sake of argument

That Steve Irwin supported right wingers at the polling place (I do not see evidence of this, but for the sake of argument, let's go there). That does not take away one bit of good he has done with his life. His death was a tragedy, regardless of politics. As far as the baby is concerned, that is a family matter, in my opinion. I personally do not care about these incidences as long as the baby went unharmed. A man is not defined by these little moments, but on the totality of his life.

Every "good riddance" post I have seen on DU has either been because of some petty little moment of Steve's life in which the poster disagrees politically or some ham-handed attempt by the poster to brag about one's own exploits in the wilderness at Irwin's expense. I find it absolutely disgusting that anyone would dance on the grave of this man over such petty points when the rest of his life he ostensibly fought for principles that are considered "good" by all of us.

If Dog the Bounty Hunter died tomorrow, I would feel the same, even though Dog has visited Bush and has a picture of Bush on his wall. That does not take away from the fact that Dog is a good man who tries to do good in this world. And know what? Dog has made some SERIOUS mistakes in his life. His death would be just as much of a loss as Irwin's, but will he be judged here solely by the Bush picture on his wall?

I would like to think that people are judged by the totality of their lives, not by the few moments where they said the wrong thing, supported the wrong person, or took an unnecessary risk. It is apparent that some feel otherwise.

[Xenotime]

85. Steve was heartless...

he would terroize and frighten animals. Then he would bring his own family into the mix as well.

[Mad_Dem_X]

88. You obviously never saw his shows or

saw him on talk shows. He respected the animals and did not fear them. His wife was the same.

[Xenotime]

126. I did see the show and the animals didn't seem to enjoy being wrestled...

and captured.

[LostinVA]

127. I never saw Steve Irwin "wrestle" an animal

Again, your post shows your ignorance of his work.

I'm no longer engaging.

[BushOut06]

159. What a dumb remark

What do you think happens when researchers tag and release animals? Do you have any idea what you're talking about? How many more species would be extinct if conservationists didn't occsasionally "wrestle and capture" animals?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

91. Do you have ANY idea what you're talking about?!

This is a guy that would be beside himself with grief, crying uncontrollably on camera if an animal died in his presence. No one - I repeat, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON - cared about and did more for animals than Steve Irwin.

[LostinVA]

118. *sigh* educate yourself about Steve Irwin, okay?

All you're doing is embarrassing yourself with these posts.

[Mad_Dem_X]

87. Thank you!

I couldn't care less what his politics were - he was a compassionate human being who cared about wildlife and tried to educate others to respect it. All these negative posts tell me more about the posters themselves than about Steve. May he rest in peace.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

93. Thank you.

DU has been getting rather depressing in its attitude these days. Something needs to be done in a hurry.

[treestar]

94. Oh come on, do you have to accuse people of "hating" him?

I didn't hate him and in fact enjoyed him, but don't really appreciate having to deal with the resulting tragedy of his Love and Passion for Life leading him to take risks that were too big. I feel sorry for his wife and kids. But he died doing what he wanted and did what he wanted and didn't take enough precaution, i.e., didn't care enough that he took risks that might leave his children fatherless. They get to pay the price for his wonderful Passion and Love of Life. Too bad he didn't love it enough to try to stay around, by being sensible, cutting back on things as he got into middle age and couldn't absorb as much risky behavior.

As to his politics, who cares? If he was an environmentalist his death will not stop other environmentalists who don't go around looking for trouble against nature. They're still here. They'll go on.

[never_get_over_it]

97. Well you're right hate probably was too strong a word

but after reading some of the comments and then seeing the special on him - I really just couldn't understand why anything negative was said about the guy only hours after his death - from what I saw he seemed very sincere and very committed to the conservation of wildlife and for that I respect him and think we have lost a good one....

