Mark Crispin Miller blogs on American Gestapo

[Marleyb]

American Gestapo

What BushCo wants, according to the fine print (Sec. 605) of the new PATRIOT Act, is a permanent Praetorian Guard, or Cheka, or Gestapo. It's all too easy to come up with apt historical analogies--but not with any from this nation's history.

"A permanent police force, to be known as the 'United States Secret Service Uniformed Division,'" empowered to "make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence" (what is "an offense against the United States?), "or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony" (what are "reasonable grounds"?).

I'm not making this up. See the text and URL below.

What will it take to get the press to notice this?

MCM
http://markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/2006/01/american-gestapo.html

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. So? The police can arrest anyone they witness commit an offense

It's called a crime.

Even a citizen can do it, but be prepared to justify your actions.

Please, save "Gestapo" for the black shirts who drag you out of bed and beat you in the street. As my father, who survived Hitler, noted often, this country is just as vulnerable as the Germans were to tyranny, but hyperbole doesn't serve our cause.

Federal police making arrests? As long as an independent judiciary monitors what they do, I won't lose sleep over this.

[robbedvoter]

2. Did you notice the word "warrantless"? Worth noting.

[Fredda Weinberg]

3. No, it's not

As I said, police can do it and so could you. Warrantless just means you haven't seen a judge first - not that there's no review.

[TahitiNut]

8. That all depends.

The police can detain a person for 24 hours (I think) and then must appear before a judge to make it an 'arrest' ... or some such "due process." It'd be interesting (not) to discover that 'warrantless arrest' means indefinitely ... and 'reasonable grounds' means a LOT less than 'probable cause.' The devil's in the details, methinks. I'm not inclined to make a benign interpretation of that language. Not at all.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. Where did 'indefinitely' come from?

and when I went to the citizen's police academy (I ran a computer program with the NYPD before 9/11 for underprivileged kids, so they asked me to go) the standard was a lot lower than you might think. As for the terms you've used, if you look it up, you'll see that probable cause is defined as a reasonable ground to believe that a crime has been committed.

[TahitiNut]

11. 'Indefinitely' comes from this current regime's practices.

It shouldn't be news to anyone, particualrly on DU, that this regime is "detaining" people "indefinitely."

For what it's worth, the Constitution refers to "people" when it talks about the limits of government authority and human rights ... NOT just "citizens."

[feelthebreeze]

4. You need to define what they will see as a "crime".

Read the article about the Patriot Act inclusion of the new terms and seriously question your reaction to what they mean as a crime. As expansive as it is, this could include much, including your current rebelliousness.

[Fredda Weinberg]

6. Sad as it might be

if the new Patriot Act passes, there will be new crimes - but you've changed the subject.

My point is simply that warrantless arrests are an every day occurence, so its mention in this context is mere hyperbole - but I've been seeing a lot of that from this author recently. Again, as long as an independent judiciary continues to review the actions of police, federal, state or local, I'm not prepared to call anyone a "Gestapo".

[feelthebreeze]

13. I follow this Patriot and he is most certainly not prone to hyperbole...

He is addressing real threats with profound consequences upon our freedoms and the safety of this Nation. Where have you been this week. Gore: "Constitutional Crisis", Hearings on Wiretapping forced to the basement and debate and findings squashed. Loud and forceful statements from our democratic leadership from both House and Senate about the need to stop the Patriot Act and give balance to our freedoms. A president who has been referred to as King, Monarch, loss of checks and balances, our Nation's government acting like a plantation... do any of these added together spell out anything but Alarm, Threat, or Wake up call to WE the People. I would be pressed to think of any statements that could reach the form of Hyperbole in these dangerous times. I am prepared to compare and name these current abhorations that control and subvert my democracy as Gestapo. Or any other name that brings up images of mass control and subjugation of a people. The time for passion and anger is now. The threat is upon all of us and Miller is but echoing these calls. Perhaps we should start listening.

