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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 01:58 PM
Original message
We Hold These Truths

{1} "As pointed out by thoughtful students of history, one must not be distracted by the 'how' of an event but instead should on the 'who' and the 'why.' Accumulate the facts, though often contradictory, then concentrate on the overall process by which these events transpired. .... Who had the means, the motive, and the opportunity -- not only to devise such attacks, but to circumvent normal security measures and hinder any objective investigation?"
-- Jim Marrs; The Terror Conspiracy; page X

Those who have taken an interest in the Plame scandal are eagerly anticipating the arrival of "Hubris: The Inside Story of Spin, Scandal, and the Selling of the Iraq War" to their local bookstores. Recent articles in Newsweek and The Nation have confirmed that Richard Armitage was one of Robert Novak's sources, and "what Valerie Plame really did at the CIA." The authors, Newsweek's Michael Isikoff and The Nation's David Corn, have provided some of the essential reporting on the case over the past three years.

In a discussion of an article about Armitage, a friend said to me, "I just hope that Isikoff tells the whole truth about the scandal." Now, that is an interesting proposition. Will Isikoff and Corn tell the whole story? Indeed, could they? I do not think so, although I do not believe that lessens the value of the book. In fact, it may add to it.

When we consider two scandals that most citizens are familiar with, Watergate and Iran-Contra, the reasons may become clearer. In both cases, most Americans are aware of the "central" crimes that these scandals exposed. Yet both were far larger than the central crimes that were the substance of televised hearings and best-selling books.

Large criminal conspiracies are always compartmentalized. Even those at the highest levels tend to get their information on a "need to know" basis. This allows those questioned in any potential investigation to honestly say they do not know much about other people's roles, and more, it prevents almost anyone "turned" by investigators from being able to expose the larger criminal conspiracy.

It is worth examining how this tactic, used by "organized crime," evolved from the Watergate era to the Iran-Contra crimes. In Watergate, even with talented, serious investigator and several co-conspirators who became cooperative witnesses, there was no one investigation that revealed the "whole truth about the scandal."

We have to examine the grand jury investigation, including the work of the two Special Prosecutors, Archibald Cox and Leon Jaworski; the work of Peter Rodino Jr.'s House Judiciary Committee; and the Senate Watergate Committe, led by Sam Ervin. There is no single book that reveals the whole truth about the scandal: even Woodward and Bernstein's interpretation of Watergate demands that one reads two equally important books, "All the President's Men" and "The Final Days."

In Watergate, the various investigations were somewhat coordinated, and resulted in a number of the participants in the conspiracy being convicted for their crimes. Though certainly not flawless, the effort helped the country recognize the threat that Nixon's "Imperial Presidency" posed to our democracy. It helped reestablish the practice of separation of federal powers defined by the U.S. Constitution.

The series of crimes known as "Iran-Contra" posed many of the same threats to the separation of powers in our federal government. Not surprisingly, this larger conspiracy -- which was played out on a global stage -- involved many of the people who were associated with the right-wing of the Nixon administration. The investigations of the crimes were not coordinated, and this was one of the reasons that the majority of those involved in the conspiracy evaded justice. Another reason was that those running the conspiracy had learned the importance of compartmentalization from the Watergate affair.


{2} "Stability is an unworthy American mission, and a misleading concept to boot. We do not want stability in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and even Saudi Arabia; we want things to change. The real issue is not whether, but how to destabilize. ... Creative destruction is our middle name, both within our society and abroad. .... we must destroy them to advance our historic mission."
-- Michael Ledeen; The War Against the Terror Masters

Since the beginning of the Plame scandal, Ambassador Joseph Wilson has stated that it is part of a larger threat to our democracy. It is impossible to consider the "who," the "how," and the "why" of the Plame scandal without placing it in the context of the administration's efforts to bring our nation to war in Iraq. And the Iraqi invasion was part of the larger neoconservative agenda for the Middle East.

The neoconservatives were frustrated when the first President Bush refused to occupy Iraq in the first Gulf War. In 1992, a document that Barton Gellman of the Washington Post called "a classified blueprint intended to help 'set the nation's direction for the next century' " was leaked from the office of assistant secretary of defense Paul Wolfowitz. He had prepared the 46-page memo, with the help of his deputy, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, for Dick Cheney. Among other things, the document called for a permanent American military presence on six contenents to prevent any "potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role."

The neoconservative plan for the Middle East is further documented in the "Clean Break" policy paper that Doug Feith, Richard Perle, and David Wurmser prepared for Benjamin Netanyahu, and in the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) call for President Clinton to back their agenda in Iraq. Central to the neoconservatives' plans was Ahmed Chalabi, the head of the "Iraqi National Congress."

Chalabi was born into a Shiite Muslim family with close ties the monarchy that ruled Iraq. He fled the country at the age of 14. He would become a student of Albert Wohlsetter, who would introduce him to both Perle and Wolfowitz. Chalabi enjoyed the trust of the leaders of the neoconservative movement, despite his conviction for embezzlement in Jordan. He was considered untrustworthy by many in the American intelligence community, especially in the CIA.

In his article "What Valerie Plame Really Did at the CIA," David Corn notes that the Agency's Joint Task Force on Iraq members found no evidence of WMD production in Iraq when the Bush2 administration was preparing to remove Saddam from power. "JTFI officials came to suspect that some (defectors) had been sent their way by Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, an exile group that desired a US invasion of Iraq," Corn writes.

In "The Stovepipe" (The New Yorker), Seymour Hersch had in 2003 wrote, "Chalabi's defector reports were now flowing from the Pentagon directly to the Vice-President's office, and then on to the President, with little prior evaluation by intelligence professionals." The significance of this grows when we consider part of James Bamford's "Iran: The Next War" (Rolling Stone), where he writes, "On May 20th, shortly after the discovery of the leak, Iraqi police backed by American soldiers raided Chalabi's home and offices in Baghdad. The FBI suspected that Chalabi, a Shiite who had a luxurious villa in Tehran and was close to senior Iranian officials, was actually working as a spy for the Shiite government in Iran. Getting the U.S. to invade Iraq was apparently part of a plan to install a pro-Iranian Shiite government in Baghdad, with Chalabi in charge. The bureau also suspected that Chalabi's intelligence chief had furnished Iran with highly classified information on U.S. troop movements, top-secret communications, plans of the provisional government and other closely guarded materials on U.S. operations in Iraq. On the night of the raid, The CBS Evening News carried an exclusive report by correspondent Lesley Stahl that the U.S. government had 'rock-solid' evidence that Chalabi had been passing extremely sensitive intelligence to Iran -- evidence so sensitive that it could 'get Americans killed'."

Bamford was detailing the neocon-AIPAC spy scandal in that article. It is important for us to recognize that the neocon-AIPAC spy scandal, and the Niger forgeries scandal as well, are parts of the larger criminal conspiracy that includes the Plame scandal. They are evidence of the compartmentalization of activities that makes it difficult for any one investigation to uncover the "whole truth."


{3} Rep. Boggs: "Let's say (someone) .... was recruited by someone in the CIA. The man who recruited him would know, wouldn't he?"

Allen Dulles: "Yes, but he wouldn't tell."

Chairman Warren: "Wouldn't tell it under oath?"

Dulles: "I wouldn't think he would tell it under oath, no .... He ought not tell it under oath. Maybe not tell it to his own government ...."

McCloy: "Wouldn't he tell it to his own chief?"

Dulles: "He might or might not."
-- January 22, 1964 Warren Commission session transcript made public in 1975.