[FlaGranny]

96. Agree 100%

The attitudes of some around here are sickening. I rarely post at all any more. Reading a lot less too. I'm beginning to not want to call myself a liberal any more. It's beginning to be a bad association for me. Whatever the hell is wrong with people?

After having said that, I really think some of these long-time DUers are really not, in any way, liberals. No liberal I have ever known has ever had an attitude like some express around here. Years ago I made a few visits to the freeper site. This is looking more and more like it and those people are NOT people I would ever want to associate with.

[LostinVA]

119. Do you REALLY think many of these people are

actually liberals? Being associated with liberals -- being one -- is a grand thing. Calling yourself one and posting on a public message board is an easy thing to do...

[cynatnite]

101. His legacy will always be about his love of the wildlife...

no one will ever be able to take that away. It was never about politics with that man...it was about doing the right thing.

[madmusic]

121. The man was pretty damn cool.

I never hated him at all. He found it niche and went for it, and died doing what he loved and cared about.

[KingFlorez]

122. Some people will find a reason hate everybody

[TheFriedPiper]

123. How the hell am I supposed to give a shit one way or another?

He was a character on TV. Not any of our's friend.

I don't hate him, but I do hate that this one guy's death is dominating GD.

[Andrushka]

154. Ditto that, mate!

I mean fer crying out loud people! eom

[Triana]

131. No idea. I don't hate him.

And I will not. I'd rather appreciate the good he did and his passion for his work and leave it at that. I'll miss him.

[zcflint09]

133. THANK YOU!! AND EVERYONE ELSE--SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR ONCE

FOR GOD SAKES--THIS "STEVE IRWIN LITTLE GIRL FLAME WAR" HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR TOO LONG--INDIVIDUALS ARE TRASHING HIM FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT HE MADE A STATEMENT REGARDING A PRIME MINISTER WHO IS CONSERVATIVE--GUESS WHAT GUYS--IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT POLITICS IN LIFE. THAT'S THE ISSUE WITH HALF OF THE PEOPLE POSTING HERE--IT'S NOT LIKE HE WENT ON RECORD AND BLASTED DEMOCRATS, JOHN KERRY (HE DIDN'T--HE WAS TALKING ABOUT AN AUSSIE OFFICIAL NAMED KERRY), ETC, ETC. HE MADE A STATEMENT SUPPORTING HOWARD BECAUSE HOWARD COULD ASSIST HIM IN GETTING MORE FUNDS FOR WILDLIFE PROTECTION.

STEVE IRWIN LOVED AND CARED FOR THE ANIMALS ON THIS PLANET AND EDUCATED MANY, INCLUDING MYSELF, ON WILDLIFE IN A CREATIVE AND CARING WAY. WAS HE MY FRIEND? NO, BUT I CAN TELL HE TRULY HAS A HEART OF GOLD BECAUSE HE SHARED HIS LOVE FOR ANIMALS WITH THIS PLANET--A TRUE FRIEND OF CONSERVATIONISTS EVERYWHERE. STEVE BOUGHT PLOTS OF LAND ALL OVER THE WORLD TO HELP PRESERVE WILDLIFE IN THOSE AREAS.

THE TRASHING IS PITIFUL--AND IT'S SILLY THAT EVEN IF HE WAS LEANING CONSERVATIVE THAT WE SUDDENLY SHOULDN'T GIVE A FLYING SHIT ABOUT WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR CONSERVATION--GET OVER YOURSELVES--LOOK PAST POLITICS FOR ONCE--AND BTW, IF YOU WANT TO START TALKING POLITICS, MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT--THE GUY NEVER TRASHED KERRY.

I UNDERSTAND THIS IS A POLITICAL FORUM--BUT THIS WAS A REAL MAN WHO CONTRIBUTED MUCH TO OUR SOCIETY--GIVE HIM RESPECT FOR THAT--AND HE NEVER CAUSED ANY DEMOCRATS ANY HARM WHATSOEVER, EVEN IF HE WAS A CONSERVATIVE. HE KEPT IT PRIVATE. TRY TO FIND ANY QUOTES FROM IRWIN ABOUT HIS POLITICAL VIEWS--I GUARENTEE YOU IT WILL BE DIFFICULT.

