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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:07 AM
Original message
"Pre-Crime" Registry : Some Facts
Edited on Tue Sep-05-06 01:19 AM by RoyGBiv
I offer this not to take away from Syrinx's thread, rather to ensure it is not buried within it since very little in the way of follow-up based on what is actually taking place here has been offered. With one notable, confused exception, people are rightly outraged, and they are expressing their outrage, but for the wrong reasons. This is primarily because the title of the thread is a bit mis-leading. (This is not Syrinx's fault. I saw the same headline in the place where he probably first saw this.) It could conceivably be used as a "pre-crime" registry, and that is naturally enough to hate this all on its own. But gets worse.

First this is not a new story. This is a follow-up by the _Toledo Blade_ to an ongoing story that began with the effort to give those who have accused members of the clergy of sexual abuse when they were children an opportunity to have their case heard in court. Many of these cases were outside the statute of limitations, and no criminal charges could be filed. The Ohio Legislature was forced into considering a method of changing the rules that would allow cases to be brought. To make a long story short, what eventually happened was an outline of a bill that would have done almost precisely what the victims were asking was paraded before the press as them taking a tough stand. Then the bill went into committee and was summarily gutted by the Republican leadership. The "civil registry" was *added* as a part of this gutting of the bill through colossal cave-in to the Catholic Conference.

Certainly constitutional questions exist here, and they will definitely need to be addressed, but this is not quite what it seems.

Here is a good summary of how the "civil registry" would work:


Here is how the registry - a pale substitute at best - would purportedly work: Suppose the statute of limitations has expired as to a particular childhood sexual abuse claim. A prosecuting attorney can bring a declaratory judgment action (that is, a judgment that seeks a court order, not damages or incarceration of the accused) against a named perpetrator.

The action is meant to determine if the perpetrator would have been found guilty, had the action been timely filed. If so, he is required to register his name in a public registry and to reside over 1,000 feet away from any school. Failure to register is a felony. Placement on the registry, and penalty for nonregistration, are the only remedies the statute provides.

Alternatively, if prosecutors do not act, then a victim can try to procure the same meager remedy via a lawsuit. But to do so, the victim must hire an attorney. The bill gives the victim attorney's fees if he prevails, but if he does not, he will have paid the steep costs of litigation for precious little.

From an artile at Findlaw.com by Marcia Hamilton. I strongly suggest reading the entire thing. Note that this is from April, 2006.

How the Ohio Legislature Betrayed Child Victims of Clergy Abuse, and How We Can Stop It From Happening Nationwide


In addition, here are a couple other articles, with introductory text, you might want to read to get some bearing on where this has gone and might be going.


Ohio’s Lawmakers Allow Clerical Predators Pass

Offering “Hollow, Empty Shell” Lawmakers Pretend To Be Tough On Sexual Predators

Tough Child Protection Bill From Senate Weakened In House Gives Church A Break

March 29, 2006

Yesterday Ohio’s Lawmakers voted in the House Judiciary Committee to “gut” the Senate Bill designed to protect Ohio’s children and hold abusers and those who harbor them accountable.

The new version offers merely empty promises to victims and won’t protect Ohio’s children. In fact, it guarantees that church officials who have harbored and shielded sexual predators will get to keep their secrets hidden.

More



Sex-offender registry takes shape
Ohio online program a first for any state

By JIM PROVANCE
BLADE COLUMBUS BUREAU
July 1st, 2006

COLUMBUS - Ohio set out without benefit of a road map yesterday to create an unprecedented on-line civil registry of accused sex offenders who may never have been convicted of a crime, charged with one, or even successfully sued.

With no similar plan tried in any other state, rules proposed by Attorney General Jim Petro provide insight into how the program would work.

The general idea was proposed last year by the Roman Catholic Church when faced with a unanimous Ohio Senate vote to open a one-time, one-year window for the filing of civil lawsuits in child sex abuse cases dating back as long as 35 years ago.

More


Notice that the Roman Catholic Church proposed the idea, in part because it prevents the kind of criminal investigation that would have gone along with what was originally being conceived.

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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks
Thanks for the clarification and, in a sense, amplification. :thumbsup:
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. No problem ...

Glad you took it in the spirit intended.

I had no idea about this. I read through that thread and decided something had to be going on here besides the obvious, so I started looking for some kind of actual text -- which I have still not found, btw -- and ended up running across a dozen or so stories on it. This was not what I was expecting to find at all, but it made me even more seething mad about it.

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soup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Adding my thank you and links to the legislation
as passed by the Senate:
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_17_PS

as passed by the House:
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_17_PH

as enacted:
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_SB_17_EN


Concurrence 03/29/06
Sent to Governor 05/01/06
End of 10-day period 05/12/06
Governor's Action 05/02/06
Effective Date 08/03/06
http://lsc.state.oh.us/coderev/sen126.nsf/Senate+Bill+Number/0017?OpenDocument

Requires (at the least) hipboots to wade through.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for the addition ...

I think I full hazmat suit will be necessary. :-)

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you--I raised questions about the background and constitutionality
of this move, because, as written, it didn't pass my stink test. Your elucidation shines some important light on the whole matter.

If there is a voluntary component to it, it is no different, really, than copping a plea.
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. I don't understand what you mean by "voluntary component"
It's not voluntary on the part of the accused is it?

I'm sorry for my confusion, but the more I read about this, the more confused I get.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The Catholics agreed to it
It's a deal they cut to avoid the whole discovery/trial process. The alternative would have been to throw open the books and let the bright light of day fall on all the nefarious deeds documented in the files. That likely would not have benefited either the individuals who are taking the civil remedy (perhaps the records show worse than what is widely known) or the hierarchy, which had a duty to protect and likely failed in it.

I'm guessing they all DID agree to it, if they didn't, they'd surely be suing, spitting and griping. It looks like getting put in a registry is better than going to jail AND being put in a registry.
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Devlzown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Let's just go ahead and lock them up too.
They would've been found guilty anyway, right? Right?
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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. YOUR information
NATIONAL SEX OFFENDER REGISTRY
New Hires Data Has Potential for Updating Addresses of Convicted Sex Offenders

Previous GAO work suggests that the National Directory of New Hires (NDNH) has
been useful for verifying eligibility for federal benefit programs and collecting debt owed
to the federal government, and is a timely source of information. The NDNH is a
database that includes:

• approximately 1.35 billion individual records furnished by 54 states and
territories, and federal agencies; and
• wage information that is submitted on at least a quarterly basis, new hire
information that is obtained from income tax withholding forms (W-4s) and
submitted to the NDNH within 30 days of hire, and unemployment insurance
data that is submitted monthly.

ttp://www.gao.gov/new.items/d06766.pdf (pdf)


Be sure to check out Appendix II: Comments from the Department of Health and Human Services, namely that this will put the Department of Health and Human Services into the law enforcement arena.
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm kicking this ...

... because the other thread that introduced the topic has people still missing the point.

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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. I really hate the thought of Tom Cruise doing anything prescient
but there you have it... :cry:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181689/
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RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Don't think Tom Cruise ...

Just think Phillip K. Dick. It's easier that way. :-)

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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-05-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's better.
Thank youse.
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