James Mann, in "Rise of the Vulcans," notes that Richard Armitage's military record doesn't tell the whole story of his service in Vietnam. Mann writes that he took part in "some of the grittiest, most secretive operations of the war." Some of the people close to him believe that Armitage was part of the Phoenix program, which was run by the CIA. Others are less sure what connection Armitage had with US intelligence operations in Vietnam. It appears that even 30 years later, Dick Armitage has not disclosed exactly what he did, even to some of his closest associates.

In "Plan of Attack," Bob Woodward notes that "Armitage decided to insert himself somewhat dramatically into the Time's developing story and protect Powell's flank by speaking on the record." Woodward gives a few examples of Armitage's talent in manipulating the news media, generally in an attempt to counter some of the agenda being pushed by Scooter Libby. Woodward also states that Armitage "wasn't enthusiastic about Chalabi."

In the recent reports concerning Armitage being a source for Novak and Woodward, regarding valerie Plame's identity, it has been said that Dick is known as "something of a gossip." This is something that comes from his association with the Iran-Contra scandals, when he "explained" his participation as being merely a result of his enjoying "gossiping" with others. Although no one believed it then, today the reports that Mr. Armitage is prone to gossip is accepted as fact by many in the corporate media.

Armitage's known role in the Plame scandal centers upon the State Department report, produced at the request of Scooter Libby, concerning Joseph Wilson's 2002 trip to Niger. A couple versions of the report were made public earlier this year. One, which is dated July 7, 2003, appears to be what the public has been told was passed around members of the administration after Wilson's New York Times op-ed was printed. The other is dated June 10, 2003. On page 4 it notes, "Meeting apparently convened by Valerie Wilson, a CIA WMD managerial type and the wife of Amb. Joe Wilson, with the idea that the agency and the larger USG could dispatch Joe to Niger to use his contacts there to sort out the Niger/Iraq uranium sale question. Joe went to Niger in late 1999 in regard to Niger's uranium program, apparently with CIA support."

In the "What Valerie Plame Really Did..." article, Corn notes that Valerie had served the agency in Athens, where she had "posed as a State Department employee." This is a common practice for Agency employees, as it provides the protection of diplomatic immunity. Later in her career, she would work in the most clandestine role, as a NOC. "They do not pretend to work for the US government," Corn writes, "They might claim to be a businessperson."

Dick Armitage would certainly have recognized the significance of Ambassador Wilson's 1999 trip to Niger, "apparently with CIA support." Surely Dick Cheney and Scooter Libby would, as well. One might speculate on if Armitage spoke with Woodward and Novak in support of the OVP, or in opposition to them, but it seems rather unlikely that it was merely gossip.


{4} Question: Would you oppose a congressional investigation into the leak of Valerie Plame's identity? And if not, would you be willing to cooperate with such an investigation by handing over the work product of your investigation?

Fitzgerald: ... There are strict rules about grand jury secrecy if there were an investigation. And, frankly, I have to pull the book out and get the people smarter than me about grand jury rules in Chicago and sit down and tell me how it works. My gut instinct is that we do not -- very, very rarely is grand jury information shared with the Congress. ....

I think what people may be confused about is that reports used to be issued by independent counsels. ... That statute has lapsed. I'm not an independent counsel, and I don't have the authority to write a report ..."
-- Patrick Fitzgerald's press conference; 10-28-05

It has been reported that in October of 2003, after reading a Robert Novak article, Richard Armitage concluded that he was one of the two sources Novak had mentioned in his previous article exposing Valerie Plame's identity. After contacting Colin Powell, Armitage spoke to the FBI agents investigating the leak. Their investigation continued, and what they found resulted in Patrick Fitzgerald's being assigned to the case two months later. Mr. Fitzgerald was aware of Armitage's story, but did not choose to make him a target.

Two years later, when Bob Woodward's role in the scandal was exposed, Armitage apparently spoke to Mr. Fitzgerald. Again, no charges resulted from that incident.

In pre-trial motions, Team Libby has requested documentation concerning Woodward's source. Judge Walton has ruled it is not material to Scooter's case. It is possible that the OVP has considered using information on Armitage to try to take the focus off of the criminal activities of both Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney. If so, the book by Corn and Isikoff may have done those who want to see justice in this case a real favor.

In "The Final Days," authors Woodward and Bernstein told of Special Prosecutor Leon Jaworskigoing to see Judge Sirica, to say that the grand jury had named Richard Nixon as an unindicted co-conspirator in the plot to obstruct justice. "You can expect a report from the grand jury," he told Sirica. "The grand jury wants the report to be sent to the House Judiciary Committee. It pertains to the President."

At this point, we know that Mr. Fitzgerald has indicted Scooter Libby in the Plame scandal. And, from the pre-trial documents which have become part of the public record, we know that VP Dick Cheney was involved in daily discussions with Libby regarding how to respond to Ambassador Joseph Wilson.

It is uncertain what future actions -- if any -- that Mr. Fitzgerald may take, beyond convicting Libby for his part in the criminal conspiracy. But just as in the days of Nixon's being identified as a co-conspirator, there is significant evidence that VP Cheney violated the law. And, just as Watergate required the coordinated efforts of all three branches of the federal government to achieve justice, this case does, too.

Citizens should be pressing the case for members of the House and Senate to initiate investigations into the lies that brought our nation to war in Iraq, including the Plame scandal. VP Cheney should be impeached. With the war in Iraq being recognized as being built on a foundation of lies, and with Cheney's approval rating being under 20%, democrats are indeed in a position to move on this. It is as important today as it was in the Watergate era.


{5} "We Americans all too often take for granted the luxury of living and benefiting from the rights and freedoms guarenteed by our constitution. Several actions undertaken by this administration serve as a reminder that the social contract that binds us is fragile and requires our vigorous protection if we ever hope to preserve it. We have known this since the time of the drafting of the constitution over two hundred years ago when Benjamin Franklin remarked that the founding fathers had bequeathed to the nation 'a republic, if you can keep it'."
-- Ambassador Joseph Wilson

Joseph and Valerie Wilson filed a civil suit against Scooter Libby, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and "John Does No. 1-10" in US District Court on July 13, 2006. This case holds the potential to complete the investigation in all three branches of the federal government: Mr. Fitzgerald, through the Department of Justice, acts on behalf of the executive branch; the House and Senate are, of course, the legislative branch; and the civil case brings in the judiciary.

Let us consider the situation with Armitage. On August 22, AP writers Matt Apuzzo and John Solomon reported, "Plame considering suing Armitage." They quoted the Wilson's attorney Melanie Sloan as saying, "I think maybe Armitage was in on it. The question is just what was Armitage's role?"

On August 31, Byron York whined that the Wilsons would likely not sue Armitage. He quoted Ms. Sloan as saying that "it doesn't look at this point that Armitage was party" to the effort to damage the Wilsons, and that his role "is really not the same as the concerted effort that Cheney, Rove, and Libby made to get Valerie's undercover identity out to the newspaper."

Melanie Sloan is a very talented attorney. She hasn't closed the door on Dick Armitage. It seems very likely that her team will depose Mr. Armitage, to find out what he knows about the OVP/WHIG/OSP effort to damage Joseph and Valerie Wilson. Before becoming the executive director of CREW (Citizens for Ethics and Responsibility in Washington), shewas an aide to John Conyers and Charles Schumer.

Readers who are interested in investing in the civil suit against Cheney, Rove, and Libby are encouraged to contribute to their Legal Support Trust. We cannot afford to take for granted those rights guarenteed by our Constitution. We cannot allow a criminal conspiracy centered in the Office of the Vice President to trash the separation of powers. Please consider contributing today. For more information, see:

http://wilsonsupport.org/
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Lovely To See An H20Man OP Again
It's been a drought Waterman!

*shadow government*
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. This was a great article but I have a question for you. In every
'conspiracy' or whatever you want to call it there's one person, one Professor Moriarity so to speak, that knows all the details, names, and has an invisible hand in stirring the pot.