[bpilgrim]

16. you won't call anyone a fascist until they kick-in your own door

typical


peace

[EFerrari]

17. And bashing Miller on yet another thread. Interesting.

Our government is detaining people without charging them, denying them recourse to an attorney, flying them all over the world to torture them but you think "Gestapo" is hyperbole?

lol

[bpilgrim]

15. here...

peace

[peacetalksforall]

5. Given everything we've seen - we can assume it is intended to be as

partisan as they can get away with - if they are in charge. Given that some Presidents might use the law to the maximum, but not exceed it - we must find them. We must never allow Republicans to rule again. Because they are not Republicans, they are tyrants.

[Marie26]

7. Do they need probable cause to arrest someone?nt

[juliana24]

9. It depends on what they determine "Probable Cause" is...

but these days, that can mean just about anything to the police.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

12. The posters so far seem to be focusing on the wrong thing

The frightening part of this concept is the formation of the group itself. What is the need? We already have police units spread all over the country that can do such things- the part you don't seem to see is the REASON for the formation of such a group.

This is the beginning of the American Gestapo. We're going to see uniformed Brownshirts soon- they will be as above the law as *bush now believes he is- and they will have weapons and dogs on leashes and they will be mean and nasty enough to use them without any restraint. Without ANY restraint. This group will be separate from everything legal, and they'll be untouchable.

To hell with what it says they will do. They'll do all that their first day, and go on from there.

This is BAD.

[EFerrari]

18. I agree. And their first loyalty won't be to a community

or even a department that has to function in a community, but to the group.

[Marleyb]

14. link to original discussion on this...

New Patriot Act creates the “Secret Service, Uniformed Division
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x201297

[EFerrari]

19. kick

[reprehensor]

20. Patriot Act Empowers Ministry of Homeland Security Gestapo

http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=180

...In addition to protecting fat-ass diplomats, Congress critters, and other VIPs, the USSSUD—oh heck, that acronym is too unwieldy, so let’s call this duck what it is, an American version of the Gestapo—will go where Bush goes (in uniforms, probably ninja black with SWAT regalia) and make sure “al-Qaeda” doesn’t get him, or for that matter make sure the streets are clean of any traitorous protesters (who are now routinely arrested or at minimal held at bay in “free speech zones” encircled in concertina wire).

But here’s the disturbing part: Chertoff and his minions will be allowed to commandeer your local cops under this draconian provision. “In carrying out the functions pursuant to paragraphs (7) and (9) of subsection (a), the Secretary of Homeland Security may utilize, with their consent, on a reimbursable basis, the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of State and local government.”

So let’s say Bush plans to traipse through your town and you send out an email to your friends urging them to practice their one-time civil liberty under the First Amendment of the now doormat Bill of Rights and stand on a public street corner with signs protesting the neocon mass murder campaign in Iraq. Of course, that very email will be scooped up by the largest intel op in the world—the National Security Agency, now effectively Bush’s personal snoop operation—and will be forwarded to Chertoff’s Gestapo and you may very well receive a visit the day before Bush’s motorcade wings through town and due to “extraordinary protective need” you may very well be arrested “without warrant” for an “offense against the United States,” that is to say for disagreeing with our Caesar, George W. Bush.

Sounds like the Gestapo to me, especially considering Hitler’s Gestapo was created to investigate and combat “all tendencies dangerous to the State.” In addition, the Gestapo was not subject to judicial review, same as Bush considers himself not subject to judicial review (and in fact brags about snooping on Americans without going before a court and obtaining a warrant). “As long as the … carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally,” Nazi jurist Dr. Werner Best stated. It appears AG Alberto Gonzales has taken a page out of Hitler’s playbook because the Bushites argue that it is “inefficient” to go before a judge and a more “agile” approach to violating and trashing the Constitution is required...

[Marie26]

21. Is this a part of the Secret Service

or an entirely new agency? It has the same name, but that might just be a ruse to hide the fact that this is a whole new police force. I notice the original name was the "Executive Protective Service," but someone must've thought that sounded a little too scary. And they're right.