RIP CROC HUNTER

Okay, I'm good now. Sorry about the caps--this is just asanine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

134. That and the fact he later came out and said he didn't care two

pins about the machinations of politics. People like to argue for the sake of the argument and it almost always makes them look like assholes. :hi: More are with you than against you.

[buddhamama]

141. also,

i belong to a couple of conservation groups who have in recent yrs joined with other orgs, typically seen as RW such as the NRA, to lobby Congress against one environmentally damaging Bill or another. i don't see how i am much different than Steve in this regard.
there are times when you must put personal politics aside for the greater good.

[LostinVA]

142. The caps scared-ed-ed me.... but good post!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

144. They scared you so much you double posted!

They scared me too, but yeah, it was a good post.

[LostinVA]

145. OMG! I didn't mean to....

See how scared-ed I was???

[zcflint09]

166. Scared-ed...the new "Truithiness"?

You may be just onto something ;)

Thanks for the support.

[LostinVA]

143. The caps scared-ed-ed me.... but good post!

[ForrestGump]

152. Thanks

The real and gravedancers morons in this whole furor won't take in a word of it, of course -- their minds are made up despite a prevalence of actual facts -- but we don't need those piggies, anyway. Not quite sure how they can reconcile their attitudes with the whole 'liberal' or 'progressive' thing, but I guess that's for them to sort out if they ever remove their heads from their asses.

[chelsea0011]

135. I don't hate him and I think he did do decent work, but he did go

out in the wild to harangue wild animals. You must of seen the video of him jumping off some higher ground onto the back of an animal.

[ForrestGump]

136. That was

Zorro.

[Tulum_Moon]

139. That is the way this place is

He was a right winger so his death is a good thing. No matter that he was from another country or that he was a avid conservationist. :sarcasm: ;(

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

140. Even though all evidence points to the fact that he actually didn't

care about politics one way or the other.

[ForrestGump]

149. On DU,

we don't need no steenking facts.

I don't have an ignore list, but my Pretentious Pseudointellectual Fuckwit List and my Despicable Asshole List have both been updated.

[treestar]

151. Why does any DUer "mourn" Steve Irwin?

I don't "hate" him, I don't know him, that's why I don't understand the "love" for him. Why mourn someone you don't know? It's a celebrity death. There's too much grief in the world as it is, taking on celebrity events at that level is too much.

It is similar to Bush, for me. I don't "hate" either, but have a lot of trouble understanding the extreme love people can have for someone they don't know. Seems better to spend it on someone you do know.

[Puglover]

153. I obviously didn't know him either.

But he was a good man who did alot of good for awareness of animals and their problems. And when something good leaves this earth it's worthy of a bit of sadness. Call it what you will.

On the other hand I'd quite happily piss on Bushes grave.

[BlackVelvetElvis]

156. I deeply appreciate anyone who cares for animals

That's why this Du'er mourns for him.
Do I have to personally know someone to feel thankful for their efforts on behalf of our animal friends? No.
I will miss Steve.

[uppityperson]

160. These guys died Sept 4, I mourn them

Christopher Walsh 30
Eric P. Valdepenas 21
Jared M. Shoemaker 29
Hannah L. Gunterman 20
Samuela Vanua unknown age
Stephen Wright 20

Steve Irwin? He did good things overall, but I didn't like the way he harassed animals to make them look scary though. I don't hate him, feel sorry he died, but I also feel sorry for these guys, their families and friends.

[Stardust]

165. Someone told me he was involved in bumfights. True?

[brentspeak]

164. Don't you realize that most of the posts bashing Steve Irwin

are from RW trolls just trying to stir up trouble? And from the looks of it, they've done a pretty good job.