Who do you think it was in each of these three 'conspiracies'?
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StrictlyRockers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Secrecy is anathema to healthy governance.
"Let's say (someone) .... was recruited by someone in the CIA. The man who recruited him would know, wouldn't he?"

Allen Dulles: "Yes, but he wouldn't tell."
<...>
McCloy: "Wouldn't he tell it to his own chief?"

Dulles: "He might or might not."
"Let's say (someone) .... was recruited by someone in the CIA. The man who recruited him would know, wouldn't he?"

Allen Dulles: "Yes, but he wouldn't tell."
<...>
McCloy: "Wouldn't he tell it to his own chief?"

Dulles: "He might or might not."
__________________________________________________

Ok, boys and girls, repeat after me. Can you say:

*Secret cabal shadow government*
*Corporatocracy*
*Corporatism*
*Fascism*
*Rule by the Military-Industrial Complex*

Call it what you will. I am taking my country back!

-SR

The very word 'secrecy' is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings."ohn F. Kennedy
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Yeah but these were schemes hatched out by players in
each little administration. Let's say they had a control figure. Who would each conspiracies 'control' be?

Are you talking a 'global conspiracy' (hate the word conspiracy but it works) on the order of the Bilderbergers or what? Or the legendary Rothschild cabal? Or for that matter the BFEE?

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Interesting question.
I'll do my best to answer it, in terms of my limited understanding.

If I'm looking to build a log cabin out in the woods, I can get my Reader's Digest "Back to Basics" and do it myself. I might rely on help from a few friends for doing some parts. But it is something I can do.

If I'm looking to build an apartment complex in the nearest town, I'm going to have to have the overall plan, but I'll subcontract different parts of the work to different groups that specialize in concrete foundations, in plumbing, and in electricity. I'll shop around and find the best local contractors at the best price.

And if I work for a large international firm, and want to promote a number of motels we'll call the Enron-Inns, and invest in gated communities we will call Halliburton Empires, I'm going to be dealing with a board of directors, and with one or possibly two levels of employees below me. But they will do the logistics as far as searching out those in distant lands who lay concrete or forge Niger documents.

In my opinion, there are not Professor Moriarity-like people who know all the details. (In the Plame scandal, for example, Mr. Fitzgerald likely knows more than VP Cheney.) But, as far as who stirs the pot, or puts things in motion, I'd look at that board of directors, and at who they appoint as the director of the company.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. All roads lead to Cheney
What we have here is an OJ case... we may not be able to get them in the Criminal court--- but we sure can get them in Civil.

I urge everyone to donate a couple of bucks so that we may get to the truth of this important matter.

Excellent piece H2O...excellent

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Some have asked
about what the money goes for. Civil cases can be very expensive. The contributions are not to benefit the Wilsons. As noted on their Legal Support Trust's web site:

"Should the civil action result in a payment to Joe and/or Valerie that is in excess of all costs associated with their legal activities, the equivalent of monies contributed to the Trust will be returned to the Trust. All Trust monies will then be distributed to a charitable organization(s) that works to protect government whistleblowers' First Amendment rights and helps to defend them from retaliatory action."
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #2
35. Nobody knows ALL the details
Ie if a hit is ordered, aside from it being ordered very indirectly (mere suggestion to the right person is enough), the one giving the 'order' does not -need- to know the who, where, when and how, nor how much it's going to cost. They'll know where and when once the hit has taken place, but they may never know exactly who did it, even though they may know enough to find out if they'd want to.

Knowing to much would mess up their Plausible Deniability.
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Printing and taking to lunch with me
I will share this with friends, thanks, kpete
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks.
Interesting about Melanie Sloan. Better check the popcorn futures.

:popcorn:

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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thank you H2O Man.
Edited on Wed Sep-06-06 02:35 PM by myrna minx
I would love to be a fly on the wall for the Armitage deposition. Do you think that Sloan would prefer to depose him before they depose Bush/Cheney?
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks H2O Man
you have such a knack for making complicated things more easily understood.

K & R even though it's already on the front page!
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow! Thanks, and K&R.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. All the misdirection in the last
few days is interesting because the narrative centers on the Washington Insiders truthiness view, not the actual Truth. Interesting times indeed, in DC, especially since Fitz has been clam-like and the others have been open spewing spigots. It's not a healthy premise to base an opinion on only one side of a story - what DC is best at.

:applause: H20 Man!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
11. Pieces Falling Into Place
“Large criminal conspiracies are always compartmentalized. Even those at the highest levels tend to get their information on a "need to know" basis. This allows those questioned in any potential investigation to honestly say they do not know much about other people's roles, and more, it prevents almost anyone "turned" by investigators from being able to expose the larger criminal” conspiracy.

This jumped out at me and is why “they” have been so successful at achieving their aims. Even today, despite the debacle in Iraq and the trouncing Israel rec’d at Hezbollah’s hands they are still shilling for a war with Iran. What I don’t and never have understood is what is the point of all of these wars. I understand the philosophy of American hegemony that seems to be a blood lust with the neos, but is there no sanity anywhere in DC. How, have they managed to get themselves into such an influential position? How was Cheney allowed to choose himself for Veep and how large exactly, is the conspiracy? Are we dealing with a hydra here? And what is extraordinarily important, to me, is how you point out how effective compartmentalization is to criminal conspiracies and how that is the sand now being kicked in Fitzgerald’s face.

As for Armitage, it has long been my contention that when he spoke with Woodward he was doing an end run to protect his buddy Powell. And I would love to see him deposed. I saw the lawyer on KO, and she said a decision hasn’t been made yet as to whether or not to include him in the suit. It’s hard to figure Armitage, and where he stands, out. He’s been in a number of pub administrations so one has to figure he’s considered to be “one of them”, yet comments made by him also indicate a certain level of disdain for Cheney et all because “they don’t what it’s like to have a bullet fly by your ear” (paraphrase)

As to that worm Chalabi, how ironic that Iran would want to set him up as the head of a puppet government while the neos had the plan to set him up as a US puppet. “great” minds? I still have hopes that FitzG. Will get to the bottom of the Islamic Charity business and indict both him and Miss Judy Amok. Interesting that she should have been involved in each compartment of this conspiracy.

Fascinating read, H man and I too would love to know the control behind all this. My money is on Poppy and his consigliore Baker. What I don’t think they counted on when all this began was that their boy and his admin would run amok and make it obvious how just how traitorous republicans associated with them are.

*shadow government*

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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
27. K&R and I agree..
the Board of Directors of the military-industrial complex are at the root of shadow government/fascist dealings. Their greatest enemy is peace. Peace be upon them.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. The "power elite"
"In our comprehensive reviewing of published, academically accepted history we continually explore for the invisible power structure behind the visible kings, prime ministers, czars, emperors, presidents, and other official head men, as well as for the underlying, hidden causes of individual wars and long, drawn-out campaigns not disclosed by the widely published and popularly accepted causes of these wars."
-- B. Buckminster Fuller; Critical Path
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. I think the underlying power
in most cases is the underlings' simple fear of their insanity.

Great post as always, H2O Man.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. What an excellent post
hitting all the high notes and asking the same questions I would have. This is a fitting companion to H2O Man's wonderfully thought provoking OP. To echo a poster above: it's great to see another H2O Man thread.

K&R.
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ms liberty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks H20Man...I'vebeen waiting for you to weigh in on this!
This thing is so doggone complex, and you explain it so much better than anyone else. Now I can go back and see the threads twining this mess together.

Giving you a K&R - I don't care if it is already on the Front Page, you've earned it!
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. welcome back, we missed you!!!
this is fantastic work... as usual. hope you are feeling better:)
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
50. Larisa, I've been curious about something
Sorry to go OT in H2O's thread, but I've been wondering about the latest report from Corn that Plame was the operations chief of the Joint Task Force on Iraq, giving only a parenthetical note about her Iran work ("(She also assisted operations involving Iran and WMDs.)").

Did this confirm/conflict with any research you had done for your work about Plame's involvment with tracking WMD to/from Iran? The two are not mutually exclusive, of course, but when I read Corn's piece the quesiton mark popped up over my head. Valerie's importance (read danger) to the the neocon cabal just doubled in my mind.

The fact that Darth outed the very person tasked with determining the truth about Iraq's WMDs, simply because she didn't report what he wanted to hear, is a profoundly distrubing narrative that the public could grasp very easily (provided it escape from the rightwing-media echo chamber long enough to sink in).
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. well i have not read the book, just the article
but it is not as tidy as all that... but in terms of timing and such, they do not contradict, it is just that given my focus on Iran for these last few years, it would make sense as to me having more information on a particular "op" and they were approaching it from the pre-war/Iraq intel view point, so it is possible that they either did not get as much or they simply focused on what they thought was the most damning. again, i have not read the book, so perhaps there is more. in terms of the key points, that is: she was covert, she was running assets, she was a NOC working on WMD, in the Iran (in/out) and Iraq (in) analysis, their work and my own do not contradict one another. my concerns in terms of what I have read I have let David know, but they are questions of lingo, not substance... for example, i think there is much confusion with regard to her being COO of ops in the task force... just like military folks have their own lingo and very strict references in terms of rank, etc., so too do spooks and spooks would be very specific on grade level of the officer, not title, as titles change quickly and someone who is an expert in something is pulled into varying ops as needed, maybe leading a team in one, and just providing a supporting role in the other. so my concern was this focus on title over grade level, that is, her grade level was mid-management, equivalent to major in the army. so my issues are issues of how these sources presented this information moreso than it being accurate or inaccurate... i simply have not read the book yet to make an honest assessment. if it was just Isikoff, i would perhaps be very skeptical, but Corn tends to be carefully, so i give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that some of my issues will be resolved in the book. but on substance points, the points that matter with regard to her being outed and how and by whom, and that she was working on WMD tracking in the region does not change... in fact, after having spoken with him, if anything, his brief analysis of the Iran stuff confirms what I was told, but again, have to read the book. hope that helps.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Right.
I haven't read the book yet. Living in the sticks in rural upstate New York, I'll have to wait until Monday for my copy to arrive.

However, from what I have read, there is no contradiction between what the book says, and what you have reported for some time. In fact, I consider the book to be a verification of your on-target reports.

I would think that we have to keep in mind that while Iraq and Iran are distinct countries, there is an interesting history with significant overlap in some areas. Chalabi has been at the nexus of these countries and the US for some time.

Also, in defense of Michael Isikoff, it should be noted that he was among the first of the corporate media's journalist to report that Valerie Plame indeed had covert status. (The CIA Leak: Plame Was Still Covert; Newsweek; 2-13-06)
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. yeah, but i have some serious issues with his past
work... when he is on target, i am very outspoken about it... for example the koran thing... me, salon, and AAR were the only people defending him on that story, not because i particularly respect him, but because it was a known allegation, it was a fact of koran abuse, in terms of toilet or no toilet was perhaps a matter of error, but that there was Koran abuse was not up for dispute. it was a solid fact that had been reported over and over, yet everyone jumped on Newsweek for it, everyone in the same profession who should have known better. so i am able to seperate my questions of credibility in terms of a particular story, having said that, he tends to be more on than off, but when he is off, he is way off... i mean so way off that one has to wonder if he did not spend the night drinking with Rush and used him as a source.

corn i respect and i want to wait and see, but on first blush, while there are seeming issues, they are cosmetic, and not important to the key pieces of the story. and H20 is right, Iran/Iraq overlaps, but more importantly, an expert is an expert on something specific not a whole country... and an expert would be pulled into projects as needed. he also is not key on timing, so perhaps his sources do not say if the two projects overlapped, which is quite possible (but given that we had been in Iraq during special ops b4 the war, and had already attacked, and had already watched the major TF forces depart for the states in April and May, he may be following this as specific to the lead up to the war. simply hard to tell without the book. either way really, it does not contradict and thanks H20, your comments are something to wear with pride.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #62
64. I would have to
say that Mr. Isikoff often sanitizes the truth. I say that with an awareness that his employment requires that. And I'm mighty glad to say that you trust your readers enough to just put the cards on the table, and let the reader deal with the sometimes messy truth. That's a big difference.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. thank you
as always...

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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #64
72. I Agree With The Both Of You
Regarding Isikoff, don't always trust the fullness of his work. Corn on the other hand seems to have taken this very seriously and the fact that he hooked up with Isikoff gives me more faith in the book (not read yet) than I might normally have.

*shadow government*
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #55
71. Thank you Larisa
That does help a lot, and I too am looking forward to reading the book.
Hope you feel better!
:yourock:
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #50
61. one more thing... it is
important to consider who reviews the book, who discusses the book, and so forth... because if the intel community is not really too excited or finds it inacurate, they will be less likely to make a big deal out of it... they might say, see this proves she was covert, and then simply not mention the rest of the book at all... so if you want to understand how credible this book is, look for who goes gaga over it. for example, when I ran my report on her work with in/out Iran ops, i was out there alone for three months before anyone else in the media thought to ask the questions. durng that time, no serious reporter and no credible analyst for any of the networks ever challanged that story and it has to do with how credible they find my sources even if they themselves do not know the particular intel... they look at things like, for example, terms that I use that I could not know unless i am talking clearly to someone who does know... like what the damage report was called, who authorized it, etc... or know locales or chain of command type things...

by the same token, when the media went wild over the NYC bomb plot that never was, it was because of these little particulars that I was skeptical... like, no on mentioned specifics of dates, times, money transfers, but just general and generic nonsense such as the name of the terror network, which these days is being used for all of them as a generic term, but is not accurate. one would not call the KLA the same as the MEK... but someone writing a credible story would have sources provide details like that in order to give the reporter a way to check other aspects of the story, like, for example, my sources - one went on the record - pointed to what was not known about the so called plot, that is, what was not available to the feds, making the entire thing really a non-plot: no funding trail was being followed, no actionable plans were being followed, no preperations of any sort were refered to, only some really crazy story that was actually not doable as it would defy the laws of physics to achieve the desired result. so because that story had all of these generic terms and inaccurate references, calling them Al Q ops, when there was no proof that they were in any way related to Al Q and given their local, could just as likely be MEK as anything else, and other such issues where provided... as well as what was not remotely explained that should have been... all of that made me question the validity of the story and by the end of the day, i knew it was a non-plot ... so for these reasons, a good book like Cobra II, for example, does not need a lot of media attention because the experts will find it valuable and will view the reporter as credible... or in this case, the military person as writing a serious piece and not shilling like someone else might... hope that makes sense, i have a fever and not feeling too hot... but read the book, and watch for the reviews and where they come from and the level of discussion among people who are credible (in your eyes) and you will get a sense.

but given that he both confirmed Iran and that there was an internal after action report done, which up until then I had been the only one to say (don't think MSNBC filed that as part of their report, but i may be wrong), suggests that they took my work seriously enough to want to take it out for a ride even if as a side note to their main focus.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 03:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kick.
:kick:
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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Excellent compilation!
Thanks for all your work in putting this together, it is much appreciated.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Great post
The irony of ironies is that Plame was working on Iraqi WMD. Whether she was covert or not is irrelevant--she was working in our behalf on questions that could have kept us out of this war.

Outing Plame merits impeachment...whose impeachment is the only question.

News and commentary, left to right
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. K&R!
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
21. I find the recent media play from the GOP on this issue curious...
they have to know that Armitage can't really be of much use here. It seems a drastic move to toss him under the bus with little more to gain than a questionable issue deflection during a mid-term election year.

I get the feeling both this matter and the recent attacks on Fitzgerald's character are part of a pretext for a strategy yet to come.

K&R
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. You may recall
that President Bush was in Chicago in July. He had socialized with Mayor Daley, and talked about what a great mayor he was. He did a press conference, I think, on Friday, July 7. I think I have the date right.

During the press conference, Bush had a lot of questions about world and national issues. He gave the usual prepared lies in response. Then a Chicago reporter asked him if he was going to reappoint Fitzgerald?

I remember a few DUers thought it had to do with his role in the Plame scandal. It didn't, though. It was in reference to his position as a federal prosecutor in Chicago.

Bush responded by saying he wasn't sure, and that he would leave that up to Attorney General Gonzales. Then he added something about how he didn't really followFitzgerald's investigations.

There is a guy named Byrne who had a report on a blog ("real clear politics"?) who wrote about how both democrats and republicans dislike Patrick Fitzgerald, because of his history of going after anyone who breaks the law. Byrne called Fitzgerald a "renegade" and said the powers that be resent the fact that he won't do what they want him to. And so they are united in hoping he will disappear from the scene.

There are some people who have unreal expectations about what he can or can't do on the Plame case. And there are some who don't have any real understanding of what he does, and who think his previous work in New York means he is "one of them." I guess that is to be expected. What is far more troubling is the coordinated character assassination that the right-wing, including their puppets in the corporate media, are attempting now. You may be right that it is in anticipation of something that is upcoming in the investigation.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. One Man's Renegade
Is another's hero. They're scared of something all right, but is it specific or in general?

*shadow government*
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ReadTomPaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Setting up the pretext for a dismissal on partisan grounds ...
does seem to be the general direction here, but I can't help but think it may go farther than this.

Going by the current playbook, attacking Fitzgerald on his own strengths would involve turning the legal system against him in some fashion and connecting his involvement in the Plame matter to some form of corrupt or criminalized conduct either past or present, poisoning his findings to the courts and public opinion.

Neither the Armitage story nor the hit pieces really do this by themselves so I suspect more is coming. A prosecutor with Fitzgerald's history likely has a long list of powerful people willing to assist any White House efforts in that regard, as your comments above indicate.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. One name that
comes to mind from Chicago is Bob Kjellander, an operative who has been tied to some unexplained funds associated with a state bond deal set up by a democrat. It was over 3/4ths a million. Kjellander has experience as a republican national committee leader, and has bragged about having juice with Karl Rove. These are the types of enemies Mr. Fitzgerald has made, who are likely to be more than willing to use their influence to coordinate a smear campaign with the White House.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. !
*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Small world,
isn't it?

I have been reminded that Kjellander got $800,000 in "unexplained fees" from a state "bond-borrowing deal" set up by a democrat named Blagojevich, who is one of the local power brokers who despiuses Patrick Fitzgerald. There is a fellow named Dennis Byrne from the Chicago area who has done some interesting work documenting some of this information. If I can find some links to his work, I will post it on this thread.

But Mr. Fitzgerald has united some of the most crooked republicans and democrats in the state of Illinois. They are among the "sub-contractors" who are more than eager to attempt to gain favor in the viper's nest at the OVP, by attempting to coordinate the smear campaign against Patrick.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. "some of the most crooked republicans and democrats"
Major problem for us, for who can we trust? No one on our side but us it seems so often these days.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. History calls
upon individuals. That's one of the reasons that I suggest that DUers would do well to read (or re-read) the second Woodward-Bernstein book, "The Final Days." In the past 6 months, in response to a number of my posts advocating that we push for the House to begin an investigation of VP Cheney for impeachable offenses, a number of friends here have suggested that congress is different today .... because it seems that congress then had to have been less partisan in order to investigate Nixon. That isn't an accurate recollection. Both democrats and republicans were hesitant to go down that path, even though it was clearly what the Constitution demands.

Once they started on that path, even moderate republicans were hoping to avoid the vote on impeachment. Right up to the last 24 hours. But history called, and "normal" human beings, complete with weaknesses, frailties, vices, and chinks in their armor, did the right thing.

And, make no mistake, VP Cheney has done as much (if not much more) to warrent being impeached. We should look at the first article the House considered, to put Cheney's behavior in proper context.

More, we should read and re-read the testimony and decision in the Supreme Court decision forcing Nixon to give up the tapes, and consider how it might relate to the civil suit. Those in the Executive branch cannot claim some privilege of office to justify illegal activities.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. The Irony Of The Lewinsky Matter
Is that in their zealotry the pubs did their damnest to force a sitting president to "testify". That move will now come back to haunt them, as will so many others.

*shadow government*
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. Funny you should mention Kjellander -- is this the same guy?
There was an IBM lobbyist named Kjellander -- same guy?

http://www.suntimes.com/output/ryan/cst-nws-ryan151.html

http://www.sj-r.com/extras/ryan/73751.asp


Take a look at this article -- Carlyle Group mentioned.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9766.htm
-----------------
But new questions about political connections have emerged over the firm's efforts to win business from the Illinois Teachers' Retirement System pension fund.

Last week one of Carlyle's founders and managing directors, David Rubenstein, appeared before the teacher fund's board of trustees to explain why his firm paid Springfield lobbyist and Republican National Committee Treasurer Robert Kjellander a $4.5 million fee.

The payment was ostensibly in exchange for work that Kjellander did to persuade the pension fund to invest $500 million with Carlyle.

While the arrangement violated no laws and was disclosed earlier by Carlyle to the teacher pension fund, it has drawn the interest of a federal grand jury in Chicago that in a different case has indicted a former teacher fund trustee, Stuart Levine, and two Chicago lawyers, Joe Cari and Steven Loren.
-----------------


FYI -- Lou Gerstner who used to be head of IBM is now head of Carlyle Group.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Wow!
Now isn't that eye-opening?

Thank you!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. But How Eye Opening?
More clarification please.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. There is an old saying,
"One hand washes the other." Now, when you hear about a fellow who is a republican operative, who coordinates hand-washing between Chicago and Washington DC, and who gets paid $800,000 here and $4.5 million there, and who has connections to Karl Rove and Carlyle .... I'd thiink his name might be worth taking note of. Of course, I could be wrong.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. FYI --I think Kjellander was a state lobbyist
I think the guy mentioned in those articles was an Illinois STATE lobbyist, not a federal lobbyist.

I checked the federal lobbyist database and didn't get a hit on the name "Kjellander".
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. I think that
being a national committeeman would mean he represented Illinois' interests. He is a state-level republican operative, with links to the federal level. I think it's the same fellow. The one who was on the national committee does things like finding Judy Barr Topinka to run for state office.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #49
78. Wow-- Carlyle funds 45 PERCENT RETURN????
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/8/10/93657.shtml

>>
Carlyle spokesman Christopher Ullman said Kjellander's fees aren't unusual and the pension fund's investment is simply smart business.

"The average return on these funds is 45 percent per year," he said. "You're not going to get that out of an S&P fund. The pensioners and board are doing very well investing in Carlyl
>>
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #23
45. Thanks for this update and just passing along that Tucker Carlson
was raving over Fitzgerald the other night and saying he needs to be "investigated" and that no one had done anything illegal in the Plame outing
except Fitzgerald. He ended by saying that you could trust his (Tucker's) word that Fitzgerald would be found to be the only one who did anything illegal. I was so upset that I was going to post about it on DU but after thinking more about it found it so bizarre that I thought no one would find it of interest here.

It was a vile and vicious trashing and shocking because Tucker is not the brightest bulb in the string and yet he seemed to be confident in his ravings that were really so OTT. That was puzzling to me that he was put up to putting himself on the line to rave on about Fitzgerald having no credibility or even authority to investigate Plame. Did he not know that Fitz was appointed a special counsel by Asscroft who had to recuse himself?
Was Tucker himself being set up by someone and was too clueless to understand that he was being used?

Anyway, thanks for connecting more dots in the PlameGate investigation. You always find threads that have been missed that help give more perspective to the whole pattern in the cloth.

:toast:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. I saw Tucker's rant.
I do not like that fellow. But I know that he is smart enough to know that what he was saying was absolutely wrong. If, for example, he had a guest familiar with the case on, Tucker could be put in checkmate in less than 90 seconds. The obvious conclusion is that Tucker was serving as a faithful parrot, squawking a lie for a cracker reward. I can respect those with honest differences of opinion, but Tucker is a person who will lie when told to.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #45
51. Lest We Forget
Edited on Thu Sep-07-06 10:28 AM by Me.
Tucker's father, along with that ghastly Comstock, is in charge of the Liar Libby's defense fund. A fact he has yet to disclose publicly. Nor has he been called on it by anyone who has interviewed him, when referring to Plame.

*shadow government*
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. That's a shocker.....who is his father? n/t
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. If you go to
the infamous Scooter Libby Defense Trust's web site, you can click on the list of his supporters. Tucker's dad is indeed one -- something that one could mention within 30 seconds of beginning to debate him.

It actually is an interesting site. I google it every so often, although there hasn't been much new on it in months. But it does give a pretty clear picture who is invested in Scooter's defense. And that is one reason I think it is extremely important that the progressive "grass roots" donate to the Wilson Fund .... even if it is $5, it is very important to give.

(I just got another note from them today. I can't stress enough how important it is to invest in the civil case!)
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. k&r
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Armitage sounds like half mercenary
involved in shady dealings that people don't want revealed.



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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
32. "Hubris" is an apt title
in one respect, at least.

While grand conspiracies don't usually feature a single Professor Moriarty or Dr. Evil type of all-knowing central actor, the people who instigate what develop into these conspiracies arrogantly ignore laws that they are not (contrary to their illusions) above, whether they are laws of the nation, laws of human nature, or even laws of nature itself.

To be brief, I believe that Cheney and Rumsfeld together constitute an axis of unprecedented knowledge of the inner workings of modern American government. Not government as the embodiment of the highest ideals of the founders, but government as sausage factory, where meat is ground up to churn out product, and people are beaten up on picket lines and in back alleys as the power structure of the sausage company is established.

They assumed that this knowledge and experience was sufficient that whatever enterprises they launched, given their deeply established control of the various arms of the government, would proceed without any meaningful opposition (meaningful, in this case, being defined by any powers that had not already been effectively marginalized).

But as experienced and as savvy at bureaucratic infighting as they may have become over decades of work in government and high-level corporate positions, and as successfully as they may have established their cohorts in all positions with possible oversight, they still have managed to make the same mistakes that Napoleon, Hitler, and other would-be tyrants made. They thought that as "masters" of the system, they were above it. But it's never worked that way.

Anyone who's never read Kipling's "The Man Who Would Be King", or seen the excellent film based on it starring Sean Connery and Michael Caine, is missing an excellent parable that illustrates this principle. Cheney and Rumsfeld would be king; they will be denied.


We may hold these truths to be self-evident, but Cheney are Rumsfeld don't. They picked the wrong fight.
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Communism_not_USA Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. The Gestapo called it - Nacht und Nebel
Night and Fog
People just disappeared when the Gestapo got them in the middle of the night. No one knew anything about them where they went or what happened to them. Well they never returned.

So a person can be grabbed(arrested) in a foreign country and transported to a secret prison for a secret tribunal and the officials of said foreign country are not advised of the operation. The evidence against them is "classified" and will not be shown to the accused.

How long until the program is modified or enhanced to include domestic terrorists(eco-terrorists) then "narco-terrorists" (street dealers) PETA, abortion protesters, war protesters(enemy sympathizers), those who believe in private property rights or parental rights or any rights at all.

Everyone is in danger. Only a few words need to be modified at a time.

George Orwell understood "Peace is War" and Newspeak.

But George is gone and no one is standing up against it.
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-06-06 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
34. BRAVO !! H20man!!
We've missed you, and hope you are well now! Also, ya gotta "tend those roses", as well as cultivating this garden of followers known as DU !! Feed and water well, and pull out a few weeds now and then. Surprising what the Mother gives you in return, ain't it??:applause: :yourock:
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
38. One last kick for the morning crowd.
:kick:
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brentblack Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
52. Out numbered I am sure
But I never thought this was a big issue and now that the players have revealed themselves, it seems less of a big deal.

Still wonder why Fitzgerald spent all that time and money when he KNEW the leak.


BushCO is insane and dangerous. They have started the world down a path of destruction.
However, from what I see and read (granted from MSM) there was no BushCo leak or coverup. Seems like a time to cut bait.

Bring on the inevitable flames that come out for dissent.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. Your opinion
isn't significant enough to cause anything other than a giggle.
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brentblack Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. At least someone got a laugh...
Good day to you.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Thank you.
And a good day to you.
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #56
68. One of the best replies
I've ever read on DU.



Excellent OP, HO Man!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Thank you.
My response to the poor fellow came from the heart.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
54. Yes, the pieces are all part of a much larger criminal conspiracy
So, I still have to ask, why isn't the facts and proof about PNAC being brought out publicly, in a large way?

Wouldn't that go a ways towards putting some of the pieces together?
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
63. SPIES!


Analyst Charged With Passing Iran Info: Franklin Turned Self InTo FBI
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1444053
Fieth resigns from Pentagon today
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1186412
Former CIA official looks to leak the truth
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=886884
New Israeli spy probe has a 30-year history, insiders say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=852863
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161
FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725
Money from Iran Fuels Iraq Insurgency -Rumsfeld
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=810129
Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249
FBI probes DOD office (spy probe widens)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784155
F.B.I said to reach official suspected of passing secrets ....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786361
Analyst Who Is Target of Probe Went to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784792
Knight Ridder:FBI espionage probe goes beyond Israeli allegations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784274
Pentagon Analyst Was Cooperating When Israel Spy Case Became Public
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=786505
Iran-Contra II? Fresh scrutiny on rogue Pentagon operation -Josh Marshall
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=784906
AIPAC's Overt and Covert Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788267
UK Express: (Perle) Faces (FBI) Quiz Over Links to Israeli Spy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=785131
Israel Says It Has No Need to Spy on U.S.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=787437
F.B.I. Is Said to Brief Pentagon Bosses on Spy Case; Charges Are Possible
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=788936
LAT: FBI Questions Israeli Lobbyists (AIPAC) in Spying Probe ((Gilon mentioned)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=789576
FBI briefs Wolfowitz on Israeli spy claim
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=790076
F.B.I. Interviews 2 Suspected of Passing Secrets to Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=792950
FBI seizes computer from AIPAC offices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=791564
Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432
Leak Probe More Than 2 Years Old (AIPAC)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795905
AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332
Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029
FBI Informed White House of AIPAC Probe Two Years Ago
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797181
Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060
Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167
Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817
Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333
LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631
Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031
Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678
A Web Of Intrigue Inside the Israel espionage investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803022
Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035
Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161
FBI probes possible Pentagon leak to Iraqi exiles
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=805885
Reporters' Files Subpoenaed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=815381
Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017


Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017

Behind the AIPAC Probe, Neocons Seen Battling Rivals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x807922

War of words over espionage probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x806736

Dual Loyalties The Bush Neocons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x806736

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249

Israeli spy nest in the U.S. - Ashcroft says: ’Don’t arrest them!’
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802249

Ashcroft Nixes Arrests in Israeli Spy Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796806

Secrets: Classified Info: Springing a Leak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x803017

FBI probes Jewish sway on Bush government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=802725

Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon Cons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=804314

Israel's Mole Inside the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=783161

Pro-Israel Lobby Has Strong VoiceAIPAC Is Embroiled in Investigation
of Pe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=803035

Defense, Cheney Iran Specialists Questioned in (Israeli Spy) Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801031

Leak Inquiry Includes Iran Experts in Administration (WaPo)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=801678

White House Learned of Spy Probe in 2001
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=800454

LAT: Israel Has Long Spied on US,Say Officials(but CIA, Mossad "intimate")
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798631

Wider FBI Probe Of Pentagon Leaks Includes Chalabi - WaPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798333

Serving Two Flags The Bush Neo-Cons and Israel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=799167

Israeli political advisor may have received U.S. secrets
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795817

Pentagon leaks connected to battle over Iran policy (this is big!)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=797846

Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=796889

Alleged Pentagon Leak to Iraqi Is Under Investigation
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=798060

Spy probe scans neo-cons' Israel ties (long article from Asia Times)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794029

AIPAC hires lawyers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794332

IAEA: No proof of secret Iran plan
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=793930

WP: Spy Probe Expands/Linked to NSC Probe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795385

Pentagon Office in Spying Case Was Focus of Iran Debate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=795432

U.S. Spy Probe Focuses on Two Lobbyists -Guardian
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=794973


ADDINGTON'S ROLE IN CHENEY'S OFFICE DRAWS FRESH ATTENTION

That's David (Geneva Convention is "Quaint") Addington


http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2005/1030nj1.htm

By Murray Waas and Paul Singer

10-30-05

David Addington, counsel to Vice President Cheney, has been named to succeed Scooter Libby as Cheney's chief of staff. Addington's own role in the Plame matter is emerging just as the vice president selects him for the top job.

...

Further, Addington played a leading role in 2004 on behalf of the Bush administration when it refused to give the Senate Intelligence Committee documents from Libby's office on the alleged misuse of intelligence information regarding Iraq. Because Addington may be in line to succeed Libby, the Intelligence Committee-White House battle over the documents has sparked new interest on Capitol Hill.

....

Rockefeller's call for an inquiry by the Intelligence Committee captured the attention of many senators Friday, but did not attract wider press attention. It also surprised senators because Rockefeller, who is a political moderate, was often praised by the Republican chairman of the committee, Pat Roberts of Kansas, and other Republicans for serving as vice chairman in a bipartisan matter. Indeed, some other Democratic senators on the committee have privately complained that Rockefeller had not pressed Republicans hard enough on some oversight issues.

....

During confirmation hearings of Alberto Gonzales to be attorney general, it was revealed that Addington helped draft the White House memo that concluded that the Geneva Convention against torture did not apply to prisoners captured in the war on terror. The memo declared that terrorism "renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions."

....

helped out that torture guy Gonzales too (who maybe under indictment also)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1262353&mesg_id=1262353



http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article323785.ece

By Andrew Buncombe in Washington
Published: 01 November 2005
The Independent


Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the senior White House official charged over the CIA leak affair, is to appear in court this week, as investigators continue their inquiries into the activities of President George Bush's senior political adviser, Karl Rove.

An official said yesterday that Mr Libby would appear in a federal court in Washington on Thursday morning, where he would be formally charged, or arraigned. He faces five charges ­ two of lying to investigators, two of lying to a grand jury and one of obstructing justice ­ in relation to the leaking of the identity of a covert CIA operative, Valerie Plame.

Mr Libby, 55, has made it clear he will plead not guilty. He was replaced yesterday by David Addington, a longtime aide to Vice-President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser. Mr Addington was among the authors of a White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects.

Over the weekend Mr Libby's lawyers said they would argue that, as a busy White House official, he could not be expected to recollect the full details of every conversation he had with reporters. They will deny that he deliberately intended to lie to either investigators or members of the grand jury about what he had told reporters about Ms Plame.


http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/31/cheney-promotes

Cheney Promotes Individuals Named In Indictment

"Both Addington and Hannah are named in the indictment. Hannah was intimately involved in the strategy of leaking Plame’s identity. From the indictment:

13. Shortly after publication of the article in The New Republic, LIBBY spoke by telephone with his then Principal Deputy and discussed the article. That official asked LIBBY whether information about Wilson’s trip could be shared with the press to rebut the allegations that the Vice President had sent Wilson. LIBBY responded that there would be complications at the CIA in disclosing that information publicly, and that he could not discuss the matter on a non-secure telephone line.

Addington provided legal counsel to Libby in helping to divulge Plame’s identity.

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3128addington_memo.html
Addington, a "swell " guy...
Cheney's Lawyer Addington
Penned Key Torture Memo
by Jeffrey Steinberg

David Addington, the General Counsel to Vice President Dick Cheney, was the actual author of one of the now-infamous White House "torture memos" that claimed for President Bush the authority to violate the Geneva Conventions on the Treatment of Prisoners of War, in the so-called "war on terrorism." The immediate result of this Hitlerian document was the scenes of inhuman torture at the Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad, and the as-yet untold tales of similar torture at other secret prison locations in Afghanistan, at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and in other countries around the world.



http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-3158

David S. Addington actively participated in the following events:
January 21, 2002 Torture in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere

White House lawyers visit Guantanamo Bay. On the flight back, Alberto Gonzales agrees with David Addington that all Guantanamo detainees should be designated eligible for trial by military commission under the president's November 13 Military Order (see January 20, 2002).
People and organizations involved: Alberto R. Gonzales, David S. Addington

'Passive' participant in the following events:
Torture, rendition, and other abuses against captives in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere - November 13, 2001 - President Bush issues a 3- ...


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5223042
Page 4 - ("Under Secretary of State")International Security Affairs John Bolton or Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Marc Grossman?

Page 4 - ("A senior officer of the CIA") ?

Page 5 ("An aide to the VP") John Hannah - Senior Nation Security Aide or David Wurmser - Middle East Advisor?

Page 5 (CIA briefer") ?

Page 6 ("Libby's then Pincipal Deputy") John Hannah

Page 7 ("WH Press Secretary") Ari Fleicher?

Page 7 ("Counsel to the VP') David Addington?

Page 7 ("Ass't to the VP for Public Affairs") Catherine Martin (she was his press secretary)?

Page 7 ("MSNBC Reporter") Chris Matthews

Page 8 ("Official A") Karl Rove?

Page 8 (Other Officials) Plane trip from Norfolk

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/28/addington-involved-in-leak-scandal/

Scooter Libby’s replacement as chief of staff to the Vice President is reportedly a man named David Addington. He was formerly Cheney’s counsel, a position he held since 2001. According to the indictment, it appears that Addington was involved in the leak:

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

Was Addington aware that he was facilitating alleged criminal conduct?

Unitary Executive theory

http://alternet.org/blogs/themix/#27514

Scooter Libby's insta-replacement, David Addington, believes in the Unitary Executive theory. If you guessed that this meant the power of one CEO who decides liberty and justice for all, you wouldn't be far off. It's not too far from King of Everything, really.

Here's a description of how it works by a legal theorist from Michigan Law School:

Several scholars have recently rearticulated the "unitary executive theory" of Article II , arguing that Article II vests the power to execute federal law solely in the President of the United States. Unitarians do not maintain that the President must personally execute all laws; Congress may establish an administrative bureaucracy and identify particular officials to assist the President in carrying out legislatively prescribed tasks. But, unitarians argue, such officials must always remain subject to the President's direction.

According to Raw Story, Bush has made at least 95 decisions since 2001 using this unitary logic, including many of his ill-fated choices relating to torture and the Geneva Conventions. And who was the author of the infamous "torture memo?"

David Addington.

http://sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=David_S._Addington

Primary Role in Bush Admin's POW Policies

....

Former attorney general William P. Barr suggested to Gonzales's staff early on that those captured on the battlefield go before military tribunals instead of civil courts. But Ashcroft and Michael Chertoff, his deputy for the criminal division, both adamantly opposed the plan, along with military lawyers at the Pentagon. The result was that the process moved slowly."

"Addington was the first to suggest that the issue be taken away from the Prosper group and that a presidential order be drafted authorizing the tribunals that he, Gonzales and Timothy E. Flanigan, then a principal deputy to Gonzales, supported. It was intended for circulation among a much smaller group of like-minded officials. Berenson, Flanigan and Addington helped write the draft, and on Nov. 6, 2001, Gonzales's office secured an opinion from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel that the contemplated military tribunals would be legal."


"The task of summarizing the competing points of view in a draft letter to the president was seized initially by Addington. A memo he wrote and signed with Gonzales's name -- and knowledge -- was circulated to various departments, several sources said. A version of this draft, dated Jan. 25, 2002, was subsequently leaked. It included the eye-catching assertion that a 'new paradigm' of a war on terrorism 'renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners." More...

http://whateveralready.blogspot.com/2005/10/i-have-brand-new-national-journal.html

by Murray Wass
Thursday, October 27, 2005

....

Cheney has tried to increase executive power with a series of bold actions -- some so audacious that even conservatives on the Supreme Court sympathetic to Cheney's view have rejected them as overreaching. The vice president's point man in this is longtime aide David Addington, who serves as Cheney's top lawyer.

Where there has been controversy over the past four years, there has often been Addington. He was a principal author of the White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects. He was a prime advocate of arguments supporting the holding of terrorism suspects without access to courts.

Addington also led the fight with Congress and environmentalists over access to information about corporations that advised the White House on energy policy. He was instrumental in the series of fights with the Sept. 11 commission and its requests for information...

....

Even in a White House known for its dedication to conservative philosophy, Addington is known as an ideologue, an adherent of an obscure philosophy called the unitary executive theory that favors an extraordinarily powerful president.

....

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/10/libby_resigns_b.php

Libby Resigns, But Was His Replacement Involved in the Leak?

Posted by Joe Rospars on October 28, 2005 at 04:34 PM


The crack team over at Think Progress has the scoop on Libby's replacement in the White House:

Scooter Libby’s replacement as chief of staff to the Vice President is reportedly a man named David Addington. He was formerly Cheney’s counsel, a position he held since 2001. According to the indictment, it appears that Addington was involved in the leak:

18. Also on or about July 8, 2003, LIBBY met with the Counsel to the Vice President in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s Office. During their brief conversation, LIBBY asked the Counsel to the Vice President, in sum and substance, what paperwork there would be at the CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip.

Was Addington aware that he was facilitating alleged criminal conduct?

You'll remember that Republican leader Tom DeLay handed his leadership post to another ethically-challenged Republican, Roy Blunt.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22665-2004Oct10.html

In Cheney's Shadow, Counsel Pushes the Conservative Cause
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer Monday, October 11, 2004; Page A21

The vice president's point man in this is longtime aide David Addington, who serves as Cheney's top lawyer....

Where there has been controversy over the past four years, there has often been Addington. He was a principal author of the White House memo justifying torture of terrorism suspects. He was a prime advocate of arguments supporting the holding of terrorism suspects without access to courts.

Addington also led the fight with Congress and environmentalists over access to information about corporations that advised the White House on energy policy. He was instrumental in the series of fights with the Sept. 11 commission and its requests for information. And he was a main backer of the nomination of Pentagon lawyer William J. Haynes II for a seat on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit. Haynes's confirmation has been a source of huge friction on Capitol Hill.

Colleagues say Addington stands out for his devotion to secrecy in an administration noted for its confidentiality. He declined to be interviewed or photographed for this article, and he did not respond to a list of specific points made in the article.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. You are
SO GOOD!

Thank you.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Thanks and don't forget what Pat Buchanan said
On The Mclaughlin Group August 5, 2005
The Israeli spy scandel was going to metastasize, seriously



ESPIONAGE - DOD employees A & B Foreign Officals 1, 2, & 3

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4348269
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-07-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Mr. Buchanan
said early on that the neocon-AIPAC spy scandal should be given to Mr. Fitzgerald, because it was another part of the Plame scandal.
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Catrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #67
73. H2O Man, I don't know if you were aware of this, but
Edited on Fri Sep-08-06 12:03 AM by Catrina
about a week ago, I heard on the news that the motion to dismiss the Pentagon Spy Trial was refused. I do remember that many people thought the case might be dismissed, and I only heard that one report.

The trial was supposed to begin in April of this year, but was delayed as a result of this motion. So, it is good news that the motion was dismissed. I don't have a link.

I too believe that the AIPAC case may be even more serious for this administration than the Plame case as it involves treason.

Another news item that went almost unnoticed regarding this same case was that Condoleeza Rice was called as a witness early this Summer. She is in this position because of the claim made by the two accused men, that they were not spying as top WH officials gave them all the information they had, freely. Rice obviously is accused of being one of those officials. Her attornies tried to get the subpoena quashed. Hadley is also on the list.

And both she and Hadley are also implicated in the Forged Niger documents case.

Your essay is excellent, thank you for posting it. Also, Emptywheel over at the Last Hurrah, has announced she will be writing a book including all of her findings in the Plame case. The book will be published by Firedoglake, the first in their plans to publish books from now on.

I think you ought to write a book and couldn't help thinking that you had named Cheney as the main leaker, at least two years ago, I believe.

Larry Johnson speculated that the recent attempts to smear Fitzgerald, and the release of the info about Armitage, in an attempt to minimize the whole investigation, are a sign that something is happening in the case. He thinks that Fitzgerald may be getting ready to indict Cheney. But again, he is just speculating. I would not want to be Fitzgerald. The weigh of this country is on his shoulders.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #73
74. That was very important
news. Judge Ellis had actually filed the decision on August 9. It can be found here:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/jud/rosen080906.pdf#search=%22Case%201%3A05-cr-00225-TSE%20Document%20337%22

There have been a series of interesting articles found in a variety of media sources, although it is worth noting the the major corporate media tends to ignore the case. As John Lennon was want to say, "A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words." Here we have a intelligence unit operating under non-official cover within the United States, working for a foreign country, and coordinating efforts with the VP's OSP unit. The case involves espionage, where a person in a sensitive intelligence position in the federal government passes classified information to two citizens (one who has previously enjoyed a top security status), and they then pass the information to a foreign intelligence officer. When caught, they claim the case is an Amendment 1 "freedom of the press" issue. The three people arrested were not journalists. They were not whistle-blowers. They were involved in espionage, and attempting to use US classified information to promote the agenda of a foreign nation.

Regarding the book: I saw the one person was writing one, and I think that is great. There should be more books on the Plame scandal, and I certainly look forward to getting a copy of any and all that are published.

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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #73
75. Thanks
:hi:
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
76. so why isn't Fitzgerald interested in Armitage?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-08-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. I think that
it is safe to assume that Mr. Fitzgerald has been very interested in Mr. Armitage. For example, one of the things that Mr. Fitzgerald has focused on is the State memo that was passed around on AF1 when President Bush traveled to Africa. One point of concern was how the memo ended up in Colin Powell's hands on AF1. Mr. Armitage knew the answer to that.

In terms of potential charges for criminal activities, there is one thing that has always stood out to me. And that is among all of the administration officials who were interviewed by the FBI and/or Mr. Fitzgerald, only two were confident enough to appear without legal counsel: Mr. Armitage and Mr. Powell.
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